BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story

Subject: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 07:11 PM

Tonight's programme had a film from undercover reporters working in a privately run centre for asylum seekers. This centre had recently been inspected and given a glowing official report.

The hostile attitudes and open racism shown by some of the workers featured in the film - were simply not acceptable and the so-called controls were obviously not effective.

The film was shocking reailty but it was difficult not to see it as a bad taste comic spoof............

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 08:28 PM

Asylum seekers are a big issue in the UK at the moment with people from ethnic minorities perceived to see the UK as a soft touch and being attacked and victimised on a regular basis.The people in the documentary are representative of a vast number of UK nationals who are disatisfied with the Governments policies on immigration and speak out openly in pubs,clubs and workplaces across the UK against the migrants who are in search of a better life for themselves.It seems ridiculous in the current climate to put a spotlight on this one holding centre and sack the staff involved and think job done and move on.The people will become martyrs for the likes of the BNP and racial hatred will be stoked across the country and who's to say the next employees are going to be any better? We need a total rethink on immigration and policies that reflect the nations best interests.In my view we should have cultural diversity within a managable framework that is respected and harmonious.There is no doubt we all benefit from a Multicultural Society but there are limits on Infrastructure and Economic considerations and logistics that facilitate a need to be realistic in our ability to accomodate an ever growing influx of asylum seekers.People who need help should be helped to rebuild their lives and become valued members of a community -but the freeloaders and criminals should be sent on their way we have enough of them anyway(but that's another subject).

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 08:28 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/real_story/4304547.stm

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:24 AM

Sidewinder: sacking the staff involved instantly is a good start, as long as we dont say "job done". I have not seen the programme yet, but descriptions of some of the behaviour filmed shows it is disgusting and unacceptable.We do all need a serious rethink, about how some of us treat our fellow human beings when they are in trouble. A musician I know well and have worked with is in one of these detention centres, and I knw, as they say, whereof I speak. Des Browne, the Govenment minister concerned, should be ashamed. People have escaped torture and death threats in their own country, and end up here subject to racist guards in our detention centres, it is enough to make me dispair of humanity,

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Sidewinder
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 03:55 AM

Yes I agree with you Greg but what about the minority that seek to exploit our benefits system and are in no danger back in their own country? Or the ones who have criminal intent only on their minds.We need to filter these bad apples out from the deserving cases and we don't seem to have had much success in this with crime gangs springing up across London dealing in drugs and prostitution on the increase.Rather than bring our country a rich vein of cultural diversity they merely bring death and misery.Do we really want to help people like this to prosper?

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:19 AM

Sidewinder: I'm afraid i dont know about all these people exploiting our benefit system, stealing our jobs etc etc. I am talking about the climate of racism in this country, encouraged by those in power who hope to get votes thereby: and this climate results in some poor, who have escaped dreadful treatment at home, ending up being subjected to racial abuse by the sort of failed nightclub bouncers who end up minding them in detention centres.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:33 AM

This is a thorny issue and the point you make is a valid one and I see no point in arguing over what we both agree.I feel that there are key areas of this issue that divide opinion and it is a case of perspectives and not really beliefs.People suffering is not an acceptable state of affairs in this day and age and globally the powers that be can put an end to it.But they unilaterally choose not to address this. But, is it fair and reasonable to expect one tiny island to absorb all the worlds needy and suffering? It is not practical however altruistic you are.Awaiting further input from you Greg on a more proactive level.

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:47 AM

But, is it fair and reasonable to expect one tiny island to absorb all the worlds needy and suffering? It is not practical however altruistic you are.

That is another issue.

I hope that you would agree that the main issue here is that - whatever needs to be done - needs to done properly and needs to be seen to be done properly. And that subjecting these people to bullying and racial abuse as seen in this film - is not proper treatment to be offically sanctioned by our Government?

You can judge for youselves. Detention Undercover - the Real Story can be seen in full on BBC 1 at 9 pm.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:48 AM

If you read the 'saw it in the newspaper' thread here, you will see that Australia leads the world in combining Mental Asylums and Refugee Detention Centres...

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:59 AM

Well, I dont know about being proactive, Sidewinder. Now it's a long time since I read the bible, but I remember it says something along the lines of "If he asks for bread, do you give him a stone? If he asks for meat, do you give him a scorpion?". That is my attitude to those in trouble. And yes, I do appreciate, emotionally and economically, that I could not afford to be nice to everyone in the world with a problem. But I can do my best for the people standing in front of me asking for help. And I can, for example, refrain from racially abusing them, or physically or sexually assaulting them, Or calling them bogus asylum seekers.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 05:13 AM

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=615992

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: RichM
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:56 AM

For centuries, the UK has benefited from political and economic domination of many peoples of the world.
Now it's payback time. Or if you prefer, karma...

Rich M

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:09 PM

Well said Greg!!

In fact I'm so impressed, I'm going to nominate you for "freedom of the Cowal Peninsula"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:37 PM

Well I caught a couple of words of it in the middle of doing other things. Seemed some "guard" was quite happy (to paraphrase) "breaking peoples fucking noses".

If I caught it right, it is appauling.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:41 PM

Yet of course, we can help the US in setting moral standards for Iraq,

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:26 PM

Well, that programme was pretty appalling, wasn't it? For those who are unfamiliar with this sort of thing, you will now know why I am worried about my musician friend and colleague who is in one of these places, and who has been hurt while they tried to drag him onto a plane. Luckily his fighting back caused them not to go through with his deportation. He is back in the centre now, and I have every confidence(or perhaps every hope) that when his case is reassessed he will get the asylum he deserves.
   I will not give any details in this thread, because Mudcat alas sometimes attracts the same type of people we saw ine programme. They are more educated, some of the GUESTS we get here, but with the same outlook. If anybody cares to PM me, to ask where they can get recordings of ....'s music, or help campaign for his release, [please do. I hope by the summer folk festival season you will see him back out, with indefinite leave to remain in England, and singing beautifully on stage again.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:40 PM

Hey Greg, why do you need to drag fear of guest into this. I do not need to drag Mudcat Members into it. Or Mudcat into it.?

Please explain because I posted as a Guest...

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:47 PM

And yes Greg, my appauling was over our standards of treating people here. Me think you read guest posts with different eyes to the same you would read a member saying exactly the same thing. You have joined a fashion not a truth.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:50 PM

I do need to explain treating people here resfres to the UK and NOT to this forum

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 03:30 AM

Jon: of course I was not referring to all guests, I often post as a guest myself. I was merely saying that I wasn't going to post personal stuff about a musician in trouble in an open forum which is often visited by some very hostile anonymous people...you must realise that some people live in a climate of fear.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 04:31 AM

I see why this issue has struck a chord with you now and wish you every success in your campaigning, and hope your friend is free, in the near future, to enrich our musical scene with his talent.

Best Wishes.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 04:39 AM

Thanks Greg. I did get Pip to read before I posted and 2 of us had misread you. These things happen... Anyway, I accept it was a missunderstanding on my/our part and apologise.

I hope things go well for your musician friend.

-------------

Has anyone got any more feedback on the program? As I indicated above, the tiny bit I got left me with a feeling of disgust. I'm not saying every assylum seekers cause is just or that we don't have a problem with the volume of them BUT right, wrong, or whatever, there is no reason I can see to beat them up or otherwise mistreat them.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 10:18 AM

Islands and Oasis

Islands and oasis, all the safe places.
Shade from the sun, a place in the warm,
Somewhere to lie,
In the eye
Of the storm
Islands and oasis, it's written on their faces
They can't run, too tired to fight
Leave me please
In peace
Tonight

I've crossed the borders of many lands
I'm used to orders and commands
But those words still cut you like a knife
Why must it be so hard, to lead a simple life?
We don't expect to know the reasons
For we are but strangers here to freedom
We're travelling with no destination
Just keeping low, with no, high expectations

Islands and oasis, all the safe places.
Shade from the sun, a place in the warm,
Somewhere to lie,
In the eye
Of the storm
Islands and oasis, it's written on their faces
They can't run, too tired to fight
Leave me please
In peace
Tonight

In the dark streets of this town
There are some places to be found
Where you can be, but not belong
For soon they will return, to move you on
Your home may be a place of safety
But it was no such place for me
I left the violence and the lies
But the secrets still creep in
When I close my eyes

Islands and oasis, all the safe places.
Shade from the sun, a place in the warm,
Somewhere to lie,
In the eye
Of the storm
Islands and oasis, it's written on their faces
They can't run, too tired to fight
Leave me please
In peace
Tonight

Roger Gall 1998

Subject: RE: BS: BBC Newsnight - asylum centre story
From: Noreen
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 11:36 AM

Lovely, Roger. Thank you.