 sj |
||
|
||
Latin scholars needed...
|
|
|
Subject: Latin scholars needed... From: alanabit Date: 26 Jun 05 - 02:14 PM I need the assistance of an erudite, helpful, Latin scholar to give me a couple of lines of Latin for a song introduction on the new album. Where better to ask than on Mudcat? I would like something along the lines of,"Let us give thanks and praise unto the Lord for Diedre's magnificent bottom." Don't ask me any questions and I won't tell you any fibs... If you don't think "magnificent bottom" sounds right, something along the lines of "wonderful body" or something like that would do just fine. I will happily despatch a copy of "Traveller's Tales" to the person who comes up with the most useful suggestion. |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Nigel Parsons Date: 26 Jun 05 - 02:42 PM The inter-tran site gives "Permissum nos gratulor quod laus unto Senior pro Diedre's splendidus solum" Although I think 'Fundament' might appear better than 'solum' Nigel |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: alanabit Date: 26 Jun 05 - 03:09 PM Well, there's a start. Thanks Nigel. |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Amos Date: 26 Jun 05 - 03:43 PM "Let us give praise" is translated as "Gaudeamus" in the old drinking song "Gaudeamus igitur"/ Probably closer to genuin Latin than the literal translation. If you PM Deda she can give you a knowledgeable translation. A |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: semi-submersible Date: 26 Jun 05 - 03:58 PM I'm no scholar, but I wouldn't use that mechanical translation. It looks as if it begins "Permit us..." so it misses the whole point. It also didn't translate "Diedre's" at all. The Vulgate (1 Chron. 29, 13) uses "Deus noster confitemur tibi et laudamus nomen tuum inclitum," which is translated "Our God we give thanks to thee, and we praise thy glorious name," so that gives you the first part. |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: alanabit Date: 26 Jun 05 - 04:25 PM Yes, I can imagine that just trying to use the words literally would not exactly get what I am after. I should think that "Diedre" would need modification into a genitive form, but I know no Latin at all. I would not even attempt to translate anything into German even - and I have been living here for over twenty years. I think what we need here is one of those educated folks - wot got learned proper at school... |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 26 Jun 05 - 07:34 PM Maybe Joe Offer will appear here soon - otherwise I´ll have to dredge up what little I remember... "Let us give thanks" and "praise unto the lord" should be each be easy - one word for the first, three at most for the second. I´ll have to think about Deirdre´s bottom - so to speak. Regards |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: GUEST,Inero Date: 26 Jun 05 - 08:58 PM You could always ask on the Latin list. URL: http://zbihniew.krasl.cz/news26/thread.php?group=alt.language.latin They are a friendly lot and always willing to tackle little projects like Alanabit's Vale! Michael |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 26 Jun 05 - 10:40 PM I would suggest using the easily recognized (by Latin first year students) opening (first line) chords/tune of:
|
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Jun 05 - 01:21 AM Well, "Let us give thanks and praise to the Lord" is:
Maybe "fundamentum" would mean closer to "foundation garments." -Joe Offer- Oh, and "gaudeamus" means "let us rejoice," as Gargoyle indicated. |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 27 Jun 05 - 04:03 AM Gratias dicamus Domino qui Diedram ornavit pulcherrimo corpore (Always presuming that the owner of this wonderful bottom is feminini generis, otherwise it should be Diedrum) = let us say thank to the Lord who ornated Diedre with a most beautiful body. If you insist on the bottom, scratch corpore, put anu (but that doesn't sound well). On second thought: ... ornavit pulcherrimis globulis = with most beautiful roundings. You may be assured that this sentence is the first grammatically correct contribution. |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Le Scaramouche Date: 27 Jun 05 - 04:07 AM Isn't gaudeamas the origin of the word joy? |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: freda underhill Date: 27 Jun 05 - 06:37 AM Obesa cantavit. .. The fat lady has sung. Amicule, deliciae, num is sum qui mentiar tibi? - Baby, sweetheart, would I lie to you? |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: alanabit Date: 27 Jun 05 - 07:18 AM Thanks very much everyone. I shall now be able to praise this (regrettably fictitious) bottom, with the decorum which it deserves. Diedre is, unfortunately, a fictitious character. I wish very much that I had encountered her at the time when I was a choirboy and entering adolescence! |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: mack/misophist Date: 27 Jun 05 - 09:50 AM If it is a 'magnificent bottom' you're praising, a reverent mention of Venus Callipygous might be in order. (She of the magnificent bottom) |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: GUEST Date: 27 Jun 05 - 01:32 PM Shrewd observation Le Scaramouche -
Random House Dictionary of the English Language
[ME joy(e) < OF jore, joye
Sincerely, |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Jun 05 - 03:34 AM My Latin is a bit rusty, but it might help to know that the classic Greek? statue of the "Venus with the glorius butt" is commonly called Venus Kalypigos, sometimes given the Latinized? name Venus Steatopygia. John |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Jun 05 - 04:06 AM Gee, and I though I knew obscure, useless stuff. Both John in Kansas and mack/misophist know about Venus Kalypigos, which must qualify as the most obscure piece of information posted at Mudcat in years. I am duly impressed - so, where did you guys get that information? That must have been some kinda impossible Google search to come up with something like THAT. -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: sian, west wales Date: 28 Jun 05 - 04:15 AM Definitely go for the 'globulis'. sian |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 28 Jun 05 - 07:24 AM Joe - doing years of Greek at school we not only learned about Glaukopis Athene (the owl eyed) and Hera Boopis (the cow eyed), but also about Aphrodite Kallipygos, albeit she is better known as Anadyomene (the foam born). That goddess with a real beautiful butt will never be forgotten by the impressible memory of the young soul is evident. Useless knowing? I never thought good poetry useless, and to understand it we had to learn a lot of typical adjectives (epitheta ornantia) to know of whom the poets spoke. |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 28 Jun 05 - 09:21 AM And Joe - not impossible to find something in Google: you have to insert the correct search word "Kallipygos". Of the about 760 hits some of the finest: here and here and here Why her temple was erected: The story behind (in German) and here a totally different "finebutt": afterlife of a classical expression |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:11 PM The man who taught me first-year Latin, taught me first-year Greek three years later. His name was Father Daniel York (formerly Jurkiewicz). I took six years of Latin, two years of Greek, and four years of German - but no language teacher taught me better than Fr. York. One of his best teaching tools was his colorful irreverence. When we were pious first-year seminarians, Fr. York forced us to shout out the Latin word "scit," which means "he knows." In the Italian pronunciation used by the Catholic Church, that's SHIT!!!! And he had us shout it over and over, so it could be heard in all the classrooms down the hall. He had us memorize all sorts of irreverent quotations in Latin and Greek, and generally kept us in stitches while he crammed more language into our heads in a year than a normal teacher could teach in three. But I have to say that today, I am disappointed in Fr. York, because he didn't teach us about Venus Kalypigos and Glaukopis Athene and Hera Boopis. Ah, the things I learn at Mudcat.... -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Jun 05 - 03:06 PM Joe - The good father probably omitted it because of the unsettled nature of academic thought on the matter. I have references using at least 6 different spellings of Kalipygos, Kallipygos, Kallipygnos, Kallypigos, Callipigos, and Callipygous, and I think there are others. The "K" spellings would be more likely the Greek, I would think; but in that case she should have been an Athena (or Athene)?. The actual statue, I believe, was originally thought to be Greek, but now is(?) usually listed as a Roman copy (from a Greek original?). The alternate Steatopygos or Steatopygios actually means(?) "fat butt," and I have seen it only a couple of times. My first sight of the statue, in fact, came from a 1930s era "Eugenics" book that a relative had hidden in the garage rafters. "Auntie" wouldn't let him keep it in the house because of the "dirty pictures," but the statue was used as an illustration for the "steatopygic" body type in the anatomy section. Very impressive to a 7 year old kid...60 years ago, but maybe not now. Even for the better known Venus de Milo the case is muddied. The Louvre displayed her as a "classic period" work for a long time, even though the base she was found on identified the sculptor as a saxophone player in a late period Roman rock band. (At least there's documentation that he won an instrumental music contest and wrote a few plays.) The Louvre conveniently "misplaced" the base, because they really wanted something from the classical period to compete with other museums. Any Google image search for "Venus" should turn up de Milo, Kallipygos, Esquilina, de Medici, and the "crouching Venus." They're all widely posted, but in fact may be a little difficult to document or to learn much about because of the frequency with which they appear on "know-nothing" sites. As with musicians, how well you're known depends largely on who your publicist is. John |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Jun 05 - 12:33 AM Ah, but John, there's only one Greek spelling of it, and this sort of thing was right up the Good Father's alley. He told us a story about a man who complained to his psychiatrist that he kept having dreams about having a golden screw in his navel. So, the psychiatrist told him to dream of a golden screwdriver, and unscrew the screw. The man did that, got up the next morning, and his rear end fell off. Now, that story would have been a great lead-in for teaching about Venus Kalipygos, and that would have broadened our Greek vocabulary... -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 29 Jun 05 - 01:59 AM Joe - curious wonder - why I enjoy YOU and fight with your clones.
No doubt, it is the shared Latin and German - combined a conservative Christian background. I am sorry I missed the Koinonia - however, with multiple translations, completed by scholars ... does a layman have a chance?
Sincerely,
Like a cursed verse GAUDEAMUS continues to cram the brain...haunting melody or weekly indoctrination (and why did Miss Ruff leave those other wonderful stanzas out?)
-Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: JohnInKansas Date: 29 Jun 05 - 02:11 AM Joe - Maybe from now on I'll just use the description from the site I linked: die Venus "mit dem schönen Hintern" John |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 29 Jun 05 - 08:44 PM good to know you're keeping a perspective Al..... |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: semi-submersible Date: 30 Jun 05 - 06:13 AM Could "cantamus" (we sing) properly replace "dicamus" (we speak)? |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 05 Jul 05 - 03:01 AM No, the subjunctive (let us sing) should be cantemus, as dicamus (let us say) is the subjunctive of dicimus (we say). |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: michaelr Date: 05 Jul 05 - 07:41 PM Alan -- if the lady is fictitious, you may, of course, spell her name as you see fit. However, the common spelling is Deirdre, not Diedre. Cheers, Michael (auch ein Fan von schoenen Hintern) |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 06 Jul 05 - 03:10 AM That's what I thought first, too. But a google search for Diedre brought about 93.200 hits. |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Peace Date: 06 Jul 05 - 03:41 AM Maybe something in Latin that goes, "Dear Lord, we thank you for what is before us and behind Deirdre."? |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: alanabit Date: 06 Jul 05 - 04:27 AM LOL! We have now settled on two lines of Latin. One from Wilfried Schaum and another sent to me very kindly by Deda. The track - about twenty seconds long - has been recorded and will precede a rather rude song about the choirboy's favourite (female) chorister. It is comforting to have the company of so many who appreciate both good scholarship and fine bottoms. I think I'll come here again! |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 06 Jul 05 - 08:20 AM alanabit - glad to have been of some assistance to you. Don't forget to tell us, when and where the song will be published. |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: alanabit Date: 06 Jul 05 - 04:30 PM Thanks for your help Wilfried. If you PM me your address, I will happily send you an album. I seem to recall vaguely that you live in Maarburg, so I might even venture to drive down when it is finished. You are not so far from Köln if I recall corectly. I have vague memories that you are a solicitor, so I guess that your Große Latinum was a compulsory part of your studies? We should have the album finished sometime between the end of the month and mid August. |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:53 AM alanabit - I'm not a solicitor, but a librarian for the Oriental Department at the University of Giessen (thirty odd clicks down from Marburg), but I'm living at Friedberg (thirty odd clicks down from Giessen). I'll PM you immediately. Sing and enjoy Wilfried |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Genie Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:47 PM A bit OT, but I thought the line in Gaudeamus Igitur was "... Juvenes nunc sumus... " ( ...Now [while] we are young... ) not "...Gaudeamus igitur Juvenes dum sumus ... ). Genie |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 09 Jul 05 - 07:31 AM Thought wrong. Nunc = now, dum = while |
|
Subject: RE: Latin scholars needed... From: Stephen R. Date: 10 Jul 05 - 01:11 AM Steatopygia (yes, it's Greek for "fat-arse") is an anatomical feature known to anthropologists. The San people of southern Africa, whose traditional diet was low-fat, are noted for it; women store fat in their butts. It's very practical if you are a hunter-gatherer (well, since it's characteristic of the women, maybe just a gatherer)in the Kalihari, but for those not used to it it is rather startling at first. These ladies are pretty slender otherwise. In modern America, there are a lot of fat-asses, male and female, because we eat junk food and watch TV; but the rest of them is usually pretty big too. I heard of one of them that she read that Cher had a tattoo on her rump and wanted one there too, but gave up on the idea when she couldn't find a muralist. Stephen |
| Share Thread: |