BS: Where else could it be put...

Subject: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:30 PM

Now I did not know that there was a Royal position called 'Groom of the Stool' Must be some material here for a Mudact song contest!


November 22, 2004

Soft, strong but a long time to go away – how loo paper puts a strain on the system
By Dominic Kennedy


THE pampered posteriors of Britain's bathrooms are placing an increasing strain on plumbers as ever-kinder toilet tissues block up the nation's drains.

With households preparing to buy bulk supplies for relatives who will descend over Christmas, a timely warning emerges of the hidden dangers posed by lavatory decadence.

A 10 per cent rise in emergency call-outs to unblock toilets is being blamed on the increasing time that it takes for tissue to disintegrate after flushing. In the first six months of this year, more than 35,000 toilets had to be unblocked.

A study looked at how quickly various toilet papers, from luxury brands to newspaper, broke down in water.

The authors stop short of demanding a return to Izal and Bronco, the non-absorbent "tracing-paper" brands which left generations of schoolchildren suffering from scratched bottoms, but Alan McLaughlin, a spokesman for British Gas, which recently bought the drain company Dyno-Rod and carried out the survey, said: "The explosion in luxury toilet paper is placing toilets under considerable strain. Some paper takes hours to disintegrate. This results in our plumbers being called out more often."

The villains appear to be the new "moist" papers, popular in countries such as Britain and the US where bidets are rare. They can survive five days in water while traditional varieties vanish within minutes.

The heroes are the least glamorous rolls. Sainsbury's recycled paper took four minutes to disintegrate and cheaper supermarket paper only three minutes. The bad news for comfort lovers is that Izal performed impressively, vanishing in 30 minutes.

One paper aimed at children, Kandoo, failed to break down even after five days.

"Toilet paper specifically aimed at kids might be kind to them, but could be putting real strain on your pipe work and drains," Mr McLaughlin said.

The new toilet papers causing the problem are the latest in a line of changes often pioneered by royalty — perhaps because of the historic importance of the throne.

The first toilet paper was produced by the Bureau of Imperial Supplies in China, which made 720,000 sheets measuring 2ft by 3ft, for the emperor, in AD1391. Henry VIII employed a "Groom of the Stool" to ensure "the house of easement be sweet and clear" by cleaning the monarch's behind with his hand.

For humbler classes, newspapers provided a rougher alternative. Old Farmer's Almanac was sold with a hole in the corner to be hung in the privy.

The first factory-produced paper was produced by Joseph Cayetty of New York in 1857. An Englishman, Walter Alcock, had the bright idea to put it on rolls in 1879. Perforations appeared in the late Victorian Age and softer, two-ply paper was introduced in 1942. The Second World War also saw the first novelty papers, bearing pictures of Hitler.

Clues to the House of Windsor's current preferences can be found in the list of Royal Warrant holders. Kimberly Clark, makers of Andrex, have the discreet legend: "Manufacturers of disposable tissues."

DISPERSAL TIME

Sainsbury's low price (3 minutes)
Sainsbury's recycled 4 minutes
Andrex regular (peach) 6 minutes
Velvet Quilted 15 minutes
Charmin Comfort 18 minutes
Andrex aloe vera 26 minutes
Izal Medicated 30 minutes
Newspaper 60 minutes
Andrex moist wipes 5 days
Kandoo children's moist wipes 5 days

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:38 PM

I suppose that there's the problem that those that disintegrate faster might also be the ones that fall apart in use with rather unpleasant results. I've had that happen with one of the 'recycled' types. I always wondered about those Kandoo sheets - they look too solid to disintegrate fast, although they do the job well (experience with my young grandson)

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:43 PM

Corn cobs work well. And then you toss them in the compost heap.

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:46 PM

And with all the corn on this site how could you ever run short?

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:05 PM

I approach this thread with caution, because it is serious business to deal with this issue--an issue that should not be taken lightly. True, the wags and wits will have their day(s), but I think a question of this nature demands a good answer. It's elementary.

1) Use the paper that breaks down most quickly, because no one wipes their for three or four minutes anyway.

2) Keep your nails trimmed or you could go right through the paper in a trice. If you need to have long nails, ask a good friend to be your 'groom of the stool'. It would not be asking too much for that friend to warm his or her hand first. (In for a penny, in for a pound.)

3) If you take the suggestion in #2, be sure to say thank you.

4) If you ignore #3, you are a cad, and you deserve to have your finger(s) go through the paper.

5) This is a good reason to wear clean underwear, because if you and your friend ever have a falling out, you would not want him/her saying things about your personal cleanliness.

That's my thought on the matter. I hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:08 PM

"1) Use the paper that breaks down most quickly, because no one wipes their [????] for three or four minutes anyway."

The missing noun after the possessive pronoun is missing because I want it missing. It was not a confusion of there and their although there works OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Blowzabella
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:16 PM

As someone wo is not on mains drainage, but on a VERY old septic tank, (shared by two houses) I have good reason to appreciate the timescales given in this thread...and will pass on to my neighbours

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:39 PM

Word of warning, through personal experience,DO NOT PUT BABY WIPES DOWN THE LOO, we stopped using them over THREE MONTHS AGO and had the drains backed up TWO DAYS ago, and when I rodded the drains there they were still intact.

Johnsons baby wipes must hold the record so far for non disintigration.

BTW, we used them for Danny our little boy, NOT US.


whb

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:52 PM

LOL, Willy......I have NEVER put baby wipes down the bog...

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:01 PM

Toilet paper exists for one reason and one reason only...it's for the Andrex puppy to play with! Use a sponge on a stick...:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:05 PM

A rounded stick, just in case.

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:23 PM

James Bond Toilet Paper - available in 8 grades..

007

006

005

004

003

002

001




and.....






Gold Finger!

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:28 PM

Lol!

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:46 PM

Charles Bronson toilet paper... It's rough and tough and doesn't take shit off anybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:12 PM

TP used to be made of old growth timber, like grocery bags, but is getting less & less sturdy here...meaning it is difficult to do a good wipe job without tearing. I guess this can be both bad & good, as the cheaper, flimsy stuff dissolves faster in the system.....but tedious to deal with. I thought I had discovered a good idea by wiping, then using part of a moistened *premium* brand of paper towel (Viva, in the US)..but now it seems THAT is not recommended and is a problem for the drainage system.(I have not had an in-house plumbing problem, but try to be reasonable about the problem.)

I am thinking that the solution 'may' be keep using my system, but to keep a covered can with plastic bag, much like we used to do for diapers, for the used VERY excellent Viva paper towels. If this country had adopted bidéts early on, this whole thing might be easier...

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:26 AM

It might, esp when you can't #1 w/o a bit of #2 at the same time.....I do tend to go thru a LOT of bog roll here....I know, too much info....LOL.....I buy Charmin Ultra with aloe and Vit E...is it bad for the city system? (Prob not as bad as the Lilac roots that invaded us last time.....)

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 04:17 AM

Sorcha - is there much point havibg vitamins in your toilet paper? Does it work by skin absorption and if so how long do you have to wipe for?

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 04:28 AM

Thats a good question guest, it amazes me when you see shampoo advertised with "Fortified with Vitamins" or some such crap, my ex girlfrend once spent £10 on a bottle of shampoo!
I use the cheap stuff from Kwick Save, at 35p a bottle.

Expensive shampoo is a total bloody rip off, and a big scam.

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: GUEST,Mingulay
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 11:49 AM

Sorcha - uuurrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!

As far as my own arrangements are concerned I go for softness and durability. Disposal is not a problem as I have to use a Porta-Potti which is emptied into a main sewer, thus no cloggage. In terms of quantity, 12 sheets should suffice, 4 up/4 down/4 to polish.

In terms of enriched products I prefer Eau de Canal. I tried toilet water behind the ears a couple of times but the seat kept falling on my head.

jOhn, washing up liquid works as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 12:35 PM

Mingulay, I just fell of my seat through laughing so much, just what I needed. A tonic

Thanks

whb

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 12:37 AM

When I was in submarines toilets could have been called hazardous.

On the older diesal electric boats inside each 'head' there were instruction on how to operate the flush. This consisted of opening and closing a series of valves in a particular order so that the with the lid down the contents of the loo could be flushed directly to sea.

Woe betide the poor sod who was new to boats and had not operated submarine heads before. Grinning matelots would gather nearby and listen to the valves being operated and wait to see if there was a dull thud, a back rush of air and a cry of 'Oh shit' as the contents blew back and decorated the happless flusher.

On nuclear boats there were was a very large tank which held the so called 'slop, drain and sewage'. These were regulary blown overboard prior to diving and when at periscope depth if operational circumstances allowed.

They were blown using a high pressure air blow into the tank forcing the contents through a one way valve to sea. Trouble was once the operation was complete you had a tank full of compressed air mixed with the any stuff left over from blowing. So the only recourse was to bleed the air back into the boat, and it always seemed to be at times when a meal was due to be served. An aerosol of human nature.

BTW the tanks had what were called **** mixers to make sure solids (i.e.paper were well broken down so they would not clog valves.

Once we were on the surface in a heavy beam sea proceeding to our diving area. The OOW on the fin asked permission to blow shit before rigging for diving. The captain said it was OK but was a change of direction required? The OOW blithley said no. The captain asked again, again the OOW said it was not needed. At this point the more experienced lookout quietly slid below the fin combing.

The OOW ordered the blow, at that point the boat rolled in a heavy swell causing the pooh tank vent hole which was normally below the waterline to be pointing upwards and windwards. A three inch high pressure bore of mixed pooh, pee and other nasties shot out to windward, the strong winds then did their work dispersing it backwards over the fin covering the OOW who only realised his error too late.

On coming below to clean up the skipper just calmly said to the rather maloderous officer that 'the weather was turning rather shitty'

There was no 'Groom of the Stool' for the captain either.

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: GUEST,Derek
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 10:31 AM

Pleasure reading the threads on the subject. It was a scientific experiment and results were quite interesting.
There's a photo of me testing the dispersion of a paper in water.

I'm a chemist and I did wonder myself about added vitamins in toilet paper. I don't know the reason but it may be a genuine one. Vitamin E is an antioxidant - often found in toiletries and creams for the skin. But why in toilet paper? Possibly to inhibit reabsorption of toxic waste products? or to oxidise toxic waste products into something less toxic.

http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=pbo&Number=617652&p
age=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&part=all

Derek Robson
Advantica Limited
Loughborough

Subject: RE: BS: Where else could it be put...
From: GUEST,Derek
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 10:35 AM

Sorry, meant to say - or to convert toxic waste products into something less toxic.