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BS: Gasoline prices doubled in 4 years.
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: M.Ted Date: 31 Mar 08 - 10:43 PM It is, in fact, an urban legend, Amos, though folklorists doubtless have a more precise term for it--it is a document with a bogus attribution that is in fact a compilation of bits an pieces of other sourceless pieces-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 31 Mar 08 - 10:31 PM That 'where to buy gas' is nonsense too. It was circulated 3-4 years ago. Still wrong. Two of the companies are large multinationals, producing and refining worldwide, and one has a giant refinery supplying Venezuelan and African gasoline to the U. S. Conoco Phillips An international company, production in United Arab Emirates, Europe (inc. offshore), Indonesia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Mayaysia, Timor Sea, China, Libia, Canada, etc. Chemicals produced in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, China, Korea, Canada, etc. All in addition to U. S. operations. BP (no association with Phillips) is a large UK controlled international. Production in all parts of the world. Exploration and Production in 29 countries, including the Middle East, Far East, Russia, Azerbaijan, China, Nigeria, Canada, Latin America, etc. They own ARCO. It was their refinery in Texas that burned with loss of life, and prosecution that I believe is ongoing. Sunoco, since they lost their Venezuelan production, obtains much of its oil from Canada and the North Sea. It is active in China, exploration and production. It has a large interest in the Alberta Tar Sands, and a refinery in Ontario. Sinclair operates resorts (Sun Valley is one) and hotels in addition to having limited oil production in the U. S. A small outfit in the oil business. It buys gasoline from other companies and concentrates on lubricants. Hess has a very large refinery in the Virgin Islands, refining Venezuelan and African crude; it is 7 1/2 times the size of its New Jersey refinery. It supplies Gulf Coast and East Coast U. S. from this giant refinery. It has production in northern Europe and Russia and is active in Far East and African areas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: kendall Date: 31 Mar 08 - 09:10 PM Switching to tiny cars will not be cheaper. The oil companies will simply jack up the price per gallon and their bottom line will be just as it is now. Outrageous. Southern England is proof of what I say. One big traffic jam everywhere you go. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Peace Date: 31 Mar 08 - 09:04 PM Were paying about $5.50 an Imperial gallon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 31 Mar 08 - 08:59 PM I guess the best thing I can do to make sure that I am getting my money's worth is to drive to the mountains to fill up. I can get there on half a tank of gas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Peace Date: 31 Mar 08 - 08:47 PM Good lord. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Amos Date: 31 Mar 08 - 08:44 PM Ummm. Ted, thanks for checking up on me However, first of all, they did not call the gas tips an Urban Legend. They said that the tips given might be true -- some are still being debated -- but that the value of them inn savings is only marginal. I submit your exagerration was a bit greater than mine when I said "For what it's worth here's a piece from an e-mail...". Regardless, I should have read Snopes myself, and in this case I did not. Mea culpa, tua snidea. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: GUEST,Jim Martin Date: 31 Mar 08 - 08:38 PM Only $4 a gallon, you don't appreciate how well off you are, it's $10 here (Eire) & that's cheaper than the UK! Still, I suppose the weakening $US is compensating for that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: M.Ted Date: 31 Mar 08 - 07:11 PM Check this commentary on Amos' post. Snopes' calls Gas Tips Urban Legend How can we trust what you say about Obama when you post stuff like this?;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Peace Date: 31 Mar 08 - 07:03 PM Hey, Bert. We are paying $4/gallon here. You wanna be called Nostradamus from now on? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 31 Mar 08 - 06:58 PM That is interesting Amos, but isn't crude oil a fungible commodity. If we don't buy from them, China, Europe or India will, they get the money either way. I must say I wouldn't like the idea of China becoming too cosy with the Saudis. They are already interdependent with Iran. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: bobad Date: 31 Mar 08 - 06:53 PM What Snopes has to say about the e-mail "Tips On Pumping Gas". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: EBarnacle Date: 31 Mar 08 - 06:49 PM If you want to save about 10% on your miles per gallon, try www.ugotmiles.myffi.biz The stuff works. It doesn't cut the cost of fuel, just makes it go further. [Truth time--I sponsor the site with the company and use it myself.] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Rapparee Date: 31 Mar 08 - 06:42 PM The lowest price for gasoline here is US$ 3.21.9 per US gallon as of this morning; it may be more now and I'm not being facetious. Diesel was $3.99/gallon. There is talk among truckers of a truckers strike, possibly as early as tomorrow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Amos Date: 31 Mar 08 - 06:32 PM For what it is worth, some advice on the topic from a circulating e-mail: TIPS ON PUMPING GAS I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in California we are also paying higher, up to $4.00 per gallon. But my line of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some tricks to get more of your money's worth for every gallon. Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose, CA we deliver about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline. One day it's diesel, the next day it's jet fuel, and gasoline, regular and premium grades. We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of 16,800,000 gallons. ***Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important role. A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps. ***When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3) stages: low, middle, and high. In slow mode you should be pumping on low speed, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some other liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less worth for your money. ***One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF FULL or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, every truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount. ***Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up--most likely the gasoline is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up some f the dirt that normally settles on the bottom. Hope this will help you get the most value for your money. DO SHARE THESE TIPS WITH OTHERS! WHERE TO BUY USA GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON. Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it. It might even be good for us! The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We should return the favor. An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS. Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis. Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family, and my friends. I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil. These companies import Middle Eastern oil: Shell....... ......... ......... .. 205,742,000 barrels Chevron/Texaco. ........ 144,332,000 barrels Exxon /Mobil...... ......... 130,082,000 barrels Marathon/Speedway. .. 117,740,000 barrels Amoco....... ......... ......... ...62,231, 000 barrels Citgo gas is from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans. If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! (Oil is now $90 - $100 a barrel) Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil: Sunoco...... ......... ...0 barrels Conoco...... ......... ...0 barrels Sinclair.... ......... ....0 barrels B P/Phillips.. ......... .0 barrels Hess........ ......... ......0 barrels ARC0........ ......... ...0 barrels If you go to Sunoco.com < < will get a list of the gas station locations near you. All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas buyers. It's really simple to do. Now, I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!! James Curran |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: saulgoldie Date: 25 Oct 04 - 04:02 PM That should have been "Spaceship Earth." And I should say that it will survive, no matter what. But it will survive in a way that we will not recognize. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: saulgoldie Date: 25 Oct 04 - 03:59 PM And besides the pollution issue, as CarolC has mentioned, is still the problem of warming the atmosphere by burning *anything*. Yes, global warming is *real* and it is comin to get us. The equation that works is some form of energy that does not add heat or pollution, balanced with realistic energy use diets that are sustainable. When I was a kid, most families that had a car at all had one per family, and it was driven far less than 10K miles per year. Now, there is almost one car for every family member (in non-urban settings, it should be mentioned) and 10K per year is considered light use. More people driving more miles. And air-conditioning is almost universal and used every day that heating is not. Furthermore--and sorry for the thread drift, but this thread has morphed into energy use, in general--there are more people, not just in the US, but in the emerging economies of China and India. If Planet Earth is to survive, we are going to have to dramatically reduce the number of human "parasites" and reign in our appetites for the finite bounty of resources that Mother Nature has given us to get us going until we figured out how to make the whole thing work. We are failing miserably, at the present time. And given political and economic realities, the likelihood is that we will not figure it out until is is way too late. It may already be too late. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: emjay Date: 23 Oct 04 - 02:40 PM This is one of the most interesting threads yet. And to think it just started with the cost of gas. The big answer in Alaska is "Open ANWR"--the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge Never mind that we could easily save more than ANWR would ever produce. We could increase the air pressure in our tires, we could car pool, we could drive economical cars--our Toyota gets 40 mpg. No, open ANWR is all we hear. And then when it is gone? There is a finite supply of oil, and we are parasites on this planet determined to kill our host. And though I do some recycling, and make other efforts to be more green, there are probably a lot more things I could be doing, also. And I remember filling up once during a gas price war in Detroit, 1961 at 14.9 a gallon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: CarolC Date: 22 Oct 04 - 04:07 PM With any kind of energy source that involves combustion, including getting a burnable fuel from discarded plastic, there is still the problem of air polution. There are other alternatives in the works that address that problem. Those are the ones we should be giving our most serious atention to. All other considerations should just be short term solutions until we get the non-polluting energy sources in place and working. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: GUEST,Larry K Date: 22 Oct 04 - 03:31 PM Gypsy: You are more correct than you probably know. Right now, renewable energy accounts for 6% of the total energy in the USA. (source: DOE fact sheet dec 2003) The 6% total is broken down as follows: (This may surprise a bunch of you) Biomass 50% Hydro 42% Geothermal 6% Solar 1% Wind 1% Solar and Wind get all the publicity, but biomass (including agricultual mass) is the largest source of renewable energy in the country. I am thinking of using this as a quiz in my presentations , but I don't think anyone will get it correct. Wind and solar are only a small part of our energy mix. Wind in the USA accounts for 6,000 MW of power. California does 2005 MW while Texas does 1305 MW. No one else is even close to that. (Governor Bush was great for wind, President Bush has been terrible) My state of Michigan does 2.4 MW. Big Whoop. I got into a huge fight with the wind developer at a renewable conference in traverse City last week. The shame of it is that brand new weather maps show that Michigan has 16,000 potential MW of level 3 or higher wind in non restricted areas. That is enough to power 100% of all residential homes in Michigan. Sorry for the soapbox- it just frustrates me. 1. The potential of alternative energy available 2. People talk green but don't pay for it 3. Deception- a supplier in Ohio is marketing coal as a "clean energy" Other use a mix of 97% gas and 3% wind- that is wrong 4. Green people want the price of fossil fuel to increase so that they can be competitive rather than finding ways to decrease the cost of alternative energy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Gypsy Date: 22 Oct 04 - 11:46 AM Rapaire, there is a way to do that. Called Thermo depolymerization....and it works. Would clean up the land fills, and give us crude for a fraction of the current costs. They can reuse almost anything, except nuclear waste. Has my vote. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: CarolC Date: 21 Oct 04 - 05:54 PM That's good to hear, Rapaire. Remember back in the olden days when 25 mpg on the highway was considered a gas hog? Things sure have changed eh? Ford (along with a couple of other auto makers) is coming out with a hybrid SUV soon should your wife find the Element too costly to keep in motion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Rapparee Date: 21 Oct 04 - 05:12 PM Ah, Carol, some of us have been conserving more and driving less since the 1970s. My wife's new car, a Honda Element, gets about 25 mpg on the highway -- not nearly as good as my Civic, but still WAY above the mileage of the SUVs on our block. My next car will probably be a hybrid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: CarolC Date: 21 Oct 04 - 04:48 PM BTW, for anyone who wants to drive a lot, but doesn't want to shell out a lot of money for gas.. DRIVE A HYBRID CAR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: CarolC Date: 21 Oct 04 - 04:46 PM I'm another one of those who think this is good news. Just look at the posts in this thread in which people have said they're conserving more and driving less. This is a good thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: GUEST,Larry K Date: 21 Oct 04 - 04:32 PM Americans talk green but won't pay for it. At the NREL Green Power Marketing conference in Albany NY last week, they reported that the average participation in utility green power programs was 1.2% with only two communities (Autin TX, and Palo Alto CA) having significant penetration. Surveys report that 40% say they would sign up for green power but only 1.5% actually do. It is not helpful that environmentalists want the cost of "brown" power to increase to make "green" power more competitive. The higher gasoline and natural gas costs this year will have a severe effect on our enconomy and threaten low income people. With the chaos in the middle east, strikes in Nigeria, political uncertainly in Venezuela, and Hurrican Ivan destroying the Gulf of Mexico- things do not look good. Ace (energy think tank) just put out their revised natural gas forecasts. In 2003 they predicted a price decline in 2004. Their revived 2004 forecast shows natural gas increasing until 2007 and not getting back to current levels until 2010. Very gloomy outlook and not getting better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Rapparee Date: 21 Oct 04 - 04:05 PM I remember 0.36 9/10 per gallon, but I know that I've paid less. Regular unleaded gas is $2.05 per gallon here right now. It will go higher, no matter who is elected. There is NO quick and simple fix and anyone who says or believes there is is delusional. And yes, it WILL be gone some day -- perhaps we can make oil out of the petroleum-based plastics we now throw away? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: GUEST,saulgoldie Date: 21 Oct 04 - 02:27 PM As I have said before here, we (Americans) are far too comfortable with our WAY-below-fair-market prices for gasoline. We have squandered almost 30 years of valuable opportunity (since it became all-too-obvious that we would be running out) to impose severe gas taxes to bring what we pay up to that level, and use the difference to build and promote more effective and available public transit that uses less fuel per passenger mile and relieves people of the need to drive so much. The other part of the equation is that people in this country have allowed themselves to expect to travel overall more miles (or kliks, if you like) than most people in other countries. Traveling so much and insisting so vehemently on one person per vehicle is what has gotten us to the point where we are so whiny about creeping gas prices. Oh, that and feeling "entitled" to "go-fast" and vastly-larger-than-necessary vehicles. Peersonally, I can't wait for higher prices. Among other profound changes, will likely be less traffic on the roads so I can feel safer again on my bicycle. And I will be less likely to be, as I was a few weeks back, squished between two SUVs that drove away while my poor little sedan was totalled. To higher gas prices, I say, "Bring...them...on!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: DMcG Date: 21 Oct 04 - 01:35 PM Worth a try? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: John MacKenzie Date: 21 Oct 04 - 01:22 PM Steam engines that's the answer. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Bill D Date: 21 Oct 04 - 12:46 PM as I said above, I once paid 17.9¢ a gallon. That was in Wichita, Kans during the gas wars in 1969 or so, when the independents and the majors fought over whether the price difference was to be 1¢ or 2¢. I did regularly buy gas in the 20¢ range for a couple of years. There was one old lady who ran a small chain of independents who lowered the price to 15.9 for maybe 2 days, but I never got to the south part of town to buy any. In 1975 I went to Juneau, Alaska and was appalled to see prices of 75¢ a gallon. Obviously, we need to do many things about energy dependency, but one MAJOR one is to figure out what happens when petroleum supplies worldwide are just-not-there! Anyone for stock in railroads again? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Oaklet Date: 21 Oct 04 - 12:11 PM If we got our own diesel from the north sea crude, it would be cheaper but the north sea stuff is only suitable for cracking into nail narnish remover and ouzo. We therefor have to buy Saudi crude which bumps the price up. The French get theirs from Algeria when the Algerians aren't looking. You can get a quart of diesel from every hogshead of Algerian crude. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: John MacKenzie Date: 21 Oct 04 - 07:10 AM Diesel was always cheaper than petrol in the UK, and still is in most other countries I've been to. That changed due to some chancellor of the exchequer or other getting his tax sums wrong, and has remained so ever since. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: GUEST,Mingulay Date: 21 Oct 04 - 06:29 AM I'm impressed with the maths Giok. Have never worked out why diesel is now 2-3p/litre dearer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: John MacKenzie Date: 21 Oct 04 - 05:34 AM Up here in the highlands os Scotland where fuel is always dearer than the south, I paid 89.9p a litre for diesel last week. That is £4:08.69p per UK gallon or £3:40.27p per US gallon, that's nearly $6:12.5 cents US. Scary or what? Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: DMcG Date: 21 Oct 04 - 05:26 AM As a child, about the first time that I appreciated how businesses worked was when the UK price of petrol rose to the point that its price would no longer fit in the price window of the petrol pumps, setting an artificial upper limit on the price that could be charged. I was astonished how quickly every pump in the country was replaced to resolve the issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: GUEST,Mingulay Date: 21 Oct 04 - 05:19 AM I know that historically you have always had cheap fuel on the Western shores of the pond, and it seems that you still have. Here in Blighty we are paying anything up to 87 pence per litre which works out around double the most expensive US rate. No wonder that small diesels sell well here. I remember when I started driving back in the early 60's £1.00 would buy 4 gallons (UK) and give change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Ebbie Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:48 PM In Depoe Bay, Oregon, in the mid60s, I routinely paid 17 cents per gallon. This however was a 'no service' station- you washed your own windows and checked your own oil. 21 and 23 cents was the norm at full service stations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Deckman Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:15 PM 21 cents a gallon! True story ... but then, you must realize just how damned old I am. And also true, at 21 cents a gallon, all of us youngsters also carried syphon hoses! Geeze, I hope my kids aren't reading this tonight! CHEERS, Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: pdq Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:14 PM In 1968, dope was $10.00 a "lid" (= 1 ounce). Now, dope is $400.00 per ounce. Still, some people on this thread are smoking way too much of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Amos Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:05 PM Up to $2.50 in the pricey joints here. That is exactly 1000% of what I pumped it for in my first job at the Shell Station on Route 7. Cokes were a dime, and smokes were 30 cents. 1000% over 40 years is about what -- 25% a year? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:54 PM .28 per gallon. Those were the days. I have cut out a great deal of driving and always try to lump together several tasks. I drive a pickup, and knew this was a possibility when I bought it. I hope I shop more carefully now because I plan ahead. I paid well over $2 per gallon when I was visiting in the Seattle area last week. Now we're up to about $1.84 in Fort Worth at the stations I go to. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: frogprince Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:45 PM Okay, guys; a question (more to the older 'catters): What was the lowest price you remember paying for gas? I really can't say about the years of my first childhood, as I usually gassed up from the tank on the farm, and Dad never said nothin' about what he paid for the stuff. I was in Arkansas 1968-1970, and got premium for .23, possibly .21, when there were price wars on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Bert Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:43 PM OK. then Bill $3.99 9/10. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Bill D Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:30 PM (so far, I still have not paid $2 a gallon...$1.99.9, yes.... (compared to the 17.9¢ I paid once in 1969 or so, it is sacry!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Bill D Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:28 PM nope...I have already cut out a lot of non-essential driving.. It's gonna be 'interesting' |
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Subject: BS: Gas prices doubled in 4 years. From: Bert Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:19 PM Wanna try for $4.00 a gallon? |
