Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Jcd
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:44 PM

Richard here is the info re higher qualified black African males....I have the stats re black female students in a heap of TUC papers, but can hunt them down on the net and post them if you wish.

I have also read about the schizophrenia stats, but I don't know the medical reasons given. Sickle cell is I think due to the genetic make up?


Union leader John Monks said the figures, published by the Office for National Statistics, revealed that "racism still blights the working lives" of many black and Asian people in Britain.

The figures reveal that there are wide variations in unemployment levels between ethnic groups.

The unemployment figure for Indian men is just 1% higher than that for white male workers.

But Black Caribbean, African and Pakistani/Bangladeshi men have much higher unemployment rates.

Higher qualifications

The study indicates that the pattern of unemployment is similar for women, although those of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin have a high unemployment rate of 24%.

It says ethnic minority workers are just as qualified as whites, with some groups such as Black African and Indian achieving higher qualifications.

Mr Monks, general secretary of the TUC said: "It is crucial that unions and employers work together to combat racist attitudes at work."

The study says there are 2.4 million ethnic minority people of working age in Britain, almost half of whom live in London.

It also says:


Around 75% of ethnic minority men work in the service sector, compared with just over 65% of white men.

52% of working Bangladeshi men and 44% of working Chinese men are employed in restaurants. The figure for white men is 1%.

One in eight Pakistani men are cab drivers or chauffeurs, compared with a national average of one in 100.

Indian men are 10 times more likely than average to be doctors.




Office for National Statistics
Commission for Racial Equality

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:06 PM

JcD, could we have backup statistics please? Emotionally I want to agree most of the way, but...Certainly many of the law students I teach at London South Bank University are black (Afro-Carribean), but at a guess I would say more black male than female. Some are excellent and some not so. I would however be quite surprised if: -

"Black African males are amongst the most highly qualified of our ex students" - at least if by that you imply that statistically Black African males are more prevalent (apart from WASPS) than any other grouping among the higher percentile markings in academic achievement.

This is not a supposition on my part, but an observation of actual classwork grades amongs those whose work I have marked.

I think I remember seeing some GCSE grade statistics with rankings, and my recollection (which may be faulty) is that the 4 top slots were: -

Sino-Japanese, female
Sino-Japanese, male
Asian, Female
Asian, Male

with Afro-Carribean, Male, at the bottom. The hypothesis was, I think, adverse cultural influence and expectation, but I'm not sure.

Once (and not until) you have the bare facts you can start to look for reasons, and maybe even cures (if you don't like the facts).

And, shouters, please could we stop shouting? The Mudcat may possibly be the only place in the world where we could have an informed and temperate discussion. You may remember that Professor Eysenck produced some IQ statistics that purported to show a correlation between race and IQ. I don't remember the outcome of the discussion that resulted, nor do I remember how the nature/nurture artefact was removed from the data, but inertial data must surely be necessary.

For example (I don't have the root data) I am pretty sure that the diagnosed rate of incidence of schizophrenia is several times higer in black males than white - but at the moment we have (I think) no idea why. It might be prejudice in the diagnosticians, it might be a causative factor in local conditions, it might be genetic, we don't know. Conversely, sickle cell anaemia is restricted to the Afro-Carribean population and the reason is genetic.

If DH wants to make a case, he must produce a scientific hypothesis and then it must be tested. Conversely, if we want to say (for example) that one category of persons is as able as another, then we too must produce hypothesis and test.

If we want, however, to say that people should be treated equally despite possession of different ability, then that is a moral judgement, and we know it breaks down at the limit, for we generally accept that we may detain on mental health grounds those likely to be a danger to themselves or others.

The issue with the song is that it condemns for no reason other than race. That, I think, may be hard to justify.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Nick
Date: 24 May 05 - 11:59 AM

There was a delightful story recently that the BNP had to cancel an election night party as they had inadvertently booked an ethnically different comedian.

Stunning incompetence.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:20 AM

"I was referring in earlier posts not about your grammer"

It's grammar.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:07 AM

Mi, a name I call myself,
Fa, a long long way to run . . .

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Duh!
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:03 AM

LOL Brucie...wasn't Doh a deer, a female Deer and ray a drop of golden sun.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 24 May 05 - 09:55 AM

"nazi's are peope   doh!"

Rewrite: Nazis are people, doh!"

Crap people, but people.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:29 AM

LOL I have enjoyed of three of your posts MM...nice lol
Your forgiven too for all the 3 posts you have contributed..there now we are all square on the forgiveness subject...ok..
rofl

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: movingmountains
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:25 AM

nazi's are peope   doh!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: movingmountains
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:21 AM

the melody made the words into lyrics hence the song
your political stance is just as fascist condemning abusing and edeavouring to discount the others viewpoint

maybe you are saint. probably think you are. oh yes the pope supported hitler too. lets burn the heretics.

open your heart you need forgiveness i feel your pain and fear. you are forgiven

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:19 AM

david david david.
Indeed? Perhaps it would be prudent in that case then to remove yourself from associating with People like Griffin.
Disassociate yourself completely from men and women that applaud what you yourself call "the evil tyranny of Nazism" saying that you may not agree with "all" of the opinions held just does not cut it I'm afraid.

Regarding the subject of profanity.... some of your supporters that have entered this Forum as Guests to make statements have made it obvious from their Grammar that they may not be able to understand "debate" as you call it.
Sometimes the effort of debate with this kind of mentality is futile and one finds that direct expression of the feelings that arise when reading posts such as theirs provokes one to respond with profanity.
In your Party and it's supporter's case let's just call it an occupational hazard and comes with the job!
I find it's use neither offensive or showing a lack of thought or intelligence on the part of the members here.
I see the unforunate emotions that are brought to the surfaced when people read Nazi propaganda. That I find sad....the emotions that is not the people feeling it!

Again, I ask you, politely...Please go somehwere else and take your Supporters with you.
You have NOTHING of value to contribute to this Forum unfortunately and as the age old saying goes "you can tell a man by the Company he keeps"
If that saying is true...the Company you keep is most defintely NOT the kind of Company that a good number of the people who are Members here wish to encourage or associate with with. ( I can only speak for those who I know but the posts from members thoughout this thread would indeed show that to be fact)
I am sure that this Thread has taken up a considerable amount of your time...so again I ask you to take your own advice which I agree with...I too think we should call a (I, myself would say 'it') quits on this.
I can ASSURE you that all of the people that have posted responses to you and your associates do indeed work (that remark wasn't very well thought out now was it!)...and as for correcting Grammar...I actually find that to be of help rather than insulting.
I appreciate it more than some as I suffer from mild dyslexia.
Also a "mudcat rushed post" could explain some of the members of this Forum's reaction to even finding anything even vaguely associated with Racism and in shock some may feel to "resort to inexplicable hurls of abuse such as Fuck, Shit, Bullshit" I find it perfectly understandable myself.
It is a horrible subject matter and does envoke some very strong feelings in some.

So there we have it, by the tone of your last two posts you have indeed shown yourself in your true light. I can see why you are becoming, shall we say annoyed...and if you are indeed feeling that way then you can perhaps find empathy with those that hold the same feelings towards your party.
May I respectfully request that some of the more, shall we say, alert minds here not respond any further to david and his supporters posts as to debate is to encourage and to encourage is to...basically allow their opinion a outlet here on the Mudcat....and I...(unforunately david) already know what the Party you are a member of stands for...and no ammount of attempts of your part to justify, defend or explain will change my already poor, if not, complete disgust for what your Party represents.
It was an interesting interlude but has now well passed that point...and if your last two posts are anything to go by...it would seem it has no where to go now but down.
Please take this remark I am about to make in the correct context...
I sincerly and deeply hope that I never have to meet, correspond or debate with you or your party on this forum ever again...this is a principle issue david. The seperation of personalties and principles.

Again Bruce and Jcd...Thank you. I have read your inputs with great interest and repeat you are both very articulate and intellegent men and you have my total respect.

Please do not for one second think that because this Thread has not been closed david that it in any way shows supposrt for your party...You did however in my opinion cross the line when you specifically attacked a Member...personal attacks against Members are not encouraged on the Mudcat.

I have ZERO Tolerance regarding Racism regardless of how it is presented and your party is fortunate indeed that I am not a moderator here...for the very first post on this thread would have been sent into cyber space...
Your Political package may look inviting...but I have learned that the box when opened does not reflect the outside cover no matter how attractive the wrapping may seem to be.

I make no apologies for my grammar, my mistakes are due to a known (mild in my case) affliction and not to the rather splendid, free education I received in the UK and for which I am grateful and hope that many other Children from many other Cultures regardless of their skin colour or Ethnic background continue to receive also.

I would end this response usually with a curtious remark david...but none, none come to mind.
So being unable to say anything pleasant to you...

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,DavidHannam BNP
Date: 24 May 05 - 04:57 AM

Bruce you say your ex-father in-law spent time in a WW2 Camp, then i certainly could understand why you would feel an instinctive disgust towards Nazi's, but bear in mind my two grandfathers fought in the second world war against the evil tyranny of Nazism too, so when people accuse me of being a Nazi, i too get highly strung. For me to think otherwise would be an insult to my grandfathers and my family.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,David Hannam BNP
Date: 24 May 05 - 04:49 AM

Brucie, Brucie, Brucie, The fact that you spent the time out of your clearly mundane life, (I take it you don't work?) to spend time correcting my mudcat rushed post, tells me a thousand nuances about you. You are a very sad individual. I was referring in earlier posts not about your grammer, but about your need to resort to inexplicable hurls of abuse. Fuck, Shit, Bullshit, all seem a routine part of your minute by minute thinking. Thankfully, others on here and far more interesting to debate with, so i think we should call a quits on this. Unless you want to come back with another 'clever' retort,though bear in mind it may be your signing on day today.

Brucie wrote:

"As for [THE] person who remarked my post was "Bullshit", [I] understand you find it hard to reply without resorting to crude language of abuse[;] you may even be another case of falling standards of English[--]perhaps in our current education system? But[,] [I] note you never answered any of my points with intellig[e]nt reply[.] Basically, what [I]'m saying in case it is lost on you, is that your post was bullshit.

I, dickhead, am a Colonial. Take a lesson and look sharp about it. "

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,cissco & sonny & ledbelly to.
Date: 24 May 05 - 04:32 AM

its is for us to find in our selfs that what we hold most dear' have we made the world a better place when we go to bed tonight if not who are we to judge.: i would think what we hold most dear is ourselfs, if thats the case we add nothing.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,cissco & sonny & ledbelly to.
Date: 24 May 05 - 04:13 AM

and so do i ted.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 09:58 PM

GUEST:

It is Jcd who deserves the plaudits. He has been cool and erudite with all his posts. I am afraid that my thoughts about Nazis are someone conditioned by my past. My ex father-in-law spent 2 1/2 years in a camp courtesy of those people. Therefore, I seldom even try to reason with them. Nazis bring out the best of the worst in me. Although I am able to construct English text that contains no 'bad' language, when it comes to addressing Nazis I seem not to care about that. However, thank you very much for your kind words.

Sincerely,

Bruce

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 09:25 PM

And, it's not "anti-semetic", it's anti-semitic.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 05 - 09:25 PM

JCD and BRUCIE...articulate, obviously very intelligent Men have asked you questions time and time again that you are either unable to address or are unwilling to answer...may I take the liberty of saying your own words back to you david. I would advise you not to bother posting again on the subject, as you clearly don't have anything useful to add.
In my opinion it would indeed be batter by far if you and your supporters did not post on this forum again on any subject regardless of it's nature.
That is my opinion of course.


Again Thank you Bruce and Jcd for a most illuminating discourse and for providing some very interesting links and background information.
You are both indeed a breath of fresh air in what is most definetly a rather rank and definetly foul subject matter.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Jcd
Date: 23 May 05 - 09:17 PM

Sorry forgot to ask....

To be quite honest, the idea that i am anti-semetic is incredible. This really is nobody's business, but i have a neice who is half-jewish, and i love her more than life.

So why are you supporting your leader Nick Griffin who edited 'The Rune' (an anti semetic publication) and denies the holocaust happened?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Jcd
Date: 23 May 05 - 07:56 PM

David, thankyou for your responses. I have read them and as you know I won't be agreeing with them, for the following reasons -

Your party cites multi culturalism as failing. And your justification for this belief is the current rise in black on black crime. I agree that it is an area of concern, it was I that pointed it out, but it is not indicative of the behaviour of the majority of African/Carribean people. It is a statistic that represents a minority. Would you wish the UK to be judged on the actions of the mindless minority on the football terraces?

You state that rising white male violence is a product of their being under valued etc etc....the same applies to black males. Colour is not the reason David, if so, both groups would not be experiencing the same rise in violence.

There is not just one factor that can be seen as the cause of rising violence within our society. But a number of contributing factors. Unemployment and poverty are the two main reasons for it's rise. These are social issues, that stem from peoples social standing, not their colour.

Currently black females are entering higher education at a higher rate than their white peers. And proportionally they are leaving higher qualified, than their white peers.

Black African males are amongst the most highly qualified of our ex students, yet they have a higher rate of unemployment on leaving educational institutions. Discrimination does already exist in the work place, institutional and otherwise. The Stephen Lawrence report makes good reading, as I am sure you know.

Is it any wonder that black people as a group feel under valued and lack self esteem? They have already been made to feel marginalised and are unable to compete on a level playing field. Now you can either take the view that they don't deserve the same rights as whites, or you can take the view that they are being treated unfairly. It all depends on whether you believe colour should be reason enough to bar individuals success. You take the former view, whereas I take the latter.

It was the Thatcher led Governments that chose to dismiss the findings of the Scarman and Swann reports. They both recommended that a broader multi cultural curriculum would be the key factor in eliminating future prejudice and the problems stemming from that. They both recognised that the children of the immigrants so warmly welcomed to our shores in the 40'sand 50's, were being excluded in the education system. Their specific needs were not being met and their potential not being recognised. These issues are now being addressed. People need role models to aspire to and more black teaching professionals are entering the school system, albeit slowly.

The police force has obvious self created problems, and they need to address them if they wish to attract black serving officers. Until people feel they have a role within organisations, they will not be inclined to join them.

It is totally ludicrous to use the example of one murder at the Notting Hill festival (attended by approx 1.5 million people) as an example of multi culturalism failing. Harold Shipman murdered how many people, do you therefore advocate white male doctors being barred from practising?

You state that 'these' multi cultural festivals start and end in violence. Which ones do you have in mind? How many have you canvassed at? The crime figures do not tally with your preconcieved perceptions of reality.

You say that any political party with a membership from working class people will include many with past convictions. That is insulting to working class people. The BNP always has and always will ( maybe) attract the criminal element that no other party would be proud of or tolerate. It is your leadership where these convictions are the most worrying, except realistically they are not worrying in themself, as you will never be a major power or threat to society. A group of scared people huddling together and preaching hate will always be pitiful, but the damage that you can do to individuals is where the harm lies. It is bullying David.

Which of Nick Griffins opinions do you not support? And have you challenged him on these opinions? How can you claim to have expelled those guilty of 'disgusting utterings' when you follow a man who has made a career from them? I would be really interested to know exactly which opinions he holds that you do not share. And the blanket statement you offered as an answer to that, will not really suffice. Read through Brucie's posts, they contain some of Nick's finest, which of those views precisely do you not share?

You state that you would have no objection to family from 'overseas' joining their family already living here....how does that fit in with your ban on future immigration?

You asked when were the British people asked if they wished to be part of a multi cultural society. I would answer that they were given the opportunity in our last general election to show their feelings on that one. If they all believed/thought as you do, the BNP wouldn't have lost so many deposits. You recieved approx 0.75% of the vote. They didn't vote to support your policies then, that was when they were asked.

Which mp's were you thinking of when you called them perverts? And how is their behaviour perverse?

And as you point out the BNP are 'obviously' not helping third world countries, but the highly qualified medical professionals that we are lucky to have in our midst can send money to their families and in that way can help them also secure a future possibly not available otherwise. Would you refuse life saving treatment from a black doctor? Of course not. If the education system has failed those born and bred in the UK, to the extent where they were unable to gain the qualifications needed, how do you suppose the overseas medics gained them?

Yes David we have many problems at the moment in the UK, but segregation and exclusion are the cause, not the solution. If you genuinely wanted to help in the democratic process towards alleviating our problems, you would be allying yourself with those who are seeking workable solutions, not alienating yourselves within an organisation that wields no power.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 06:15 PM

"As for person who remarked my post was "Bullshit", i understand you find it hard to reply without resorting to crude language of abuse, you may even be another case of falling standards of English perhaps in our current education system? But i note you never answered any of my points with intelligant reply? Basically, what i'm saying in case it is lost on you, is that your post was bullshit."

David, David, David. I seldom do what I am about to do, but for you I will make an exception to the generally-held polite rule that it is bad manners to correct another's English in public. If you cut and paste the above elsewhere, please use the rewritten one I shall herewith provide.

As for [THE] person who remarked my post was "Bullshit", [I] understand you find it hard to reply without resorting to crude language of abuse[;] you may even be another case of falling standards of English[--]perhaps in our current education system? But[,] [I] note you never answered any of my points with intellig[e]nt reply[.] Basically, what [I]'m saying in case it is lost on you, is that your post was bullshit.

I, dickhead, am a Colonial. Take a lesson and look sharp about it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 05:50 PM

So look, Davy, if I ask you PLEASE, with jam and sugar on it, to--hey! how about Sex and Travel? Will that work?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 05:48 PM

WOW!

Well, it was enough to gag me! I particularly enjoyed the letter below. Man, you guys got class--and you plan ahead.


"Dear Mr. Tyndall,

We are now in election mode in the lead up to June 10th. Accordingly I am instructed by the National Chairman to write to you in the following terms:

The many photographs of you in neo-nazi uniform have always been a public relations handicap for the Party. After the end of this week - weekending 18/04/2004 - I am instructing you, with the authority of the National Chairman, not to address meetings of the British National Party until after June 10th. This also applies to any interview requests from the media.

Yours for Race & Nation
A. Lecomber,
Director, Group Development & Regulation"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 05:41 PM

Found some pictures of yer friends . . . .

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 05:34 PM

Listen up, jack. You belong to a racist party in the UK. I do not give a rat's ass how reasonable you think you're being. Your position is untenable. Your words fall on deaf ears. However, I figure if I can keep you tied up here jerkin' off, then you won't be out corrupting kids. That's a good thing.

"i would advise you not to bother posting again on the subject"

And I in turn would advise you to to take your Nazi propaganda elsewhere.

"i understand you find it hard to reply without resorting to crude language"

That's the way I normally talk. You don't have to be so impolite! However, I will change my request from 'fuck off' to "Would you be so kind as to fuck off?" Ya feel better now?

Besides, you haven't told us with which of that idiot's points you DO agree.

Martin, where the hell are you?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,David Hannam BNP
Date: 23 May 05 - 03:56 PM

"If the fringe element has been removed under the leadership of Nicky, you must have had some friggin' lulus. If you are the moderate crew, I am amazed. So even keeled, so polite, and so false. Fuck off".

What your having a go at me been polite? So if i was a shaven-skinhead buffoon hurling abuse your not happy, but your equally unhappy if i show just human politeness to you?

Look, I'm just trying to defend a position with rational debate for and against, fair enough, if your going to attack me for been polite, then really, i would advise you not to bother posting again on the subject, as you clearly don't have anything useful to add.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,David Hannam BNP
Date: 23 May 05 - 03:34 PM

You asked if supported "All" of Nick Griffins comments? Of course not, only a robot could argree with someone completely. I share a common goal to see equality both for native Britons and Ethnic Britons with the BNP. Surely you must accept that human beings are allowed to campaign under the banner of a cause, but disagree with elements of that philosophy, politics, or policies etc? You wouldn't be human if you didn't have your own mind.

As for person who remarked my post was "Bullshit", i understand you find it hard to reply without resorting to crude language of abuse, you may even be another case of falling standards of English perhaps in our current education system? But i note you never answered any of my points with intelligant reply? Basically, what i'm saying in case it is lost on you, is that your post was bullshit.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 03:01 PM

"under the leadership of Nick Griffin, that small fringe-element of the party has been removed."

If the fringe element has been removed under the leadership of Nicky, you must have had some friggin' lulus. If you are the moderate crew, I am amazed. So even keeled, so polite, and so false. Fuck off.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 05 - 02:49 PM

That last question was to David. So David do you support your party leader Nick Griffin? Do you disagree with his comments?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 05 - 02:42 PM

Do you support all the comments of Nick Griffin?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 02:37 PM

I know bullshit when I see it. That's bullshit.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,David Hannam BNP
Date: 23 May 05 - 02:36 PM

Thank you for your lengthy reply, i will try to reply to most points one
at a time.

"The public have been shown to wildly over estimate the number of ethnic
minorities living in the UK. A recent poll showed that the majority
thought a staggering 22.5% of people living in the UK belong to ethnic
minority groups. As you know, this figure is actually three times the true
figure, gleaned from census returns".

In 2001 The Home Office released census forecast figures that specifically
highlighted that if current immigration trends continue and also low
indigenous-population birthrate remains low, the indigenous Britons will
be a minority within 60-100 years. I agree, in many cities folk may
over-estimate the ethnic population for their town/city, however, those
peoples real fears are borne out of the fear of becoming a minotity in the
their own country. Again, if this was any other country in the world, were
the native inhabitants were facing becoming a minority, it would be called
genocide.

Multi-Cultural Britain is of course here to stay, and righfully so, most
ethnics are law-abiding, decent hard working people. The idea that would
should ever have an all-white Britain is simply not feasible or fair.

"The introduction to the census returns, whereby new categories of ethnic
minority groups were listed, the most recent being Irish and Mixed race,
inflated the figures. The true figure of ethnic minority groups living in
the Uk is approx 9.9%. Of which 1.4% are mixed race, and 1.2% being
Irish."

Yes, but crime statistics show a dissproportionate percentage of the total
crime figures consisting of ethnics perpetrators. As you say, in London,
it is more black-on black crime that is the issue, but this merely shows
that multi-culturalism as failed. Blacks do not feel they have an identity
in Britain. Muslims also feel that they are unable to mix, and rightfully
so, why should they, they are simply interested in preserving their own
identity and culture, just as the BNP is concerned about ours.

"I will not respond to your 'fear' that third world countries are being
left to flounder as we poach their people. But perhaps you could tell us
how the BNP is actively helping third world countries, to allay your
'fear' for their survival".

I do not know why you don't want to respond to our fear that the third
world is indeed being looted by successive governments, when those skilled
workers are in so much desperate need back in their home countries. The
BNP is of course not actively helping the Third World, we are more
interested in helping the poverty-stricken child, and more interested in
providing solutions to the problems we face at home. However, do not doubt
that the BNP would bring an eventual end to the huge importing of foreign
nurses/doctors. We would train our own people primarily, and reject
looting the third world of precious skilled workers.

"I do not doubt that some people are charmed by the BNP's new style
concern for the country. But you have to admit that your leadership relies
on some grass root thugs to help spread their word. And your leadership
has in the past not helped your cause and until that changes, along with
your membership policies, the majority of average thinking voters will see
through the charm offensive".

We are mostly a working-class party, and our membership is generally
working class in its make-up, so inevitably we are always going to have
some members with past convictions. In today's Britain, recent Home Office
Stats 2003 showed that 4 in 10 youngsters today will eventually have some
form of criminal conviction/warning etc to their record. Personally
speaking, i would rather have an individual who made a stupid mistake in
the past when young and got carried away at a football match, than the
perverts who infest the main parties.

"When Andy Sykes (a former very high profile BNP member) became
disillusioned with what he found within your organization, he became a
'mole' for the TUC and proved very successful at dispelling the image that
your party tried to portray. The BBC documentary that he helped happen
left no doubts what the underlying attitude amongst both your leaders AND
grass root supporters were. This was last year Dave, are you trying to
tell us that your party has disassociated itself with all of the ideals it
followed less than 12 months ago?"

Actually, Andy Sykes has been revealed that he was working for
Searchlight/BBC from day one, as he has recently confirmed. They had six
months video footage and all they revealed was a few lads at their local
spouting racist utterings. I agree, such utterings are disgusting, and
they were henceforth expelled. I have never pretended this party is
perfect, but i believe as long as we keep aiming to do right, such people
will become less and less.

"Being convicted of inciting race hatred amongst other crimes does not
make your party membership credible".

I think you will find that being convicted of racial hatred in today's
Britain is actually very easy. You can not even question the
multi-cultural experiment without been hounded by the police. Immigration
today is what sex was to the Victorians. Do you believe people should be
imprisoned for 'offending' people, after all, humans have offended each
other for thousands of years, and will do for another thousand years, i
personally do NOT believe in thought-crimes, people should be free to
think what they want.

"Your recent manifesto, while carefully saying that the immigrants here
are welcome, also called for a ban on further immigration. Did you include
white Australians , Americans, Canadians and New Zealanders as groups to
be refused entry? Your party is trying to dissassociate itself with it's
colour ban".

When we say immigrants, we refer to all immigrants whatever their colour,
however, many Britons have family across the seas in such nations as
Canada, New-Zealand etc, if such a case arised were they needed help, they
are our kith-kin, and we should help them. I differentiate between family
across the seas, and asylum-seekers who cross upto 21 Countries simpy to
get to Britain.

"Your call for the reintroduction of capital punishment and National
Service may win a knee jerk support from some quarters. But you then call
for all ex serving National service folk to be able to own and house a
modern assault rifle. These are not policies that try to address the UK
problems in peaceable means".

They do address UK problems. We believe a criminal should not be allowed to enter a persons home and have the upper-hand to terrorise, maim and steal without the innocent victim allowed to retalliant. It is all very well to speak of peacable solutions, but that does not help the poor family who are broken into by violant criminals with unknown intent.

"You claim that cultures can not exist peacably together. That the mix is a
recipe for violence. London has hundreds of multi racial festivals every
year. The BNP should try and canvass at these festivals, to see how people
can merge. The arrests at these events, as you know, are minute, and far
less than those at any internationl football match where English
supporters are tarred by the mindless violence that a minority are
addicted to".

At the Notting Hill Festival two years ago there was not a few minor arrests, but one arrest for MURDER, and the usual huge of spate of anti-social crimes that were committed at that festival. These multi-cultural festivals do not usually start or end in peace.

"You claim that London, amongst other cities, is a hot bed of Asian/Black
versus white violence. This is not the truth Dave, the biggest rise in
London crime stems from black on black violence, borne from a growing drug
and gun culture. These are social problems, who's roots lie in the
poliarising of rich/poor that inner cities are experiencing".

Yes. Black on Black crime is a huge problem, but not a problem the native population ever voted to have heaped upon them. Where is the democracy in that? When were the British people ever asked if they wanted a multi-cultural society? Black on black crime merely shows that young blacks in the UK are without an indentifiable culture of their own, just as many Asian elders now despair what is happening to their children, as they see them engage in yobbery, crime and other forms of western decadance.

"As duelling points out, the biggest threat to your 'average' white person
in our inner cities comes from the growing culture of white excessive
drinking and the policing problems relating to that are too well
documented for me to bore you with"

Increased white crime is a factor of many. The destruction of the family nucleus by successive liberal governments, anti-male measures, instilling in young males a feeling of worthlessness, i.e in school they are taught it is outdated to think of themselves as a bread-winner. Young white-males are also polluted by criminal-american culture that has made its stake in the UK. Unemployment plays a huge factor in white males psyche too.

"Instead of fearing difference, I and the majority of Londoners celebrate
and embrace it. It is possible to recognise and respect others cultures,
while at the same time maintaining your own"

Well Kriss Donald from Glasgow embraced different cultures, he was raised with ethnic cultures, he had friends who were asian, and where did that celebration of multi-culturalism get him? He was murdered because he was white, as admitted by the Judge in that case, tortured, beaten and eyes gouged out.

Now, as for the recent posts 'exposing' my 'criminal past' and the quite alarming tone of many of the messages, i will reply. Actually, if you look at my earlier post, i already alerted you to my past conviction. I wrote:

"As regards my 'conviction', it is true i was convicted for inciting 'racial hatred'. However, i would ask all who are interested to read the true facts of this case. I was 17 at the time, and i made the crucial mistake of trusting an elder member of the then pre-Nick Griffin BNP, and trusting this elder member got me into much trouble. That member was expelled for distributing leaflets in my name without actually informing me. I'm not going to tell you the BNP has always been perfect, when we know very that is has not, but i am saying that for the last 5 years, specifically under the leadership of Nick Griffin, that small fringe-element of the party has been removed.

To be really honest, that incident is the biggest regret of my life. Most people who know me, find the idea of me been anti-semetic laughable, as indeed it is. On a lighter note, not to mention my rather fanatical following of Leonard Cohen and Bob Dylan when both on tour".

As i have said, i was 17 at the time, and the older man who published and distributed that filth in my name, under my Po Box was instantly expelled. I never even saw the leaflet as was revealed in the ensuing court case. I found the contents of that leaflet abhorrant then, and find them abhorrant now and always. To be quite honest, the idea that i am anti-semetic is incredible. This really is nobody's business, but i have a neice who is half-jewish, and i love her more than life. It is wrong for people to call me a 'Nazi' 'Racist', as such an accusation is very serious, and people who say this do not, and to be fair, could not have had all the facts at their disposal, except some dodgy looking BBC website.

I have apologized in the past to every single person who testified against that leaflet, because it was done in my name without my knowledge.

I have come on here as a lover of folk music, and also as a BNP representative. I don't mind critical posts, i don't mind abusive posts to some extent, but what i have read recently puts me off even writing on here anymore. I disagree with many people on here i imagine, but i am not going to start hurling abuse at them the likes of which i have recieved the last two days.

Regards

David

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 01:20 PM

And while I'm at it, where the hell is Martin Gibson? Martin, get yer ass in here and say a few words, will ya?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 01:13 PM

Has it stuck anyone that this BNP crew are like a bad case of crabs?

I may not have told you about the time I got crabs. Anyone want to hear about it? Yes? OK, then, if you insist.

It was in Jacksonville, Florida on a warm day in a deep and dark September (apologies to Paul there)--oh, I've told you about this already? Allow me to change the extended simile.


Has it struck anyone that this BNP crew are like a bad case of clap?

I may not have told you about the time I got clap. Anyone want to hear about it? Yes? OK, then, if you insist.

It was in in Jacksonville, Florida on a warm day in a deep and dark September (apologies to Paul again)--oh, I've told you about this already? Allow me to change the extended simile.


Has it struck anyone that this BNP crew are like a bad case of scabies? I know I never told you about this because I never got scabies in Jacksonville, Florida--so this time I don't have to apologize to Paul!

The British Nazi Party [BNP] are a gang of boys who like to beat up women and anyone they think is 'weaker' than them. Personally, I think you are a crowd of sissies--you wear your mother's underwear and dance before the swastika, probably in heels. I expect you get your sexual gratification from jerking each other off--at least those of you still capable of achieving an erection. As the lady above said, you lost the election. I read your financial statement. You could double the amount in your coffers if you paid a few pounds each time you shagged one another.

Kiddies, the Party's over. You have attracted all the members of the lunatic fringe and there are only sane folks left. Sane people won't vote for you. So, to quote a woman you put the boots to, FUCK OFF.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 12:47 PM

Official BNP Poster Boy

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 12:31 PM

"Thanks David for coming on and putting your view across. I wouldn't, however, bother responding though to people who use such language - they are pathetic and when they resort to such expletives, it shows they have just lost the argument."

Dearest David, honey poo, when you let your crankcase boy off his leash, tell him he should eat my fuckin' shorts.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 05 - 10:42 AM

David did not write a song...If you had read the thread completely and followed the links offered to you, you would know that...CORPORAL FOX (Nick Griffin) was not written by "David"
"artists are precious keep writing david" ......oh dear.
Just so we can all be quiet clear on Griffin's talent as an Artist.
here is some of his, shall we say, more colourful opinions...

"There was nothing there which was outrageous or evil or inciteful or anything like that." Nick Griffin speaking about a BNP social event he attended where jokes about 'niggers' and the Nazi concentration camps were told.

[The BNP needs to be seen as] "a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back-up its slogan 'Rights for Whites' with well directed boots and fists." Nick Griffin

and with Folk Songs too now it would seem...

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: movingmountains
Date: 23 May 05 - 10:31 AM

new to the site and shocked to read all this political backstabbing and personal abuse going on grow up folkies dont shoot the artist cos you dont like the art
all politics is a trap left right its all a con to distract us from sharing and communing from our hearts now. thats the role of art to transform these superficial views of life into a more humanitarian understanding. stead of attacking david ask him to write a song from the other viewpoint put the two together and we may get a better view of the man and the art.
we're all disenfranchised.................in this world only our consciousness can be free........we need our hearts to show the way
artists are precious keep writing david

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 05 - 09:42 AM

It seems a sensible time to close this thread - just a thought.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 05 - 09:00 AM

Born and brought up by yardies.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Jcd
Date: 23 May 05 - 08:38 AM

Once, these crimes were blamed on Yardie gangsters, importing a criminal way of life from Jamaica. Now, the majority of both victims and suspects are young men born and brought up in Britain.


Tha above is part of a statement issued by a Scotland Yard detective.
Check it out. Or not.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 05 - 08:34 AM

They are English.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 05 - 08:32 AM

JCD posted below -

'the biggest rise in London crime stems from BLACK ON BLACK VIOLENCE, borne from a growing drug and gun culture'

That is not exactly a great advert for letting yet more of them into England is it?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Alba
Date: 23 May 05 - 08:03 AM

Hey don't think for this mudcatter...and you ain't a member of my "fellowship" mate.

Your politics LOST in 1945....
Profanity offends you..oh well too bad...Racsim and Anit-Semitism offends me so I guess we are even eh..
I also got a bit offended at the hands of some of your lackies a while back and I am sure that countless people have been offended by your methods of hammering your Political views Home and funny I don't remeber anyone singing from your Party while hammering your points across!

I have NEVER felt the need to literally "hammer" home my politcial values the way you do.

So in saying that.....FUCK YOU David for coming on and putting your view across. I wouldn't, however, bother responding though to ME who used said language - I am a Human being not a bottom dweller like yourself and supporters and when I resort to such expletives, it shows the contempt that I hold for you and your kind.
I do not need anyone to come in a defend my point of view and I am no apologist on this particluar issue...however you need a whole fucking party to that!



If, if, Guest Vot B** (I won't use that kind of language here) is a Member..!!!!!
of this Forum... your aim here was not to promote a Song...your a Liar and a Bigot. Deal with it and your just a bit pissed off that you and yours have been shown to be....I do however have to say the brainwashing is working well and if I didn't know better I might, might be lead to believe that you actually meant what you just posted here......LOL

You will never win....because you lost this argument when you started this thread..oh and by the way..you lost an Election too.

I wasn't conflicted in any way about how I feel....and have neither the desire or need or wish to discuss your Views...so there was no argument to lose...

Last time I will come into this thread..it smells of Shite...go play with your Hilter Action toy Guest or get some balls and show your Mudcat name.......

off to wash my hands now...oh and just so I can be absolutely sure that YOU ARE offend..

FUCK YOU.

I would not be upset if this thread was closed based on the fact that it is NOT related to Folk Music (even if it is said to be) but to a Political Party that promotes Rascism and Violence. Think of it like the subject box reading: Lyr Add: KKK broadcast Folk Song.

If however my profanity had offended anyone OTHER than B** supporters I again apologize and if that is the case my posts will be deleted by Joe Offer or Max.

I will not however EVER support, endorse or ignore ANY attempts by Rascists to infiltrate a Forum that I enjoy...... I have the right to Free Speech also..and rascism affends me a whole lot more that the use of the word fuck!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,VoteBNP
Date: 23 May 05 - 07:28 AM

Of course this thread was about music. I began it with the lyrics to a song - a folk style song - and thought fellow mudcatters would be interested. It may have got slightly away from this, but then many threads on this forum diverge from the initial posting.
Thanks David for coming on and putting your view across. I wouldn't, however, bother responding though to people who use such language - they are pathetic and when they resort to such expletives, it shows they have just lost the argument.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 22 May 05 - 12:35 AM

I would apologize for the language. But this thread is not now nor has it ever been about 'music'. This is about Nazis, pure and simple.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 21 May 05 - 09:10 PM

"The more I learn about this trash the more I wanna stick my fingers down my throat and puke. Fuck off."

Jcd, sorry about the cross-post. That fuck off was meant for the British Nazi Party folks AKA British Nationalist Party, same thing.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:27 PM

So BNP stands for British Nazi Party, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: Peace
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:24 PM

The more I learn about this trash the more I wanna stick my fingers down my throat and puke. Fuck off.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: BNP broadcast folk song
From: GUEST,Jcd
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:24 PM

David Hannam posted below -

I'm not going to tell you the BNP has always been perfect, when we know very that is has not, but i am saying that for the last 5 years, specifically under the leadership of Nick Griffin, that small fringe-element of the party has been removed.

Yes Brucie, that is the same Nick Griffin that David holds in such esteem.