For those who hate RAP!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Auggie
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 07:01 PM

Why must we "keep an open mind"?

Rap isn't anything new, not in 2005. Why are we not allowed to form an opinion about something based on what we already know. Must we each be like the government and set up our own blue ribbon extended study panel before we are allowed to discriminate between what we enjoy and what we don't?

If Rap is really that great and I miss it because my "mind is closed", what the hell is it to you? It's my loss. If anything, it's your gain because old farts like us won't drive up the price of live performances by buying up all the good seats at ridiculously inflated prices (tried buying Paul Simon or Paul McCartney tickets lately?).

I'll admit I don't know everything about rap. I don't know everything about George Bush or Tony Blair either, but I've heard enough of all three to know what I think of them.

Like the optimistic little girl confronted with the huge pile of horse manure, there may indeed be a pony in there somewhere, but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend much of my remaining free time exploring either situation.

I hope you enjoy riding your horse. Please don't be offended if some of us would rather walk.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 05:09 PM

hey Mooh..

that fair enough..

at least you're keeping an open mind..

and maybe prepared for the possibility
you may one day
be surprised to find yourself liking something
you so far have a personal aversion to..

that all anyone can ask of anyone really..


"and read these sort of discussions with amusement"

..and keeping your sense of humour in these situations
is paramount..

nice one..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Mooh
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 04:52 PM

I heartily dislike rap, do everything possible to avoid it, and read these sort of discussions with amusement. Every so often some rap comes my way via a compilation cd or a referral by someone promoting it as "good" rap. Nothing has changed my mind yet...but never say never I guess. In the meantime I'm not required to acquire a taste for rap any more than I'm required to acquire a taste for squash, which I also heartily dislike.

If the foregoing makes me a dinosaur, that's fine, there aren't many of us left. Maybe we need a union.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 03:52 PM

"If you want to discuss staying power, consider Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin etc. Can you vision any rap that will last 200 years? I sure as hell can't"

So your argument is that there are no rap artists that exist today that will be remembered in 200 years time, therefore rap is rubbish?
well that is a pathetic argument.
just because something does not have staying power, does not mean it is not groundbreaking and good.

And anyway, artists like Run DMC etc WILL be remembered in 200 years time. Music is passed down through generation to generation and so long as people introduce their kids to the music they like, artists can now stay around forever.
This is one of the beauties of music

For gods sake, just look at how many teenagers nowadays are turning back to Led Zeppelin and real artists from over 40 years ago, not to mention young people who are fans of folk and classical music.
Do you really think in 200 years time there will not be rap artists, and fans of the great rap artists of our generation? if so i feel sorry for you, for their music has had a huge impact on the world and will continue to do so, just as Led Zeppelin will continue to do so, just as folk music will continue to do so.

Like I said, you have probably heard 3 songs from Eminem and judge all rap by that. If this is the case, your argument did not deserve a reply in the first place.

Do not think that just because you are not a fan of rap music, that there are not grounbreaking and great artists of the genre out there, all of which you will never find because you are all too narrow minded and stereotypical of the entire genre.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 01:59 PM

Just for the record, I stand by my remarks. Please note I used a qualifier, I never said that anyone who says they hate rap is a racist.

But there is a rather short step between xenophobia and racism.

Think about it.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 12:25 PM

"If you want to discuss staying power, consider Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin etc. Can you vision any rap that will last 200 years? I sure as hell can't."

though it does help maintain the longterm profile of old dead classical composers

if they have an institutionalized wealthy power elite
with a vested interest in keeping such music and names
prominent in contemporary and future'high-brow' culture.. or what ?

.."staying power"..
will always have more to do with power base and cultural motive
of a dominant critical orthodox elite
than any 'intrinsic quality' in
the type of music under discussion [or dismissal]

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 12:22 PM

Kendall,

In 200 years I will come back in my new reincarnated self with my memory of previous lives intact. Then I'll telepathically connect with you and share some raps.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 12:05 PM

If you want to discuss staying power, consider Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin etc. Can you vision any rap that will last 200 years? I sure as hell can't.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Folk in the corner
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:50 AM

" How many rap songs do You remember from, say, 1990, or even 2004? Plenty of people still listen to rock music from 30 years ago and can still sing/quote lyrics. And please, don't compare Ms Dynamite - who sang a song with her OWN NAME in it - to Aretha Franklin. Arrogance or what? "

Bloke building barricaded comfort zone in the corner... or what ?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:36 AM

What?

Who?

What?

Who pompous self important ****?

Clarification urgently required!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:32 AM

most of you say that all rap music is homophobic, pro -violence, etc etc. Shows how VERY little you know. in fact in most cases it is completely the opposite, public enemy wrote for the majority of songs about peace and the stupidity of killing others, along with NWA, and many other rap / hip-hop artists who were and still are great musicians and writers.

I dont see how any of you can say "rap is rubbish" considerring how very little you know of the institution. You all probably heard 3 songs by Eminem, and use that to judge the whole of rap. Bollocks.

and dont try and compare rap artists to others, like aretha franklin for example... they are totally different styles! its like saying whats better.. chicken or turkey? everyone has a different opinion.

There are a few rap artists, who were and always will be great, and nothing any of you say can change that fact.
If you actually knew anything of the real artists, such as Run DMC, Public Enemy, etc, you may see that you are wrong.

What we have today is people who are rubbish and give rap a bad name and write crap lyrics, such as busta rhymes and all that rubbish.
and the proof they are spoiling it for the others is the narrow minded views on this thread.
People like this are to real rap music what westlife are to real rock music - a load of rubbish. people who dont write their own songs or do anything except get up there and mime, etc.

You should try researching the topic before commenting, as quotes like "all rap is rubbish" is a load of rubbish itself

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:31 AM

DJ SPELLCHECK REMIX VERSION:

Arrogant Ignorance or what ?..?????

Out of touch with a vital and fertile world of fresh musical creativity and new traditions for the future or what ?


Fossilised petrified folk or what ?


Pompous self important **** or what ?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Jukebox in the corner
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:30 AM

Arrogant Ignorance or what ?..?????

Out of touch with a vital and fertile world of fresh musical creativity and new traditions formthe future or what ?


Fossilised petfified folk or what ?


Pompous self important **** or what ?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:16 AM

I have no fondness for gangsta rap with its focus on bling bling, sex, violence, disrespect for women, and homophophic lyrics.

But gangsta rap is not all rap and to DISrespect and DISregard an entire genre of music is going MUCH too far.

As to whether people are still singing and quoting rap music from the 1980s on- Yes indeed...

To cite one example: Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five's 1982 hit "The Message" is usually ranked as the Number 1 Rap song to date. Here is the first verse & the chorus:

Broken glass everywhere
People pissing on the stairs, you know they just
Don't care
I can't take the smell, I can't take the noise
Got no money to move out, I guess I got no choice
Rats in the front room, roaches in the back
Junkie's in the alley with a baseball bat
I tried to get away, but I couldn't get far
Cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car

Chorus:
Don't push me, cause I'm close to the edge
I'm trying not to loose my head
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder
How I keep from going under

end of quote

Most here probably can't relate, but since we haven't yet reached a time of heaven on earth or anything near to it, lots elsewhere can.

As to music [and other things} I say "Different strokes for different folks."

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 10:04 AM

Good to see a lively debate - Jacqui seems to sum it up. Almost no rap music is memorable, apart perhaps from its gruesome attitude to women. How many rap songs do You remember from, say, 1990, or even 2004? Plenty of people still listen to rock music from 30 years ago and can still sing/quote lyrics. And please, don't compare Ms Dynamite - who sang a song with her OWN NAME in it - to Aretha Franklin. Arrogance or what?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 10:03 AM

Rap is Rubbish.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:00 AM

you do understand that the majority of old delta blues music that refers to "my baby" or "big man" or "the boss" is usually a reference to god?
eg. "my baby done me wrong" = god has done me wrong. but they couldnt say it was god or their bosses who forced them to work in the cotton fields, as they would have been killed, so they changed it to their spouse as a metaphor.

Also, for most of the rest of you, music is universal, people have a right to like what they want, they dont just have to like folk and listen only to folk. music is supposed to unite us not make us have petty arguments!

and nobody can say "rap is rubbish" because there are several rap artists that were pioneers and geniuses of their art, i speak of Run-DMC, Public Enemy and Dr.Dre - most of whom sing about love and peace.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: PennyBlack
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 07:43 AM

Hey we put the "C" back in rap!

PB

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Grab
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 09:24 PM

I'd refer the Bloke in the Corner to any blues or folk collection for attitude to women. The number of songs involving women and/or their lovers killed for being unfaithful is immense, so go figure. You want a positive example in rap, dwditty gave you an example of K-OS. Over in the UK, there's Ms Dynamite who's very pop but a good positive image.

FWIW, almost *everything* you'll hear on the radio is crap. How much good folk or blues did you hear on the radio last week? If you heard any, it'd be something that'd only got anywhere because there's a cute girl singing. Why do you think rap is any different?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 08:56 PM

yeah i hate sprouts too..
my wife loves 'em..

the compromise just added another 5 mins to overall cooking time
of xmas dinner
while sprouts were boiled separately from all other vegetable..


but yes i gotta face up to admit

I AM A SPROUTIST..

sorry..

and last night new years revellers were dancing enthusiastically
to top hip hop/rap pop tunes on the juke box
in the pub we all normally go to local live folk & country blues session..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 07:19 PM

I dunno, do you hold your crotch while reading Tolstoy? It proves nothing, but I'm just curious..........

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:54 PM

I also like good books such as WAR AND PEACE, but I don't like comic books. Does that make me an old fool?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:33 PM

Willie-o, your logic is flawed. I have also heard a hundred people pronounce they 'hate rap'. Guess what, it's their sorry way of bringing 'current' their traditional sentence which was (stop me if you've heard this before) "I like all kinds of music except acid rock". They're generally tuneless, clueless and are really trying to say they're not really into music and they like lite pop. Pity them, but classify them racists? Good grief, escape from your PC world before it's too late!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:20 PM

Jacqui! You've just given me an idea for pepping up my performances! ROFL!!
S:0)
PS, sorry you and Kendall didn't get to G'boro on NYE. Hope you make it next time you're back here.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:16 PM

It will be interesting to see how much of the rap music is still around and being revived in, say, twenty years from now. How much of it will be carried down over one hundred years? Basically, that seems to be the province of folk and classical music. Maybe that is the real test of a style.

I'm way over forty and I have listened to some rap music, but it just doesn't really interest me. I am going to sound like a complete wrinkly here, but why do these guys seem to have to hold on to their crotches while performing?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:14 PM

And for the record, and in keeping with my views on all kinds of music, I like some of it, I don't like some of it. BTW I'm 57, mentally competent, in full-time employment, physically fit and my plumbing works fine.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:10 PM

Pointless arguments, all of them. It's like sprouts, you like them or you don't - either way doesn't make you a racist/idiot/worthless person. We can't all be the same - accept it and get a life.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 04:59 PM

Monsieur Mojo says:
"Most the so-called "folkies" around here are into their special brand of museum music as a hobby."

How do you define a "so-called 'folkie'" as distinct from any other kind of folkie?

What's wrong with music being old - perhaps the same as being over 40?

When does a good song (subjective definition of course) become "museum music"?

When does a music genre (say RAP) become music for "folkies" and how long will it take for it to become "museum music"?

When will Mojo realise that the above line actually defines him as a bigot as much as other people's statements about black artists are supposed to reveal them as racists (according to some.)

Frank

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 04:50 PM

Seems to me that this discussion is divided into two kinds of people. Those who believe that everyone is entitled to like or dislike whatever they like or dislike and those who think that anyone who disagrees with them has to be abused. It's a pity that most of the latter kind are those who like RAP.

Frank

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: MurkeyChris
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 04:11 PM

Okay off the top of my head Macy Gray, Lauryn Hill and Ms Dynamite are three exceptional 'today black artists' artists using real instrumentation.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 03:49 PM

As it happens I really enjoy loads of types of music. In my car I've currently got Silly Wizard, Pearl Jam, Countin' Crows and a Rock compilation - Iron Maiden, Metallica, Korn etc. I'm no Luddite folkie, just an ordinary bloke sad at the way so much music is going. So name me a 'today' black artist who can sing - not shout or scream gibberish - and/or play an instrument - who is not singing songs composed by computer. Tell me any of them who can compare to Ray Charles, or Aretha FRanklin for musicality!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Monsieur Mojo
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 03:34 PM

And I would like to add that Public Enemy & especially NWA's 'Straight Outta Compton' albums hit me harder and deeper than any Dylan and Dylan wannabe dilletantes' music ever did.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Monsieur Mojo
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 02:48 PM

"...and not many of the highly dubious intolerant supremacist characters who take pround refuge in their version of its shadily retrogressive traditionalist agenda and inward looking social sub-culture..."

You go punkfolkrocker! You nailed a whole lot of "folk" around here with that one!

The best of rap, hip hop, dub, etc. is excellent poetry, spoken word, and done in a plainsong/chant sort of riffing way I just love. The electronic wizardry of it is also very cool, IMNSHO.

Most the so-called "folkies" around here are into their special brand of museum music as a hobby.

Rap, hip hop, dub, etc. is the real deal for livin' today.

And who can't love the intensely creative and playful sorts of stuff from the likes of Toronto's Moxy Früvous, who turn all the racist stereotyping on it's head?

I'm still trying to get my head around that comment about no decent black artists today...whew, that is some pig fuckin' ignorance.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 02:07 PM

Woah, Willie, don't brand me a racist - I'm the very opposite. In my book a man or woman is judged by what they do, not what they look like. I still say there's very little good black music about at the minute. Look at my post where I said it and read about the black artists & music genres which I feel have given us so much. I don't think we're getting much out of black music today. My opinion of the music, NOT of the skin colour.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Willie-O
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 01:58 PM

Jeez, this is still going on.

My point was, why is it so common that this particular genre gets singled out in this kind of way, so we're not surprised to see this thread title even though dwditty was saying something positive?

Ever seen an MC thread entitled "For those who hate bluegrass"?

So I stand by my opinion that for some, expression of this sentiment can be a form of ill-concealed racism. (Bloke In The Corner, yours is not very ill-concealed, say, are there "any good white artists" today?)   

At the same time, I am sympathetic to the observation that "I don't like it because I don't like it." Matter of fact I feel that way myself. But since I don't listen to it, I can't say I've done any statistical studies that prove that "most of it is vile" etc. etc.

John In Kansas, always interesting to hear from you--I had never heard that the roots went back that far. The first rap I ever heard, back in the old anarchist commune days, was a group called "The Last Poets" who were very political and cool, I think they started in the late 60's.

Most of us are well north of 40, so tossing that out as if it meant something is kind of pointless. (A few years ago someone did a survey and found the average Mudcatter that responded was 54 or so.)

Yeah, peace, eh.

W-O

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 01:30 PM

It seems to me that too many people are lumping all of the sub-types of rap into one generic genre [or into one large garbage bag] disregarding any differences between them, probably because they don't know the genre well if at all.

Also, it seems to me that too many people are judging rap using aesthetic standards for European/Western music that probably aren't applicable to this genre.

I'm just sayin...it may not be the wisest thing to judge what you don't know.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 11:18 AM

Thanks Frank. All I did was state an opinion, I did not judge anyone else's taste, or the lack of it.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 03:10 AM

When you get really old and wise, like me. You will realise Winnie the Pooh had it about right when he said , Everybody's all right...really.

Rap is fine for everybody who likes it. it only upsets me when i am in a traffic queue and they drive up behind me and ruin my contepmplation and chanting OM. Once your aura of calm is gone - everythings buggered.

that was a nice song Randy Newman did about Rap -forgotten the name of it - the something man and little something - he mentioned Run DMC in the lyrics. Another nice thing to come out of Rap is the ranting style poets like nic Toczek of Bradford, who is full of wisdom.

Wishing you all a happy and tolerant new year......

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 02:49 AM

ummm...errrr, well Rory B gets it. And Willie-o, too. I was just trying to point out that I had recently been turned on to a Rap CD that I found utterly enjoyable. Just about everyone else has painted all of Rap with the same broad brush, which seems a terribly unenlightened approach to rap, and the world in general.

Ah, well. I think I will go of an try to learn one of the songs and fit it to my style. Maybe the one called Hallelujah.

dw

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 02:47 AM

EagleWing ....

what..!!!!??????

what the f*ck are some of you people on..


..or on about..???


i'm one of the good guys..



1'm 46 years old.

very puzzeled whats going on between the ears of some of you befuddled 'liberal' folkies

very sad ..

and do you know what ...


i got a better life to lead than caring about what

ignorance and stupidity some of you are passsing on

to your children in the next musical generation..

ok.. i admit it


it makes me very sad..


..and yes.. guess what.. you are RACIST by default..

get to grips with it and admit it to yourself..


you'll feel a whole lot more comfortable in your white skin..

and your blah blah blah..

f*ck it i'm bored with the half wit conservative stupidity of some
of you FOLKS..

dawn is breaking.

birds are singing..

life is beautiful..

and i got a wife who needs seeing to..


and no i aint gonna storm off in a hissy elton john fit..

because i want to live in a 2005 where some of you backwards backwoods folk
either come to your senses
or no longer blah blah blah....

happy new year...

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: EagleWing
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 08:04 PM

I hate RAP. I don't hate it because of racial discrimination as some one has suggested (why does someone always have to play that stupid card?) I don't hate it only because most of what I have heard is foul and hate laden. I don't even hate it because what I have heard of it is musicless and doggerel. I hate it because I hate it! Those who take a different view have already labelled me, along with Kendall as "..sounds like you're well over 40 and down to your last failing brain cell". Yes, I admit to being over 40 but I can assure punkfolkrocker that Kendall's mind is sharp and his musicianship is unquestionable - my own brain still functions well. Off course, if anyone who disagrees with punkfolkrocker has to be treated to the kind of insults with which he treats those who don't like Rap as well as those who are over 40, it doesn't really say much for either his intelligence or his tolerance.

Obviously, there are a lot of people here who don't hate rap. That's great. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally I can't stand Sinatra, Dean Martin or any of the "rat pack". It's for different reasons - and just as prejudiced, no doubt. We don't actually need to analyse why we don't like a particular music, smell, food etc. We just have opinions and those who dislike a particular kind of music have as much right to their opinions as anyone else.

So, punkthingie and others, please allow people their opinions about music and continue to air your opinions about music - not about people you disagree with.

Frank

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Auggie
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 06:33 PM

Sorry. That last post was me.
Rap has a tendancy to do that to many of us (make us loose our cookies).

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 06:31 PM

One of the common lines of thought that runs through way too many Mudcat discussions (especially below the line) has been reintroduced again here, this time by Sidewinder.
He is evidently allowed to express his opinion, but those who disagree are immediately deprived of theirs lest they be guilty of 'oppression and cernsorship'.
If you think rap has something to offer that's great. My teenage and twenty something kids would agree with you, and I value their opinions. But, don't get on here and whine, moan and play victim if the rest of us fail to appreciate your point of view.
As to your assertion that "there is something positive to be gained from every new cultural development", well, I don't know what planet you're living on but the list of cultural developments,just in my lifetime, with no positive aspects is virtually endless (think crack cocaine, high rise housing projects,freeing the people of Viet Nam/Iraq,etc.,etc.,etc.).

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 04:41 PM

You folks don't even know me!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Rory B
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 04:30 PM

Wow...a lot of interesting comments both positive and negative. I hope this discussion will inspire at least a few of you to actually listen to some of the "good" rap. My daughter told me that rap actually stands for Rythym And Poetry. It was shortly after learning that from her that my SOCAN magazine arrived. They interviewed the Rapper that DW mentioned at the start of this thread. K-OS. I immediately went out and bought his CD, Joyful Rebellion, because I liked what he had to say about the direction that RAP had taken and how he felt it had taken a wrong turn driven by the recording companies desire to make money etc. He is an extremely talented artist. The entire CD is a constant surprise that takes many musical directions. It is wonderful. It was also a great reminder for me that keeping an open mind can bring you wonderful discoveries you might have missed!! ( I am now also a cool mom for buying a rap cd LOL)
Happy New Year to all and thank you DW !

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 03:17 PM

"(I've seen endless fads in music come and go)."

me too.. [ i'm only a few music fads younger than you ]

ok.. rap is not my favourite music..

but the good rap/hip hop music that i love
and new suff i still occasionally hear..

can argueably be traced back in its musical expression
to the likes of Cab Calloway and his era and back beyond..

so i think its below the intelligence of the 'folk community'
to be so ignorantly dismissive of a very popular
and influential genre of contemporary music art..



happy new year..
and probably my last message this year
before me and the mrs go out to the pub
and wassail ourselves into a right discgracefull state
to see in the new year..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 03:10 PM

A capella stuff is cool, of course, no problems- but it never was main stream music. And which of today's black artists - other than those who have been around for many years - actually contribute something positive and original to music in general?
You'll have realised already that I have NO prejudice against black music in general - 60s Motown, blues, jazz, Leadbelly, Michael Jackson except when he thinks he's Jesus in that awful video. But WHY must MOST black music nowadays be filled with hate, attitude or subjugation of women, and - other than the computer-written songs for women singers which are stunning in their unending banality- be utterly devoid of musicality, melody and rhythm- surely the basis of music?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 03:04 PM

It seems to me that we human beings have fallen into a deadly trap of worshipping change for changes sake. Please remember, though, that "any change increases entropy (unavailable energy). Therefore, any change that produces no net positive good is invariably harmful." (Gene Wolfe - another science fiction writer). It seems to me that popular music is undergoing a process of decay and degeneration - with each successive style or genera (OK, fad!)being more empty and vacuous than the last - turning into meaningless noise, that is. Just as marketing men have discovered that they can sell bottled water (and will soon be selling bottled air, no doubt) they have also discovered that they can sell contentless canned noise. I may be an old fogey, in my 50s, but it could also be argued that I have lived long enough to have a proper perspective on this (I've seen endless fads in music come and go).

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 03:01 PM

..and as for

"There are simply NO good black artists around now".....

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 02:59 PM

[old prejudiced ???]Bloke in the corner..

actually a reasonable point of view
re the worst of
commercialized negative gangsta rap..

,,but c'mon...

"Can any of them actually play an instrument?"

is that really still such a serious issue or crime

in a music culture that cherishes unacompanied accapella solo singers

..and encourages the the public performance
of even the most simplistic 'music by numbers'
3 open-chord stilted guitar fingerpicking
faltering vocals trad song murderers..???