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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: freda underhill Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:31 AM Hundreds Gather At Ohio Statehouse To Demand Recount Of Votes; Election Day Is Over But The Contest Is Not (12/05/04) Reported by: A.P.;12/5/2004 11:54:01 AM cincinnati.com About 400 people gathered at the Ohio Statehouse to demand a recount of Ohio's presidential election, or at least a look into Election Day irregularities around the state. The crowd listened to speakers who claimed Ohio voters were the victims of a fraud that took votes from John Kerry and gave them to President Bush. One group says it plans to contest the election in the Ohio Supreme Court and that the fraud details would come out in its court filing, expected Monday. Ohio was the state that the election hung on, and Kerry would have won the presidency had he carried the state's 20 electoral votes. He conceded the day after the election, saying there was not enough provisional and other ballots to swing the results his way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: GUEST,Frank Date: 05 Dec 04 - 03:42 PM Fact: Diebold systems were presided over by Walden O'Dell, a Republican who stated that he would win the election for Bush in Ohio. Fact: All three systems are owned and controlled by Republicans. Fact: Ken Blackwell is a leading Ohio Republican fox in charge of the henhouse. Not to be confused with Fox Network being in charge of the media Republican henhouse. "Unfair and unbalanced". Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: CarolC Date: 05 Dec 04 - 02:30 PM If every vote is going to be recounted where the race was close, how about Wisconsin and other close states? They were way closer that Ohio and Florida. By all means. If there were any voting irregularities reported in Wisconsin and other close states, let's make sure the voting process in those states was honest and valid. The important thing isn't so much who wins. The important thing is how they win. What we want is democracy, and open, honest, and verifiable elections. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Genie Date: 05 Dec 04 - 12:04 AM It wouldn't surprise me at all if there was electronic "cheating" on BOTH sides -- IF the Democrats had any access to the source codes of the voting machines. However, in many cases, the source code is PROPRIETARY to the machine manufacturers, most of whom, as far as I know, tend to favor the Republicans. More to the point, if the private companies own the software, who knows WHICH way they may have rigged thing? I'm not too dismayed that Kerry "conceded," though. It's not binding, and it probably allowed the Democrats to "fly under the radar" in their recounting efforts. Following what Bev Harris et al. have encountered in Florida, we see the lenghts some party operatives will go to to avoid a fair recount when their backs are to the wall. If Kerry/Edwards had followed in Gore's footsteps and held off for a recount, the media would have been in "crisis" mode ever since Nov. 3, bewailing how our poor country was being held hostage to having to wait a few weeks to find out who won! (We actually need to GET OVER this insane sense of urgency about having to have our election results in 24 hours! Washington state isn't going to know for sure who their new governor is for another week or two, yet I expect they'll survive! Same thing for San Diego in their mayoral race.) Y'know what bugs me, though, every bit as much as the posibble behind-the-scenes vote count distortion? It's the THEFT IN PLAIN SIGHT that's tolerated by the media and the public at large! We all saw, on Nov. 2 and 3 -- and even earlier in Florida -- how a lot of people were having to stand on line for hours on end to vote! We also knew this wasn't true everywhere. Even if it were ubiquitous, it would be WRONG, but when it obviously happens pretty much only in lower-income urban areas, a huge RED FLAG should go up in the eyes of the press and the public. Instead, the TV news covered this sort of story with a "Wow! Isn't it great that people care that much about this election?!!" type attitude. THAT shouldn't have been THE big story! THE story is "Why the heck does ANYBODY in the USA in 2004 HAVE to wait more than an hour to vote? And WHY is it harder for urban (largely minority and/or lower-income) residents to vote than for rural and suburban (mostly white and/or more affluent) voters to do so? Perhaps even more important: HOW MANY voters were, in effect DISENFRANCHISED by such insurmountable obstacles as having to wait on line several hours to vote? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: GUEST,Thomas Date: 04 Dec 04 - 11:42 PM "No mortal can foresee in favor of which party the election will go. There is one supreme consolation. That our people have so innate a spirit of order & obedience to the law, so religious an acquiescence in the will of the majority, and deep conviction of the fundamental importance of the principle that the will of the majority ought to be submitted to the minority, that a majority of a single vote, as at the last election, produces as absolute & quiet a submission as a unanimous vote" Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William Short March 26, 1800 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: GUEST,2BAD Date: 04 Dec 04 - 10:49 PM If every vote is going to be recounted where the race was close, how about Wisconsin and other close states? They were way closer that Ohio and Florida. Kerry got only 22,823 more votes than Bush in Wisconsin. Kerry got only 9,171 more votes than Bush in New Hampshire The margin in Ohio was 13,6483 The margin in Florida was 38,1147 2BAD |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: freda underhill Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:08 AM re The U.S. House Committee on the Judiciary is scheduling a public congressional forum on voting irregularities in Ohio on December 8.. Wikipedia has a good analysis of what has happened, its constantly being updated: wikipedia onU.S presidential election controversy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Amos Date: 03 Dec 04 - 07:27 PM Declaring the count void? I doubt that would hunt as far as the front door! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: John Routledge Date: 03 Dec 04 - 04:25 PM How about following Ukraine's lead.? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Ellenpoly Date: 03 Dec 04 - 12:10 PM That it's taking the Greens and the Independants to question the vote tally is most depressing, but I'm glad they're doing it. Screw Kerry, I lost what little respect for him I had when he conceded so quickly, and I don't give a rat's ass what his reasons were. This whole process needs to be pulled apart before the next election nightmare. ..xx..e Published Tuesday, November 30, 2004 by the New York Daily News Ohio Tally Fit for Ukraine by Juan Gonzalez It has been a month now and we still don't have a clear count of the votes for our own presidential race from the state of Ohio. For those who may have forgotten, Ohio supposedly assured George W. Bush a second term in the White House - only the most important job on the planet. The morning after the election, we were told Bush was ahead of John Kerry in that state's unofficial count by 139,000 votes, or 2.5%. At the time there were 155,000 uncounted provisional ballots and an unknown number of overseas ballots, but Kerry concluded they would not produce enough of a margin to erase his deficit, so he promptly conceded. At the same time, given the bitter Democratic memories of the 2000 Florida fiasco, he assured his supporters he would fight to have every vote properly counted this time. Within a few days, other problems began to show up in Ohio's preliminary tally. We learned, for example, that an additional 93,000 voters had gone to the polls yet machines had registered no preference of theirs for President. Only a manual recount can tell us for sure what happened to those 93,000 ballots. Then, red-faced election officials in Franklin County admitted a computer error on Election Night had tallied 4,258 votes for Bush in a precinct where only 638 people voted. That correction alone will drop Bush's margin by 3,620. And now Daily News reporter Larry Cohler-Esses and I have uncovered some more unusual vote totals, this time in black neighborhoods of Cleveland. Those results are from the precinct-by-precinct tallies released by the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections, where Cleveland is located. In the 4th Ward on Cleveland's East Side, for example, two fringe presidential candidates did surprisingly well. In precinct 4F, located at Benedictine High School on Martin Luther King Jr. Drive, Kerry received 290 votes, Bush 21 and Michael Peroutka, candidate of the ultra-conservative anti-immigrant Constitutional Party, an amazing 215 votes! That many black votes for Peroutka is about as likely as all those Jewish votes for Buchanan in Florida's Palm Beach County in 2000. In precinct 4N, also at Benedictine High School, the tally was Kerry 318, Bush 21, and Libertarian Party candidate Michael Badnarik 163. Back in 2000, the combined third-party votes in those two precincts - including the Nader vote - was 8. Cuyahoga, like most of Ohio's 88 counties, uses punch-card balloting. "That's terrible, I can't believe it," said City Councilman Kenneth Johnson, who has represented the 4th Ward since 1980. "It's obviously a malfunction with the machines." But Peroutka and Badnarik polled unusually well in a few other black precincts. In the 8th Ward's G precinct at Cory United Methodist Church, for instance, Badnarik tallied 51 votes - nearly three times better than Bush's 19. And in I precinct at the same church, Peroutka was the choice on 27 ballots, three times more than Bush's 8. In 2000, independent candidates received 9 votes from both precincts. The same pattern showed up in 10 Cleveland precincts in which Badnarik and Peroutka received nearly 700 votes between them. In virtually all those precincts, Kerry's vote was lower than Al Gore's in 2000, even though there was a record turnout in the black community this time, and even though blacks voted overwhelmingly for Kerry. If this same pattern held true in other cities around Ohio, then quite possibly thousands of votes meant for Kerry somehow ended up in the tallies of the two independent candidates. So far, however, precinct-by-precinct results have not been posted by boards of elections in other counties, but by Thursday all official results are due. On Monday, Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell will certify Ohio's results and then a manual recount will be requested by the Green and Libertarian parties. The Badnarik and Peroutka surge was not the only unusual occurrence in Cleveland. Also unusual was the drop in the Democratic vote in scores of precincts compared to 2000. But more on that next time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: CarolC Date: 30 Nov 04 - 10:11 PM Nader wasn't looking to gain votes, and he did not expect to gain any. He was looking into possible voting irregularities. I know you wouldn't want any of our elections to be tainted by any possibility of cheating, GUEST,2BAD. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: GUEST,2BAD Date: 30 Nov 04 - 10:00 PM Mr Nader demanded a hand recount in NH which was just finished. He gained 10 votes!!!!!!! In New Hampshire, independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader's requested 11-precinct hand recount ended with results changing little from initial tallies. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apelection_story.asp?category=1131&slug=Election%20Challenges 2BAD |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: CarolC Date: 30 Nov 04 - 06:54 PM They don't believe in democracy, Amos. They're anti-American and anti-democracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Amos Date: 30 Nov 04 - 05:53 PM Vote counting on going in Ohio. What I don't get is the smarmy superior attitude that says "Votes don't matter, only winners matter.". Does the phrase "Weimar Republic " not mean anything to you? Is your love of moral values powerful enough to make you amoral? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: GUEST,Algore Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:51 PM Martin The Bulls didn't really lose those 8 games, the scores were fraudulently recorded in a right wing republican conspiracy. Those games were stolen, and we need an investigation and a recount to get the truth out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Peace Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:17 AM . . . and EATing it? Aaaaaargh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: GUEST,2BAD Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:09 AM I heard they were picking their nose and eating it. This comes from the ihaterepublicans.org website and constitues a report. No charges, judge or jury required for a conviction. 2BAD |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Nerd Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:43 AM For those who don't bother to read links, Amos posted a report showing that in Volusa county, Florida, election officials have been destroying and throwing away original, signed polling place tapes (on which vote tallies were recorded) and replacing them with false ones, which seemed to show more votes for Bush and other Republicans. The Freedom of Information Act request enacted by Bev Harris of blackbox voting is causing them to panic. Rather than turn over the real tapes, they are printing out new, falsified ones and destroying the originals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: CarolC Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:46 PM We'll see, Martin. dianavan, I have to admit, I'll be happy with either candidate winning if it can be demonstrated that all of the votes have been counted fairly. I just want an honest election system. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Once Famous Date: 22 Nov 04 - 09:46 PM The Bulls are 0-8. What a shame for a once great franchise. BTW, everyone, did you hear Kerry lost? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: dianavan Date: 22 Nov 04 - 09:13 PM C'mon Christine! d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Don Firth Date: 22 Nov 04 - 07:22 PM Christine Gregoire (Democrat) and Dino Rossi (Republican) are locked in the closest race for the office of governor in Washington State's history. With only a few thousand votes separating them, Washington State law requires a recount. For several days, Gregoire lead Rossi by a couple thousand votes. As of this morning, Rossi (Rep) is leading Gregoire (Dem) by 262 votes. With many thousands of votes still to be counted, Republicans are trying to stop the recount at this point. Story HERE. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Metchosin Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:33 PM Noticed too, that a Senator from the US, sent to the Ukraine to observe the voting there has declared the election in that country a fraud because the exit polls didn't match the vote tally. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: CarolC Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:23 PM Woahhh... Amos. Very interesting. Thanks for posting that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Amos Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:14 PM A really dramatic tale of altered records and chicanery in the face of Freedom of Information requests by the brave folks at Black Box.org can be found at this page. Enjoy. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Once Famous Date: 18 Nov 04 - 09:15 PM Dear Elva Bontrager Please eat smokie links. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Ebbie Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:27 PM Dear Douglas Richards, Please read those links. Thank you, Elva Bontrager |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: DougR Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:09 PM And the beat goes on. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Ebbie Date: 18 Nov 04 - 06:48 PM This just out: "The three counties where the voting anomalies were most prevalent were also the most heavily Democratic: Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade, respectively. Statistical patterns in counties that did not have e-touch voting machines predict a 28,000 vote decrease in President Bush's support in Broward County; machines tallied an increase of 51,000 votes - a net gain of 81,000 for the incumbent. President Bush should have lost 8,900 votes in Palm Beach County, but instead gained 41,000 - a difference of 49,900. He should have gained only 18,400 votes in Miami-Dade County but saw a gain of 37,000 - a difference of 19,300 votes. "For the sake of all future elections involving electronic voting - someone must investigate and explain the statistical anomalies in Florida," says Professor Michael Hout. "We're calling on voting officials in Florida to take action." "The research team is comprised of doctoral students and faculty in the UC Berkeley sociology department, and led by Sociology Professor Michael Hout, a nationally-known expert on statistical methods and a member of the National Academy of Sciences and the UC Berkeley Survey Research Center. Click for Smoke Alarm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Genie Date: 18 Nov 04 - 09:19 AM Ohio has been pretty much forced to count all votes, including provisional ballots, before certifying their results in a few days. Secretary of State Kenneth "Katherine" Blackwell was SO sure most of the provisional ballots (from people "challenged" by -- mostly -- Republican operatives at the polls) would be thrown out, but it turns out 81% of those ballots were legitimate, by Blackwell's own criteria. The money has been raised for a recount, which will happen after the initial count has been certified. BlackBoxVoting.org is reporting a lockdown of Volusia County election records ( Votergate.tv ) because of poll tape discrepancies, stonewalling, etc. CONSUMER PROTECTION FOR ELECTIONS Harris's organization has launched a fraud audit into Florida. Investigators Bev Harris, Andy Stephenson, and Kathleen Wynne will initiate hand counts on selected counties that have not fully complied with our BlackBoxVotin.org's Freedom of Information request. In addition to the official Ohio recount filed for by David Cobb (Green Party) and Michael Badnarik (Libertarian Party), Black Box Voting is also launching a fraud audit in Ohio. "Latest Katherine Blackwell outrage: Failure to properly account for provisional ballots, and refusing to allow citizens to see the pollbooks." Bev Harris Black Box Voting is also investigating what appears to be widespread vote manipulation in New Mexico and corrupt voting processes in one county in Georgia and election fraud in Pima County Arizona and in the state of Nevada. Frank, you're right that the suppression of the vote also needs to be investigated and publicized. It won't change the outcome of any elections for this year, but legal action needs to be taken and criminal prosecutions pursued. Some of the things that were done to keep people -- mostly minorities and lower income people -- from voting are felonies. We do need a lot more "crybabies!" Like Ralph Nader. Nader is filing to audit Diebold machines in New Hampshire. He says several elements make voting machines "probative" for investigation, according to Nader: proprietary ownership, secret code, vested interests, a high-value reward, and lack of any real consequences, or likelihood of getting caught, for vote manipulation. Nader says "We are told that shenanigans are just politics" "Well, it's not politics. It's taking away people's votes." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: GUEST,Frank Date: 15 Nov 04 - 05:44 PM The question remains about the suppression of the vote as well as the manipulation of the machines and by the denial of the leading GOP governors in Ohio and Florida. The Democrats are not in power. Many of them are still in a state of denial and afraid of being called "crybabies" by the GOP supporters. I am a crybaby because I believe our country's democratic process is going down the tubes. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Genie Date: 14 Nov 04 - 09:55 PM I'm afraid you're right, too, Brucie. What I don't understand is why the political parties -- especially the Democrats (after 2000) -- didn't make this a key campaign focus. The mind boggles! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: dianavan Date: 14 Nov 04 - 08:39 PM brucie - I am afraid you are absolutely right. d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Peace Date: 14 Nov 04 - 07:47 PM There's always the possibility that in a 'greater' agenda, it mattered not one jot or tittle which of the two parties won. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: dianavan Date: 14 Nov 04 - 07:43 PM How could the Democrats overlook the possibility of cyber-sabotage? Why did they allow such a thing to happen? Thats the part I don't understand. d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Genie Date: 14 Nov 04 - 04:07 PM Metochin, your daughter is right. One of the most INSANE aspects of this year's general election is that in many states a lot of precinct data were sent to the central computer over simple modems, from machines using MS Windows and programs like Excel. Talk about hackability!!! >:( The Republicans SHOULD be as concerned about this as any other party. After all, it's been recognized since 2001, if not before, that one potential type of "terrorist" threat is CYBER-sabotage. Yes, US party operatives and pesky teen-agers could have distorted the data in some races in this election, but so could Al Quaeda operatives. If we don't take major steps NOW to ensure the security of our voting systems -- and by "security," I DON'T mean locking out reporters and letting a private corporation or one party count all the votes -- there's more at stake here than just the 2004 Presidency. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Ellenpoly Date: 14 Nov 04 - 01:34 AM And another one...xx...e http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/index.cfm?CFID=13975562&CFTOKEN=4505e37bb0d84744-35C7BB2C-F41E-B87D-FA0E9C0170F7699D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Ellenpoly Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:41 AM If anyone is interested, here is an organization in the process of doing something to make sure there is an accurate investigation into the whole process. Let's face it, without such an investigation, it's only going to continue to be a faulty system..xx..e http://www.moveon.org/front/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Genie Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:48 PM Bush might have won without voter fraud, just on the basis of the inept, gutless media and a "dumbed down" populace, but it's becoming more and more apparent that he -- and probably some Repub. candidates for the House and Senate -- had more than a litte help from hacking, proprietary source codes, and outright voter suppression and intimidation in largely Arican-American and native American precincts. The major media are being muzzled about this, but the story is getting bigger by the hour, and some of the many organizations signing on to fight the fraud are garnering successes in that fight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: GUEST,Frank Date: 06 Nov 04 - 01:06 PM The election was stolen thanks to Walden Odell, Jeb Bush and Ken Blackwell not to mention the suppression by white Republican yahoos in minority voting areas. For furthur information go to www.blackboxvoting.org |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Metchosin Date: 06 Nov 04 - 12:55 PM My understanding is that the machines are connected to a modem and therein lies more vulnerability to hacking or altering totals by outside or (inside) sources, this according to my more savy computer programming daughter. One thing for certain, after reading this, I'm sure thankful for our suposedly antiquated locked slotted metal box and pencil and paper method and the scrutineers who stand watch over the process. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Nerd Date: 06 Nov 04 - 11:27 AM No it doesn't, bb. You're thinking as though the urban counties have one big voting machine, or one big voting district. Philadelphia is divided by population into a huge number of districts which each get several machines. We do not use paperless machines, by the way. So to rig "only" Philadelphia means rigging just as many voting machines in just as many districts as you would to rig an equivalent population in rural PA. In the area of Philly I was in, we had one machine per about 500 registered voters, which is a pretty good ratio, so in fact there may be MORE machines per person to cover in the city than in the country, making it HARDER to rig the urban counties. I suppose it might be marginally easier to do the cities in that you don't have to drive as far to get from machine to machine, but 1) it wouldn't surprise me if all the machines for rural Pennsylvania were stored together at some point. and 2) I don't think that the driving is really an obstacle to people who are rigging an election. In any case, you're just doing what you often do: trying to change the subject. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: CarolC Date: 06 Nov 04 - 12:32 AM Alrighty then. |
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Subject: Nationwide voting machine audit sought From: Genie Date: 05 Nov 04 - 08:44 PM BlackBoxVoting.org has filed the biggest Freedom Of Information request ever, seeking audits of the electronic voting machines in 300 counties. Corporate Machines threw OH & FL election? Ralph Nader is getting behind this effort too -- as a consumer advocate, not as a candidate who lost: Nader seeks NH voting audit |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Bill D Date: 05 Nov 04 - 08:24 PM *IF* there has been rigging done, it should be stopped. It is just that there do not seem to be any |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Nov 04 - 08:09 PM Nerd, My point was that only a few counties need be rigged, to throw the entire state- to either side. I understand about the population, but that only reinforces my point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Nerd Date: 05 Nov 04 - 06:22 PM bb, I don't know what you think you're proving. That map of PA is exactly what anyone from PA would expect. Philadelphia and Allegheny counties (Philly and Pittsburgh) pretty strongly for Kerry, their suburban areas all for Kerry too, sometimes by as much as 15 points without any visible blue appearing. The challenge for Kerry was if he would get suburban voters in places like Montgomery county, and if he would get turnout in places like Philly. I was a poll monitor in Philly, so I can tell you that I saw the turnout with my own eyes in Philly at three polling places, and we were at 2-5 TIMES the numbers that voted in 2000. But i watched 'em going in and counted them, so I know it was for real. All those counties that look so red, unfortunately for Bush, have very few people in them. If you win where the people are, you win. But I agree with you and carol that all the votes should be counted and verified if necessary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: Alba Date: 05 Nov 04 - 06:19 PM I think it would help People understand where their Vote went....why not Count them. I do however question a machine Ballot that has no paper backup...machines are machines after all.....Any Vote is too important to trust it to a device that may malfunction.... If they are for Bush then....they are for Bush. If they are for Kerry well they are for Kerry. Surely the information on the numbers alone would be an asset to either Party...no? and peace of mind for those who Voted and feel that their Vote didn't Count...because nobody counted them....it just doesn't seem right. I say if your confident about your Win it would be a Patriotic and Bipartisan thing to do.... Just a thought Blessings Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: CarolC Date: 05 Nov 04 - 06:10 PM I don't know, beardedbruce. Only way to find out is to make sure all votes are verifiable and counted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Voting problems arising From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 05 Nov 04 - 05:17 PM Frank, I think you are wrong to blame Kerry. He did make a point to say that every vote will be counted. IF there were something to change the election, the fact that Kerry "conceded" would not negate the result. The electoral college still has to meet and the election ratified. Speeches do not seal fates. I am glad Kerry did what he did. I am sure if they had proof that there was enough problems that he would have stayed in. The fact that is he helped start the healing process. We don't want to look like a bunch of whiners. We want justice, but we are also realistic. Sure there were problems. There always have been. This wasn't the same as 2000. |
