BS: American League or National?

Subject: BS: American League or National?
From: Torctgyd
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 10:01 AM

With the MLB season almost upon us which do you prefer, American or Nation leagues and why?

I much prefer to watch National league games. I love to watch pitchers bat and it's well worth the wait to see the pitcher make a hit. Also, if a pitcher throws dangerously then the opposing pitcher can get back at him unlike in the AL.

Also, slightly off topic but as I started it I can do what I want with it :-).

Why is it such bad form to steal a base when your loads of runs in front? The batters don't try and not hit a home run do they?

T

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 10:11 AM

I'm with you- National League. The senior circuit.   

I detest the DH for the same reasons quoted above. I feel the games in the NL are more compelling because of the way pitchers are used.

I also love the NL because of my beloved Mets.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 10:16 AM

Clearly, the National League. Why would anyone even ask such a silly question? It's not the pitcher batting that makes the choice obvious to me, it's the rich tradition on the National League. It just seems like there are more teams with a richer history in the National League, like the Cubs, the Cardinals, the Pirates (and even though I've never really accepted them since their move, the Dogers and the Giants.) In the American league, it's mostly the Yankees and Red Zox, with maybe the Orioles and Cleveland. I mean, who can get excited about the Anaheim Angels, or Kansas City Royals, unless you live there? Or the Tampa Bay Devil Rays? It's nice to have a Washington team again to resore their rich heritage of losing :-)

As someone who appreciates the history of the game and remembers Musial, Feller, Snider and Mays, Clemente and so many others, I have a strong association with teams with a longer history. And, even though I've never liked the Yankees, their tradition still pulls me in.

How odd that a folk singer would be attracted to tradition. :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 11:04 AM

You really hit on something Jerry. I think you are right about the National League having a richer tradition.   Sure, the American League had the Yankees and their rich history, but because the Yankees were so dominant, the other teams could only maintain a local following. Even though the NL had dominant teams like the Giants and the Cards, there were more pennant races that weren't decided by July 4. It lead to the NL gaining more of a storied history, and one that was followed nationally. With the American League, it was based on one team with a handful of stars. For many people across the country, it wasn't the story to follow.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 11:36 AM

3-I.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: jimmyt
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 12:45 PM

Jerry, I noticed you left out my beloved Braves, but I am sure it is a throw-back to the pain and anguish you must have felt when they left Milwuakee!

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 02:16 PM

Oh, you mean the Boston Braves. jimmy! I can't really get "into" the Braves... not sure they're the Boston Braves, the Milwaukee Braves or the Atlanta Braves.. When teams morph too much, they lose me.

Good to see you, jimmy.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Once Famous
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 03:46 PM

National League for sure, especially because of my beloved Cubs and the National League shrine called Wrigley Field.

The rich tradition of Chicago Cub baseball has now spanned about 100 years in my family.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:31 PM

Always been a National guy, probably because I grew up a Dodgers fan(Drysdale and Koufax are still my heroes), my cousin played for the Milwaukee Braves farm team (Louisville Colonels AAA), and in Louisville, we got all the Cardinals games hosted by PeeWee and Dizzy. The DH rule is a factor too.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:40 PM

Funny, I live in an American League town (Detroit), I used to live in Boston Red Sox territory, I'm a Red Sox fan--and I agree with all of you about the NL. Far superior brand of baseball, requiring more strategy. This may be a vestige of learning baseball as a kid in Brooklyn when the Dodgers were still there tearing up the National League.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:48 PM

The Cubs!! Now we are talking tradition!   Even though I am a Mets fan, I have a chair from Wrigley Field in my den with a small jar of dirt from the infield at Wrigley. I admire the Cubs and their fans, who I think suffered more than the Red Sox fans over the years and never put the blame on a silly curse from the Bambino.   Okay, so they blame a goat instead... but at least that makes more sense!!!!!

Let's play two!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 05:13 PM

Well, Iz torn since I grew up with the AL Senators, which is the lone BB team that got stolen twice, but now the "Nationals" are gonna be in the NL... But I ain't warmed up to the National's as yet mostly because under the new name, city and uniforms they are still the lousy team that was last years NL doormat...

Not that the Senators were much better but, hey, I grew up with them bums...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM

These days a better question is, Injectables or Rub on Cream?

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: GUEST,chinmusic
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 07:15 PM

I was brought up on AAA baseball here in Toronto in the 60s, but after seeing the DH since '77, I do prefer the NL style of ball. AL managers are more or less on automatic pilot, but their counterparts in the Senior Circuit have to think many moves ahead, and it becomes more like a game of chess.   As a fan of the game, I enjoy that particular strategic aspect of baseball. Another thing I miss is the speed factor. There is less emphasis on stolen bases in this era and I enjoyed watching folks like Lou Brock, Maury Wills, Willie Davis and Luis Aparico change the complexion of a game with their ability to steals bases. Rickey Henderson may be the greatest base stealer of all time, but there just weren't that many players who played that style of game during his prime.

       I also miss the colourful nicknames attached to some players. Players such as 'Suitcase' Simpson, 'The Splendid Splinter' 'Dr. Strangeglove', as examples, come to mind. Finally, the DH certainly gives NL teams an unfair advantage come World Series time. Hopefully, baseball will come to its senses and abolish both the DH, and Bud Selig. With a new season just around the corner, I have to say that there's never been a time when I walked up a ramp to the playing field, and my heart doesn't go pitter-pat. Seeing that beautiful emerald green diamond in front of my eyes, just never gets old.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:20 AM

Another vote for the Senior Circuit. I was born a NY Giant fan and later learned I had been a Mets fan for my whole life.

DH-less play is superior, not because anyone wants to watch pitchers bat, but because the strategy is more involved when pitchers are required to bat to stay in the game. Specifically, the strategy in more essentially baseball-like, and baseball is interesting because of strategy and potential. There's really not a lot of action in nine innings of baseball, but there's a whole lot of possibilty and therefore temendous drama.

Also, over the years, the NL has generally been more competitive, with almost every team having a turn at big-time winning. In the AL, it's usually been the Yankees, plus maybe, in some seasons, one or two serious challengers, and a bunch of hopeless losers. In the NL, almost everyone starts almost every season with some hope of a good year.

But, to give the AL its due, lemme play Devil's Advocate for a minute.

The NL is indeed several decades olders than the AL, but both leagues are over 100 years old by now, and both leagues have a mix of "original" teams in their original cities, transplanted teams dating back to Day One (e.g., NY/SF Giants, Philadelphia/KC/Oakland Athletics, StL Browns/Baltimore Orioles, Dodgers, Braves, etc.) and newer "expansion" teams. In fact, I believe if you count 'em up, there are more AL teams still in their original cities than NL.

If you like ancient stadiums that are hallowed shrines, there's precisely one in each league, and the AL's Fenway generally houses a better team (a higher grade of chronic loser, pardon the exression, wit the obvious exception of this past year) than doe Wrigley.

If you like the new breed of beautiful new retro stadiums, the AL has the firstest and the bestest, in Baltimore.

That's about all the good stuff I can come up with about the AL. But then, I'm a National League fan. Can't somebody out there take up the AL cause?

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 03:20 AM

Not me. I lived and died with the Phillies in '64, when they blew their last ten games and had to hope the Mets beat St. Louis in the last game of the season in order for them to have a chance for the pennant. Guess what--the Mets lost. I watched Koufax and Marichal and Bunning pitch, but instead of watching Bunning's perfect game I saw "Spartacus" instead. I even saw Robin Roberts pitch in the first game my Dad took me to at Connie Mack Stadium (which he always called by its old name, Shibe Park).

I sure do miss Rick Fielding when we talk about baseball.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Torctgyd
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 05:37 AM

I'm a bit surprised, I was expecting about a 50/50 split but this thread is dominated by NL fans. Are there no AL fans in Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: GUEST,Auggie
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 06:47 AM

Not here. NL also. I grew up on the Dodgers and the Cubs, and I defy anyone to find a better major league venue than Wrigley on a sunny summer afternoon.
As an adult I've suffered through 10 or 12 consecutive seasons of loser AL baseball in Milwaukee, but now that we have a new owner, a new retro stadium that certainly is in a class with Baltimore's(and with a Wisconsin (translation=usually shitty) weather friendly retractable dome over REAL grass), and visiting NL teams (Brewers were shuffled from the AL to the NL a little while back), the only reason to watch the AL that I can think of is to see who's going to win the World Series.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 07:18 AM

Yeah Mark.....I miss him all the time................

In this day and age, the players move from team to team so fast that an allegiance to a league is a joke as I can't even get too many warm-fuzzies from a team.   Time was when players got screwed on salaries and control of their own life, but for us fans, it was great!

Players stayed with a team for a long time and trades were often devastating to the fans. In the off-season most players held other jobs and they lived in the neighborhoods where they played. Let's face it...It was a kinder, gentler, time. Can any of you name the starting line-up for your favorite team? If so, can you name the line-up for their biggest rival? Uh-huh.........I thought not. Even up into the 70's most fans knew everyone in the entire league but today I think you have to be really hard core to come even close.

I grew up in an AL community and the Indians still fielded respectable teams in the 50's of my youth. There was no DH (needs to be banned by Constitutional Amendment) and although we all hated the Yankees, every one of us still wanted to be The Mick. Number 7 was always fought over on every Little League team, so much so that several teams didn't have one! The Tigers were a major rival of course and I was in a deep funk for weeks, almost the entire season, when Cleveland traded Rocky Colavito to them, for who or whom I can't remember. But it didn't matter anyway, I mean, how could they do that? Rocky was a Cleveland kind of guy and an anchor in the lineup.

Throughout the 70's I was a Reds fan like many other Ohians and the Big Red Machine and the National League took over my interest.

Oh well......In answer to your question, I'm an International League fan now. Columbus, Rochester, Indianapolis, the infamous Mud Hens of Toledo................Yeah, give me minor league ball any day. We can go to 4 or 5 Columbus games for the price of 1 Cleveland or Cincy game. The action is good and at any game you are likely to see far more odd plays then you would at a major league game.

So put me down for International League or, if you only have the choice between American and National, mark me down in the "Who Gives A Shit" column.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 09:37 AM

A lotta people have tried putting Spaw down, but you know, it is like trying to suppress ignorance ... it always springs back up somewhere!

Anyway, the American League, and the New York Yankees, are king. There is nod doubt or question -- they are "the baseball team". Everyone else is merely "another ball team". The Mick was king of kings back when, Yogi was king of catchers, Don Larsen was the pitcher from heaven.

I know these things change -- hell, Mickey is almost dead!!! But some things never change. They are THE team. No sense talking sense into me either. I have had these firm conclusions since I was eight and see no reason to change 'em now, except temporarily when attending a Padres game.

But the truth always comes back...the Yankees are THE team.


A

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:11 PM

Amos, I never knew. I had you pegged for more common sense then that.

There is doubt - the are NOT "THE" baseball team, but you are right - it is impossible to talk sense to a Yankee fan. Most Yankee fans I know are stubborn and wear blinders. You might as well try to talk sense to a Republican!!!

I'm sure there are many wonderful Yankee fans out there, but I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:28 PM

Rocky Colavito was traded for Harvey Kuene (sp? ~ pronounced "Keen") ~ batting champion for home-run champion. Harvey didn't stay with the Indians very long. His greatest accomplishment came after his playing days were over, as the most successful manager, ever, of the Milwaukee Brewers.

Amos, if you were a real fan of the 50s-60s Yankee dynasty, you wouldn't be crowing about Don Larson (a guy who had one unbelievable game in a mediocre career), but instead the incomparable Whitey Ford.

Best book ever written about the nuances of baseball fandom in New York in the 50s: A Day in the Bleachers by Arnold Hano. Observing the ancient Greek notion of unity, Hano describes a single 24-hour period ~ the first game of the 1954 World Series ~ but in the process he tells us all about the two leagues, the three New York teams, the characteristics of their respective fans, and all matter of baseball wisdom and history. I hope it's still in print, or at least available in libraries. (Arnold Hano was, among other things, a charter member of the staff of Sports Illustrated.)

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:42 PM

Rooting for the Yankess is like rooting for General Motors. Fortunately, money doesn't always buy a world series championship.
If Steinbrenner could, he'd just buy the All-Star team every year.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:48 PM

Right you are, poppa. Larson won my boy's heart with his no hitter, but Whitey was truly the man among pitchers.

Jerry, the Yankees are nothing like GM. They are magic. Just because you don't understand, don't go passing remarks. Same goes for the rest of youse who never grew up in AM Radio reach of the Yankee's games summer on summer.

That was a different time, innocence in the Fifties; my love for the Yankees, like my love for Patty Wiswall in second grade, was impeccable.

Who's gonna argue with the impeccable?


A

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 02:12 PM

Yeah, I miss Rick's comments, too. He described himself as "a lifelong Yankees fan except maybe for the Jays in 92 and 93" so I guess we know where he would have stood on this. As for me, my hatred of the damnYankees was all-consuming during those great Dodgers-Yankees Series of the 60s, but time has mellowed me considerably. Any team that boasted the likes of Dimaggio, Mantle, Maris, Ruth, and Gherig...oh, and Yogi too...can't be all bad.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 02:26 PM

Ah Amos, you suffered a misguided youth!

I grew up in AM radio range of the Yankees so I will make remarks! My radio dial was shifted over to the Mets. The trio of Nelson-Murphy-Kiner were the best NY radio could offer. The Yankee broadcasters were a pale comparison. The Scooter? Give it a rest! Even Mel Allen had lost it by then.

The Yankees are like rooting for General Motors, IBM or any other corporation. Buy out your compitition and then boast about how good you are! BS!!!!! Steinbrenner's influence on baseball has led it to the point where it is today.

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 02:33 PM

I'm talking Casey Stengel, and the Mets were a giant betrayal that had not yet been invented, Ron!!! C'mooon -- you're just a sprat, and I'm talking the Golden Age of Ancient History!!! LOL Hello, Los Angeles didn't even have a ball-team, it was such a Johnny-come-lately!




A

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 02:37 PM

The Yankees threw Stengel out on his ass. The Mets hired him and he became an icon!

Sprat that!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: American League or National?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 02:49 PM

LOL! Geeze, I ain't gonna tangle with anyone who has facts at their fingertips. Even a yonker!!

I may not know much about baseball, but I know what I like!!

A