BS: Kerry concedes Missouri

Subject: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: red_clay
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:09 PM

Breaking News from NewsMax.com

Kerry Concedes Missouri

Sen. John Kerry lost his battle to make Missouri a battleground state.

While the Democrat and President Bush still have legions of supporters working in the state, Missouri hasn't been a focus of television advertising or candidate visits for weeks. Polls suggest that with the race close nationally Bush leads in Missouri; Kerry's only chance of winning the state is if he takes the national popular vote by several percentage points, strategists in both parties say. [More below...]




The road to the White House normally runs through Missouri, a state that has sided with the winner in every election but one -- 1956 -- for the past century. Bush won the state by 4 percentage points in 2000.

Kerry sought to put Missouri and its 11 electoral votes into play. His campaign spent $5.8 million and the Democratic National Committee spent $1.7 million before Labor Day.

Missouri has been growing more with each election cycle. Four years ago, Bush won a majority of independent voters and took advantage of the state's anti-tax sentiments. Nearly half of the state's voters identify themselves as "born again" or evangelical Christian.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:13 PM

Bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:27 PM

Red Clay:

The term "concede" is an active verb. What is this crap?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: open mike
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:29 PM

if you look at www.NewsMax.com
it is easy to see that this is
not a fair and balanced news
source..with "reports" by Pat
Boone, Laura Schleissenger,
Jerry Falwell, Rush Limbaugh,
and O'Reilly, there is no way
they can pretend to be offering
an accurate view of the whole
story..their "journalists",
do not make an effort to
include any opposing view
points...just their version
of the "truth".

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:32 PM

Half the Missourians are "born again"?

What happened to "I'm from Missouri"?

Sound like another state will have to take that slogan.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:33 PM

Excuse me---"Sounds like"

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:40 PM

Red Clay concedes credibility!

Red Clay has lost his battle to convince anyone on the Mudcat of anything.

While he continues to post his partisan drivel, the results are in. His rants raves and refusal to speak in any kind of reasoned way, have lead Mudcatters to disregard pretty much anything he says and are now only communicating with him to mock him or to tell him he is insane. Catters say that Clay's only chance of gaining a receptive audience would depend upon him becoming reasonable and more friendly. It ain't gonna happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:53 PM

Red Clay, do you realize that you don't have to start a new thread every time you want to make a comment? It's preverable to add to existing threads, and there are plenty of election threads going already. You've started far more than your quota.

Shoot for no more than one new thread a day. If you consistently violate that limit, you'll find your threads will be deleted, and we'll stop being polite to you.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:09 PM

Yo, Red, don't take it personally. Heck. I'z way over on the other side an' they came and took me aside and gave me "the talk"... Once you figgure it out then it's a lot better since rather than start a new thread, jus mess up dsomeone else's...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Old Guy
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:25 PM

It is only credible if it states Kerry won. Otherwise jet in the lawyers.

Here is trick the Democrats pulled in Missouri in 2000:

"Mandate for Reform
In an effort to keep the polls open past the closing time mandated by statute, Plaintiffs the Gore-Lieberman Campaign, William L. (Lacy) Clay's Campaign, and the Missouri State Democratic Committee filed a lawsuit in St. Louis City Circuit Court in which the lead Plaintiff (Robert D. Odom) was dead. The Plaintiffs then stated that the actual lead Plaintiff was Robert M. Odom. The Plaintiffs claimed that Robert M. Odom was not allowed to vote. However, Mr. Odom in fact had voted and had no trouble voting. As a result of the lawsuit and the representations made by the lead Plaintiff and witnesses, the St. Louis City Circuit Court issued an Order keeping the polls open in St. Louis City past the closing time mandated by statute. The information suggests that the lawsuit was not filed as a result of problems that occurred on election day, but instead was filed as a result of a plan conceived before election day. At about the same time that the court issued the Order, St. Louis City residents were receiving pre-recorded telephone messages from Rev. Jesse Jackson telling them they could vote late, and half an hour later Vice President Al Gore was telling KMOX radio listeners that the polls were still open. The purpose of these communications was to encourage persons not eligible to vote because of their failure to get to the polls on time to nonetheless go to the polls and vote."
http://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/pubs/reformmandate/reportpage4.asp

"RESULTS OF INVESTIGATION
The investigation into conduct of the November 7 election consisted of reviewing primarily documentary evidence.14 The Secretary of State's investigation was limited to public documents. The Secretary of State has no subpoena power to compel disclosure of non-public documents or to compel persons to testify under oath about these matters. Therefore, one of the purposes of this Report is to make a referral of the information contained herein to the appropriate law enforcement organizations with jurisdiction over these matters and the authority to compel testimony under oath to investigate whether election laws were violated and prosecute the persons who violated any laws.

   1. There Is Substantial And Credible Information That The Judicial Process Was Misused To Secure Court Orders To Allow Persons Not Legally Entitled To Vote To Nevertheless Cast Ballots In The Election


A brief overview of the events that occurred late on election day is necessary. At approximately 3:20 p.m. on election day, the Gore-Lieberman Campaign, William L. (Lacy) Clay's Campaign Committee and the Missouri State Democratic Party filed a petition in St. Louis City Circuit Court.75 The petition, entitled "Petition For Emergency Order to Extend Voting Hours" asked the court to keep the polls open in St. Louis City until 10:00 p.m., three hours past the 7:00 p.m. closing time required by statute. At approximately 6:30 p.m., the court issued its Order that the polls remain open until 10:00 p.m. and the Board's central office be held open until 11:59 p.m. An emergency appeal was taken to the Court of Appeals, and at approximately 7:45 p.m., that court issued a Preemptory Writ of Prohibition quashing the Circuit Court's Order. The Court of Appeals followed with a full opinion on the case issued on December 6, 2000. The end result is that the polls remained open at least forty-five minutes past the closing time set by statute.

The lawsuit appears to have been filed not as a result of any problems that occurred on election day, but instead was the result of a preconceived plan devised before election day. On Monday, November 6, the day before the election, at a Gore-Lieberman Campaign rally in America's Center in St. Louis City, Congressman Clay spoke to the crowd spoke to the crowd about keeping the polls open beyond the legal closing time. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported these remarks by Congressman Clay: "If it requires leaving the polls open a little longer, we're going to get a court order to do it."76

Further evidence that there was a preconceived plan before election day were the numerous similarities between the lawsuit in St. Louis City and one filed the same day in Kansas City.77 The same language used in both petitions suggests that these lawsuits were coordinated and planned before election day. The Gore-Lieberman Campaign was also a plaintiff in the Kansas City lawsuit. The press reported that the Kansas City petition "relies on the same law and includes language similar to the petition filed in St. Louis."78

A comparison of the two petitions reveals not only similar language, but also long passages that are word-for-word exactly the same. This comparison makes it apparent that the two petitions were not created to address specific problems on election day and were not crafted to address unique concerns in one jurisdiction. The advance preparation of canned pleadings suggests a plan was developed before election day."

"Petition For Emergency Order to Extend Voting Hours
5. "Robert D. Odom [A deadman] has not been able to vote and fears he will not be able to vote because of the long lines at the polling places/machine breakdowns in St. Louis, Missouri, that have lasted for several hours."
http://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/pubs/reformmandate/reportpage5.asp



Ron:
Is the office of the secretary of state of Missouri credible enough for ya?

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Peace
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:29 PM

Missouri will vote for Kerry. No question, because they ain't stupid there.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:34 PM

unlike some other places and individuals that could be made mention of.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 07:04 AM

Trying to ensure sure that as many voters as possible could register their votes is something on which all democratic parties should be one hundred per cent agreed. If that might help one party rather thah the other, that is completely irrelevant.

The implication of red clay's post is that to try to extend the hours a polling station is open, in order to maximise the number of people voting, should be seen as a dirty trick.

One thing is pretty clear, people who try to stop people voting, or stop their votes being counted, are enemies of the democratic process.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 09:07 AM

"Whoa, back" a little folks; I know Red Clay is a trip; but there is some implication here that...gasp...Democratics may once have done something manipulative during an election. Now I can hardly imagine what candidate I wouldn't choose over "W", and I think a lot of his campaign is "shiite". But do you have any idea how many tombstones in Chicago voted Democratic in 1960?.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 10:59 AM

we have had plenty scheming, greedy politicians in the Democratic party at various times, Mayor Daly only being one of the most obvious. But this is minor league compared to a subtle, nefarious, grandiose plan by the leadership of the Republicans to skew the very mechanism of government and election process to ensure that, even without blatently illegal vote tampering like Daly used to do, the results will be stacked in their (the Republicans) favor.

Between redistricting, padding the Supreme court, controlling much of the media, playing to special interests and the politics of fear, and keeping the society polarized, they intend to manipulate the outcome indefinately, while maintaining an illusion of democracy.

You must understand...those who want to do this consider it a mission, and do not have any qualms about cheating a bit to ensure the 'deserving' continue to run things.

They have not quite got all their systems in place yet, but THIS election is a major step. If G. Bush gets to appoint 3-4 justices the next 4 years, just watch....

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Nerd
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 12:40 PM

Well said Bill D!

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 01:00 PM

Registration fraud by Sproul Associates

September 21, 2004


Librarian bares possible voter registration dodge

Company claiming affiliation with the non-partisan 'America Votes' group appears to represent the GOP

By MEG LANDERS, Mail Tribune

A local librarian checking on a company's request to set up a voter registration booth in the library discovered the company was not affiliated with a non-partisan national group as it claimed. Sproul & Associates, Inc. of Phoenix, Ariz., phoned and mailed the library in September, saying it had been hired by America Votes. That came as news to America Votes.

"This organization (Sproul) absolutely has nothing to do with America Votes," said Kevin Looper, the state organizing director for America Votes. America Votes is a non-partisan political organization formed in July 2003 to increase voter registration, education and participation in electoral politics. Libraries in Oregon and other states have been contacted by Sproul. Looper said attorneys at America Votes' Washington, D.C. headquarters have taken over. "We are in the process of pursuing all of our legal options to pursue (an order to) cease and desist."

But the man behind the matter says it was an innocent mistake. "We were not trying to copy their name," said Nathan Sproul, owner of the consulting and management company. "All we were trying to do is register people to vote."

In September, the Jackson County Library Services Central Library received a letter from Sproul & Associates, Inc. which began:

"Our firm has been contracted to help coordinate a national non-partisan voter registration drive, America Votes! in several states across the nation." The letter went on to ask if the company could register people to vote in front of the library. Meghan O'Flaherty, headquarters library manager, contacted Kevin Looper, who informed her America Votes did not hire the firm. That's when she learned that Sproul & Associates, Inc. is a political consulting firm headed up by former Arizona state Republican Party executive director Nathan Sproul.

"The only problem I have with it ... is that they're misrepresenting themselves as someone they're not," she said. Libraries in Multnomah, Corvallis/Benton, West Slope and Washington counties also had been contacted, said O'Flaherty.

She said she learned on the Internet that Sproul & Associates is actually a partisan political consulting firm, so the library cannot support them. "If they show up, they're going to have to be out in front of the library and not inside," she said. The toll-free number which librarians were given connects to an answering machine stating that if the caller is interested in canvassing neighborhoods in support of the GOP, he or she should leave a message with contact information.

[snip]

Sproul said Monday the name selection was an honest mistake. "You telling me that they even exist was really the first time I'd heard it," said Sproul. He said his company, hired by a number of clients to register voters, came up with what he believed was a generic name. He said he had not heard from the original America Votes.

See the rest at the link above.

---

Voter registration rules (in Oregon)

Anyone can hand out and collect the state form asking people to register, with no training or registration required. Anyone who collects another person's filled-out registration form has five days to return the form to the Secretary of State's office or the county clerk's office.

Discarding or not turning in the form is a civil violation, subject to fines beginning at $75, according to Secretary of State Elections Officials. Donna Connor, elections deputy at Jackson County Elections, advises those who have registered at a registration drive should wait one or two weeks to receive their card, and if they do not receive it, call 774-6148 to see if the registration form was turned in.

Voter registration forms are available at the Jackson County Elections Center, 1101 W. Main St., Medford, all 15 branches of the county library, the post office, in the Qwest Dex phone book, or at www.sos.state.or.us on the Web.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 01:10 PM

thoughts from the past: for some reason they hit me hard....can't understand why.

"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side."

Aristotle        
   Politics        
-----------------------------------------------------
"Almost every party grasps that it is in the interest of its own self-preservation that the opposing party should not decay in strength; the same is true of grand politics. A new creation, the new Reich for instance, has more need of enemies than friends: only in opposition does it feel itself necessary, only in opposition does it become necessary...."

Friedrich Nietzsche        
   Twilight of the Idols

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Old Guy
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 12:47 AM

Why should the number of voter registrations exceed the population of elligible voters?

When the Democrats want it to.

"Philadelphia voter rolls now exceed the total of the city's voting age population"
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04300/401796.stm

"Number of new voters soaring
Registration tops estimates of eligibility, officials say
Friday, October 01, 2004
Robert Vitale
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

After nine months of intense voter-registration efforts focused on Franklin County, the number of people signed up to cast ballots in the Nov. 2 election has surpassed U.S. Census estimates of those eligible.

There are about 815,000 Franklin County residents older than 18, according to the most recent census estimates, for 2003."

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 02:24 AM

OG:

Funny you should attribute the count to Democrats when the article says nothing about parties.

Any reason for that? Blind assumptions? Pre-judgement? Bias? Something of that sort?

I have seen a few stories of vote manipulation by Democratic agencies, but I have seen far more attributable to GOP swindlers.

I dunno why --maybe I am wearing biased glasses.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 02:32 AM

Just for example:

Oct. 13) -- Federal, state, and local officials are gathering information about allegations of voter registration fraud that were first raised Channel 8 Eyewitness News.


An employee of a private voter registration firm alleges that his bosses trashed registration forms filled out by Democratic voters because they only wanted to sign up Republican voters.


The allegations have set off a political firestorm stretching from Las Vegas to Washington D.C., and beyond. 


As with everything else in this election year, it's now become a political football being tossed between the two parties, with charges and countercharges, but at its core, there still remains the matter of registration forms that were ripped up and tossed in the trash.


Who did it, and why? That's what official agencies will try to determine. On Tuesday afternoon, Las Vegan Eric Russell and his girlfriend took a packet of documents to the Las Vegas FBI office but left before filing a formal complaint about what Russell says was a deliberate effort to disenfranchise local voters.


Russell worked for a company called Voters Outreach of America, along with 300 other people. He says he got into a beef with the company over a pay dispute, and witnessed his bosses ripping up registration forms that had been filed by democrats.


"They were thrown away in the trash. I grabbed them out," said Eric Russell. One of those forms belonged to Daren Gray, who was shocked to learn that the re-registration form he filled out was never turned in.

---

But I think we can all agree that voter fraud, padded rolls and manipulation by underhanded disenfranchisement is below the minimum standard for this country, can't we? Whether Democratic, Republic or Green, no party has the right to fuck with what should be a clear, straightforward and sanctified process.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 02:44 AM

A

"But I think we can all agree that voter fraud, padded rolls and manipulation by underhanded disenfranchisement is below the minimum standard for this country, can't we? Whether Democratic, Republic or Green, no party has the right to fuck with what should be a clear, straightforward and sanctified process."


I agree with you 100% on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 02:50 AM

Hot damn!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry concedes Missouri
From: Genie
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 03:21 AM

"The road to the White House normally runs through Missouri, a state that has sided with the winner in every election but one -- 1956 -- for the past century. Bush won the state by 4 percentage points in 2000."

Excuse me. Has anyone ever tallied ALL these bellwethers? E.g., "The taller candidate always wins." (In 2000, if you go by the actual, official winner, that 'tradtion' was broken. If you went by the popuar vote or by what post-hoc investigations indicated the "real" result was, Gore did indeed win.)
The point? Not ALL these various predictors can hold true, since they don't always agree with each other.

Not to mention that THERE'S A FIRST TIME FOR EVERYTHING.

§;-D