BS: October Surprise?

Subject: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:33 PM

MSNBC's news scroll today stated the Gov't feels it is close to capturing Osama Bin Laden. If that happens or there is another terrorist attack before the election, it will ensure a Bush victory.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Teresa
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:36 PM

I hope not.   won't change my vote.

T

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:43 PM

Much as I would love to see Osama crushed, I would dearly love to see Kerry in the White House when it happens...

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:45 PM

The newsperson, Judy Woodruff, is quoted in the current issue of AARP as saying: Tell me what will happen in Iraq between now and November and I'll tell you who will win the election".

OTH, if bin Laden is produced before the election, I hope, hope, HOPE, that this nation's people are able to see it for what it is and repudiate manipulation and deceit. The impact of the freed hostages following Reagan's win should work only once.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 04:01 PM

Ah. And then the hunt will begin for a new Osama. I wonder who the lucky candidate will be?

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Teresa
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 04:31 PM

Likely "terrorist" candidats: you, me, and our next-door-neighbors. :>

T

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 04:52 PM

More at:: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=3&u=/ap/20040904/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_bin_laden_1

"The United States and its allies have moved closer to capturing Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) in the last two months, a top U.S. counterterrorism official said in a television interview broadcast Saturday.

"If he has a watch, he should be looking at it because the clock is ticking. He will be caught," Joseph Cofer Black, the U.S. State Department coordinator for counterterrorism, told private Geo television network.

"Asked if concrete progress had been made during the last two months — when Pakistan has arrested dozens of terror suspects including some key al-Qaida operatives — Black said, "Yes, I would say this."

"Black, who briefed a group of Pakistani journalists after talks with officials here Friday, said he could not predict exactly when bin Laden and other top al-Qaida fugitives would be nabbed.

"What I tell people, I would be surprised but not necessarily shocked if we wake up tomorrow and he's been caught along with all his lieutenants. That can happen because of the programs and infrastructure in place," he told Geo."

Not that I believe that the word has gone out from the admnistration for various people to give out little teasers to prepare the American electorate for the "capture" of Usama bin Laden. Of course not.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 05:08 PM

damn! I thought this was going to be a thread about the Mets figuring out a way to sneak back into the pennant race!

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 05:28 PM

Saddam Hussein had a few look-alikes. I wonder if Osama bi . . . naw. That would be underhanded. Fooling the electorate for a few days in late October. No, that wouldn't . . . naw.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 05:39 PM

Ebbie, you said, OTH, if bin Laden is produced before the election, I hope, hope, HOPE, that this nation's people are able to see it for what it is and repudiate manipulation and deceit. The impact of the freed hostages following Reagan's win should work only once.

That was a joke, right?

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 07:28 PM

Sorry,Ron :>)

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 08:05 PM

Almost three years and how many millions spent tracking this guy down???? It is a tribute to the inefficiency of US Intelligence that he has been allowed to stay free for so long. Bush et al should apologize rather than celebrate when they finally nab him...unless of course he is found with all those well hidden weapons of mass destruction. Then all will be forgiven.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 08:09 PM

I'm stickin' with my October 4th prediction...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 08:24 PM

Oh bullshit. Much as I would like to see Shrub out, I don't really think it's going to happen. Be nice, tho.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Nerd
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 11:25 PM

Ron,

the Red Sox dragged their asses back from oblivion to within 2 1/2 games of the Yanks, so anything's possible. Hang in there!

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 06:25 PM

I don't understand this fixation on Saddam or bin Laden. There are increasing amounts of terrorist leaders out there who are now become college educated insurrectionists and kids with Kalashnikovs.

The only October surprise that I can think of is that Bush is still in office.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 05:24 PM

Osama bin Laden was probably killed back in the attack on Tora Bora. His body has been kept in cryo until he can be thawed out and "found" among some rubble next month. I think Bobert is very close on his prediction.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 05:26 PM

O, what a tangled web we weave . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 08:00 PM

Maybe Osama was on the grassy knoll and we can wrap up that conspiriacy as well. Cool.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 10:44 PM

They are softening us up already. Osama will be paraded in front of cameras on October 20. (Sorry Bobert, we'ver all got attention spans too damn short to remember a whole month back).

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 10:50 AM

Maybe the October suprise is that we find WMD's in Syria.   Don't discount that conspiracy theory.   So many theory's, so little minds.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 12:46 PM

Bobert shooting with pellets:

I'm staking out October 2nd. Any later and it will appear too obvious and any sooner it will not have that lasting effect that Bush would like to get out of the event.
...
Official Rules: Once a date has been taken it is taken. (Bobert)

I'm stickin' with my October 4th prediction... (Bobert)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 05:28 PM

Awhile back, I was commenting on the one of the ways that Kerry is going to get his ass kicked in October, was through the testimony of the POWs at the Hanoi Hilton, when they were tortured using Kerry's Senate testimony. Now the group is moving into action, like silent battleships moving up the Potomac. It's in filming now with several vignettes in the can, and, so far, a total of 19 POWs testifying on a 26 minute special to be aired the last week in October. And Kerry and his people can do nothing but watch his chances slip away.

My friend, Jim Warner, in the last piece currently on the website, said he has been waiting years for Kerry's apology, and frankly expected it at the beginning of his campaign. Since he has not, and buoyed by the success of the Swift Boat people, he and his fellow POWs are going to take Kerry out, as he says, "clean at the stacking swivel".

And the Swift Boats won't go away. Nat Hentoff, the extremely liberal columnist, who writes the Land of the Free column, about civil liberties and ACLU actions, is now demanding Kerry's Viet Nam medical records and the diaries that his campaign lied about when they said they were the property of the biographer. And at the local VA hospital, I spotted a bumper sticker which was simply a large pink Band-Aid with a Purple Heart on it.

Sorry Bobert, West By God is going for Bush; I can feel it in the air.

If you want a real October Surprise, you may want to check out the following web site: http://stolenhonor.com/documentary/samples.asp

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 05:30 PM

January 21

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 05:50 PM

Claymore, I see that this is this new documentary that is being done by Carlton Sherwood.   Are you familiar with Sherwoods background?   Do you know about his book "Inquisition"?

Sherwood gained a Pulitzer for a piece he did exposing corruption at the Vatican.   His book "Inquisition" was largely trashed because it was a very one-sided opinion of Rev. Moon & the Unification Church. Sherwood's investigating was called into question as he found no fault with the Church & Moon.   The book was originally published by a company called Andromeda. The company was reportedly founded by former Reagan National Security Council official Roger Fontaine.

I'm wondering what connections Sherwood may have with his new venture?

By the way, I suppose that everyone who received a purple heart or was wounded in battle really felt good about those band-aids. On one side of your mouth you blame anti-war protestors for hurting our soldiers in Vietnam, but out of the other side of your mouth you are calling into question any Vet who was wounded because of that bandaid. Shame on you!

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:19 PM

www.catch.com/comments/34140_0_17_0_M/ - 32k

or google

Catch -- catch.com -- Look behind the curtain


Something is rotten . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:27 PM

How hard can it be to find a 6 and a half foot tall terrorist in flowing white robes, towing around a dialysis machine behind him everywhere he goes. Just follow the extension cord.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 06:34 PM

Ron,

I can see your confusion, but after reading all of the book and most of the editorial and reportage of Kerry's Vietnam exploits, I think I can say as a Marine Corps Infantry Platoon Commander at a place called Con Tien during the exact same period that Kerry was there, that;
1. there was tremendous medal inflation in the Navy during that period, and
2. no Marine Corps officer I have known, or will know, would ever stoop to Kerry's level in accepting (much less putting in for) the Purple Hearts Kerry received.

This is why Kerry will never reveal the medical records he used to put in for these ficticious wounds.

By the way, although I received several shapnel wounds in the Nam, I never put in for a Purple Heart, yet now I am considered 60% disabled for those same wounds from the VA. Unlike many in this site, I know of what I speak.

More importantly, I am not alone... others long silent, see Kerry's mendacity, and are gathering to respond... watch the skies and wait...

As for the producer, I know nothing about him nor care; just hear the former POWs speak and watch Kerry try to respond...

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: emilyrain
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 06:59 PM

claymore, you deserve a purple heart. why didn't you ask for one? is it possible to "put in" for it this late in the game?

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 07:32 PM

Claymore, I can understand where you are drawing your conclusions from even if I will never know what it was like. As for Kerry's wounds, I am wondering how you can definitively say they were ficticious since you weren't there. Are you saying the government lied when they gave him the Purple Heart? The commanding officers lied for him?

Regardless, I am guessing that Bush's lies about his service must really have you pissed off. While you were serving our country and suffering wounds, he was sitting at home using his father's influence to put him in a cushy spot where he might suffer a wound from a malfunctioning flip-top on a beer can. That must drive you crazy!   Imagine this lazy goldbrick getting off so easy while you and others were fighting and dieing for a government that gave you little support. And then this bastard lies and lies about his Air National Guard Service and here you are with a disability and he gets off like some big hero.   You must have been real angry when he landed that plane (yet right) on the flight deck and said "mission accomplished".   You must have been torn up inside when you realized that men and women were still fighting in another unjust war and they would suffer the same indiginity as you did. It is no wonder that so many military commanders have come out in support of Kerry.

I'm really sorry Claymore. I will do everything I can to help you get this idiot out of the White House.   It is what every American should be doing to honor the service of people like you. Bush can wipe his ass with the flag and expect us to salute it. Don't worry Claymore, we will get him out of office and send him back to Texas.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 07:48 PM

I have read many other of your postings, and I do not for a sceond doubt that you received wounds in combat. You 'talk and sound' like a vet, and that 'talk and sound' is just plain different. So, please understand where this question is coming from, OK?

I can understand--given your stated perceptions of Kerry--why you would not vote for him. But why--given Bush's 'war record'--would you even consider voting for HIM?

I just don't get it.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 08:01 PM

Why does Claymore still want to vote for Bush? Because Bush is Republican! :-) Simple. It's a religious act in the USA to vote for the party you have always believed is the GOOD party, pretty much regardless of who is leading it. Only about 10% of the registered voters are very likely to switch alliegances in an election. It is those 10% whom the politicians frantically court with their barrage of character attacks, misrepresentations, false promises, platitudes, and outright lies.

They can count on the rest of the faithful sheep in their particular flock to do exactly what they have always done.

In a system where you only need a fraction over 50% of the vote to win...you don't have to persuade too many people to cross over to the other side. Such a system is rife with dishonestly, manipulation, and shameful behaviour on the campaign trail...because that's what seems to work best.

Very sad. It's a pandering to people's worst instincts.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 08:47 PM

Briefly!!   Since sloganeering is now the coin of the realm

Swift Boats/Kerry vs GWB.   He vas dere sharlie---and you vas not.

You (W) were following a career---not even available by today's reports---for the imminent attack on Alabama.   

Nuff said---Frank Rich in the NY Times had it right---how did a person who served now has to defend himself against a malinger (paraphrase there). De ja vue with dear old dad and Dukakis. Slam them and smear them.

As to wounds---a nonsensical issue---did W hurt his wrist in his National Guard training while opening the door to the plane that was supposed to defend Alabama? If they could have found him I bet he wouuld have deserved the Purple Heart. This issue is truly obfuscation---or in plain Republican and W terms---crap.

Ya'all that is what our down home boy says in Crawford---where much of his time is spent to show us his macho. Gotta cut that shrub.




Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 02:01 AM

Interesting story at http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040909/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_national_guard&cid=544&ncid=716

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

"WASHINGTON - The White House released memos Wednesday night saying that George W. Bush was suspended from flying fighter jets for failing to meet standards of the Texas Air National Guard.

"On this date I ordered that 1st Lt. Bush be suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination ... as ordered," states an Aug. 1, 1972, memo by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian.

"In a memo a year later that uses only last names, Killian points to turmoil among Bush's superiors over how to evaluate his performance because there was no "feedback" from Guard officials in Alabama in 1972 and 1973 where Bush had been largely inactive."

"Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush," Killian wrote on Aug. 18, 1973. "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job — Harris gave me a message today from Grp (Bush's unit) regarding Bush's OETR (officer evaluation) and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any feedback from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate."

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:09 PM

Ron, LH et al. It may suprise you but I almost always split my vote. This year while I will vote for Bush with a clean and easy conscience, I will be voting for a Democrat for WV Governor, have voted for both Dem Senators, and a Repub Representative.

Many months ago, in another thread, I gave my reasons for backing Bush in Iraq, and long before that, gave my thoughts (even under Clinton and long before Kerry) about the lack of necessity for a military background to be a good Commander in Chief.

I was stationed in Israel during the last Gulf War and have long believed that we should have finished the job then; though not necessarily on a march to Bagdahd, but assisting the Kurds, and Marsh Arabs when they revolted. Bush is doing exactly what is the most prudent thing to do in my view, and so far he has been right. Not in the view of the sixteen words about WMD (which I wrote my Masters thesis about in 1998, and the inherent problems of the China Wall between the CIA, FBI and yes, the IRS for information sharing).

Knock on wood, we have suceeded beyound my wildest dreams, with no new terrorist attacks in the US in the past three years. Yes, they go after our Marines in Iraq, but the men know to expect it, and are capable of a ready armed defense or offense. Who would of thought that we could prevent attacks for three years, when some of the talking heads were giving us three months, for another attack.

I will close with a simple thesis. If I gave a small town three million dollars to build a defense system to prevent me from commiting terrorist acts within the town, they could not do it. Back when I was a Police officer, I used to train my Dept's SWAT team, and would regularly defeat them during practice sessions, with such things as a simple mouse trap bent to swing in on the primer of a shotgun shell (with pellets removed)in a capped 1/2 inch pipe, and a knowledge of their mostly likely tactics. That was practice, but a real device could take them off at the ankles. You could not do it.

But if you take that same three million dollars and put out part of it as a reward, build an intelligence organization, and then send hard men to hunt me down, I'm too busy to try and double back to try anything. Look at Osama, who was regularly giving interviews to Arab TV stations. We haven't heard from him in months, if in fact he is still alive. You take your best game (even if it is not perfect) to the other guy.

And while I'm now out of the action, one of my bunk mates in OCS is now the Assistant Commandant of the Corps, and when he tells me the troops have high morale, know why they are there, and can do the job, I believe him. The previous Commandant, Chuck Krulack, whose Dad was the famous General "Brute" Krulack of Inchon fame, (and was the Company Cmdr of our "brother" Company in the Nam, wrote two studies, which are famous in the Corps. One was called the "Stategic Corporal"; the idea to train the lower ranked Marines to act immediately in independant small operations. The other was called the "Three Block War"; the idea that future actions may often involve, quick vicious fights in built-up areas, with smaller forces. This was at least ten years ago, (before "Black Hawk Down") and sums up the current situation fairly well. I'm sure you could Google this and read for yourself. You might be suprised by the scholarship.

It seems rather common in the MudCat for certain people to assume that those who advocate for Bush are mindless, ignorant, followers of Republican politics. I have long stated my oposition to several Republican ideals, believeing in a woman's right to choose and the assualt weapons ban. And I'm willing to match my academic credentials with any member of the MudCat.

I'm voting for Bush, not against Kerry...

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:27 PM

"...no new terrorist attacks in the US in the past three years."

Bush in the White House suits Al Qaida down to the ground - the world situation now, including the situation in Iraq, is far more favourable for that variety of fanaticism then it was back in 2001.

Terrorist attacks in the USA over the last few years could well have damaged Bush's position. Terrorist attacks at this point would probably help him win the election.

If there isn't an Al Qaida spectacular in the USA over the next few weeks it will be astonishing.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:43 PM

One thing I'm not clear abnouit in all this sruff about Purple Hearts. In the American army, do people actually nominate themselves for medals, rather than leave that to others?

If so, is this normnal practice in any other army?

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:43 PM

One thing I'm not clear about in all this stuff about Purple Hearts. In the American army, do people actually nominate themselves for medals, rather than leave that to others?

If so, is this normal practice in any other army?

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:43 PM

EXACTLY,Cluin! They can hone in on minute areas with satellites. Why can't they find a 7 foot man in a white dress against a desert background? Is it more convenient to keep a boogeyman around to scare the gullible American public?

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:58 PM

Perhaps because he's sitting in a comfortable house in some luxurious suburb, dressed like a businessman on holiday.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 08:41 PM

at one point when Bush was slipping in the polls he gave the order to move up the capture of Osama by a couple months.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:02 PM

That's cool, Claymore. I readily understand your line of reasoning, though I don't share your confidence in George Bush or his policy decisions. I don't particularly have confidence in Kerry either. I regard both of those parties as utterly without scruples. As a Canadian I will just have to sit back and watch what Americans decide for themselves on this one. I am agreeably pleased to hear that you often split the ticket when you vote. That's a good sign.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 03:21 AM

Claymore,

It is not your scholarship that is in question. It is the wisdom of voting for Bush that is in question. Military credentials for a C in C are not necessary. IMO, the Presidency was meant to be a job for civilians, anyway.

Two of my university profs were military people. One was an historian (Lt. Col., Royal Marines, Ret'd) and he taught The History of Human Conflict. The other was a Lt. Commander, RCN, and still on the active reserve list at that time. He taught Shakespeare to both undergrads and grad students. Military people are not 'stupid'. That is a given to me.

However, I do not think it is anything Bush did that has prevented another terrorist attack in the USA. I do think that is a matter of time, and time only. And there is, as you are aware, very little that can be done to 'harden' a whole country, particularly one as large as the US. IMO, Washington does not understand its enemy. Their plan spans a long period of time, and whether it takes days, weeks, months or years, time is meaningless to Allah. They can afford to wait. The US cannot. But the terrorists were not in Iraq.

I agree with you that this should have been handled by Stormin' Norman years ago. I am also aware that soldiers hate taking the same ground twice. But times have changed. The money connections in Washington have changed. The players have changed. And the geopolitical friendships have changed.

The error the US made was in receiving no UN sanction. It was a grim picture seeing the US, UK, Spain and Bulgaria trying to present a 'Coalition of the Willing' on international TV. It was transparent and sad.

The economic punishment that my country received as a result of refusing to participate because UN sanction for the war was not in place has done serious damage to the friendship that once existed between the governments of our countries. We supported the operations in the Gulf War, but not this one. We paid a heavy price for that refusal. Canada has been a staunch NATO member and the existence of NORAD speaks of our ability and willingness to be participants in what we deem to be 'just' wars. We just didn't think this one is.

It may or may not be known to you, but the cruise missile was tested in Canada's north (in fact, one crashed in Alberta) because the climate and terrain is much like that of the old USSR. Despite a protest from many Canadians, our government helped with the testing because we saw the need for that type of deterrence. What is happening in Irac is not deterrence.

The bin Laden family leaving the US without being questioned; the less-that-clear explanation of the events surrounding 9/11; the MONEY being made by big business in and from this war; the jobs that have been lost in your country as a result of Bush's policies, both foreign and domestic--these are things your countrymen/women are wondering about.

The attempt to bully my country into following the US lead--such is not the action of a friend or a friendly nation. Canada has provided good troops for the Afghanistan war, including some special warfare troops. There is never mention of that when the US talks about what IT is doing. So tell me, are we only allies when it is convenient for the US? Tell me that. And tell me why, when I read books on the Gulf War, Canada is a minor footnote, despite providing CAP and ships for the Persian Gulf. No, my friend, piss on that.

The US is pursuing its own agenda and interests in Iraq. It has little to do with your national security or the establishment of a democracy in Iraq. IMO, it has to do with military positioning to secure oil in the surrounding areas.

Additionally, you have treated your old friend to the north like dirt. We are not an appendage of your country, and neither is the rest of the world. The day will come when you invade us, and we will be defeated. And we know that. Because we know that is what the United States does to those friends who don't do as they are told. And what it does to its enemies is precisely the same thing.

I realize that you don't set your country's foreign policy. Speaking as someone who goes to bed at night wondering if there will be American tanks in our streets the next morning, I wonder why people like you think we should appreciate Bush? He scares the shit outta the world because he is following the advice of people who do NOT know what the hell they are doing, and the sickness is that they are doing it to make big businesses richer (and themselves along with them).

We know the US is on the verge of bankruptcy. What happens, Claymore, when COUNTRIES go bankrupt? From whom do they borrow? Who has that kind of money? NO ONE. Extrapolate: to prevent that, one would establish a New World Order, and isn't that what we are seeing? A NWO in the making? Are we not looking at the Fourth Reich? And do you think that civilization will go gentle into that good night? Voting Bush out would demonstrate to the world that at least the American people still care about Democracy. IMO, that is what is at issue and what is at stake in this election. Many of us around the world DO wonder, and I think the results of the November vote will determine much for a long time to come: much about everything in the world, and much about our fates and our futures--or if indeed we will have futures that leave us free to pursue our lives in peace.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Argus
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 05:24 AM

I have just seen the result of a poll on ITV [UK], will terrorism be defeated, 80% say no.
I would say the Brits don`t so much dislike Bush as hate him, Blair is also falling fast in the popularity polls.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 05:16 PM

It will be another terrorist attack. It is in Al Quaeda's best interest to keep Bush in office.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 05:25 PM

Guest, Claymore.

Very well put. A fine post that makes a lot of sense.

Get ready for some big pissing and moaning here the day after the election.

I kind of can't wait to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 10:35 PM

Martin, Martin, Martin: You won't see it, nor will you hear the moaning. Kerry is going to win.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 11:32 PM

Brucie, he probably meant that Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Hannity will be pissing and moaning the day after.   I look forward to hearing it too!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 05:47 PM

You really think all the counting will be sorted out by the day after the election this time?

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:38 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 07:13 PM

Argus:

Seems to me Terrorism will not be defeated because it's a tactic, not an army, a nation, or even a political belief.

Will propaganda be defeated? Will spreading rumors? Will theft?

clint

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 06:38 PM

WMD's can be found in the US. Do you think that Bush might invade? :)

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:03 PM

There was an odd discussion between two men on Fox Channel this morning. They were talking about last week's big peculiar cloud on the North Korean/China border that has only now been publicly reported.

The host of the show - and I don't know who it is; I'm housesitting and watching my friend's television - said something like, 'Maybe this is something like the October Surprise the Democrats keep talking about? Maybe North Korea perceives this action as somehow helping the Democrats get into office?'

Curiouser and curiouser.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:13 PM

Huh? What Democrat ordered a mushroom cloud? And how does this help or jurt someone in the elections? I goota watch more FOX, I'm missin' sumthin'.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:50 PM

Exactly. But I don't advise watching Fox too often- it does weird things to one's perceptions. Alice in Wonderland stuff.

I also saw part of 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth'. Bizarre.

I'm better off reading text rather than listening to the talking heads.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:52 PM

GROK, et al.

I read your posts and have to say that as a Canadian, you can rest easy about either tanks in Canada or the US going bankrupt. Our Gross National Product (GNP) is so large that we pay for our entire military forces in 22 days and paid for the Iraq expenditures to date in another 20 some days. And please understand that all of that is not lost money, going for salaries to be spent in the States, companies that provide goods and services (like the hated Haliburton (sp?)) and sub contractors on everything from food, to the equally hated military-industrial complex. It's funny to watch the legislators, fight like hell to prevent the military spending bills, and then fight like hell to get the money spent in their districts.

As we now know about the false papers being posted on CBS as proof of Bush not deserving his discharge, I think that Pat Caddell, the famous Democratic pollster had it right when he said that if any Democrat is invoved with these papers, Kerry will lose the election.

We may have already had our October Suprise a little early this year...

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 12:23 AM

"Our Gross National Product (GNP) is so large that we pay for our entire military forces in 22 days and paid for the Iraq expenditures to date in another 20 some days."

I don't understand your calculation. How do we apply 42 days worth of GNP to those expenses? I don't believe the GNP goes into a federal fund, does it? Won't there be a lot of capitalists bitching if it does? Even if it's only for six weeks?

clint

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:42 PM

While you all have been waiting for the October surprise, the September surprise happens right under your eyes without you realising that this is only another sinister coup.

I speak about the hurricane(s).

Before the last election the defending chancellor trailed by twenty points two months before the election. Then came the big flood and he showed a display of strength and determination (we say: a disaster is always the hour of the executive) and won by the skin of his teeth. This was so surprising (and against all predictions and polls) that we have joked about which German land will have to be flooded next time to secure his reelection.

Carl Rove has learned from that. And while you all wait for Osama (with clever hints by the government) they have staged a 'natural' disaster to show the president at his best.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM

You mean that's why Bush's lot have been so keen to stymie any efforts to avert global warming?

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:44 AM

Yes, the Bilderberg group needs the money to do secret research how to control the weather.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 02:49 PM

HAARP

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 10:42 AM

refresh

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Songwronger
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 11:21 PM

Searched for October Surprise threads and found 4-5. Decided to refresh this one after 6 years.

The October Surprise is something the candidates for U.S. president cook up to help their chances at the last minute before the election in November. We could see some late-game mudslinging along those lines, but I'm more concerned about what might happen in Israel.

Netanyahu's up for re-election in October, and he's even less popular than Obama, if that's possible. He'll lose, and then he'll face charges for various crimes he's committed as Prime Minister. His only chance of avoiding prison is to remain PM. So I think we might see Israel do something silly like attack Iran really, really soon.

An interesting wrinkle--the Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Martin Dempsey, recently met with Netanyahu and told him America wouldn't back Israel's aggression. Can you imagine how Netanyahu felt? He's got to attack Iran to avoid jail, but what good would an attack do if retalliation killed him like a rat in his bunker? Netanyahu was accustomed to pushing around Dempsey's prececessor, Richard Myers, but Dempsey has a backbone.

And then an attempt was made on Dempsey's life. At Bagram Air Force Base, in Afghanistan. After he met with Netanyahu. Bagram AFB is the most secure real estate in the world. The news media is claiming that Dempsey's plane was bombed by the Taliban, but do you know how impossible that would be? They didn't catch anyone, so that would be two separate operations--first to get INTO the base for the attack, then to get OUT of the base when the friggin' Chairman of the Joint Chief's plane just got blown up! And they didn't catch anyone. But the news sources are saying the Taliban did it.

My money's on Netanyahu. He wants someone he can manipulate in that position.

Maybe you've all seen the stories about the "bunker busters" the U.S. sold to Israel. 30,000 pound bombs that can penetrate and explode far underground. And we're being told that Iran has nuclear facilities underground. The bunker busters are a cover story. Israel can only conquer Iran if they use tactical nukes, but that would leave radiation signatures. Enter the news media reporting that the bunker busters did their job and blew up nuclear facilities deep underground (See, we TOLD you they had dangerous nuclear plants), and that's the reason for the radiation in the war zone.

So when Dempsey said no to Netanyahu, he also said not to Israel's weasly plan to nuke Iran.

At any rate, Netanyahu going insane in October is a distinct possibility.

Anyone want to speculate on what our October Surprise might be this year?

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 11:44 PM

Yeah. I'm worried about something along the same general line. I regard Netanyahu as the single craziest and most dangerous national leader in the world at the present time, and I think he's capable of anything. Your assertion about the use of tactical nukes connected with the supposed use of the bunker busting bombs is an angle that I had not considered, though.

If such action is taken, it may very well end in a Third World War by way of Russian and/or Chinese intervention and USA intervention. If so, I doubt it will happen in one day, but through a series of escalating actions and reactions by the various world powers and regional powers who have interests in that area.

The Government of Canada, by the way, mysteriously suspended diplomatic relations with Iran on the weekend, and I regard that as a danger sign, because absolutely nothing has occurred recently to cause such a punitive move by Canada. The Iranians haven't done anything new lately that would prompt Canada to suspend relations. Because of that, I think the people at the top of the Canadian government know something they're not telling the public about. In other words, they are expecting a war to break out very soon between Iran and Israel...or Iran and several western countries. I think the present prime minister of Canada, Conservative Stephen Harper, would back Israel to the hilt even if they exterminated every last person in Iran and drank toasts to the slaughter in human blood. I think he's probably acting ahead of time and suspending diplomatic relations with Iran in order to prepare for something he already knows is coming.

And...I hope I'm wrong about that. If I'm not, the world is heading for a very, very bad time.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 01:07 AM

I hope too that you are wrong about that, Little Hawk. In the uncertainty we're already living in,the escalation of wars is something we don't need.

I just thought of the Israel's 6-day War. I don't remember if we regarded that as worrisome for world stability. On the other hand, WWI started with a fairly minor assassination and escalated from there.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 08:17 AM

Benghazi

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 09:15 AM

Romney caught in a motel room doing what the preacher-man told him not to do???

Nah...

But that would qualify as an October Surprise...

I think the worse of the October Surprises was in '68 when Humphrey was running on stopping the bombing in Vietnam and 3 weeks before the election LBJ threw Humphrey under the bus bu ordering that the bombing be stopped therefore taking one of HHH's sticks away from him...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 09:31 AM

Carl Bernstein, (Co-author of Watergate's "All The President's Men"), just published his book, titled, "The Price of Politics" in which he has interviewed the President himself. In the book, you will find MUCH of what myself and Little Hawk, and a few others have been telling you all along!
Also, in the book, Obama admits to Carl Bernstein, that his economic policies have been "a failure" (his words, not mine).
The only real question is...Was this deliberate?

Time for BOTH sides of the 'political partisan game' participants to wake up, forget the crap you've been fed, and look deeper, and see the real controllers of the divisions, and ask, "To what end were we misled by the people we thought we trusted?"...and "Why?"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 10:15 AM

But I'm gonna go on record of predictin' another 9-11 event in just over a year becuase the Repubs will be in desperate need for one and if they are goina stand any chance of holding the White House, after this dismal 8 years of theivery and lies, they can't do it without another 9/11... Keep in mind that the week before 9/11 Bush had the lowest approval rating of any president since such polls have been taken....

So that's my prediction... Sad... but I'm sticken by it...

Bobert

"Because of these ups and downs, Bush's 49% approval average for his presidency will rank him in the middle of the pack (7th of 11) of post-World War II presidents. His average to-date of 49.4% is similar to Richard Nixon's 49.1% but slightly better than Harry Truman's and Jimmy Carter's historical lows below 46%."

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 10:25 AM

Hey Sawzaw...ever noticed how the last few elections are always 51/49.. or within a close margin..always making it look close?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 10:31 AM

I heard Bernstein being interviewed on CBS morning show at length and that is not accurate, GfinS... Obama never said he considered his economic policies a "failure" and Bernstein did not use that word...

That's your wishing that Obama had said that... What Obama has consistently said is that the economy isn't where we want it... Duh... I mean, Helen Keller can see that... But, Obama has not put called his policies a failure...

Guess again...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 10:45 AM

" after this dismal 8 years of theivery and lies,"

????????

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Songwronger
Date: 13 Sep 12 - 11:44 PM

What I find especially odd about this campaign is how Romney's being held accountable for all kinds of things, while Obama gets a pass once again. Obama's got a record to defend now, but no one's asking him to defend it. Incumbents are always on the defensive, and Obama has nothing to show but failure and economic depression, so why isn't he being questioned about that?

Obama's always playing the race card, so I think we may see race riots leading to the shutdown of some polling places on election day, followed by Obama v Romney in another bullshit Supreme Court case. I forget which of the swing states are the largest, but which one has a city with the largest black population? That's where Obomber and Bill Ayers might start a race riot in order to disrupt the electoral process.

Oh, but before then we'll learn all kinds of crap about Romney. Unfortunately that's what people will focus on, instead of Obama's record.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 12:22 AM

Wrongwronger, I'm sorry, but I live in this country, a swing state no less and in all of the media I have seen, the President's record on unemployment has been discussed several times a week for the past 3 and half years. Every time he is interviewed in a one on one or a press conference, he is asked about the economy. Where the hell do you live? What news are you looking at?

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: GUEST,Ebbie, housesitting
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 01:34 AM

Evidently there are nervous people today. At the grocery tonight, the 'box boy', maybe 17 years old, told me darkly "We're standing on the brink of WWIII right now." We chatted for a moment; I reminded him that this country has had many, many crises as bad or worse and we're still here. He seemed grateful to think of it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: gnu
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 07:56 PM

The boxboy is right. The economic indicators point to it. When countries start stocking grain instead of selling it, box boys notice.

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Sep 12 - 08:27 PM

Bogus Stats from the Master Leftwing Bloggersite bogus stats monger:

"Keep in mind that the week before 9/11 Bush had the lowest approval rating of any president since such polls have been taken"

It was 51%

Obama is now at 49%

Approval Lows:

Truman 22% 1952 Feb 9-14

Nixon 24% 1974 Aug 2-5

Bush II 25% 2008 Oct 3-10

Carter 28% 1979 Jun 29-Jul 2

Bush I 29% 1992 Jul 31

As usual the highly educated blowhard Bobert does not know what he is talking about and can't back up any of his "facts".

Link

Link

(((((((((((((((((yawn)))))))))))))))

Subject: RE: BS: October Surprise?
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Sep 12 - 08:32 PM

It looks as if the Middle East will be the "October Surprise." Looks as if it's already under way, too, with the phony "uprisings" against a video. Obama is going to be crippled now, like Jimmy Carter was. Carter and Obama both did major damage to the U.S. economy, and then they exited after one term. A good article on this is below:

http://www.voltairenet.org/October-surprise-to-Carterize

Also, look at what Obama said this week. "Let's face it. You know, a mixed kid from Hawaii born to a single mom is not likely to become president of the United States...."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/obama-credits-education-with-boosting-mixed-kid-and-little-black-girl-to-white-hous

Obama is the most scripted president in history. The Teleprompter President. This line was inserted into his speech intentionally. Why?

My guess would be blackmail by Israel. Netayahu is desperate and can't wait until after the U.S. elections for American cooperation on an Iran attack. Romney would help but Obama seems reluctant. I would bet that Israeli intelligence has threatened Obama with making his birth records public. Those records would probably reveal something other than the official record. And Obama's trying to take the edge off the moment with this crap. His mom was married when he was born, according to the official record, and yet here he is saying he's a fucking bastard. He's such a vain prick, he wouldn't call himself a bastard unless he HAD to. He's being blackmailed.