amplifying a melodeon

Subject: amplifying a melodeon
From: Fiddlin' Sid
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 02:34 PM

Any advice on how to amplify a melodeon ? I invested in a microvox pickup (not cheap) and it seems unsatisfactory I'm afraid - loads of feedback and not much in the way of volume. Anyone got any tips on alternative ways of amplifying the beast ?

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: PennyBlack
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 03:26 PM

sorry we have the same problem as well.. still looking but will let you know if we have any joy - there is a midi melodian on the market maybe that'll be the way to go, in the studio we use 2xAKG 1000s and have used them on stage with some success as long as you sit still!

Pete

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: Gin Crewe
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:31 PM

Yes, we have exactly the same problem and we haven't solved it either. The microvox does seem to settle down once we get going but it needs resetting when we start up at the beginning of the evening no matter what we do in originally setting up the band PA.

It does seem to be connected to not sitting still, too! I wouldn't have thought melodeon players COULD sit still.

My other half mentions special melodeon microvoxes, which we don't actually use ourselves- they are, he assures me, shaped like long bars. Perhaps you have those already?

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:58 PM

Try a PZM microphone for the left hand. Pressure zone microphones are very cheap but have a sound quality that is way beyond their price. They are great for instruments that move!! They must be mounted on a flat surface to work properly.

Put the microphone on a piece of half inch thick plywood about 8 ins square.

Put it on the piece of timber, on a boom stand, with the flat side of the timber facing the arc that the melodeons left side swings through.

It looks a bit weird on stage but you could decorate the plywood
with perhaps your bands name.

A preamp helps further.

I'd be interested to know if this works for you. PM me if you try it.

MofA

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 05:29 PM

Try putting the output from the microvox through an equaliser.

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: CharleyR
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 06:29 PM

The box player in my band uses two AKG gooseneck mics (C416L), attached to the top of the box with velcro. It wasn't cheap - 100 quid a mic plus 30 quid for the preamp, but it does a good job. He got them from Rees Wesson.

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:18 PM

A guy who records lots of accordions has a trick - made out of perspex - with a surface mic in it - it is a right angled (the mic sits in this corner) triangular thing with the long side open and facing towards the player.

It is about 2-3 feet along the pair of equal sides and sits about 3 ft or 3'6"" high - being transparent - it really isn't all that noticeable.

He built it cause he could never get many players to stand in the right place for a normal mic, and this things has a big coverage area and is fairly 'long throw' as well. He get the player to stand near the 'voice microphone' and positions that so the other gadget works best - then balances the sound from the two...

Robin

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 04:04 AM

The old cajun and zydeco way, in the early days of amplification in Louisiana, was to take the mic out of a telephone and attach it inside the melodeon. This gave a curious sound, very evocative of zydeco dance halls. If you happen to want that sound, that's how to get it...mount a mic inside.
   Otherwise, follow advice above and ask Rees Wesson, who will sort you out on all questions associated with melodeons.

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: treewind
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 08:26 AM

I once used a cheap mic from an old domestic tape recorder inside the bellows of my Hohner pokerwork and it worked brilliantly for years. When an internal wire broke I found nothing to replace it that made a satisfactory sound. I used a Microvox M400 for a long time on my Oakwood. Then when testing it at home recently (looking for the source of a suspect intermittent connection in the mic or battery box) I tried comparing it with a stand mounted SM57 and found the latter gave a much smoother sound.

I now use a S/H Beyer M201 on a short boom stand for the RH and a microvox mic for the LH. For convenience the two are combined in a home-built customised battery box.

Don't go out of your way to look for an M201 - I use it because I happen to have one and it's hypercardiod response makes it very feedback-proof. I'm sure the SM57 would be OK, actually.

Frankly I'm surprised the Microvox mic caused feedback problems and low levels - the only similar story I've heard was from Alan Huges (Mr. Microvox himself) about a customer who had a similar complaint and added that they couldn't figure out how to mount the mic on the stand either *** .... Alan gave him his money back and didn't say another word. Some customers you simply don't need!

I should add that feedback/foldback is not too much of a problem for me because the band is basically acoustic - no drums, no need for very loud on-stage sound levels.

Anahata

*** for the uninitiated, Microvox accordion/melodeon mics attach to the grille on the instrument by velcro pads. You can't get closer to the sound source!

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 11:30 AM

I know it will be difficult for anyone born later than 1950 to believethis, but before vast stadium concerts became the norm, people used to sing and play with unamplified voices and unamplified instruments, using the natural room acoustic - and we could hear them!

When did ears stop being sensitive instruments?

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: treewind
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 04:13 PM

I only use amplification on a melodeon in a ceilidh band.

I remember a band in the 1970s that didn't use PA for a long time - with two melodeons, anglo concertina, percussion and tuba they made a fair amount of noise unamplified. But eventually they giave up on that because they kept breaking reeds.

Anahata

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: Bernard
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:46 PM

Feedback is primarily caused by incorrect equalisation... all too often people try to use eq to make the thing 'sound right', but its main purpose is to remove the prominent frequencies causing feedback - which is why it is called 'equalisation'...

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: alison
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 09:53 PM

not a melodeon but a small Hohner piano accordion...

what I did was take the grill off and put 3 (Radio Shack / Tandy approx $30 Aus) condenser mics inside connected them up and put in a socket so I can attach the lead.

works really well, I've been told any sort of amplification on an accordion need to go through a graphic equaliser... I haven't needed to

haven't tried amplifying the bass

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: treewind
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 05:04 AM

The electret mics (RS/Tandy etc) are basically the same idea as Microvox, but I tried something like that and found that the sound levels were too high and the mics overloaded, adding a horrid screech to the louder notes. It was just about usable on the Hohner pokerwork, but the much louder Oakwood overloaded the mics nearly all the time. Microvox use capsules that can stand higher sound levels.

Your piano accordion may well be a quieter instrument, and/or you're lucky with the choice of mics.

Anahata

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: fiddler
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 03:47 AM

We use the microvox - it cna be a bit of a pig, usually when the player rests the melodeon on the knee whilst playing so you create a little circle of sound therby feeding back on itself!

Hold the box vertical(er) - also between numbers when the caller is teaching we solved this with a gutar foot pedal (on off colume etc!) we now have very few problems but I agree entirely with the comments on equalisers.

sorry probably only penny halfpenny here rather than a useful twopennce!

Andy

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: s&r
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 07:27 AM

The electret elements in CPC catalogue all seem to quote 120db as the max SPL. I would have thought that was unlikely to be overloaded - it's not far from the pain threshold.

We've had no major problems with feedback using Microvox. Our melodeon player sometimes causes problems by putting the melodeon down in front of the foldback, but you can't blame Microvox for that.

Ignoring the polar patterns of the mics, the closer a mic is to the sound source, the lower the gain needed and the less the likelihood of feedback. Microvox gets the treble elements reasonably close to the reeds.

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: treewind
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 07:46 AM

it's not far from the pain threshold.

Neither is my Oakwood if you'd care to press your ear to the grille while I play it at full chat!!!

Anahata

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 07:24 AM

PennyBlack, I have PM'd you, but in case you aren't cookied at the moment, would you be kind enough to give a few more details about the midi melodeon you alluded to above?

Many thanks

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: Schantieman
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 09:03 AM

I was born after 1950 (1957, to be precise) and I agree with Billy Weeks above. There is no need to amplify instruments if you play carefully (to balance the instuments with each other) and to an audience of a sensible size.

It seems to me that the modern desire for amplification stems from wanting to emulate the 'pop' music world which is all-electric (as far as I know, which isn't very far at all!), and to perform to enormous audiences. Neither of these is in the spirit of traditional music.

AND - I'm a melodeon player! (Well, that's something of an exaggeration these days - let's say I play the melodeon. And please note the word the. I get really annoyed by people telling me that they 'play guitar' or something!    Grrrrrr! Right I'll get off my high hobbyhorse now).

;-)

Steve

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 09:30 AM

Amplify the melodeon?

Why?

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 05:56 PM


Amplify the melodeon?

Why?

So the band can play from the stage rather than having to wander around the dance floor.

Subject: RE: amplifying a melodeon
From: GUEST,devonian bill
Date: 14 May 05 - 09:29 AM

dont get medleling with an instrument that does not need amplification, its breaking the tradition of a true player
like myself, 70 years and no problems.