Folk artists who are pagan

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 09:57 PM

look lets cut to the chase.......
do you dance round in the nude, collect herbs at midnight, cast spells, drink from ornate chalices and other exciting stuff.

I mean the showbiz angle is important.....

Subject: Heretic Heart URL
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 08:55 PM

Presumably as a result of the late corruption of Mudcat's hard disks, the message number in which the text and MIDI link of Barbara's Heretic Heart has changed. If anyone (like me) had a link to it in your webpages, probably better update it or at least check it. The message number should be 1468253 (it was originally 147something). I also have the song in La Lilandejo at Heretic Heart.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: DOpfer
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 06:07 PM

Myself, I'm an agnostic dyslexic with insomnia. I lay awake night's wondering if there really is a Dog.

DanO

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:28 PM

Thanks to Blessings Barbara, we have a MIDI for "Heretic Heart." Thanks, Barbara.
-Joe Offer-

---

Click to play

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 03:01 PM

Evidence? (And who said that I was using the Internet as a primary source? I said if you bothered to do a little bit of basic research you might find something... Ahhhhhhh! What's the point!)

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM

Well, if you are using the internet as your primary source, that explains your ignorance.

Try going to a library with a decent, current encyclopedia of religion, and then come talk to me.

"Buddhism is very explicit about not using violence."

Oh please. Westerners who romanticize 'Buddhism' (as if it were a monolithic, ancient religion, which it is not) like you just did are downright dangerous to public health.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 01:27 PM

Guest 3:34 - You are a bloody ignoramus. Try doing a Google on the history & origins of kung fu & you will quickly find out how uninformed you really are. For the Shaolin to qualify as 'soldier' monks they would have to, as an organization, actively seek out (or at least train with a view to being involved in) conflict which, to the best of my knowledge, they never have.

They are not the European knightly orders (the Templars, Hospitallers, Teutons, etc). They have never fought as a body unless persecuted. Lastly, kung fu, by a very strict definition, is not even a martial art. It's a movement art; like Tai Chi & Aikido; that has self-defense applications. And Buddhism is very explicit about not using violence. If the occasional professed individual breaks that instruction, this is not a reason to claim that the group's philosophy is therefore invalid.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 06:39 AM

Eric the Red...why do you read them then? No one is forcing you!

I second that Cats...Happy Beltane everyone!!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Cats
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:28 AM

All good thoughts and wishes to all, pagan or not, at one of the most important times in our calendar, Beltane.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:23 AM

So whats the difference? all these ' folk artists who are ? ' threads are feckin stoopid anyway. Who cares as long as the music and craic is good.

eric

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 12:43 AM

darn. I clicked on this thinking it was the 'Folk Artists who are Bacon' thread. my mistake

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 08:01 PM

Im a Communist so religion isnt in me little red book lol

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 02:07 PM

Dar Williams on her CD "Mortal City" had a song called "Christians and Pagans". It's a little ditty about visiting relatives at Christmas when they know you are a pagan celebrating the winter solstice, not Christmas. I don't know if it is autobiographical, but it is a nice tune.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Barbara
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:25 AM

I've shipped a tune off for Heretic Heart; hopefully a link will appear here soon.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:09 AM

And I first got into filk songs when I started going to SF & Fantasy cons. Religions didn't enter into it.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 07:26 PM

Oh, and hi Susan! See 'ya at OVFF? 8-)

-- Gary

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 07:25 PM

Responding to one of the GUESTs:

Heathen, not pagan. Does that count? And I'm guessing everyone affiliated with filk has heathen/pagan leanings.

Watch the generalizations there. Yes, there are a number of pagan/Wiccan folks in the filk community. Yes, a number of very prominent performers in the community are. But not everyone.

I for one am Jewish, though not an observant one, and a number of my friends in the community are Orthodox. I also know a couple of Catholics and a couple of other devout Christians.

-- Gary

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:34 PM

Right, they developed their martial arts just as a means of showing how peaceful they were to their enemies. They never fought as solidiers.

Sure.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM

I am also pagan. :0)

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:04 PM

apparently they don't know their Buddhist history of Shaolin soldier monks

Apparently, Anonymous Guest, you don't know your Buddhist history of Shaolin soldier monks either. Like the minor fact that they have never been "soldier monks".

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:59 PM

While humans invariably have a gender, most theologians and serious metaphysical thinkers would agree that any superhuman Being would necessarily transcend gender. "Man and woman He created them . . . in His own image and likeness" would seem to imply that neither man nor woman alone matches up to an image of the Deity, but that their complementary and different natures together somehow reflect that Divine image.

Of course, the patriarchal religious establishments that have dominated human history have incorrectly skewed the image of God as inappropriately male, so the neopagan usage of "Goddess," while equally wrong, at least stands as an effort to counterbalance the prevailing image held not only by the "outside world," but even by the pagans themselves, at least during their earlier years.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:34 PM

"In many languages gender is assigned to furniture. Is that a clue of some kind?"

Yes, actually. It is. Very specific clues to that culture's beliefs regarding gender, and how they associate material things with gender roles.

"It's just an extension of nature to give gender specifics to other items. To call the moon female is a step of logic."

That's very funny, but I don't think it was intended to be. Thanks for proving my point.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:44 PM

Yessssssss.. I'd have trouble singing that line with a straight face!

I'd substitute 'live' for 'come'... still makes sense and isn't open to other interpretations......

GUEST 8.07 - Nature is divided into Male and Female - you can't get life without a sperm to fertilise an egg, whether that egg is an embryo, a shelled egg, a seed, nut or berry.... there is a male plant/animal and a female plant/animal. It's just an extension of nature to give gender specifics to other items. To call the moon female is a step of logic. A full moon appears every 28 days or so, a mature woman will menstruate every 28 days or so, ergo, the moon becomes feminine. *I* know it's just a lump of inanimate, sterile, sexless rock, covered in dust and golfballs, that only appears to wax and wane; but that doesn't take away the magical sight of a bright white sliver like a nail paring growing to a great glowing orb with ghostly shadows and hidden images.

We could say that ALL religions and beliefs are human constructs.. but then that's what we ARE... humans with a gender.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: EagleWing
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:42 PM

As a heathen, I have to say one of the things I find silliest about the pagan thing is the same thing I find silliest about all polytheism, which is the practice of assigning gender to planets, deities, etc.

Shouldn't that be a clue that such beliefs are purely human constructs?

In many languages gender is assigned to furniture. Is that a clue of some kind?

Frank L.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:30 PM

Holly Tannen "Between the Worlds" is where I learned it, Amos, and I bet I could post you a tune shortly. Cool song, ain't it? Tho I have trouble singing the line "I come by my own hand". I have been told that in England, it means "I work for myself rather than someone else"
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 09:41 AM

This from someone who doesn't even identify themselves...

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 08:07 AM

As a heathen, I have to say one of the things I find silliest about the pagan thing is the same thing I find silliest about all polytheism, which is the practice of assigning gender to planets, deities, etc.

Shouldn't that be a clue that such beliefs are purely human constructs?

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:38 AM

Barbara:

What a find! Thanks so much!! Must find the recording!


A

Subject: ADD: Heretic Heart (Catherine Madsen)
From: Barbara
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:57 PM

Before we get too far from music, here:

HERETIC HEART
(Catherine Madsen)

I am a bold and a pagan soul
Come rambling thru this land
I judge the world by my own rights,
And I come by my own hand.
And if you asked me how I've learned
To live so joyously:
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

My mother lives her life in fear
My father's an angry man
But I have sung at the ancient rites
And danced on holy land.
I sing the seed out of the ground
And the bird down from the tree
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

I once was found but now I gone
Out of the faithful fold
Of those who think that holiness
Is to do as you are told
Though man and scripture, priest and law
have all instructed me,
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

They tell me Jesus loves me;
I fear he must love in vain.
For what can any Man-god know
Of woman's secret pain?
My healer is the lady moon
Whose tides run deep in me;
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

So while I breathe this glorious air
An outlaw I'll remain
My body may not be subdued;
My soul shall not be saved.
And where I may not shout out loud
I'll sing it secretly --
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

---

Click to play

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: coldjam
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:43 PM

Well we all know that the difference between pagans and heathens is that pagans... wear socks... or maybe it's that pagans have holidays and heathens... just have to party... (wait for it)...for the hell of it.Ba dumdum.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 10:57 PM

Well you know, those Mormons tend to be the marrying kind...

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: mandoleer
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM

Nice one, Liz! Another Pagan here. Not as deep in as one of my cousins, who is a High Priestess in two different orders and well in with Native American stuff as well. And on very good terms with the local Mormons, for some strange reason... One even wanted to marry one of her daughters!

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Polly Squeezebox
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM

Hmmmmm ............ Would that co-relate to the history of the Knights Templars, the realities of other contemporary patriarchal religions and the sexual abuse of young members of the congregation by some Ministers?

There are shadows in all the religions - or rather FROM the FOLLOWERS of all religions. Hopefully, we all look for, recognise and deal with the shadow side of ourselves - by whatever route or system of tenets.

Polly

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 09:54 AM

I especially am entertained by people who believe Buddhism is "non-violent" and "non-sexist" (apparently they don't know their Buddhist history of Shaolin soldier monks, or the realities of contemporary Asian societies, which includes downloading porn on the temple computers!)

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 09:36 AM

As is often heard in Pagan and other non-Christian circles: If only more Christians would follow the teachings of Christ.

I'd have to say that the Christians at Mudcat do a better job of that than many I've known.

(this with the proviso that there are plenty people who call themselves Pagan, Muslim, Jewish, UU, Hindu, etc, etc, that fall much short of the ideal and use their religion in stupid ways.)

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: MBSLynne
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 07:23 AM

Fortunately, it's one that a lot of folkies take, no matter what their religious beliefs, or lack of them. I'm Pagan and I agree with every word Liz said

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Nellie Clatt
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM

Now that's a good attitude Liz.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:44 AM

Not really Eric, but it's given us a good discussion about semantics and brings a lot of insight into some of the songs people write or perform.

I'm Christian. I've got a lot of friends who are not. Apart from one or two differences, basically the tennents are the same... the major ones being 'harm no-one' and 'do unto others as you would be done by'.

I don't sing exclusively Christian songs, but neither do I omit 'pagan' songs. If I felt it was right, I'd do 'The Burning Times' just as if I felt it were right, I'd do 'Christ is my strength and refuge' (it goes to the Dambusters march). Mostly I do songs about life, and all religion is about life or afterlife.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:24 AM

Is this thread really relavent to anything ?

eric

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: open mike
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:55 PM

i started this thread as a play on words, mostly.
although Vegan and pagan usually do not rhyme..
Veeegan and Paaagan.

but i am glad that so many have posted their
ideas and ideals here.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Polly Squeezebox
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:01 PM

I hate labelling - but I guess I'll own this one, the path I follow usually being described by me as Celtic Paganism. I do tend to empathize with the leanings of other spiritualities though - particularly Buddhism. I prefer to think that it does not matter which path you take up the mountain, just so long as you reach the summit eventually. Some people are happier following a longer circuitous route - whilst others (like true peak baggers) go by a more strenuous uphill and direct route - horses for courses. Wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same!

Bright Blessings,

Polly.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: My guru always said
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:18 PM

Reckon I must be a Bitsa.... Never tried to label myself, just believe in the power of good / life / fate / nature & music. Oh, and Real Ale *grin*

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:47 PM

I'm an agnostic. I think.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:45 PM

Also remember that people use the terms to define themselves. People may not like that, but that's the way it goes. Many people who follow Norse/Teutonic religions such as Asatru call themselves Pagan. I don't fully understand why, as the two I know who do so seem to do so merely to seperate themselves religiously from the Wicca-based Pagans with which they are friends. I don't know if this the the sole reason.

I am a Unitairan Universalist Pagan Athiest. And no, I won't bother defining that for you. I've described myself at Mudcat more than once, so feel free to do a search.

Blackcatter

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:43 PM

We were vegans and pagans from the day we were born
Nurtured on soya milk, fruit, veg and Quorn
We've never worn leather or feathers or fur
So we freeze while the amoral heathens prosper


(Sorry)

Kitty

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Haruo
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:30 PM

Etymologically, both pagan and heathen mean "rural"; "pagan" is "of the country(side)", cognate with Italian "paisano" and less erudite English "peasant". Heathen, on the other hand, is from an Indo-European root meaning "forest, untilled land". Looks to me like this means "heathens" are less civilized than "pagans", though along a shared line leading away from us* urban believers.

Haruo
*"us" here refers to the folks who coined the terms, not you and/or me

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Susan Urban
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:29 PM

I define myself these days as a Unitarian Universalist Humano-Pagan.

And yes, I believe, from The Charge of the Goddess, that "all acts of love and pleasure are her rituals," although I prefer to think of the divine as masculine, feminine and/or neither as it manifests itself in all of its different aspects. A friend of mine came up with a term for this that I feel comfortable with - "The Great Whatever."

And I also define my activity as a folk artist as "Literary Songwriter," meaning that I write songs in the older folk tradition of looking out at the world, rather than only inside myself, for the stories and situations in my songs (if you don't get it, think of Harry Chapin, Steve Goodman, Malvina Reynolds, Tom Paxton). Many of my songs are what I would consider Pagan, that is, they speak of the oneness of all and the importance of our connection with the natural world and each other.

I often conduct music-based services for Unitarian Univeralist churches that focus on Pagan holidays, such as Winter and Summer Solstice, Spring and Autumnal Equinox, Lammas and Imbolc - although I have many other musical UU services, two of which are on the Beatles and Janis Joplin. And there are a number of wonderful musicians who work with me on these services, such as Sandy Andina, Phil Cooper, Kate Early, Karen Mooney, Kathryn & Caitlin Morski, and Ingrid Frances Stark. Some of these folks would define themselves as Pagan, some as just having Pagan leanings, but they sure wouldn't participate in the services if they didn't have those leanings.

So yes, as a young man I met taking tickets in the Kansas City Airport who happened to be wearing a Pentagram, "we are everywhere."

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: MBSLynne
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:08 PM

One of the things that many Pagan's believe is that "All acts of love and joy are gifts of the Godess" so that covers the delighting in sensual pleasures bit...

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: fat B****rd
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:37 PM

I think I'm paganostic.

Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Schwa
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:29 PM

Aren't all pagans anorexic? Whoops, sorry wrong thread!!