Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song

Subject: Lyr Add: CORPORAL FOX (Nick Griffin)
From: GUEST,Vote BNP
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:47 AM

Corporal Fox

My God, it was cold in the Falklands
When the stars and the flares shone out clear,
But at least I had mates to share jokes with
It's much colder and lonelier here.
And that sharp piece of Argentine shrapnel
It's hurt me for many a year
But not like when you look straight through me,
Pretending I'm not even here.

My God, we were thirsty in Kuwait
And choking in dust we went dry
But we shed a few tears for our Gary
When a mine took his legs and he died
And knowing the next step could kill me
I thought it had taught me of fear
Til I see how you look straight through me
Pretending I'm not even here.

My God, I was angry to hear it
When 'home' from the army I came:
There were flats for Iraqis and Afghans
But never a one with my name.
I thought that the council would sort it
Til a desk clerk with spiky green hair
Said "next please" and looked straight through me
Pretending I just wasn't there.

So I swear and I curse and I mutter
Though the anger is mainly inside
Without hope there's no disappointment
There's no one out there on my side.
I know the White Lightning will kill me
Don't you see that I really don't care?
It helps me to look straight through you
And pretend that I'm not quite all there.

So I live where the police cars can't see me
In my rags and my old cardboard box
And there's no one would notice me vanish
Except for my mate, Corporal Fox.
Two broken old squaddies together
In winter we share the same lair
And I bring him some bones from our Colonel
So he doesn't pretend I'm not there.


Author Nick Griffin gives a brief word sketch of the inspiration behind Corporal Fox, one of more than a dozen songs he has written:

I have a very early childhood memory of seeing a bearded tramp with a fox on a lead. It was many years later, when I heard that around 20% of Britain's homeless are ex-servicemen, that I remembered him and realised that most 'tramps' in the early 1960s would have been veterans of the Second World War. Different wars have been fought since then, of course, but the disgrace of old soldiers without homes stays the same. Having promoted his fox to Corporal, the veteran of two recent conflicts brings him chicken bones from the bin outside KFC so he doesn't lose his only companion. He seems to be going mad – or is it the society that lets such men down so badly that's truly crazy?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Gedpipes
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:50 AM

I'm a simple man. What point are you trying to make Guest?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:23 AM

Gedpipes,
          You are a silly ols sausage aren't you? The message is simple, foxes make rubbish NCO's.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Scabby Douglas
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 10:31 AM

This racist muck should be allowed to die (please do NOT harvest this lyric for inclusion in the Digitrad , JoeClones)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Vote BNP
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 11:22 AM

I'm not trying to make a point Gedpopes. I was simply adding the lyrics as the fact that the BNP have been using folk music lately has been a matter for discussion elsewhere on Mudcat. Thought I'd let people make their own minds up about it that's all.

Why is it "racist rubbish" scabby D?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 11:35 AM

Of course you are trying to make a point. Things like this are not posted without an agenda. Come clean - either you are an apologist for these people or you work for Searchlight.
Show us your colours or go somewhere else.
Ged

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Anonanonanonanon
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:05 PM

Living overseas, I may be missing something here from a political angle. I assume the BNP is some right wing UK minority party. If that is the case, then I believe that this is not the forum in which to peddle its wares.
However, the words, construction and sentiment of the song/poem strike a bell with me. OK, the reference to housing for Iraqis and Afghans certainly gives it a racist slant, but I'm sure that this song is good enough to deserve a wider currency.
Maybe a re-write of this verse might make it more palletable, unless, of course, the author is deliberately trying to stir up BNP sympathies. On the other hand, maybe he is telling it "like it is" without actually pushing any political barrow.
I have not previously heard of Nick Griffin, but if this song is typical of his material, I would like to see and hear more.
Signing off to go Googling....

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Anonanonanonanon
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:43 PM

OK, I've Googled. Don't really like what I found!
Should perhaps have Googled before my previous post rather than making a total prat of myself.

Open mouth, change feet! Apoligies to any one I may have offended.

Now, the question is: should the reputation of the author change my attitude towards this song, notwithstanding my reservations about verse 3?

Or would that make me, at best, an apologist for the BNP? Or at worst, a supporter.

Signing off to slash wrists!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Rich A
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 12:54 PM

Nick Griffin is scum of the highest order. He gets arrested every couple of months for inciting racial hatred. A despicable man with despicable aims.

Folk music is for the people, not Nazis!

Rich A

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 06:08 PM

The Nazis used German folk music so well that the post war generations of german folkies won't touch it with a bargepole, which is why they all pretend to be Irish.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 07:39 PM

Bnp are rubbissh, [really rubbisah, most rubbish people i ever herd of],
you can see this for yousdelf, just look at the bnp people=ie
= they are look like evil bastards, and look like thugs, and very bad people, i seen them on telly, they look very bad [lilke fighting people, ie them people waht like to make trubble, and they all got really short hare, [like skinheds], and you can tell they are bad , just by look at them, and they piss me off.


there new idea is= give all ex army people guns, and they idea is = all ex army people hafe to carry guns, i am ex army, if they give me a gun, i will shoot them [the bnp;s], not the coloureds.


and anyway= most ex army people waht i know is mental, ie there heads is fucvked up, so give them guns = caos!


if you are bnp person then just get lost.

signed john evans [john from hull].

[that means guck offf].

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:01 AM

Yeah, but it's actually a very good song (or it might be, with the tune), and it certainly speaks of a problem perceived to be widespread (although it probably isn't widespread) so maybe a rewrite of verse 3 would see it as a "proper" song.

Just switch "Iraqis and Afghans" to "all kinds of queuejumpers".

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:30 AM

Not a bad song actually. I think it does represent a serious problem we have in Britain. Our ex-servicemen (and old people for that matter too) deserve better. It's just about fairness really. Why should someone who has never paid a penny into our system, be eligible for housing/benefits/handouts (call 'em what you like)? In the end, it's at the expense of the rest of us who pay our way.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: breezy
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:35 AM

Untill the importance of education is fully understood by those who choose to let it pass them by then those who miss out on it will always be resentful of those from abroad being given a hand.





many young men entered the forces with little or no eduction?
had they succeeded in main stream school they would they have done something different

Squaddies will soon be redundant as wars will be fought with highly qualified personnel with high tech weaponry
making GHQ an area to not want to live in!


Since when was a song judged on the character of the author?



the song smacks of bitterness, rather 'naive'style, and probably fictitious, but has impact.

I work with many young men from Iraq and Afghanistan, I must say they do enjoy playing Volleyball.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:40 AM

Hm...probably one the most interesting threads I've ever seen on Mudcat.

I've got a friend living in Hull who works as a counsellor and she has helped a lot of ex-squaddies, who have had a pretty shit deal from society. In fact its not unknown for various factions to categorise the British Army as despised murderers even on the mudcat page.

Who would know better that fascists are scum than the body of men who delivered Europe and the world from the threat of Fascist domination. All of the people who create threads like the ones that must be SO offensive to people who have kids out in Iraq or other trouble spots, enjoy such freedoms as they have only because of the British Army.

As for the BNP marching in and colonising English folksong. well God knows its been vacant long enough with the only songs played on the radio - songs about 18th century shepherds and so many folkies living in a world where they still dance jigs and reels.

oh yeh we're going to get that one - the human condition doesn't change and The Plains of waterloo tells it like it is. I guess thats what makes folksong such a vibrant force in our society and so many people are flocking to hear these eternal truths.

that said don't vote BNP

all the best

Big Al Whittle

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,open mind
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:40 AM

True about fascists. My grandad fought in the war against them and we would never want to ever live under a tyrannical state with no freedom (hang on a sec - are we not getting that way under Bliar?).

But I really don't believe you can call the BNP that. You know what the papers are like and how they like to name call. (Believe me, I know -I studied Media at uni). I've honestly never actually looked into the BNP, since I thought they were a bit on the 'extreme' side, despite agreeing on some of their points, but having checked out their site as an open-minded person, I don't see that there is anything 'fascist' (ie anti-democratic) about them. Any comments?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:02 AM

This is absolute bollocks. Open mind? you have to be joking. Why do I think you have another agenda.
Lets get one thing straight. The BNP
incite hatred based on people who they perceive to be different
and they incite and engage in violence.
They do not engage in democractic politics but the politics of fear.
If you want to find out the full extent of their activities log on to searchlight which has been campaigning against their activites for over 30 years.

Joe Offer this is not a healthy thread for mudcat.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:02 AM

It is unfortunately true that many of the "homeless" on the streets of this country have experienced "institutionalization" either in Childrens Homes, Mental Hospitals or the army and find difficulty in adapting to life outside often rejecting the help that is available.
I feel particularly sorry for those young men fighting an illegal war that is so obviously revilved by so many fellow citizens; they will surely need our help in civilian life

I have visited "asylum seekers" in the dispersal housing that they had been allocated in one of our northern cities. These were "condemned" slum terraced houses in an appalling state of disrepair and were "available" because no one else would have voluntarily rented them and the council had insuffcient funds to ensure their demolition. Nevertheless, songs like the above perpetuate the pervasive and divisive hate message that "someone who has never paid a penny into our system is eligible for housing/benefits" at the expense of the elderly etc.

Lets have some alternative songs posted here - don't let the devil have all the best tunes.....

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:04 AM

One comment, Openmind.

The German people didn't see Hitler as particularly anti democratic until he was given the power to be so. They believed he wanted a better Germany for all.

Also, I seem to remember large numbers of Indians, Malays, Sikhs, and others now despised by the BNP, being killed supporting this country in the fight against Hitler. Small thanks for them from our resident Fascisti.

I agree with Sir joHn. Racist scum!

Don T.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:07 AM

No we are not getting that way under Blair, who has worked all his life in an honourable manner in a political party of the highest principle.

The BNP blame all our ills on on ethnic minorities , which is pretty good acid test for detecting fascists.

sorry about that - too many relative clauses. I'm in bad mood - just come back from the dentist.

all the best

Big Al Whittle

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:16 AM

I deliberately posted separately because there are two completely separate issues here.

The song, taken purely as a creative work is good, and with the small change suggested above, would be more than palatable. It speaks to the perennial plight of the returning ex soldiers of many wars.

These men have put their lives on the line in the service of their country, and are left to rot when no longer needed.

I read somewhere that more Vietnam veterans have committed suicide, than were killed in that war. They were mostly draftees, not volunteers, and came home to be called babykillers, and treated with contempt and hatred by those whose fathers had the clout to keep them from being drafted.

That, to me should be what this song is about.

DT

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:17 AM

Someone has written that the BNP "do not engage in democractic politics". Are you thick? The BNP is standing in elections up and down the country next week as they do every year.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Gedpipes
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:26 AM

Have you got a name guest? A monkey stood in Hartlepool for the mayoral elections and was elected. You are correct in saying that the BNP are standing in many seats as prospective parliamentary candidates. This fact alone does not make them a democratic party.
Presumably you think it is democratic to peddle racist propagada? If you are the same guest posing under various names then come clean. What is your agenda?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: BanjoRay
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:29 AM

Hitler stood in elections till he was elected. That was his last one!
Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: sapper82
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:39 AM

weelittledrummer
"No we are not getting that way under Blair, who has worked all his life in an honourable manner in a political party of the highest principle."

Bollocks he has!! TB lied through his teeth about the reasons for invading Iraq and the fact surrounding the apparent suicide of Dr. Kelly.
Not only that but his party has been the first to scream "rasism" whenever someone brought up legitimate concerns regarding Immigration and so-called "multi-culturalism". This stiffling of any oportunity of open debate on such matters opened up a gap for the BNP to drive a coach and horses through.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Britfolker
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:40 AM

>Any comments?

Plenty come to mind....

>... a bit on the extreme side....

Do me a favour! Understatement of the year imho!

However, this is a folk music forum, unless I'm greatly mistaken, and I for one would hate to see any discussion of this, and perhaps other, memorable songs discarded into the BS list or removed completely, because of the political persuasions of the writer. I personally wouldn't consider this song out and out BNP propaganda, with or without that line in verse 3.

Thread starter/Guest, if you are still out there, is there a tune to go with the song?

(though I somehow suspect that, having sown the seeds of discontent, and been told to *guck off* he has disappeared!)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: sapper82
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 07:15 AM

Having already made my posting above I had a look at the BNP site to find the song and this is the link to it (fingers crossed that it works):-
BNP Song site
To me it sounds as good a song as the left wing propaganda produced by Jimmy Miller (aka Ewan McColl)and other superb songwirters I happen to disagree with politically.
Looking at it as an ex-squaddie it does brings home the appalingly shabby treatment given to ex-servicemen in the UK and Veterans in the US.
It will not however persuade me to vote BNP!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:50 AM

Umm .... we happily sing the songs / play the tunes without subscribing to the philosophy. Folkies are real good at that ... probably thats what we're for ......

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: breezy
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 10:57 AM

Dr Dr

Not true, I couldnt bring myself to sing something I didnt understand or believe in.

I dont think Pete Seeger could either.

I must believe inwhat I sing to others.



but

If I was getting paid to 'Act' maybe I would, but I'ld probably decline the offer.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Britfolker
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:34 AM

I would admit to subscribing to the philosophy of the song, except for the racist *Iraqis and Afghans* bit.

But having just looked at the BNP video clip, (thanks for the link sapper82), I don't think I could sing it without bringing to mind the purpose to which it has been put by the BNP. So no, I don't think I could sing it.

Mind you, it is not the first song that has been spoilt for me by seeing the video clip :-) (New thread, any one?)


Personally, I think the melody lacks the strength of the lyrics. I would have thought something with a bit more punch would have been more fitting.

Just for a moment forgetting the BNP associations with the song, what *would* Ewan McColl have done musically with a set of words expressing these sentiments? (Excluding the racist bit).

Hmm!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:45 AM

Cut the crap and cut to the chase folks - see the BNP leader's rants about all UK homes acquiring assault rifles (and his Psycho "reasons" for them), then come back here to discuss whether his band of hoods is a legitimate political party or no.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Pied Piper
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:57 AM

I saw the broadcast and found it intriguing, but the song is the of the typical 70's banal amateur singer songwriter drivel that killed many good folk clubs
PP

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:12 PM

I saw Nick Griffin on TV this morning, and he made perfect sense for the first thirty seconds, then he mentioned his 'assault rifle' idea! Can you imagine Hull city centre on a friday night at closing time after several thousand rifles have been handed out?

When I lived in the country I had a firearms certificate for many years, When I moved to Hull the Police revoked my licence, and I had to get rid of all my guns, I was pissed off but I understood the reasoning behind their decision.

City living and shedloads of guns just don't go together.
            Bolt action 303's, the true path!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:19 PM

Good man guestjim. Get these creeps off.

Flamenco ted You can't even ride a bike - never mind shoot a rabbit

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Chris Green
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:54 PM

I've just broken a long-standing rule of mine and visited the BNP website, where I encountered the following gem concerning the above song.

"I only wrote the words, Dave Hannam did the real work by coming up with such a superb tune, and singing it so well. He's already sung it in several 'mainstream' folk clubs and tells me that he has reduced some listeners to tears (not in the way that I would if I tried to sing it!)" Nick Griffin (Fuhrer.. oops, sorry, Chairman)

Firstly, "mainstream" folk clubs? Is there such a thing? As opposed to what? BNP folk clubs?

Secondly, the vast majority of folk club audiences I've come across have been polite to a fault, and will dutifully applaud any floor spot no matter how abysmal. If you're going to take an audience perfunctorily clapping as a sign that they agree with what you say, you clearly haven't played many folk clubs.

Has anyone out there actually seen Mr Hannam at their local folk club? If so, did the song reduce you or anyone around you to tears? Or is this another example of far-right "we're just like you underneath the black uniform" bullshit?

If Mr H turns up at any folk club I'm playing at, I'll have no hesitation in telling him precisely what I think of having the English folk tradition hijacked by a bunch of racist scumbags. Although, being as this IS the BNP I may have to use words of one syllable!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:58 PM

They're not going to get in anyway, especially with Veritas there to split the vote of the ignorant.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Tam the man
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:59 PM

I don't call them or their meembers or voters as the British National Party what they really are the BRITISH NAZI PARTY.

but Britain is a country where freedom of speech is still allowed in some cases, and they have the right to saying anything they like within reason, I just don't like them or the policeses that's all.

I will not be voting for them.

Tom

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:06 PM

I thought it was Braindead Nazi Pricks...

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Piers
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:20 PM

You couldn't make it up could you?:

'Members of the far right British National party walked out of their own Christmas party after organisers accidentally hired a black DJ. "We had to be careful what we said when we did the raffle so we didn't offend the guy," said BNP official Bob Garner. The party, at a London hotel was organised by the party's central London branch. "He sounded white on the phone," said Garner.' Sunday Times,12 December

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:23 PM

Hahahaha!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:04 PM

Quite possibly the "Horst Vessel Lied" is also a sensitive account of the plight of some unfortunate young chap. I have never bothered to find out and quite frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. Ditto any BNP shit.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: sapper82
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:44 PM

The tune to Horst Wessel makes it a bloody good marching song!! Pity about the words though!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:15 PM

Does the tune remind anyone else of Donovan's "Gipsy Boy and I?"

Would that not be ironic?

Shame really. It deserves a better tune - not because of the political merit (BNP are not in favour here!) but because of the considerable virtue of the words apart from that fatal bit of verse 3.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Chris Green
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:54 PM

There's also a bit on their site saying and I quote "are there any budding Mike Oldfields (Mike Oldfields? Surely he writes mainly instrumental stuff?) out there? Lyrics encouraging or condoning race-mixing, homosexuality, drugs and similar decadence, and that tired old 'Oi' sound, are not required, but if you are making any kind of music that you think may be suitable, please get in touch."

So far I only have a chorus, but if anyone wants to write the rest, I'm sure they'll love it!

(to the tune of Villikins and his Dinah)

To me toorali-oorali-addy
To me toorali-oorali ay
To me too-rali-oorali-addity
I'm mixed race, a junkie and gay.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:32 AM

Well, i'd rather have the bnp than you any day.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: sapper82
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:51 AM

A thought!
Songs related to the extreme right are, with considerable justification, more than slightly frowned upon.
But what about other songs of the Left? In particular The Internationale? Given that MANY more people were murdered under comunism ought these body of music be given the same treatment as Horst Wessel?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Emma B
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:55 AM

"The Internationale will unite the human race" - I don't think I have an argument with that.......

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 05:08 AM

Stalin killed 60 million, including many of his own people in the gulags (soviet concentration camps). Compare this with the Nazi concentration camps.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Piers
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 06:05 AM

The Internationale comes from a poem written in 1871 in the aftermath of the
Paris Commune , 46 years before the Russian revolution.

You need some serious intellectual gymnastics to get from the lyrics of the Internationale (and socialist/communist thought) to Stalinism 56/57 years later, not that those who have a vested interest in the human race not being united haven't tried.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 06:32 AM

Stalin had a better moustache....otherwise as you say, not a lot to choose.