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Erik Darling's history with the Weavers

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thespionage 20 Jan 05 - 01:21 PM
dick greenhaus 20 Jan 05 - 01:23 PM
thespionage 20 Jan 05 - 01:27 PM
Dreaded Thumbpick 20 Jan 05 - 01:49 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Jan 05 - 01:56 PM
thespionage 20 Jan 05 - 03:38 PM
PoppaGator 20 Jan 05 - 05:05 PM
thespionage 20 Jan 05 - 05:20 PM
PoppaGator 20 Jan 05 - 05:39 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Jan 05 - 05:44 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Jan 05 - 05:51 PM
thespionage 20 Jan 05 - 06:55 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 20 Jan 05 - 07:01 PM
thespionage 20 Jan 05 - 07:32 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Jan 05 - 07:37 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 20 Jan 05 - 07:41 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 20 Jan 05 - 07:51 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 20 Jan 05 - 08:24 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 20 Jan 05 - 09:03 PM
thespionage 20 Jan 05 - 09:10 PM
thespionage 20 Jan 05 - 09:33 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Jan 05 - 09:51 PM
thespionage 20 Jan 05 - 10:23 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 20 Jan 05 - 10:45 PM
thespionage 21 Jan 05 - 01:12 AM
thespionage 21 Jan 05 - 02:29 AM
Dreaded Thumbpick 21 Jan 05 - 09:44 AM
Bill Hahn//\\ 21 Jan 05 - 06:05 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 21 Jan 05 - 07:49 PM
cobber 21 Jan 05 - 08:33 PM
thespionage 22 Jan 05 - 12:43 AM
GUEST,banjopicker 27 Nov 11 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,mando-player-91 12 Oct 12 - 09:56 PM
Leadfingers 13 Oct 12 - 06:01 AM
John on the Sunset Coast 13 Oct 12 - 07:35 PM
Stringsinger 14 Oct 12 - 11:41 AM
Stringsinger 14 Oct 12 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,mando-player-91 14 Oct 12 - 11:49 AM
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Subject: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 01:21 PM

Did Erik Darling replace Pete Seeger in the Weavers? I have conflicting information. Cary Ginell says that he did replace Pete in the book that accompanies the compilation "Washington Square Memoirs"; the track listing for "The Greatest Songs of Woody Guthrie" cites that Erik Darling played *with* Pete Seeger, Lee Hays, Fred Hellerman and Ronnie Gilbert on "The Sinking of the Reuben James" and "Jackhammer John."

In "Wasn't That a Time," the documentary of the Weavers' reunion in 1980 doesn't mention Erik Darling at all, but that isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

What's the deal?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 01:23 PM

Erik replaced Pete, and was later in turn replaced by Frank Hamilton.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 01:27 PM

Thanks. When did that happen?

Russ
Practitioner of Thespionage and Folk Music


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: Dreaded Thumbpick
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 01:49 PM

Frank Hamilton, in turn, was replaced by Bernie Krauss


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 01:56 PM

...and Erik Darling returned to join Pete, Ronnie Gilbert & Fred Hellerman at a concert in Toronto recently.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 03:38 PM

That's awesome! Did Tao Rodriguez-Seeger perform with Pete in Toronto?

PS - When did all this switching around happen? "Wasn't That a Time!" depicts it as though they just quite after being blacklisted for a time.

Russ
Practitioner of Thespionage and Folk Music


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 05:05 PM

Russ, cool handle! Welcome to Mudcat.

What *is* "thespionage"? Really sneaky stage acting?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 05:20 PM

Haha thanks for your welcome.

Thespionage is a word I formed about five years ago when a bunch of my actor friends formed a fictitious group of superheroes. If you'd really like to see a Web site designed by a 13-year-old, I'll send you the link. It's funny, but primitive.

Russ
Practitioner of Thespionage
(Btw, what *is* a handle? Is that like a signature?)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 05:39 PM

"Handle" = "screen name" = "on-line psuedonym."

You've got one, and so do I.

Why not *post* the link to your silly kid-stuff website? We won't laugh...

Check that -- we *will* laugh; at least I hope so. But we won't hold it against you, won't ridicule you. We all were young once, although it's a pretty distant memory for some of us.

If you can't make the "blickifier" work, just type or paste the URL into your next post. But, "Make a link ('blue clicky')" isn't really all that difficult. Just be sure to paste the *complete* URL (including "http" etc.) into the designated field.

If you'd rather not publish your site so openly, could you reveal it to *me* please? Just click "PM" next to my name to send a Personal Message. I'm dying to learn all about thespionage!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 05:44 PM

Pete left the group in 1958.   Erik, who was with the Tarriers at the time, joined the group.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 05:51 PM

...oops, I hit send too soon.

Erik Darling left in 1961 (and would form the Rooftop Singers) and Frank Hamilton came on and stayed with the group until 1963. When he left, Bernie Krauss joined to stay with them through their final year. Vanguard issued a recording of their 1964 Carneigie Hall concert which featuerd all the players - Seeger, Darling, Hamilton, Krauss with Gilbert, Hellerman and Hays.

I can't remember if the film mentioned it, but the Weaver's first disbanded at the end of 1952 when their bookings dried up because of the Red Scare.   Harold Leventhal got them back together for a Christmas concert at Carnegie in 1955.    The 1980 concert was one of a handful of shows that the quartet did after the shows that were captured in the film. The final appearance of all the original members was at the Clearwater Festival. I was at that show and it was a very informal event with people like Holly Near joining the group onstage. Lee Hays died a few months later.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 06:55 PM

Thanks for the explanation.

The second part you have confused me a little though. The film does mention that the Red Scare did briefly split them up, but the documentary is *about* the 1980 Carnegie Hall appearance and Harold Leventhal explicitly states the New York performance will be the only one (of course I'm guessing that there were a few at Carnegie).

I know how laid-back Clearwater can be. I have been going since before I can remember (the first time I was on the ship I was so young that I was *allowed* to make noise during the moment of silence) and that must have still been amazing to see the original Weavers perform.

I go to college right near where Pete lives and someone I met was trying to coerce me into finding out Pete's address and knocking on his door, like the infamous Bob Dylan-Woody Guthrie interchange.

Thanks again for your information!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 07:01 PM

In fact there were 2. Friday evening and Saturday evening. The best piecews of the two were used for the film.

It was truly a moving evening and the tickets were sold out within 4 hrs of being offered for sale in one of the smallest ads you can get in the NY Times.

In fact, The Weavers, did the second half of the concert. Pete Seeger did the first half and then came what everyone was waiting for.

A particular moment between Lee and Ronnie moved me to tears.   I don't recall if it is in the film---quite subtle and quick. But it told the whole story of the relationships of the entire group.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 07:32 PM

I wish they had included that in the film. They should release the footage of the entirety of the concert. Do I hear DVD?

Russ


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 07:37 PM

Yes, the film was about the 1980 Carnegie reunion - but the Weaver's had several "reunions" in their career. The first was at Carnegie on Dec.24 1955 It was billed as their first on-stage appearance in three years "The Weavers - Together Again". The Weavers used that concert to bring the group back together. That concert was a huge success and released on Vanguard Records in 1957 and it has become THE classic Weaver's album.    The next "reunion" was in 1964, also released on Vanguard, and it featured all the members of the Weavers.

The documentary "Wasn't That A Time" really skims over much of this history, because it is incidental to the story it tells so magnificently - the "final" reunion in 1980 of the original members. (I'm not sure if it sold out in 4 hours - the story is that the ad ran on a Sunday and when Leventhal called the box office on Tuesday it was sold out.)      

The relationship had it's rocky moments - Lee Hays was not the easist person to work with. The Clearwater "rehearsal" show (as it was billed) almost did not happen because Lee Hays had promised a local radio station that they could record the show and Fred Hellerman was opposed.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 07:41 PM

4 hrs. My daughter was on the phone for 3 and tried to get us tickets. The line was always busy. She finally got through to the Box Office ( they did not use Ticketron in those days---you got the Carnegie Box Office) and they told her she was lucky since Sat. was gone but there were a few of the most expensive seats (cheap by toray's standards) left.

So--OK--maybe 5 hrs.

In any case---a sellout---and a moving event. I recall a lady about 2 rows in front of us turning to someone in back of her and saying--"..I am seeing them one more time---I can die happy".

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 07:51 PM

By the way---in the film---there is a great moment when the crowd is waiting to go into Carnegie. Many have come from all over the country and the "interviewer" asks them about it and the gets to a little girl---when asked how she felt about this event--her face is a must see---and she say--all scrunched up---"OK I guess".(I paraphrase)

Also, if you look at the film again look for the scene with Ronnie Gilbert walking behing Lee Hays and her arms and face at that point.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 08:24 PM

I'm gonna revive the old thread :What Was Lee Hayes Really Like?"

Art


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 09:03 PM

Strange, that thread about Lee Hayes will not allow me to add to it and/or submit it. There is no window at the end on which to write a message---and no "submit" button.

Sorry, guess I can't do it.

Art


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 09:10 PM

"look for the scene with Ronnie Gilbert walking behing Lee Hays and her arms and face at that point." Could you rephrase that? I don't quite know what you mean.

Russ


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 09:33 PM

And what about the "Greatest Songs of Woody Guthrie" album, on which it says that Erik Darling plays *with* Seeger, Hays, Gilbert and Hellerman. The songs are "The Sinking of the Reuben James" and "Jackhammer John," as I said in the first message. I can hear a bass in "Jackhammer John," which is uncredited if Erik Darling is, in fact, there after Pete Seeger left. As Fred Willard would say, "Wha' happened?"


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 09:51 PM

Thespionage. I belive that cut was from Carnegie Hall '64 - see above.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:23 PM

Ah ha! That does make sense. However, why would the track listing only cite Erik Darling as the sole additional member. I know that Frank Hamilton is a Mudcat user (at least as of '99); perhaps he could answer a question or two.

Russ


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 10:45 PM

Thespionage: I meant it as a surprise to see that seen. The love in her eyes and the gentle touch on the shoulder is one of those wonderful shots one rarely can capture---her true feeling.

I mentioned it to her in a 1996 interview I did with her--her comment was to the effect that it really captured the moment and was glad I noticed it.

As to Lee Hays----there is a wonderful book by Robert Koppelman about him and all the other things he did in his life---Sing Out Warning SIng Out Love--The Writing os Lee Hays.

Lee Hays was a wonderful essayist and short story writer. Also a longtime contributor of mystery tales to Ellery Queen magazine. He won a few awards in that area. He was, as many of you know, also a singer of children's songs and one album featured a young Alan Arkin.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 01:12 AM

Bill, I'm sure it was great to interview Ronnie Gilbert. Thanks for explaining; I'll be sure to look for that scene.

I knew that Lee Hays's verbal talent and wit was boundless and thanks for the info on him too.

Russ
Practitioner of Thespionage and Folk Music


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 02:29 AM

I did a little bit of researched and discovered that the note on the "Greatest Songs of Woody Guthrie" CD is, in fact, incorrect. "The Sinking of the Reuben James" (and signs point in the direction of "Jackhammer John" as well) is from Erik Darling and the Weavers' performance at Carnegie Hall after Pete had left the group.

If you have any more "updates," post them! Thanks.

Russ
Practitioner of Thespionage and Folk Music


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: Dreaded Thumbpick
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:44 AM

thespi,
The bass was undoubtedly Bill Lee's. I never saw a top notch folk group who didn't use Bill Lee if they could. By the way, Bill is Spike Lee's dad.

Wally


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 06:05 PM

If you search on Google you will find that Bill Lee is credited as the Bassist on The Greatest Songs of Woody Guthrie but it does not specifically cite that Reuben James came from that Weavers album. Probably it did. Having both albums I do not see Bill Lee credited (or any other bassist). One can, I feel, assume it was he since he is credited for the entire Greatest Songs --which is probably a bit over the top.

Speaking of Bill Lee. I have a wonderful B/W publicity shot given to me by Carolyn Hester that shows a young Hester along with Dylan and Lee in the shot. Both having appeared on one of her early albums.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 07:49 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: cobber
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 08:33 PM

We had the pleasure of having Ronnie Gilbert tour in Australia a few years back with our own Jusy Small. I saw them twice, once in a small restaurant and once in a concert hall. Fabulous nights.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Erik Darling and the Weavers
From: thespionage
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 12:43 AM

I hadn't known that Bill Lee was Spike Lee's father! Thanks Bill. "Reuben James" did, in fact, come from the Weavers album at Carnegie with Erik as Pete's replacement: the recordings are the same. I did not see Bill Lee as being credited for being the bassist for the entire album, where did you see that? Thanks for the information.

Russ
Practitioner of Thespionage and Folk Music


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Subject: RE: Erik Darling's history with the Weavers
From: GUEST,banjopicker
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 05:40 PM

I have to say the more I listen to it " The Weavers at Carnegie Hall vol 2" is my top favorite after the 1963 concert. Its just a down right fun concert that no offense. I Pete seeger is one of the greatest musicians in the world. but the Carnegie hall concert with erik darling is much more exciting in my opinion with Pete the concerts seemed more serious.


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Subject: RE: Erik Darling's history with the Weavers
From: GUEST,mando-player-91
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 09:56 PM

What dude? are trolling or confused


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Subject: RE: Erik Darling's history with the Weavers
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 06:01 AM

'For One Night Only' - BBC Radio 4 Saturday 13 Oct - All about the 1955 Carnegie Hall concert ! Look on 'Listen Again !


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Subject: RE: Erik Darling's history with the Weavers
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 07:35 PM

Sure am glad I was browsing the 'Cat today. Thanks, Leadfingers, I'm listening the program(me) as I type this. What a joy!


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Subject: RE: Erik Darling's history with the Weavers
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 11:41 AM

Erik mentioned that one of the highlights for him with the Weavers was being able to play "San Francisco Bay Blues" with me. I share in that enthusiasm.

Erik changed the complexion of the Weavers and was a marvelous banjo player.
He was inspired by the "Golden Gate Quartet" and managed to swing all of his
spiritual material, the only time the Weavers every really could swing was with Erik.

Erik devoted a lot of time to absorbing black music.

For my money, outside of the "Bay Blues", his "Train Time" was a classic.


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Subject: RE: Erik Darling's history with the Weavers
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 11:45 AM

Did I mention that Erik was highly musical in everything he did. Bob Gibson, Odetta and others were inspired by his arrangements of "All My Trials, Soon Be Over"
and calypso songs, especially Gibson. He did a lovely version of Big Bill's "In the Evening" way back when at the Henry Street Settlement monthly hoots.


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Subject: RE: Erik Darling's history with the Weavers
From: GUEST,mando-player-91
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 11:49 AM

Hey frank glad to see you posting again hope all is well
-Shep


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