BS: Do human beings really exist?

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:02 PM

If you lie down long enough, just about everything will go away... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Teresa
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 05:23 PM

I have conflicting urges ... I want to go get some exercise. Maybe if I lie down and take a nap that urge will go away. ;);)

T

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 05:15 PM

Guest, FW, I have a lot of trouble at times with that very same problem. All I can suggest is...

Find a way to quiet the mind. The mind is the source of your anxiety and negative thinking. If you don't know how to do it see if you can find someone who does know how, and learn from their example. Meditation is a good way to quiet the mind. Chanting is another good way. Physical exercise is another. Being out in nature can help. Tai Chi and martial arts can help quiet and steady the mind and body, if you find the right instructor.

Sitting quietly in a peaceful place and simply observing your breathing can help. Do this for 5, 10 or 20 minutes. Just observe the breath. Breathe slowly and deeply, but not in a forced way. Breathe away your thoughts. With each in-breath, breathe in peace. With each out-breath, breathe away the thoughts of your busy mind.

Your mind will keep bursting in with its impatience and distractions. Breathe them away. Breathe in peace. Breathe in joy.

It is your mind that believes it is "separate", and your mind is the architect of all your fears and tensions. You appear separate, but you are not.

Things that can damage your state of mind: Poor sleep habits, poor dietary habits, lack of exercise, stimulants like caffeine, depressants like alcohol, too much TV and computer time, too much focus on "the news" (which is almost all negative), too much socializing with people who are gossipy or negative in some way.

Another thing that can help: Reading books that open you up to a greater confidence in yourself and in life. Look for books with a positive message that you can relate to. Use your own best instinct to steer you in the direction of what book is best for you. There are a lot of wonderful books out there right now.

Behaviours that can help: Learn not to give in to anger or resentment or hatred against other people, but maintain an inner calm. Realize that they are doing what they're doing for a reason that seems perfectly sensible to them, even if it doesn't to you. Avoid defensive verbal reactions that lead to worse disagreements with people. When you feel such a reaction rising in you, delay expressing it and simply observe it....from a quiet place. Observe it. Wait for a bit. If you observe it carefully, instead of being hijacked by it you will usually see it fade away after a bit, and you won't need to express it. You will have conquered it. Be kind to people. Extend the kind of good feelings to them that you would like to be receiving from them.

These things can all take you closer to a relationship with a higher consciousness. The very fact that you wish you had such a relationship guarantees that you eventually will. Your desire will lead you to the goal, as do all strong desires.

Most people's problem is this: they have conflicting desires. Conflicting desires make for a lot of confusion, and make it difficult reaching any one goal. This is one of the conundrums that I wrestle with on a daily basis.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,foolish and weak
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 07:03 AM

LH

More than anything, I would genuinely like to feel a relationship with some benevolent higher consciousness, especially right now. Well, maybe I would, if it were possible. How can I love something that I'm separate from? And how can I stop being overwhelmed with my own human feelings, just a bit?

F and W

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 11:56 AM

"a surprise would be if god would come out from behind the Little Hawk mask" (Wolfgang)

Maybe he is doing just that, Wolfgang, but you just can't see it! (as CarolC suggested) :-) I believe God reveals Her/His/Itself through all people in various ways, as well as through everything else besides. It can't be any other way, because everything is built out of the omnipresent energy, force, and intention that IS God. You don't see it that way because your beliefs don't allow you to. The World you see is the World of separate objects and phenomena that you have consciously chosen to see, identify, name, and study. I can't change that, because your view of reality is your own decision, just as mine is. I think you view reality as a multiplicity of identifiable things. I view it as One conscious Unity which is manifesting as a multiplicity of identifiable things...through conscious intention, not by happenstance.

You are a useful addition to creation, Wolfgang, because you have a keen mind and many talents. I expect we will continue to disagree about the existence of God, though... :-)

This is a simply lovely thread. I am intrigued that it would threaten or offend some people. That indicates that they have a very different notion of God and His/Her "requirements" than I do. I do not fear God, I love God. God is the best friend anyone could ever possibly have. The only thing that threatens me is my own foolish weaknesses...such as laziness, addiction to Mudcat Cafe, penguin lust, and other deleterious stuff like that... :-) Those weaknesses get in the way of my spiritual and worldly progress.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,Martian Gibbon
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 11:56 AM

Noooo He said "I'm pissed so therfore I will" Be Pissed.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 11:55 AM

Noooo He said "I'm pissed so therfore I will" Be Pissed.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 10:41 AM

Nooo He said "I drink, therefore I am"!!!!! Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 10:39 AM

Sooooo, Descarte goes into a bar and the bartender asks him, "Would you like a beer?" He answers, "I think not." And he vanishes...

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,Martian Gibbon
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 06:58 AM

I've just been talking to God and he says yes, so yes they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 05:42 AM

Ahhhh - In that case then, God, yes we do exist. If you were that other one I wouldn't admit to it because you might come looking for us;-)

I don't think Martin Gibson exists though. He was created by them other religions to wreak vengence on all mudcatters of other beliefs! (Just watch...)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,matai
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 02:07 AM

Does God reaaly exist?
And what of the inhabitants of Pluto? Where are they now?

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:30 PM

It is an educated human being, assuming the postition, who should be assuming another position!!!.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:21 PM

I know that's not REALLY God posting....it's some other Supreme Being using his name...

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,archie the cockroach
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:04 PM

i would join but i don't think anyone would want a cockroach character from a forgotten book anyway. plus my inability to capitalize--i'm not agile enough--is annoying.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:51 PM

No, I am not. Just a guy who posts here.

Never said I was God.

You sound kind of frustrated, don't you, Guest, repentant mudcatter.

I have a cure for that.

start with some vaseline, find a broomstick.........................

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,repentant mudcatter
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:49 PM

Because we all know that Martin Gibson is really God.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:29 PM

Guest, God, you are a fake.

Fellow Mudcatters, you really do yourself an injustice replying to this one who is playing God in his own way.

some of you I am disappointed in.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:23 PM

That would be no surprise, a surprise would be if god would come out from behind the Little Hawk mask.

It happens every day, Wolfgang. You're just not paying attention.

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:23 PM

wolfgang said I get the impression that these ramblings of 'god' will not be read in 2000 years.

the frightening thing is - what if they are?

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: MaineDog
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:16 PM

I think so, because they feed me and play with me.
Arf!

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: freda underhill
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:13 PM

LoL!

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 01:16 PM

That would be no surprise, a surprise would be if god would come out from behind the Little Hawk mask.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 01:04 PM

Oh, Little Hawk come out from behind that God mask -- we know it is really you... :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 01:03 PM

Somehow I get the impression that these ramblings of 'god' will not be read in 2000 years.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Teresa
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:52 PM

I love the mysteries. I love not knowing, or knowing just a little; enough to ask more questions!

T

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,God
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:29 PM

Dave - I am the God of Love, Peace, and Joy. All that smiting, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth that you speak of is created by beings trapped in a separation consciousness. The belief in separation causes fear. The fear causes various forms of defensive or aggressive acting out, leading to weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, but it's all essentially illusory. It's like a stage play within which the actors and actresses have lost sight that it is just a play, and have started imagining that it is their real life! Imagine how awful that could be. Assume that one was in the play "Hamlet", for example, portraying the Prince of Denmark and completely forgot that it was just a play. That would be a pretty dreadful experience, wouldn't it?

The "God" of traditional religions that is associated with such negative situations was made up by people in their own image. They saw God as a bigger, meaner, more powerful version of themselves. That is not my nature. I do not suffer from the fear that would drive such behaviour, as I am not separate from anyone or anything. Therefore I lack nothing. Therefore I have no fear.

Steve - You could say that I have a navel if you want...or you could say that I have 6 billion or more navels, since I am intimately contained within every living being that has a navel! You could also say that I am a tree or a rainbow. All these statements would be true as far as they go, and yet would not be the whole truth about me. I am not separate from you, Steve. You can't put all of me over there somewhere, look at me and say, "Oh, look, he has a navel!" But if you were enlightened you would see me within each other human being around you, and you will note that they all have navels.

Bill D - How did I start all this? Well, I became aware of Self. You can symbolize the dawning of that awareness by saying: "And God said, 'Let there be Light!'" Light symbolizes the dawning of awareness, since awareness illuminates things and makes them clear. I became aware of Self as an undifferentiated Unity that was eternal and formless and indescribable. It was experiencable but not describable in what you would call "normal terms". It was also timeless. It embodied paradoxes such as: ever changing, yet changeless. I began to wonder, naturally, what the possibilities of my Self were, as does any sentient being.    Now, I began to wonder not only what was I, but what was I not? (This is what every being wonders!) Since I am everything it was difficult to create anything that I am not! Impossible, in fact. But...I could create worlds of illusion, and use them to test out theories about what I am and what I am not. Presto! Out of light (conscious awareness and thought) I created manifested Universes of illusion. I slowed the light down in order to form substances, energies, and objects. I then peopled those objects with extensions of my own consciousness in the form of many living beings, such as yourself or the sparrow on your lawn. I let those living beings imagine themselves to be separate so that they could act out all the possibilities inherent in those created realities. Each and every possibility. That is what you see happening all around you.

That's just what you would call a "thumbnail sketch".

It's playacting, Bill D. In a play one needs an issue or problem or challenge of some kind and characters to play out the various roles. One needs heros and villains...or strong characters and weak characters. I am quite gratified by how seriously you all take your various roles (which you have yourselves chosen and determined through your own best judgement). It is indeed a marvelous play! When it ends, you will realize that it was just a play, and you will be quite astounded, I'm sure.

Eric - You are a classic example of the pre-enlightened man. You are still using the basic means of physical survival mechanisms which any animal uses, but you have allied them with the complex mind of a human being. This works fine as far as it goes and can secure you what you think of as "a good life" in society. It just doesn't go very far on the spiritual level, that's all. Can you see, touch, smell, hear, or taste Love? No, but you can experience it. You can observe it in action. I am the Love that you experience and observe in action. I am also the very substance and defining matrix of everything that you see, touch, smell, hear, and taste...to put it on another level.

It is the fact that I am already everywhere which gives you the impression that I am nowhere.

And you know what nowhere means? It means: Now Here. I am closer to you, Eric, than you could possibly imagine at this point in your awareness.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:21 PM

not even a roller coaster....but rather a bumpy expedition, sorta like driving the entire U.S highway system, trying to find the 'best' route

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:17 PM

"...clear conclusions that can be clearly communicated."....oh, my, Amos, I have seen the results when someone says "I have a clear conclusion, and here is my clear statement of it.....now everyone pay attention!"

I prefer to dance with Heidegger and not get trampled in the fray as several others with "clear conclusions" meet in dark alleys.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:16 PM

Oh, so it's not a question, but a carousel, then? Makes sense to me. BEtter than a rollercoaster, I guess.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:11 PM

well, as the one article says, the whole point is that although "why is there something.." IS the primary question, but since we cannot answer it, it is the very process of questioning that becomes important, and how we do THAT that defines our relationship to out being....

I, personally, kinda like it that way....others seem to have a need to HAVE an answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:08 PM

Well, it depends, for starters on some definitions. For example, "something" can mean 'anything existing' in which case the question is absurd by being redundant. More often, "something" means "an object in physical space, or an object in mental representation".

Those who dance through the labyrinths described by Heidegger, and others with serious language complexes, don't advance the subject when they don't arrive at clear conclusions that can be clearly communicated.

It is possible that the real nature of awareness is actually a nothingness in terms of space, time, or other thingy structures. This makes an excellent chase for those who insist on finding it in the brain, for example.

As far as the question of the thread goes, who wants to know?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:57 AM

'Why is there something instead of nothing?' .. good question, Bill. A not-really-an-answer answer: if there was nothing, we wouldn't be able to ask the question; the question would have no meaning: indeed, it would not be able to have a meaning. This the the Anthropic Principle, sort of.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:45 AM

a little something about nothing

more about 'being' in general

the whole thing gets REALLY complicated after awhile, God...why don't you send us a clear explanation about how you really started this mess....

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 08:38 AM

Not a string feeling (except I could tie myself in knots with this). A strong feeling.

God, do you have a navel? If Adam did, then you must, obviously; but if you do, what's it for? And don't give me that stuff about holding the salt when you're in bed: if you're omnipotent you don't need to do that.

Steve
PS It didn't stop there, did it? Sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 08:34 AM

I have a string feeling that only one solipsist need have a navel, but I'm not sure I can make a good case at the moment.

How many solipsists does it take to change a lightbulb? (I don't know the answer, I'm just curious.)

If a human being falls down in the forest and there isn't a tree there to hear it, how does he (the hb) justify his/her belief that s/he's in a forest?

Is there no end to this inanity?

Steve
PS Yes: it stops here.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:03 AM

I guess we are all only limited by our own perceptions.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:01 AM

Eric, I can't see your brain, I can't hear your brain and I can't touch your brain....I certainly can't smell it!! However I do accept that it is there!
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:05 AM

Hang on a minute! YOU don't exist...I do. As a believer in the Godess I can't possibly be talking to you since you don't exist. Pass me over to the Godess please

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 04:53 AM

Nothing exists unless it is observed, touched or heard, [ possibly smelled ]


eric

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 04:40 AM

Which God are you? The God of love and peace and all that happy stuff or the God that smites amongst much weeping wailing and gnashing of teeth?

It is important to know these things before I answer (or not as the case may be) :-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:52 AM

"Ooooook?"

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Teresa
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:43 AM

To me, it doesn't seem very drab at all. :)

T

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,gillian nerdsworth
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:37 AM

because our reality is a drab, limited version of what it could be if we truly perceived life in all its vibrancy, we do not truly exist, but merely experience a diluted version of reality. that's all we can cope with.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,shycat
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:29 AM

..you got it, LH!

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Teresa
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:12 AM

Oh darn. Well, it's fun to talk about it anyway. but sometimes I could swear I experienced it when I listened to good music. :)

T

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 01:20 AM

These things do not occur at all within time as we know it...except for the part about humans creating gods and godesses. So timeless is your answer. To put it another way, it all occurs simultaneously...but then it manifests time & space Universes in which things unfold within what certainly appears to be a timeframe...if you exist as a separated consciousness that observes things from its own reference point(s) as they move in relation to it.

Since God is omnipresent (being everywhere and everywhen) there is no time or separation from anything at that level of consciousness. It's already everywhere. It's already within every moment. A being that still believes implicitly in its own separateness cannot perceive that state. It can talk about it, though, if it chooses to, in terms of discussing a theory. But that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: Teresa
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 01:08 AM

So if the 6.1 humans invented God and Goddess, and God and Goddess created them, which thing happened first, or did they both happen at the same timeless point?

T

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: GUEST,Goddess
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:52 AM

I gave birth to you all, yes, even you, God, in a moment of loneliness. I listen to the stars singing every night, and dance withthe sunlight every day.

Pride of Erin, anyone?





Mother of all Dimensions

Subject: RE: BS: Do human beings really exist?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:38 AM

Brahman is the god who, sleeping, dreams the universe. Didn't you go to Sunday School?