BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:22 PM

Kinda hard to argue with that, GUEST.

David, you said on a thread that you have a degree. At the time you mentioned that I was envious of that. Fact is, I also have a degree. Mine was 'with distinction'. FYI.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:16 PM

BNP leader held in race hate probe
By Gideon Long

LONDON (Reuters) - Police have arrested the leader of the far-right British National Party after he was secretly filmed calling Islam "a wicked, vicious faith".

The arrest of Nick Griffin, one-time host of French National Front leader Jean-Marie Le Pen, was warmly welcomed by Muslims, some of whom said the government should ban the BNP altogether.

Police arrested Griffin, 45, at his family farmhouse in Wales and took him to West Yorkshire, where officers are conducting a major probe into the activities of BNP members.

Griffin, later released on bail until next March, told reporters on Tuesday: "This is an electoral scam to get the Muslim block vote back for the Labour Party."

Prime Minister Tony Blair's popularity plunged and his trust ratings plummeted after he took the country to war in Iraq.

Griffin's arrest came two days after police detained the party's 70-year-old founding chairman John Tyndall.

They have now arrested 12 people on suspicion of incitement to commit racial hatred since the investigation began five months ago. None has been charged.

The police probe was triggered by a BBC documentary, broadcast in July, which included footage of Griffin giving a speech in the northern town of Keighley in which he railed against Islam and its holy book, the Koran.

"This wicked, vicious faith has expanded through a handful of cranky lunatics about 1,300 years ago until it's now sweeping country after country," he said.

"BLOW UP MOSQUES"

Other footage in "The Secret Agent" documentary -- watched by some 4 million viewers -- shows another BNP member expressing a wish to blow up mosques with a rocket launcher and machine-gun worshippers with "about a million bullets."

Another member told how he put dog faeces through an Asian shop's letterbox, while a third described how he beat up a Muslim man. "I'm kicking away...it was fantastic," he said.

Muslims were jubilant at news of Griffin's arrest.

"At last!" said Massoud Shadjareh, chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission, which has long urged the government to outlaw the BNP. "This is extremely important."

"It should have been done long ago. There is no place in British society for the bigots of the BNP," he told Reuters.

The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), the biggest lobby group for the country's 1.8 million Muslims, also welcomed the arrests, saying it hoped police would now press charges.

"The BNP has been trying to develop a more polished image and a more sophisticated discourse but the BBC documentary showed that behind that facade, the ugly reality is still the same," said MCB spokesman Inayat Bunglawala.

The party's anti-immigration stance has won it a handful of local council seats, mainly in poorer areas with large ethnic populations, but it remains on the fringe of politics.

It has nothing like the clout, for example, of the French far-right of Le Pen, who accepted an invite from Griffin to attend a BNP fund-raising dinner in northern England in April.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:15 PM

"he was in the pay of searchlight you idiot"

And you are in the pay of who, you dickhead?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:14 PM

Idiot!... That's pricelss. Talk about one finger pointing at someone and three finger pointing back at yourself vote bnp...lollololol
Don't bother posting anymore 'vote bnp'..it's just to funny whenever you do and takes away attention from the serious subjects under discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:11 PM

Brucie, there is a world of difference between the authorities knowing about something and actually ACTING upon it.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:10 PM

We have had this argument in Australia. I work in an area that monitors these things. We have a very multicultural society here. There is no evidence here that men of any ethnic background rape women at a higher rate than any other.

now i'm going back to sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,VOTE BNP
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:08 PM

Oh yes, Bennett he who was revealed by his NI contributions as working for searchlight an anti bnp organisation. he was in the pay of searchlight you idiot

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:07 PM

"Look, the authorities accept asian grooming of white girls is happening, its local MP accepts it is happening, the MEDIA accepts it is happening . . .".


"No Brucie, you are wrong, wrong and wrong. It is not about using this is a platform for hating, it is trying to get the message across to those in power who will not accept that this grooming is happening to act upon it."

David: Which is it?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,Fight Rascism
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:07 PM

Ah Nick Griffin, he is currently serving 7 years at one of HM Prisons for spreading Rascial hate.
Let's look at Mr. Griffin then as he has brought up by DH in this Thread :




The British National Party leader, Nick Griffin, is a hardline fascist. Convicted for inciting race hate, he denies that the Holocaust ever took place and believes that Jews are conspiring against white British people.

Griffin is from a wealthy family with a history of far right involvement. His father, Edwin, took him to his first NF meeting when he was just 15. Griffin's mother is the administration secretary of the party and stood in the 2001 general election.

When Nick Griffin attended Cambridge University to study law his involvement in extremist politics grew. By 1978, he was the national organiser of the NF.

In 1980, Griffin launched Nationalism Today with the help of Joe Pearce, a convicted racist and editor of Bulldog. Nationalism Today became the springboard for the Third Positionist ideas that the NF later adopted. Through Nationalism Today Griffin and Pearce developed their idea that a "third way" was needed to replace the evils of both capitalism and communism. They felt both were Zionist controlled.

The Third Positionist wing of the NF saw the traditional style of fascist organising as pro-capitalist. Griffin wanted to create a political elite. Based on the blood and soil philosophy of Julius Evola, an Italian National Socialist, Griffin and the NF began to develop their Third Positionist ideas.

But it was also terrorists who were to prove a strong influence on Griffin's politics. Italian fascist, Roberto Fiore, had arrived in Britain with several others including people implicated in the bombing at Bologna railway station in 1980 in which 85 people.

Griffin and Fiore became close, with the Italian working for Griffin's tour company, Heritage Tours. Griffin's father remains Fiore's personal and business accountant.

Griffin's BNP may hate Islamic fundamentalists now. But this has not always been the case. After his faction took control of the NF, they began to make some strange alliances. They met with representatives of Colonel Gaddafi's regime through the Libyan People's Bureau in London, and expressed support for Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini.

Rank and File members of the NF were not too pleased when Griffin, in 1985, praised the black separatist Louis Farrakhan: "White nationalists everywhere wish (Farrakhan) well, for we share a common struggle for the same ends: Racial Separation and Racial Freedom".


Nick Griffin (left) in Libya

During this period, Griffin and other NF leaders took an all-expenses paid trip to Libya, as guests of the Gaddafi regime to obtain funding.

National Front News wrote at the time: "Common interest must be turned into practical cooperation. Those involved must work to nail the media lies which are used by our enemies to try and divide us and make us afraid to be seen standing side by side with Third Way nations such as Libya and Iran". Ironic that Griffin once allied himself so closely with Muslim countries that he now condemns as terrorist states. But political gymnastics have been constant throughout Griffin's life. His bizarre ideologies have changed like the wind.

In 1989, he left the NF and formed the International Third Position, a fanatically Catholic fascist group. The ITP campaigned against Coca Cola, McDonalds, urbanisation and "Zionism" His involvement did not last beyond a few years. In 1991, after a failed business venture, Griffin went his own way.

In 1995, Griffin joined the BNP. He began to edit The Rune, an anti-Semitic quarterly. He also announced that the BNP should prioritise denying the Holocaust to schoolchildren.

He earned a two-year suspended prison sentence for his sick views on the Holocaust. In 1998 he was found guilty of inciting race hatred at Harrow Crown Court for denying that the Holocaust ever took place.

But now Griffin tries to pretend the BNP is respectable. The ITP have also been baffled by Griffin's incoherence. It recently declared: "He has been a conservative, a revolutionary nationalist, a radical National Socialist, a Third Positionist, a friend of the 'boot boys' and the skinhead scene, a man committed to respectable politics and electioneering, a 'moderniser'. Which is he in reality? Perhaps he has been all these quite sincerely – in which case his judgement is abysmal; or perhaps he has been none of them sincerely – which speaks for itself!"

Griffin immediately had his sights upon leading the BNP. He became editor of Spearhead, the then BNP magazine, from 1996 until his split from former leader John Tyndall in 1999.

He yearned for a BNP that was reputable and modern. The label of Nazism tarnished the group's image, and Griffin wanted to copy the more intellectual far right parties on the continent. But though he spoke of the need for a community-based politics, his words in The Rune showed his real colours. "The electors of Millwall did not back a post-modernist Rightist Party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan "Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate".


Excellent choice of character, Nick Griffin!! He would of course be able speak out unbiasedly with regards to any supposed Race related Crimes?
Nick Griffin,strange choice, not one I would have used myself to illustrate the topic and gain the BNP support but then there does not seem to be any point to DH's posts other than People being able to read inaccurate ramblings of a Rascist first hand.
Maybe DH's contributions are serving a much better purpose here in exposing the BNP for what it really is.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:04 PM

Last week the Sunday Mirror revealed that Robert Bennett, who is in charge of distributing BNP leaflets in the town, served five years for his part in the gang rape of two 17-year-olds. Fliers in Oldham are now throwing neo-Nazi language back at the BNP. Bennett was a 'sick' and 'evil' rapist of 'two young white women', one reads. 'The next time the BNP come knocking at your door just remember you might be staring into the eyes of brutal rapist Robert Bennett.'

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:03 PM

No Brucie, you are wrong, wrong and wrong. It is not about using this is a platform for hating, it is trying to get the message across to those in power who will not accept that this grooming is happening to act upon it.

Of course you can't hate an entire people on the basis of what a minority of that race is determined to do, but you can alert people to the danger facing them from that minority.

1947, i did not make this a racial issue, the asians did, hence the fact that all the authorities in Keighley, media, police and MP's ALL accept that it is ASIANS grooming WHITE girls. Or do you not call asians specifically targeting white girls for grooming racist?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:02 PM

"There's Oldham BNP's one-time leafleting organiser Robert Bennett. Convicted gang rapist and armed robber. In total he has 37 convictions."

From this site.

Thanks for the heads-up, GUEST.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,1947
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:59 PM

From brucies link: "The most common rapists are current and ex-husbands or partners."

David, why don't you target current and ex-husbands or partners" instead of trying to make this a racial issue?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:56 PM

No, David, I am not saying the 'grooming' is not happening. I AM saying that using that as a basis for hating all Asisns is infantile.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:55 PM

The BNP used a convicted rapist to canvass door to door for votes. Convicted of his part in two gang rapes. He was white. David knows this.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:55 PM

"This government is anti-white in nature, and would never in a million years portray the truth that white people could be the victim of racist attacks?"

I am sure that White people ARE sometimes the victims of racist attacks. As I have pointed out to you on occasion, racism is not a one-way street. There is nothing especially sacrosanct about being White. Stupidity is not the prerogative of any 'race' in particular. Never has been; never will be.

What you have done is generalize from one story, one investigation. Using your logic, I could extrapolate that 6 out of 10 husbands commit rape. You just ain't makin' too much sense to me. Also, I don't deem Nick Grifin to be an authority on much of anything.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:54 PM

Bruce, are you saying you don't believe asian grooming of white girls is occuring in Keighley? Even when the police, media, its local MP all say it is?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:46 PM

Uh, David, that particular stat came from

Hull Rape Crisis
PO Box 40, Hull HU1 3BJ
Helpline: 01482 39990
Mondays: 10.30am - 12.30pm
Thursdays: 5.30pm - 7.30pm
24 hours answer machine at all other times

They are a member organization of the Rape Crisis Federation, England and Wales.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:40 PM

Look, the authorities accept asian grooming of white girls is happening, its local MP accepts it is happening, the MEDIA accepts it is happening, and of course Nick Grifin has highlighted it is happening!!

You want stats? Brucie, do you really rely on government home office stats for a reliable source of data? This government is anti-white in nature, and would never in a million years portray the truth that white people could be the victim of racist attacks?

Of course racism cuts both ways, as i'm sure you agree? But to believe that what we are seeing in places like Keighley and elswhere is not racist grooming is nonsensical. Another recount below from Bradford newspaper. There are more, a lot more...if you need them...?

http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/bradford__district/archive/2003/11/14/keig_news01.int.html

Sex predator jailed

by David Knights

A 24-year-old man who "groomed" a 13-year-old girl before having sex has been jailed for 15 months.

Delwar Hussain, of Lawkholme Lane, Keighley, will have to register as a sex offender with the police for the next ten years.

He was convicted by a jury last month of two offences of indecent assault after he had sex with the youngster on two occasions and was sentenced earlier this week.

The youth worker was described by a judge as a "predator" who targeted a girl knowing she was young.

Hussain was the first man to be prosecuted following police investigations into an alleged ring of Asian men "grooming" under-age white girls.

Keighley MP Ann Cryer has claimed that 60 local men have been luring girls, some as young as 11, to have sex with them. Police this week revealed they are preparing two more prosecutions and continuing investigations in several other cases.

Det Insp Trevor Gasson, told the Keighley News that Hussain's prison sentence showed the courts took a serious view of such a crime.

But he stressed the need for more young victims to give evidence and other people to pass on any information they knew.

Det Insp Gasson said: "There is still a reluctance for victims to come forward and stand up against their tormentors."

Mrs Cryer said she hoped more victims would see the importance of reporting their ordeals to police. She believed many crimes went unreported because the young girls saw the men as their boyfriends, or through fear of reprisals.

Mrs Cryer added: "I hope the message will get through to the perpetrators of the error of their ways and they will stop.

"If one man has already been successfully prosecuted, it might bring an end to this terrible business."

Judge Roger Scott described Hussain's victim, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, as an extremely good witness, but said Hussain had made a very bad impression when he gave his evidence.

"Your demeanour was devious,'' said Judge Scott.

"I take the view that the offences you were convicted of were planned offences. That you had targeted a young child, very well knowing the child was young.''

He said he was prepared to accept that the victim was 13 at the time, but he stressed that Hussain had "groomed" her before having sex.

Prior to Hussain's trial a Keighley News report about so-called "cruising" by young men in the Keighley area was shown to Judge Scott.

He this week told Hussain: "I don't know what's been going on in Keighley with young girls and what the newspaper report had to say.

"Fortunately, for you I'm not sentencing you on the basis of that newspaper report ... but I have to try to protect young children of 13 from themselves and from predators such as you.''

Hussain's barrister, Sarah Barlow, argued that there was another side to her client and she handed in a reference relating to his positive involvement in youth work.

"That assists in showing there is a very different side to this young man and this really is a one-off offence,'' she suggested.

She also pointed out that other aspects of the case, including a diary and text messages, indicated that there was an on-going relationship between Hussain and the girl.

Judge Scott, sitting at Bradford Crown Court, noted that Hussain had no previous convictions and that from everything written about him he appeared to be a perfectly, decent young man, who was buying his own home.

"Ranged at the side of me are your family. Your mother and other members of your family.

"That is not something they ever anticipated in your life, having to come to court to support you,'' said Judge Scott.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:33 PM

Myth: It is strangers in dark alleys who rape.
Fact: Surveys indicate that about 60% of men who rape know the woman they are raping, as in acquaintance and date rape.

Kinda shoots your argument in the foot, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:27 PM

I am not suggesting that rape is not a serious offense. It is. However, your assertion that rape is committed by people of certain ethnicities is bunk. It is committed by men. You find stats that break rapes into crimes committed by only men of certain ethnicities and I will give it a read. But until then you are not making a helluva lotta sense to me.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:24 PM

Sure Bruce, tell that to the young girls of Keighley who have had their lives ruined.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:18 PM

One robin doth not a spring make. An old Yiddish expression for you: "For instance is not proof."

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:12 PM

Perhaps you are missing the point.

When a woman in Hull is attacked by Asylum Seekers, the police and media describe that person as Eastern European, (in other words asylum seekers).

When a black woman is attacked, it is a race-hate crime.

But look at Keighley, MP Ann Cryer, pushed by Nick Griffin even admitted that white girls in Keighley were being groomed.

http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/bradford__district/archive/2004/12/03/keig_news04.int.html

http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/bradford__district/archive/2005/02/26/brad_news01.int.html

http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/08/week_4/22_keigh.html

The case above, this actually has Channel 4 ADMITTING THAT ALL THE VICTIMS ARE WHITE AND ALL THE GUILTY ARE ASIAN!

There are hundreds more cases in keighley alone.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:01 PM

"Dianavan. I am reffering to young males of Eastern European origin who have terrorised young women in Hull. Do you have any idea how many Hull women have been raped by these 'people'?"

GUEST, David--a more cogent question is this: "Do YOU have any idea?"

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 01:23 PM

Scroll down a bit. Stats for 2001 England and Wales.

David, no offense, but I am more inclined to listen to a rape-crisis counsellor than a politician concerning rape.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 01:20 PM

Some stats here.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 12:26 PM

Saying you know a discrete case of such and such proves nothing. What you know is not the topic, and is not likely to advance your point.

If you are going to make a cultural or racial accusation such as the one s above it should be done with actual figures and statistics that can be independently obtained by those on this thread who care. Implying that one group is worse than others is such a well known and overused racist tactic that it pretty much invalidates the thread. Most recently look at the readiness to assume that black security personnel were behind the disappearance of a white American girl in Aruba.

If you're going to play the 'they are a danger in this area' card don't come on the scene unless you are brining facts, and if the facts ain't there, you should re-think your assumptions. Otherwise you are actually showing anti-Muslim Intolerance, which also exists but is not supposed to be the subject of this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 11:54 AM

Name withheld. lololololol.

Actually on a serious note, if you really work for Rape Crisis, you will know first hand the brutal treatment of muslim women by their husbands! Surely you share this disgust?

And really...i would like to know where you come from, you say you have NEVER come across a case of a British White woman attacked by an asylum seeker? You must live in a very cosy area of Britain, shame, because the rest of us have to live in the ghetto's where these things are a DAILY occurance.

If spreading the truth is spreading hate, how will the truth ever survive? Don't take my word for it, research, look how many women are mistreated and raped in EVERY town asylum seekers have been dispersed to. To say these women are what? Liars? Is seriously offending the victims.

Cmon, we have all read in the Hull Daily Mail the following line..."Police are looking for a man of Eastern European Appearance..." It is a disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,Name withheld. A Female Member.
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 10:59 AM

Dianavan you bring up some very good points.


The reply you recieved however is par course. Fear inducing...Raping Women...it is an insult to the people on this forum's intelligence by posting reponses such as this one to your question.

Hate crimes are on the rise and as a 25 year experienced Rape Crisis Worker myself (that is my reason for posting Anon) I cannot find any support for the ludicrous suggestions made by the BNP organiser from Hull.

In the 30+ years that I have pro actively fought against Rascism it was with some surprise that I discovered posts from this Party on the Mudcat a while back.

I had however been informed that this was indeed going to be the new approach, the new strategy of White Supremist/Hate Groups worldwide.

The B** and others have no funds to get their message out there so they will now be using the internet, coming into forums and provoking discussion and perhaps that way they 'may' collect a few 'converts' along the way.

I will say this. Many People from all Racial backgrounds have been beaten and Hospitialized by persons associated with this Party (some, and only some of those associates are the NF, C18 and certain Members of the BNP themselves) That is a FACT that I can verify. I myself still have my Police reports and Hosptial records that will support this as do MANY other Victims that I know well.

One has to be particular careful as sometimes the argument or debate fuels the Rascism itself if the points are not made effectively. The BNP Organiser for Hull's answer to Dianavan's question to "specify" is a perfect example of these tactics.

A open Forum on the Internet is perhaps the worst place to even tackle these kind of issues and rascist slurs. The posts then become available to many people, who may be unbalanced enough to believe the BNP's kind of propaganda.

From the comfort of being anonymous and in one's Home, perhaps very far away from where a particluar Hate group operates, I myself try to remember that the anger that can be generated during debate here can then be taken out of the Internet and inflicted on a Victim in the real world.


I am disappointed that the B** was allowed a platform to air their distortions on the Mudcat. If ever there was a case in point of 'Do not respond" that was it but...it would seem that is a redundant term on the Mudcat now and has been for sometime unfortunately.

So I feel that by attempting discussion on these issues with the BNP Organiser for Hull I am encouraging and by encouraging...I could unknowningly contribute to the problem.   Therefore I will not attempt to engage in any exchange with The BNP Organiser for Hull (or any other Rascist that posts here for that matter) again. The risks are not worth the effort in my opinion.

I will not be back on this Thread.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 09:03 AM

Dianavan. I am reffering to young males of Eastern European origin who have terrorised young women in Hull. Do you have any idea how many Hull women have been raped by these 'people'?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 07:18 PM

Freda - You're absolutely right.

When the Chinese came to N. America, they came without their families.

Iranian boys become soldiers at fourteen. Thats a pretty good reason for sending them elsewhere.

During the dust bowl, my grandfather farmed out his brood to relatives and headed to the west coast looking for work.

When men are separated from their families and seek work elsewhere, the money they earn is often sent back home to feed the women and children.

So David, exactly who are you referring to? Please be specific.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 06:22 PM

i just like to spend more time looking to the bright side than the dark side,thats all

That's good to know, jpk. Perhaps you could apply some of that philosophy to those of your fellow humans who are Muslims, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: jpk
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:55 PM

got to run for now carol, but i just like to spend more time looking to the bright side than the dark side,thats all[opps some star wars snuked in thar.bye now ya'll

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:52 PM

We can't change what's wrong unless we focus on it first, jpk. Have a good day, yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:51 PM

often its the sons who are at risk, for example in Afghanistan, the young Hazara men were particularly targeted by the Taliban - they were murdered, or kidnapped and sent to the front line to fight for the taliban, against their own side. If they refused to do so they were shot.

Families put all their money together to send the oldest son - then, once the son has reached safety, it is their duty to try and earn enough so that more members of the family can be brought out. Those with the resources come as a family, but most people can't do that.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: jpk
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:49 PM

ps i do agree that we all have the right to agree to disagree,to that i do agree,am i asleep or did i spell that wrong,agree don't look right,wake me up please

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: jpk
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:43 PM

by all means carol,try to change what you wish.i may or may not care for your ideas,but i support your right to try for chg,ithink isaid the same in my last post[in a gen way;to you mr.hannam,thank your g.f. for me as well please.as for the men,the ones that run to excape so as to return fighting,i understand,the ones that run too not return,i do dispise;for myself i thank god for my father and those who seved with him[took german in jr.high,didn't like it,strange i did like rusky and i am part german not rusky]so i am glad we arn't speeking it.for the most part i belive we gen agree.also carol try to maybe focus a little on whats right and not always on what maybe wrong;have a good day and god bless.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:40 PM

They smuggle themselves there for the same reason the Gurkha people of Nepal made their services available to the British military: to send money to their loved ones in Nepal. They endured long periods of separation from children and wives, and thus were able to provide the necessities for their families. Spomething similar happens when Mexican people jump the border and enter the US. They are going where the money is so that their families can survive.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:58 AM

JPK, all i know is that my Grandfather didn't flee to a 'safe' country when this Country was under attack by Nazi Hordes, and it's to people like him that i am thankful.

In Hull, the majority of Asylum Seekers are 18-30 year old men. I have never seen rarely any children or women? Why? These people cross upto a dozen countries sometimes to reach here, why? If i had been under the threat of persecution and feared for my, and my family's life, i would have thanked god merely to get into the next safe country, or, if i were wanting to smuggle people into vans to cross Europe, then it would have been my family, women and children first.

No, what happens is young men smuggle themselves here and the women and children are left back home to face the brunt of social discord.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 06:45 PM

"From: GUEST,brucie - PM
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:44 AM"

JOE AND THE CLONES

Would you please tell me the address I posted that from? I don't recall doing that post, and I would like to know where I have been today. I realize it's an inconvenience, but since it has my Mudcat name on it, I think I have a right to know where it originated.

At your earliest convenience. By message would be fine with me. Thank you,

Bruce Murdoch (AKA brucie)

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 06:42 PM

"From: GUEST,brucie - PM
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:44 AM"

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 05:49 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,brucie - PM
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:44 AM

Hang on. I sound like a ridiculous shrieking girl when I read these posts back to myself."

DEAR JOE AND THE CLONES.

I seem to be having a memory lapse. Would you be kind enough to tell me the internet address I posted the above message from? If you don't want to post it on the thread then just message me with it, OK? I have posted some strange stuff, and maybe I did post that. Tell me the i'net address and I'll check out where I have been today. Must be an example of multiple personality disorder. Just want to check up on myself.

Thank you.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 05:26 PM

Yes, bleachers, I was stating some of the problems that need to be fixed. In what way is that inconsistant with my saying it would be cowardly for me to run away to another country instead of staying here and helping to fix the problems?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,From the bleachers
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 05:24 PM

Carol you were running your country down a couple of threads ago regarding their support of Saudi Arabia, not very consistent, but then obsessives are rarely consistent.
FTB

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 05:06 PM

jpk, this is what it means to be a patriot...

My country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.

It would be cowardly for me to run away to another country instead of staying right here and trying to help fix what's broken. A true patriot would know this.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: jpk
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:42 PM

simple solution;for the countries that you wish to cry about,and how bad they are being used by the one you live in.well immigrate to one of them[if they will let you most won't,but we will let them do so'immigrate to ours']and try to help them stop the exploytation of there countries[bet there leaders will stop you from doing so].i hope you make thru the trial for treason, if they let you have one that is.face the facts,our countries and there leaders may not be saints[the us,gb,germ,fr,etc],but they are far better than almost any of the other choices,thats why we still live here,we can still try to change the things we don't like,with out being locked up or beheaded[for the most part anyway,if not carefull they will take that from us to if we let them'and damn it we are letting them'things like the pat. act. and the tsb are just the foot/feet in the door].we have it good compared to most.they could too if they would fight for it,and knew the truth about who to fight,and that who is not us but there own leadership.same as we have done in the past,distant and not so distant past.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:38 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,brucie - PM
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:44 AM

Hang on. I sound like a ridiculous shrieking girl when I read these posts back to myself."

NOT MY POST

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: DavidHannam
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:25 PM

Mrs Hannam. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

That was honestly very funny!!!!!!!!

As for my posting, the last post anyone should be concerned about was this last one:

and returning to the subject, i actually spoke to a young muslim male today whilst canvassing.

He attends his mosque accordingly. I asked him if he ever encountered problems, and he spoke of young muslims around his area vandalising. I was suprised to hear that amongst his community there is a growing drugs problem too, he said his parents and others were upset about what was happening, and he mentioned his parents had divorced and his sister is on drugs. I really didn't expect to hear of muslim divorce.

To be fair, it shows that the problems society is encountering is not distinct to any one group or ethnicity in this country. We all share the same problems. It needs all to work together and to equally recognize our differences as something unique and not something wrong.

This same town last year had its application for a St Georges Day celebration refused by council!! This sort of folly by our councils merely causes people to harbour resentments. It is the councillors, leaders who need to be replaced with a fair state before we can achieve some sort of understanding between communities

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:11 PM

"Jeez, that post from you was the most dissapointing yet.

No, my girfriend doesn't know about my preoccupation with your lack of sexual abilties, or indeed as as you say, lack of! So brucie, are you EVER going to muster the brains to counter a single argument yet? I noticed you could not answer one of my questions i posted you? You are not thick as well as shit in bed are you?   Perhaps i should ask your wife, i mean she knows the latter maybe she knows the former?"

About three people messaged me saying that David would not have posted the stuff he did under the name GUEST, David Hannam.

Folks, you were wrong.

Bruce Murdoch