BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'

Subject: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 08:46 AM

I didn't even know he was on! I know most people here don't watch the show, so here are links to a couple of articles on last night's appearance by Kerry:

'Only the jester speaks the truth' Toronto Star

'Jokesters now the go-to guys for US candidates' The Globe and Mail

'If he only had a heart John Kerry tanks on The Daily Show' - Slate

'Your moment of Dem Kerry faces Stewart' - Chicago Sun Times

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: Nerd
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:08 AM

Sorry, GUEST, last night was Ed Gillespie. Kerry was the previous night! Since you didn't see it, and don't know when it was on, and apparently don't really know anything about it, I wonder why you are so anxious to talk about it--or rather, to dump links on us?

I did see it, and thought Kerry did just fine. I will agree with the Canadian newspapers you sourced that the US media is a shambles and that going on a comedy show is therefore preferable to going on a news show. But given that that is the case, why should we trust Slate or the Sun-Times, the two stories above that are critical of Kerry? They are, ironically, doing the exact kind of horse-race reporting the Canadians complain of: the stories are not about whether the ridiculous swift-boat accusations are true, but about whether Kerry "Scored" or "Tanked" in his efforts to refute them.

It's like Rob Corddry said on the same show: "I'm a journalist. It's not my job to seek the truth, it's my job to repeat what one guy said, and what the other guy said."

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:13 AM

I've never quite understood this business where people will watch something themselves, and than wait until they have read what the pundits say about it before deciding what they think about it themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: Nerd
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:16 AM

Yes, but GUEST didn't even know it had been on until he read the pundits!

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:38 AM

Unfortunately for US, the Daily Show while not a source of news, is one of the best sources of insight into what's happening to the media. It's been purchased, it's been co-opted, it's been marginalized, hence it is now trivialized.

Hopefully it will be outsourced and we'll start learning what's really happening out there. We already get the BBC piped in twicet a day.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 04:32 PM

the Daily show played some footage of the not so swift & not so truthful veterans from a previous campaign standing next to Kerry and praising his actions under fire. same guy who said Kerry Lied.

the whole point is that the Republicans know that smear campaigns work. According to studies of previous elections, a large number of people - those that are undecided dont think about issues, they think about how a candidate looks, or soundbytes or the 'gotcha' factor.

in the 92 election, 80% of people polled knew that GHW Bush's dogs name was Millie, but only 15% knew where Clinton and Bush stood on capital punishment (they were both for).

or minor points or incidents are blown into big issues, like GHW Bush didnt like Broccoli, or Gerald Ford in the 76 election trying to eat a tamale without removing the corn husk. (people of mexican background would have deduced that since Ford was unaware of how to eat a tamale, issues involving them would be a low priorities.)
when asked about the election afterwards Ford said 'always peal your tamales'

equally GHWBush's surprise on learning that all supermarket checkouts had laser scanners in a supermarket tour - something that had been around for a decade.

the list goes on, in Canada in the 72 election the image of R. Stanfield fumbling a football (even though hed caught a bunch of them without a problem but thats the one that the press used) was the image that helped him lose that election to Trudeau.

the fact is a lot of people dont really think much about the real issues, and the Republican campaign managers know it, and use it to great effect.

the did it to Mcain, accusing him of being unpatriotic -
and to Max Clelland who lost 3 limbs in Vietnam (Ran a picture of him next to Saddam Hussein) ironic that no one in the Whitehouse now
(excepting Powell) actually served in Combat. (Bush was awol, and Cheney had other priorities) and theres a great clip of Rumsfeld running up to Saddam in the 80s and pumping his hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 05:45 PM

Hey Nerd, dude you need to chill. No need to go casting aspersions like that.

Sorry I got the night wrong. I didn't know Kerry had been on at all, until I started seeing the stories on Google News this morning. I posted four links (chosen on the basis of how fast they loaded for me), two positive, two less than positive, for balance.

I just thought people might be interested in reading something about it is all, especially if they, like me, didn't even have the appearance on their radar. I don't have any opinion of how he did, of course, because I didn't see his performance.

What, is it a crime I did this Nerd? Or are maybe you being a little overly sensitive?

But I did find the differences of what the Canadian articles focused on vs what the US articles focused on, to be interesting.


The US articles I read (and I read a few more than I posted links to) all made a big to do about the fact that this was Kerry's first interview given to "the press" (are these people crazy?) since the Swift Boat debacle began.

First, I thought it quite revealing that US journalists are referring to a tv comedy show that parodies the news, to be "the press". Scary, ain't it?

Second, I LOVED the fact that Kerry stuck it to the press by going on the Daily Show instead of one of the punditry shows, or granting an interview with Brokaw, Rather, or Jennings, or doing the 60 Minutes thing. I think the message got through loud and clear, that this is about how seriously Kerry takes this whole non-issue obsessions with his Vietnam service being debated by "serious" news people.

I was also very surprised to see that no one had mentioned his appearance here in the forum, considering the level of interest in all these things.

Or are there just that few Daily Show watchers at Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 07:24 PM

I watch the Daily Show daily (when it's not in reruns). Jon Stewart and his team of writers come up with some of the best political satire happening these days. (Truth be told, they also come up with some inane, juvenile dumb jokes -- but hey, they have to cater to their demographic.)

I was pleasantly surprised by Kerry's demeanor. He appeared loose, good-humored, and likable -- not at all the dour stick-in-the-mud I saw on the campaign stump. If he can be like that at the debates (there will be debates, won't there?) I have hope yet.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:24 PM

"Or are there just that few Daily Show watchers at Mudcat?"

NOYFB

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: bflat
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 12:17 AM

Tonight, Bil Clinton was the special guest. He aptly pointed out the deceit of the Bush campaign strategy and the need to respond quickly to the lies. Jon Stewart is winning the young viewing audience and one can only hope that it translates into the same demographic going to the polls and voting.

Ellen

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 10:03 AM

Yeah, the Bill Clinton show was a rerun from two weeks ago. BC did great, and it was an excellent show to run again because it had Jon Stewart's dissection of the Swift Boat ads in it, too!

GUEST, it's not a crime. But to just give a bunch of links on something you have no opinion on is a little bit odd. Seems like something someone with an axe to grind would do.

There is a well-known GUEST here who mostly posts Kerry-bashing threads. Since your two "positive" articles were positive about The Daily Show, but neutral on Kerry, and your two "negative" links were negative about Kerry's performance, I was assuming you were that GUEST.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 01:31 PM

I am the guest you refer to Nerd, but I think the way you are portraying me is inaccurate and at times, wrong.

People start threads for a lot of legitimate reasons. My legit reason for starting the thread was to see if anyone here had seen the program, and to hear what they thought about it.

I posted links to articles about the show as a way to get people interested in the thread, and also in hopes of learning how Mudcat viewers opinions may or may not have differed from the opinions expressed in the article links.

Finally Nerd, I consider you to be one of the most extreme Kerry supporters in this forum, on a par with the most extreme Bush supporters here, like DougR. It should come as no surprise to anyone that Nader and Cobb supporters are going to disagree with both the Kerry and Bush supporters. That's pretty much a given, I think.

Now, correcting me if I'm wrong Nerd, but you seem to think there is something inherently wrong with Nader and Cobb supporters being critical of Kerry and saying so here in the forum. Am I right about that? I ask, because in your last post, you seem to me to be suggesting that everything I say that even remotely is related to Kerry, must be challenged by you because I'm not supporting Kerry.

That is at least the dynamic between you and I, as if feels from my end. It seems like you feel you must challenge any and every criticism made of Kerry by me, which is not only silly, but very tiresome for people reading the threads.

IMO, you have taken on the mantle of an extremist Kerry crusader here, Nerd. It isn't necessary to be that way. If you are this supportive of Kerry, then you should allow discussion critical discussion of him as a candidate, without blasting every point someone makes that disagrees with your opinions.

Nobody needs to take it to that minute a level in these discussions, Nerd. Perhaps it would if you took a couple of deep breaths, and repeated several times "it is only an internet chat forum".

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 01:52 PM

"Now, correcting me if I'm wrong Nerd, but you seem to think there is something inherently wrong with Nader and Cobb supporters being critical of Kerry and saying so here in the forum."

Okay, I'll correct you. You're wrong.

If you wish to criticize Kerry for policies and positions, go ahead. If I disagree with you, I will say so, but I have never questioned your right to post.

If you wish to merely insinuate, by posting nothing but links to sites lamely criticizing Kerry's horse-race performance, while claiming to be seeking "balance," I will point out what you are doing, because it is underhanded. It's disingenuous of you to claim to be interested in "balance," when as I pointed out you post two articles neutral about Kerry's appearance and two that think Kerry flopped. That's balance a la Fox News. And in any case you've clearly never been interested in balance--you have started innumerable threads that merely bash Kerry.

I also think it's counter-productive for Nader and Cobb supporters to repeat the ridiculous accusations made by Swift Boat liars for lies. I think it's counterproductive for people who claim to be progressive to use kooky lies dreamed up by right-wing attack dogs, even though the so-called progressives pretty much know these things are lies. I can't be sure if you have done this, of course, because you hide behind the anonymous GUEST moniker. But certainly you work in concert with other anonymous GUESTs who do this, either intentionally or unwittingly.

By the way, one of the Catters I most respect, Bobert, is on your side of this issue. But he does not play the games you play.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 02:06 PM

By the way, GUEST, lest you persist in your delusion that I am a pro-Kerry extremist, here is a response I made to Bobert today on another thread:

Bobert,

As you know, I agree with you on much of this, and wish the Dem nomination had turned out differently. I just believe in the "burning house" theory at the moment, and see voting for Kerry as a form of triage.

I was, in fact, an enthusiastic Dean supporter, and Bobert and I found common ground on that back when Dean was in the race. Kucinich's ideals were closest to my own, but his views of what he could accomplish were, in my opinion, unrealistic.

(Dean's appearance on the Daily Show was not as good as Kerry's, though!)

I think Nader was either delusional or lying, for saying that there was no difference between Bush and Gore, and again for saying that he expects to draw off more of Bush's voters than Kerry's. I also think he would be absolutely stonewalled by Congress and thus become the least effective president in many years. He has many admirable qualities, but I don't want him to be president and he has no chance in any case.

I don't know the first thing about Cobb. Why don't you start a thread about how great he is...or did I miss it?

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: GUEST,Blackcatter
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 02:57 PM

equally GHWBush's surprise on learning that all supermarket checkouts had laser scanners in a supermarket tour - something that had been around for a decade.

Guess what: It was I who taught the president that little gem of a fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 03:04 PM

Is anyone making book on the November election? Curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 09:21 AM

Nerd, you and I only have a problem with one thing, and that is what seems like a hatred so intense of Nader, that it blinds you to true facts.

In reality, there just issn't much difference between Republicans and Democrats, except the lip service that gets paid to one constituency or another by both parties.

Last night on NOW with Bill Moyers, they devoted the program to the political corruption of the entire system by corporate capitalists. The whole shootin' match. Everybody. Your most beloved Democrats, DougR's most beloved Republicans. Corrupt. Corrupt. Corrupt. Unprecedented political corruption is what everybody was talking about.

Al Gore would have responded to 9/11 in exactly the same way. The tax cut wouldn't have been as big, but he would have cut taxes because both Democrats and Republicans do that now for their corporado buddies, and as their only true means of buying votes. Al Gore, like John Kerry, like Bush/Cheney, would have put an energy package on the table that would have left the Arctic Wildlife Refuge alone, but given handouts to energy companies, mining companies, etc. just the same as the Republicans.

The reality is, the system is now so corrupt, the main means of the government doing business is within the parallel system of corruption--lobbyists and media, not through any sort of legitimate means of doing the people's business.

The other thing is Nerd, I don't come unhinged when someone legitimately criticizes Nader, and there are grounds for legitmate criticism. I happen to think he would make an excellent president, because he is uncorruptable. No one can buy his influence, or pay him to shut up about government corruption. Which is why the Democrats, who unlike the Republicans, work very hard to cultivate the image of uncorrupt, honest politicians, hate him. They hate him not because he lost Gore the election, but because he was so successful in exposing the Democrats for the frauds they are. He exposed the fraud of Gore being an environmentalist, by showing how cozy he was with all his energy industry buddies, that sort of thing.

To me, the Dems hatred of Nader has always been rooted in self-loathing. Unlike the Republicans, who have no qualms whatsoever about John Q. Voter seeing their part in the corruption of the political system, the Democrats care. They still want John Q. Voter that they are the great and powerful Oz, and don't want us looking behind the curtain at the little huckster from Kansas.

And it is plain as day to me, that Democrats, nearly to a person, are perfectly content to play along with the delusions and deceptions of their party, and pretend like they aren't every bit as despicable and corrupt as their Republican brethren. But they are Nerd. Even Paul Wellstone was playing along by the time he was killed. Russ Feingold plays along. Dennis Kucinich plays along. They all play along for the good of the party that feeds them. Some of them just have more modest appetites than the gluttons, but they are all feeding at the political corruption trough just the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: Nerd
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 06:07 PM

GUEST, you are deluded.

1) If I had an intense hatred of Nader, would I say he has many admirable qualities? In reality, I don't hate him at all. I just don't want him to be president. I don't hate lots of people, but don't want them to be president, including my whole family and most of my friends! By the way, many of Nader's employees over the years have found him exploitative, vindictive, and dishonest. But he IS, perhaps, the closest to incorruptible in the race. Unfortunately, incorruptible and ineffective wouldn't help much right now, with a Republican congress in power.

2) Do you really think we would be at war with Iraq if Gore were president? There is no evidence at all of this, and I doubt it very deeply.

3) from your post above it is clear that YOU are the one with intense, blinding hatred. You call nearly EVERY democrat AND republican "despicable and corrupt." That's hatred. I said about Nader "he has many admirable qualities, but I don't want him to be president." That is NOT hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry on 'The Daily Show'
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 07:33 PM

I too think Nader can't be bought. But I also think he can't win. We need Bush gone, and Kerry can make that happen. Nader can't.

Thta is the good news AND the bad news.

Ding, ding. Round Two.