Tech: measuring strings

Subject: Tech: measuring strings
From: Kaleea
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 01:48 AM

I've been trying to find replacement strings for my Celtic Harp, and was told to measure the individual string with a micrometer. (My harp did not come with a chart with all the string gauges.) The micrometers cost over $100, so I won't be getting one. Does anyone know of a less expensive and easier way to accomplish this? Thanks!

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: El Dano
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 02:04 AM

Borrowing a micrometer would be cheaper and using a vernier gauge would be easier

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Kaleea
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 02:14 AM

I don't know who I could borrow one from.

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Peace
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 02:15 AM

Any engineering school near you would have one as would any physics department.

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: El Dano
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 03:15 AM

Kaleea
Would this be a good place to ask
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/harplist/join
I spotted it when trawling through some old threads looking for links that people have posted to string length calculators in the past

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 03:20 AM

Lee Valley has a good deal on a micrometer: clickitez vouz.

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 07:29 AM

Youcan get plastic vernier calipers that are not too bad - surprisingly - and fairly cheap

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: HiHo_Silver
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 09:05 AM

You might try this site.http://www.harpconnection.com/. They no doubt will be able to advise you of the string gauges for your harp and/or supply you with the proper strings. Cheers Jim

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Bert
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:10 AM

Try a local piano tuner.

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: JohnB
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 12:17 PM

My cheap nasty micrometer cost 16$Can. try another store. I think I bought it from a place called Princess Auto. Or try your local Luthier.
JohnB

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 04:35 PM

You may be able to find a "cheap micrometer" at a lumber yard or hardware store for under $40 US that would be good enough for your purposes. Micrometers, even in pawn shops etc. in my area, usually run more than $100 because they need to be "certifiable" for use in the industrial places where people here need them.

The Lee Valley micrometer linked by Cluin looks like an adquate one for your purposes, and at $13.50 is quite affordable. The price isn't consistent with assuming it meets typical "industrial grade" requirements in my local industry, but that's impossible to evaluate without putting it through the labs. For occasional use it should be quite suitable. Don't expect to be able to make accurate measurements to the 0.0001 accuracy cited, even if the micrometer is capable of it. That requires considerable practice.

The plastic verniers I've seen are generally not good for better than +/- .01 inch, (often +/- 1/128") and are pretty marginal for accurate measurement of string diameters, although they'll let you tell which string is larger than which other one. You can "eyeball measure" that accurately with a simple scale/ruler if you can find a decent one with 0.01" ticks and your eyesight is very good.

Your local hardware/electrical house may have a "wire gage" that looks like a flat circle with notches around the edge. One of these should be less than $10, and can be quite accurate for telling whether a wire is exactly a given gage, but useless if the wire is "something in-between."

Perhaps the "cheapest" way to make reasonably accurate measurements is with a "flat feeler gage" set from your auto parts store. You can probably get a fairly decent set for $10 or $15, possibly less. You need to produce a "crack" the size of the wire, which can be done with reasonable accuracy by screwing the jaws of a parallel jaw wrench (commonly called a "Crescent wrench" in the US) snugly down on the wire. Then select "feeler blades" from the set until they just fill the crack, as close as possible to the wire. Add up the thicknesses marked on the gages to find the wire diameter.

The accuracy here depends largely on how carefully it's done. The feeler blades should allow you to stack up any reasonable thickness to +/- 0.001 inch, but your overall stack height should be considered about +/- 0.005 or so if you use 3 or 4 blades, depending on your skill and patience.

There are numerous other "make-do" methods, some of which can be quite accurate. Even with the $100+ micrometer, "amateurs" often get false readings because it's quite easy to crush the wire when you screw the "mike" down on it and get a "smaller than actual" reading.

Almost any good music shop, if they do any repairs, should have appropriate measuring tools. You might be able to take samples in and sweet-talk them into measuring them for you. Getting it done for you by someone practiced at using the tools they have is probably the simplest and most accurate method.

And when you put new strings on, write down what size they were for next time.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Bert
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 05:02 PM

Yeah, but piano tuners always have lots of short lengths of music wire which they have left over and can't bear to throw away.

I wanted some music wire one time to make some springs with. The local hobby shop wanted a dollar or two for a three foot length.

I tried a piano tuner and he GAVE me far more than I needed in several thicknesses. You know what musicians are like for helping each other.

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: treewind
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 05:50 PM

Don't music shops sell string gauges, mainly for use by guitarists and, er, music shops... consisting of a flat piece of plastic or metal with lots of notches round the edge, labelled with their sizes? You try the string in the notches until you find the smallest it will just fit in, and read off the number next to it.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 06:06 PM

I've never seen a music wire gauge as such, although it's reasonable that they should be around. The shops big enough to carry "occasional" merchandise of that sort in my locale probably think you might not bring your weapons in and pay them for the upkeep if they make such simple tools available.

I have looked at/for similar measuring tools available from a few of the major luthiery suppliers, and don't recall seeing anything there.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Mooh
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 08:02 PM

I get along fine with vernier calipers with a dial guage, thanks to Lee Valley and lots of practice on things like strings, hardware, wood joints and such. You should be able to get "in the ball park" enough to make an informed purchase. Sure, a micrometer is better, but use what you can get. Good luck!

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 08:23 PM

e-bay

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Bert
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 08:43 PM

Vernier calipers are fine. Watch those dial guages though they are prone to wear. A plain old vernier isn't, you just have to learn how to read it.

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 05:41 PM

Lee Valley goooooooooood!

Fire bad!

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 07:13 PM

I have ordered the micrometer, & I hope it will do the job. There were no gauges given on any strings in the extra set of strings. I have been online emailing every harp site I could over the past month, including the Mid-East Mfg site, the company which built the harp, & harp connection, & the only one which responded advised me to use a micrometer. There are no Music stores in my area which offer strings for non-pedal harps. I will, however, sign up for the harp list! I knew there had to be one out there, I just never ran across it. Thanks all! I'll let you know how it works.

Subject: RE: Tech: measuring strings
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 08:08 PM

I think I'll order one of them micromomomemeter thingies myself.