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BS: Assaults upon Teachers
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Subject: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST Date: 01 May 05 - 12:34 AM RESOURCES for Teachers submitted to violence in the classroom Let me go nameless...but to the clones.
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST,A Date: 01 May 05 - 12:43 AM I trust you have the legal assistance of your professional association. And I hope they advise you to sue for damages--both the parents of the child and the school/school board for which you work. Did you file an assault charge when you were first struck? I hope so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: dianavan Date: 01 May 05 - 01:49 AM This student should have been removed from your class after the first incident. There is no excuse for the second incident and no excuse for your response to the incident. I doubt if the union can protect you at this point. It should never have gone this far. I'm a teacher, too. I, too, have been injured by a student but I have never been tempted to strike back. Thats just not what teachers do. Get a grip and start using your brain instead of reacting to violence with violence. You should still be entitled to Workmans compensation. When that runs out, apply for short term disability, if necessary. Don't go back into the classroom until you can control your anger and/or your fear. I, too, do not encourage young people to become teachers. Who needs to answer to the government (at three levels); the principal, your staff and the parents. All the while you have to be nice, accomodating and flexible. You can never please everybody no matter how hard you try and the stress is enormous. On the other hand, if it is a calling, you have to become a teacher and you do the best you can. Good luck and get well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 01 May 05 - 03:40 AM The door for students to assault teachers was kicked wide open the day they removed the sanction of corporal punishment from the teachers' armoury. When I was at school (in the UK in the '50s and '60s) assaults by students on teachers weren't just unknown, they were absolutely unimaginable. The reason? At least six strokes of the cane (or the tawse if you were in Scotland), administered by the head-teacher, in front of the whole school if the offence was considered sufficiently serious for a very vivid warning to be given to the rest of the school. Students knew precisely where the line was, and they dare not cross it - the pain and humiliation were too high a price to pay. It's called discipline. I know you PC-types will shout me down and throw all the psycho-horse-manure around but, trust me, it seriously concentrated the minds of would-be young thugs as to why they shouldn't do it. S:0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: alanabit Date: 01 May 05 - 04:04 AM Johnny, can you seriously imagine anyone anywhere in a modern school prostrating their body without restraint to receive a beating? More especially, can you imagine it being a powerful youth, who is willing to use physical violence against an adult in a position of authority? Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of what you appear to be proposing, this sort of a beating is not just impossible nowadays, it is unimaginable! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST Date: 01 May 05 - 04:25 AM Yes, get well and I do hope your grammar and spelling improves also. By the way, what does defie, defie and defie mean? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Cats Date: 01 May 05 - 05:18 AM As a Union Official I would advise to you to get on to your Union today. If anything like this happens it must be reported, in writing, immediatley. It's a pretty poor school that let's a situation like this go by and does nothing about it, although I am only speaking about the uk and cannot comment on anywhere else. We cannot help over the net, you must get your Union's legal department on to it now or you stand to lose so much. If you don't belong to a Union then go to a solicitor and get proper advice as a union is not allowed to work on cases retrospectively, before you were a member. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: ejsant Date: 01 May 05 - 06:01 AM I'm with Johnny. Unfortunately social policy has not only curtailed discipline in the schools it has also curtailed it in the home. Discipline is an absolute must in any society and needs to be administered swiftly and consistently when behavior inconsistent with peaceful coexistence is demonstrated. The adopting of any social policy that curtails all action for the sake of obviating a relatively small occurrence of unwanted actions has clearly proven to be an ineffective approach. Just look at the occurrence of either child or spousal abuse. The number of occurrences has not gone down. The child protective services agencies have not shrunk in size. The numbers of laws relating to these most despicable actions have continued to expand. I think it high time the Social Engineers recognize this. If not we will be handcuffing and shackling more and more five year olds. Peace, Ed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 01 May 05 - 06:11 AM Alanabit -it was the norm and it was standard throughout education. Had the standard, and people's standards, remained in place yes, they would have accepted their punishment as we had to - 'like a man' as the saying goes - because to do otherwise was viewed by all (teachers, punishees, students (or 'pupils' as we were called then) and parents alike) as totally unacceptable. It's Pavlov's Dog, it's action and consequence, and it was trained into us. When the know-it-all-liberal-do-gooders deliberately kicked the rug out from beneath the teachers' feet by banning corporal punishment, (and BTW encouraging students to challenge authority) they announced to the would-be-thugs and barrack-room lawyers that they could behave any way they wanted. Some of us predicted where it would lead and, as usual, we were told by these head-up-own-arse-pseudo-intellectuals that we didn't understand and were old-fashioned and inhumane. They believed their own bullshit. Sorry to have to say it but here goes - "I TOLD YOU SO". We had students who were big guys back then, and who were very capable in the fisticuffs department. They might well punch another kid's lights out, but they just didn't take a poke at a teacher because they simply daren't. S:0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 01 May 05 - 01:21 PM Far better the warm hand of a loving parent applied liberaly in youth than the cold logic of a judge and jury in adolescence. The worst form of child abuse in society is a lack of discipline at home and at school. We are generating a society scared to defend itself from abusive children, and scared to speak up and help teachers who try to deal with them at school. Assault is assault and you have a right to defend yourself from it, restrain them and if you hurt them in the process I think its their fault not yours. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Peace Date: 01 May 05 - 01:33 PM Take Cats' advice and speak with your union or association. Say nothing to anyone without legal representation present (YOUR legal representation present). I trust you have documented all of it, in writing. If you haven't, do so now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: John Hardly Date: 01 May 05 - 01:41 PM Maybe you ought to have it documented in someone else's writing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: alanabit Date: 01 May 05 - 01:45 PM To Johnny Dave and Ed, I have some sympathy with your sentiments. I went to a school in which canings were common. It was an all boys baording school of 700. At The Royal Hospital School, Holbrook, canings averaged two a week. They were virtually mandatory for homosexuality, stealing, vandalism of any sort, rudeness to teachers and "doing a bunk". A lot of features of the school discipline would have warmed your hearts and a lot of what you say about the impossibility of an assault on a teacher is true. I am afraid that is only one side of the coin though. Most of the teachers there were very dedicated men, who were very committed to providing a service to children. On the other side, there were some who were not. In fact, one or two of these filled me with fear as a boy and now they fill me with contempt as a grown man. There was absolutely nothing that could be done to remove them or even restrain them in any way. Despicable as I find assaults on teachers, I am very pleased that the system which allowed a minority of very wicked men to get away with vicious assaults on small children indefinitely has had its day. Corporal punishment has gone the way of the hangman's noose, the fox hunt, the guillotine, the pillory and all those other pillars of another age. It was another age. I feel no nostalgia for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 01 May 05 - 01:54 PM Well the other side of the coin is the vandalism, violence, destruction of property, theft, drug use and extortion practised inside and outside some high schools today. I think the minority of teachers that could be considered abusive, would be dealt with very effectively by the law. I regret to say the social engineering of the 70's and 80's has created a monster, and I dont think it will be cured as quickly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: robomatic Date: 01 May 05 - 02:16 PM This thread calls forth the problem more than the solution. The near incomprehensibility of the initial post leaves all in doubt. I would think a teacher in more than name only would 1) TAKE A NAME 2) Express him/herself with a logical frame of the event and incidents surrounding the event. 3) Refrain from implying an ethnic generalization. Coming amongst the jumbled narrative of what actually happened, that was downright offensive. I attended school in an era where neither the teacher nor the student was expected to come close to physicality. I heard about a teacher (with a known temper) who physically attacked a student and was either canned or forced to take time off, I can't remember which. I've been a substitute teacher in the recent past, and came close to physicality one time when a special needs student, who was much larger than any student in the class, and was supposed to be accompanied by his own handler, left my classroom without permission. I did try to restrain him and get him back into the room, but he was a tough little sucker with a low center of gravity. I came to my senses and went back to my post and reported it. (I was told later that he had caused a broken leg and a miscarriage). But Strollin' Johnny is dead wrong when he or anyone else links current student violence with the lack of violence on the part of teachers. All that corporal punishment teaches is that violence solves problems. What has created a change is when parents do not back the teachers and when the teachers get no backing from their administration. This teaches everybody contempt for the system. Being a teacher is one of the most important jobs a free society can have. In US society it is also one of the least appreciated and compensated. Attacking a teacher should be considered worse than attacking a cop in our society. It should be treated by the system. The classroom If it HAS to come to that, a teacher should lay down the law and it should apply to everybody. But the teacher has to be CAPABLE of laying down the law in a way that does not detract from the goal at hand, to get knowledge through the thick little skulls of our kids. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Peace Date: 01 May 05 - 02:26 PM That was said very well, Robo. The ultimate 'defense' position for a teacher is this: Because teachers are charged with acting in 'loco parentis' (in the place of the parent), teachers must respond to situations involving students in the same way a 'reasonable' parent would given the same set of circumstances. Ultimately, it rides on that. The strap, which I received a number of times when I was a student, taught me nothing--not about justice, not about fairness, not about a damn thing. I would never use it today on a student. In fact, I left an interview about fifteen years back after the super and the principal said that "we use the strap here." I replied, "Not on my students you don't." Of course, the interview was over. The issue of self defense is another ball of wax. If a teacher behaved as a reasonable parent would have, things look good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: sapper82 Date: 01 May 05 - 03:43 PM Within the past year in the UK we have had two teachers raped in class. Both times the Unions, Local Education Authorities and School Management came out with the same platitudes that these were rare and regrettable events. BULSHIT!! They were simply the latest and most extreme assaults in a trend that has been growing since the '70s. I qualified as a teacher 4y ago and bailed out of the profession after 2. I found it impossible to teach in a system where, under the "inclusion" policy, the "right" of the child to disrupt a class was valued over the right of the rest of the class to an education. We now have the least physically chastised younger generation that we have ever had. In return we have the most abusive, disrespectful, disruptive and violent younger generation ever. And it is going to get worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: dianavan Date: 01 May 05 - 04:03 PM robo said it best. Most teachers have good classroom management and discipline techniques that usually work without resorting to physical violence. Occasionally they need the backing of the principal. They also need the support of parents and the community. They absolutely need government funding to provide for students who have needs over and above what can reasonable be expected in the classroom environment. Unfortunately, teachers are not given that support. They are expected to be babysitters, social workers and cops. Teachers are not trained to do this. When a teacher is assaulted, the principal and the school board should not need the union to pressure them to take action. Unfortunately, that is often the only protection a teacher has. Unless society as a whole respects the teaching profession, the students certainly will not respect the teachers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Peace Date: 01 May 05 - 04:15 PM Read this, SVP. It pertains to most instances of violent behaviour. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 May 05 - 08:53 PM Where did that about Mexicans fit in, and was it supposed to imply something? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 02 May 05 - 02:46 AM None are so blind as they who will not see. The evidence is there but they are so brainwashed by PC garbage they refuse to even consider it. Fine by me guys, I don't teach so I don't have to face the classroom thug, and I don't give a shit. But if you won't accept the obvious, then stop moaning when you suffer the consequences of the lunatic decisions of the social engineers which you support. While your heads were in the clouds, they kicked your feet out from under you. S:0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: alanabit Date: 02 May 05 - 02:47 AM First up thanks to Brucie on the excellent article on bullying. I agree in part with the anaysis of Dave, if not with the solution he proposes. I believe he is right to point out that children should already have a knowledge of what behaviour is acceptable before they ever enter a classroom. That is obviously true. I also think it is quite unreasonable to expect teachers to belatedly take over the parents role of setting acceptable standards for the students. I recall student teachers writing a lesson plan which recorded the objective as, "To control the class". This simply meant that at some stage in the lesson, all the bottoms would be on all the seats. It is quite unreasonable to expect teachers to control and educate children who do not have even the basic skills of discipline, restraint and participation. Better parenting will inevitably help to result in better schooling. What really needs doing is the reintroduction of parental responsibility. I have no right to send uneducatable children to school. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Crystal Date: 02 May 05 - 03:39 AM The school I went to did not suffer so much from assults on teachers, but had a horribly high rate of bullying, both physical and mental. I suffered from several vicious physical assults during my time at school, the first time I, very properly, told my mother, who recomended I write down what had happened and other incidents of bullying, and give the statement to the head teacher, my form tutour and our head of year. I did. It seemed like a good idea, I wrote down the injuries I sustained (some serious bruising to my legs and back, cuts and grazes and a bump on the head) and the chain of events leading up to it, named names, and handed it in. Great, they can't ignore hard copy evidance we thought. The response, to call the perpetrators into the head of years office and say "please don't do it again". Nothing else. A few weeks later I was assulted by a fellow pupil after a games session, she punched me hard in the stomach in front of several whitnesses, I couldn't breath after that and was lying on the changing room floor turning blue (according to friends). The P.E teacher who had been called by someone (and put into posession of all the facts!) appered and told me to "stop being silly". She then plesantly told the girl who had hit me to "finish getting changed dear" and walked off, no action was taken, probably because I was not popular with the P.E department and she was. My point is that this kind of viciousness is endemic and is propped up by a legal system which will take the word of the bully over the word of the victim. Bullying is covertly encouraged and those of us on the recieving end end up damaged for life be they adults or children. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Kaleea Date: 02 May 05 - 04:26 AM Q: When educators are not allowed by the principal to use any method of discipline except to have students copy the definition of the word "respect" from a thin paperback dictionary X times, how do you think this will keep the students from showing total disrespect for teachers & administration? A: There is no discipline. That is exactly the situation I was in during the last year which I was teaching--in the mid 80's. The way we were supposed to use discipline was to "catch" the kid in the act of doing something correct & praise them for it. This was supposed to take care of all discipline problems. This might work for a few children, but certainly not with the rough kids we had at that school. When discussing it with some very experienced teachers once, one of them satirically quipped, "Thank you for not blowing up the USA today, mr. kadaffi, here's a sticker." (it gives me chills now to think of THAT!) The kindergarten teacher finally called a mother at home, in frustration, because the little boy refused to pee into the toilet, but insisted on peeing all over the walls & the floor of the boys' room. The mother sighed & said she had the same problem with the kids father & the older brothers, too. The same principal told me & the 3rd grade teacher that if we suspected any kind of child abuse re a specific child who came back after a long absence with severe burns over half her body & other injuries--we were not to report it or else we'd be fired. She said the school system didn't need any more lawsuits. **This is true--I couldn't make this stuff up!!** Sometimes it's easy to blame the teachers. It is certainly not easy for parents these days to instill discipline in themselves, much less their children. I keep hearing many people preaching about fundamental "Christianity" and how people should vote for leaders with morals--do they think that their kids are going to learn these morals through osmosis via the elected officials? If every preacher would get behind the pulpit each Sunday & preach that people must be responsible & truly live by the rules they spout--like they should behave kindly when behind the wheel & road rage is not allowed--, that parents are responsible for the words, actions & attitudes of their children, that parents must teach by example, things might be different. I'm not holding my breath. I'm not teaching, either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 02 May 05 - 04:43 AM Crystal makes a good point. My own experience when my son was bullied in a rural school, was that half the teachers were related to the parents of the other kids and would not do anything about it. Because we were foreigners, it was always my sons fault. After several attempts to reason with the school staff, and other parents, I gave up. My son decked two of the bullies, after I taught him how to defend himself, and the bullying stopped. One reason it stopped was I let the Principal know that if my son was suspended for fighting, I would take time off work and he would enjoy ice cream, movies,and have fun every day of his suspension. When I visited the school on one occasion a young lad charged me and head butted me in my stomach. I was prepared so he hurt his head, and fell down heavily, this was in front of witnesses both adults and children. I helped him up and told him he should be more careful because if I had fallen on him it would have hurt a lot more. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: George Papavgeris Date: 02 May 05 - 05:50 AM That was a great article Brucie, and I have to say it rings true: Contempt rather than conflict being the cause of bullying, I mean. At school I once received ten whacks on the open palm with a ruler in front of the class for having lied, and I will never forget it. Not the pain, that was nothing; but the shame will always stay with me. Not the shame of being singled out, but shame for having lied. You see, despite the fact that there was corporal punishment meted out at my school, that was almost incidental. Society then was such that the shame of having committed the "crime", whatever it was, was sufficient deterrent by itself. It was not the beating that deterred. Now society is different, and while I agree that corporal punishment teaches nothing, it has not been replaced with any other (non-corporal) kind of public punishment. On top of that, the values in society are such nowadays, that lying or bullying would not necessarily confer shame on the miscreant - the only shame is from being caught. We are not "building" a disaster - we have built it already, and we are now enjoying the fruits of our well-intentioned social engineering. I wouldn't know how to start to put it right, but I believe one thing: As long as society's values are the ones we have today, no tinkering with the system will have much effect. And I worry about my son. He graduated last year and started on his first teaching job (kindies). It saddened me that his first consideration upon graduating was to join the Union and get legal protection. It saddened me not because it was the wrong thing to do (it wasn't), but because he had already been taught at the Uni that as a teacher he will be under attack and under suspicion all his working life. No cuddling a little kindie student who grazed his knee, no talking to the kids behind closed doors, his back must always be covered. For a sweet lad of 23, married with 2 children of his own, yesterday's kid himself, to have to do that at the start of his teaching career, is an indictment on us and the society we built. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST,JTT Date: 02 May 05 - 09:40 AM Surely allowing teachers to assault students is *not the solution to assaults on teachers! I see the problem as part of a larger one in western society. We just don't like each other or trust each other any more. And we've lost our self-respect. Go into a shop and you'll probably find an assistant standing behind the counter with a puss on her, chatting to her mates, and treating the customers as an inconvenience. Leave your expensive mobile phone behind on the bus and it will almost certainly be stolen by its finder. Leave your house door open and you risk the house being robbed by a passer-by. I don't know what's happened, but I get the strong impression that the West is in the grip of a collective nervous breakdown. The idea of students and teachers treating each other as enemies, as demonstrated by this thread, is typical of the way of thinking that has become common. How do we get back our pride? How do we start to respect ourselves again, so we won't steal our neighbours' stuff, so we'll care about our work, so we'll like each other? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Peace Date: 02 May 05 - 12:07 PM I respect and admire Coloroso's views. Remarkable, intelligent gal. I had the pleasure of hearing her address the bullying issue in Edson, Alberta. Her points certainly clarify the issue. I began to appreciate her wisdom years ago when she spoke to the issue of kids who put their boots on the wrong feet. She would ask the audience if anyone stressed over that. Usually 2/3 would shoot their hands up. She asked why. When the boots hurt the child's feet the child will put them on the right feet. Small thing, but she has the ability to see issues very clearly, and the ability to put solutions into words. Something else she mentioned is this: It is a big mistake to keep rewarding children because they 'do something nice'. We started that four decades ago, and now it is expected. (These phony 'catch someone doing a good turn for another' and they get a reward. How sad.) Now, these things are here to haunt us, and until we approach bullying and violence in a manner that 1) protects the bullied 2) corrects the bully-er 3) educates the third parties as to their role in the scheme of things the cycles will continue. Coloroso also gave three rules (three gems actually) to discern the difference between tattling and telling. She will ask the child into, out of, don't know If the child is talking to her to get anothe child into trouble, that is tattling. If it's to get another child out of trouble, that is telling. Don't know means it's a situation that should be looked into PDQ. The woman is brilliant. Her books are worth reading. She has much to teach. Would I had a tenth her insight and wisdom. BM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: M.Ted Date: 02 May 05 - 02:53 PM I doubt that the initial poster is telling us the whole story. As a former teacher, I know that part of every teacher 's trade is explaining what happened in the classroom and why it happened. Teachers also know how to spell, and they can express their thoughts in complete, and grammatical sentences. Also, every teacher I have even known was able to say what they needed to without ranting incoherently against Mexicans. So tell us, please, what prompted the fifteen year old to commit a felonious assault on you? If there was a previous assault, why was it ignored? If you knew the student would attack you from behind, why did you have your back to him? And did you punch to stop the "two solid physical contacts", or as an angry response to them? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST,JTT Date: 02 May 05 - 03:16 PM Incidentally, is anyone on the right side of the Atlantic watching the Channel 4 series Good Behaviour? I saw the first programme last year, but then got rid of my English channels, so can't watch the new series. Apparently next Tuesday's is about a 13-year-old ADHD-diagnosed truant, totally out of control, who has his mother so heartscalded that at the beginning of the programme she's considering suicide. Warwick Dyer, the advisor who is the subject of the series, apparently brings the kid around to becoming a sweet boy by the end of the programme. I'm looking forward to seeing it (in a friend's house). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST,noddy Date: 03 May 05 - 05:38 AM bring back capital punishment in schools. that should sort it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 May 05 - 06:24 AM Just read through this thread. I am afraid the problems raised are not simple. I have a great respect for you as a performer Strolling Johnny, but I can tell you (as an ex teacher myself and as someone who keeps in contact with former friends in the profession) that you are mistaken if you think there is a single reason for the problems in some of our schools, or a simple solution. I can tell you, when I started work as a teacher in '71 - corporal punishment was already a busted flush in the really tough schools. It wasn't the teachers or airy fairy educationists who decided against it. It was the parents, they taught their kids gurerilla warfare! I can remember one kid telling me, my Dad says if the teacher comes near you, you pick up a chair or a desk and throw it, then see what happens...... I tend to think in the kind of places Stephen Fry attended, they never really needed it anyway. The problems will be solved by the professional skills of teachers, and by ourselves when we start taking seriously what we want our schools to accomplish, and how we want our children raised. The recent Jamie Oliver series of programmes about school meals was very interesting. An Infant School noted that the behaviour of small children improved the moment we stopped feeding them poisoned shit. I can remember in the 70's when A.E. Tansley the Inspector of Remedial Education in Birmingham opined than more than 70% of children in the city were having their bodies and brains damaged by environmental factors. Many of those who heard his conclusions ridiculed him. I suppose we all thought about Spaghetti junction and the lead emissions from cars, we never thought about the crap we were stuffing into kids mouths. Children are so tiny and vulnerable when they are young, and once they have learned bad behaviour is the norm...... There a million other factors, but we have to work them out. We have first of all to believe they are important. all the best big al whittle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: ejsant Date: 03 May 05 - 09:37 AM Greetings All, There is not doubt that a multitude of social policy evolutions have contributed to the lack of respect that permeates our society, at least here on this side of the pond, these days. That said, the lack of consistent and swiftly administered consequences for abhorrent behavior, both in the home and school, will perpetuate the current scenario. I see it every day where I live. The secondary school is a block down the street. Every day I watch youngsters toss their trash on the walkway around my home. When I ask them to use the bin, as this is where I live, they laugh and walk away. I was once able to gain the compliance of one youngster when I picked up the trash he tossed and followed him. When he enquired as to why I was following him, as he promptly threatened to call the police, I told him I was following him home so that I may toss his trash in his yard. He immediately told me that if I did this his father would beat the P**S out of him so he grabbed the trash from my hand and tossed it in the nearest bin. When my parents found out that I stepped out of line as a youngster and was paddled by a teacher or one of my mates folks I was then paddled at home. I have not been scarred for life by these disciplinary techniques, as a matter of fact I believe I am a more tolerant and respectful person because of them. I have four children and I can count on one hand the amount of times I have used any means of physical behavioral correction on them collectively. So I am also of the mind that I was not coerced into being a physically violent person as a result of the paddling that I received as a youngster. My folks are both still alive, thankfully and we share a wonderful relationship. Peace, Ed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Liz the Squeak Date: 03 May 05 - 11:58 AM From a parent to a teacher friend who complained that one of her Reception class (3-4 yrs old) was still in nappies and couldn't pull up his trousers: "You're the teacher, you teach him to do it, I don't have time." For a lot of parents, they get to spend very little time at home after the birth of a baby. Most working women who get pregnant, go back to work afterwards - in many cases they have to, because they are the sole or greater wage earner. Children are left in the hands of childminders and nurseries whose priorities are not always the single child. It's only in the last 40-50 years that we've had working mothers as a majority. My mother didn't work until I was 4 and then no more than 6 hours a week until I started school at 5. These days, some employers want mothers back 3 months after giving birth. I feel very strongly that it is the responsibility of the parents to teach their children that violent behaviour is not the answer, that good deeds should be done for themselves, not in the hope of rewards and that there are certain things that we just do not do ever... anyone of us, regardless of provocation or peer pressure. Of course, anyone who knows me, knows that I'm a terrible parent and Limpit will grow up to be a mad axe murderer. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 03 May 05 - 01:32 PM I'm with M. Ted. There's something odd about the original post. And for all you corporal punishment freaks, I believe that the certainty of punishment is more important than the severity. The death penalty isn't a deterrent if you think you won't get caught. clint |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST Date: 03 May 05 - 02:19 PM As one who has been a teacher for many years I take my hat off to guest JTT and the comments about self respect..you are bang on. I hope we do get it back. I also think that many modern parents have a great deal to answer for. Stop running interference for your children, allow them to accept responsibility for actions. Do not support them out of guilt..if you are not being a full time parent..don't decide to be a parent only when there is a crisis. Stop insisting that schools and society do your job for you. Schools need to be able to educate children, those who oppose, interfere or diminish that should not be allowed to attend. Schools need to lower tolerance for bad behaviour and they need to give teachers the proper support that allows them to teach. Schools are not substitute parents...let's get a grip. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Peace Date: 03 May 05 - 02:46 PM I agree that tolerance is paramount--that and understanding. However, to quote B Coloroso, "Zero Tolerance = Zero Thinking!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: M.Ted Date: 03 May 05 - 03:10 PM >Schools need to be able to educate children, those who oppose, interfere or diminish that should not >be allowed to attend Only thing, GUEST, if we held to your rule, you would shut out about half the teachers and all the administrators-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: dianavan Date: 03 May 05 - 09:37 PM We have taught social responsibility, anti-bullying, effective problem-solving and anger management. Coloroso has even given a workshop to our parents. I muct say that the students in our school are very well behaved but it is always a problem dealing with those few students whose parents just don't get it! I called home and asked dad to bring another t-shirt for his son because the one he was wearing was totally inappropriate for the classroom. It said something like the best way to deal with a bully was kick him and run! This was on a seven year old boy who was in danger of being bullied because he had 'big mouth'. Talk about setting up your kid! It was in direct opposition to what we were teaching. Believe me, this kid did not need that kind of attention! When dad arrived with the new t-shirt, he asked me when I was going to retire! As if this was going to solve the problem! Whatever... There have always been jerks and there will always be jerks. Its how we respond to them that matters. BTW - Dad sent me a nice little present and a card on my birthday a couple of days ago. I guess he had a change of heart. When a school is determined to be a safe school. It can be done but it takes commitment at all levels. It also takes a certain amount of risk taking on the part of teachers. We do have a socially responsible school and the kids are polite and accountable for their actions. I keep wondering if it will carry over to high school. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Liz the Squeak Date: 04 May 05 - 04:05 AM I'm a little worried that no-one has reassured me and said that I'm a good parent and Limpit a lovely child... you all know us too well! LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: George Papavgeris Date: 04 May 05 - 04:31 AM I was thinking about that LTS and I have to disagree with you. Mad axe murderer? Certainly not. Cold and calculating perhaps... :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST Date: 04 May 05 - 07:36 AM MTed; I think you exaggerate the number of teachers and administrators who are a problem..I would say, based on many years of observation that about ten percent would fall into the category of being part of the problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: M.Ted Date: 04 May 05 - 08:50 AM It was a joke, GUEST--Though I makes me remember a friend who was a teacher that had won many awards and was well known for her positive, "Can Do" attitude--when asked how she kept her positive attitude over so many years, she said, "I just never talk to the other teachers." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: robomatic Date: 04 May 05 - 09:02 AM In the words of Homer Simpson: "Looking after kids gives me a high only morphine can top - YA GOT ANY?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 May 05 - 07:09 PM It saddened me that his first consideration upon graduating was to join the Union and get legal protection. I can't agree with you there, El Greko. I think joining the appropriate Union should be one of the first things you do in any job, for all kinds of reasons. One of the most important being, as a way of defending your right to act ethically, and to protect you, if need be, against your employers - for example, the kind of thing Kaleea instanced, where the school was colluding in child abuse - "...we were not to report it or else we'd be fired. She said the school system didn't need any more lawsuits." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: LilyFestre Date: 11 May 05 - 07:42 PM I am a preservice teacher with years of social work employment under my belt. I spent ALL of my social work years with children who have excessive behaviour problems. I firmly believe that society will never see a permanent change in behaviour of children until the adults can learn to work together consistently...every single person has to be on the same page. As for the t-shirt incident, I can recall a student coming to school with a t-shirt that proclaimed in large, bold letters, FCK ME (on the front) and The only thing missing is U" (on the back). The parents were unavailable to bring a new shirt so we simply had the student wear the shirt inside out. Another shirt on a 9 year old...."I went to Hooters for the food." On the back, "Liar." Again, we had the student wear the tshirt inside out. Just a thought. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: *Laura* Date: 12 May 05 - 05:31 PM As a teenager - I think the problem is kids KNOW that the teachers aren't allowed to touch them - even in defence. There doesn't always have to be a reason - some kids are just arrogant cocky little fuckwits who think they're hard if they get shitty with their teachers. I think something should be done with that law - even if it's only put in a few loopholes so the kids aren't so sure that they can assult teachers and still be in the clear if the teacher touches them in defence. xLx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: GUEST Date: 13 May 05 - 05:18 AM A good hanging never done anyone any harm! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Assaults upon Teachers From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 May 05 - 05:50 AM Not sure about hanging. Electric cattle prod? NOW you're talking... :D |
