BS: On being mugged

Subject: BS: On being mugged
From: Pauline L
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 02:31 AM

I was mugged one night recently around 10:15 PM just outside of my home as I walked home from the bus stop. A man came up behind me quietly on a dark part of the path. He grabbed me from the rear and demanded my money. He pushed me around, moving me off the path towards a wooded area, and pawed me. At times he grabbed me around the neck or struck me on the back of my neck with a blunt object. I screamed for help a few times and tried jabbing him with my elbow, but he stayed behind me most of the time, so I couldn't poke him in the eye, throat, knee, or shin. I couldn't even get a good look at him. Every time I screamed, he threatened to kill me. I gave him all the money I had with me, but he didn't want my wallet or cards. It could have been a lot worse. I wasn't harmed physically and all I lost was about $35. Nevertheless, I was really shaken up. When I got into my home, I called the police. They were familiar with the situation. There have been several similar muggings in my neighborhood recently, presumably by the same guy. Several policemen came out in response to my call, including one with a K9 Corps dog, who sniffed around very impressively. The police also sent out a helicopter with a floodlight to search the woods near the place where I was attacked. The light was very, very bright. With a sense of irony, I thought, "Wow. I must be important." One of the policemen recommended that I stay in the well lit areas of the parking lot at night and that I get and carry pepper spray. They said that crooks like this are usually intimidated by such tactics.

So many women are affected by such crimes. We are affected even more by fear of crime. We don't go out at night, especially to places where we feel uncomfortable, because of the fear. Single women are especially vulnerable, and I resent that. I feel that I can't go places and do things that other women can because I don't have a man to watch over me. Damn!

One of my male friends told me that he, too, is concerned, not only about me, but also about himself. Men get mugged, too. I had forgotten about that. Now I remember something about a trainer I had in a gym about 10 years ago. He is African American, big, bulky, and in great shape. He lives in a middle class neighborhood. One night he was held up at gunpoint just outside his home. He told me that the gun was almost against his chest, and he was awfully close to being dead. He is very sensitive to the fears of women. He often crosses a street to avoid walking behind a woman, especially a white woman. A few white men have told me that they do the same thing.

Crime stalks everyone, men and women, black and white, at any time of day and in any neighborhood.

I'm surprised at how long it's taken for me to recover. A week after the mugging, my hands were still shaking. When I tried to talk about the mugging, my voice quavered and my throat felt like it was tightening (asthma, probably). My heart was racing. I couldn't concentrate. I kept forgetting things.

A few friends have been like light in the darkness. One of my neighbors told me to call him any time, up to 11 PM, when I'm at the entrance to my condo complex, and he'll come and pick me up. He even drove to the grocery store to bring me home. Another friend responded very well to my need for hugs. Still other friends have called or emailed me and said sympathetic, supportive things. It's good to know that there are people who care about me.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 02:35 AM

Get yourself into a -good- self defence class and take your STRENGHT back from this perp!

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 02:49 AM

i know how you feel and what youve been through Pauline. good luck with the recovery process - it will take a while but at some point hopefully things will feel normal again. I was robbed in my home once, ten years ago - by two teenagers - it took a long time to recover and for the house to feel like home again. but it does.

my thoughts & best wishes are with you!

freda

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 03:09 AM

Good and supportive friends can make all of the difference in recovery from something like this; I know from a rape experience long past.

I agree with Clinton; take a good self-defence class. The one my daughters and I went to taught us tactics for when someone grabs us from behind which may have helped in this kind of situtation. Mace, a small can of spray paint, anything like that can help, too. It's good that you used your voice to yell as much as possible. That was the first line of defence we learned in class; yell a deep, strong, loud "NO!!!" as soon as possible. They don't expect that.

If you find yourself shaking a lot, having trouble sleeping, etc. see if there is a counselling group or support group you might be able to attend a few times. You are not alone and others who've been there can help.

Take care of yourself and when you get to the point of being good and mad about it, punch the daylights out of a pillow or something...it helps, too.:-)

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 03:28 AM

Pauline L. - I am so sorry that you were victimized. You will have those physical sensations for awhile because you have been traumatized. If the shaking doesn't stop after a few days, you need to see a doctor. Its good to talk it out with a professional. The choking feeling, the anxiety, the racing heart, the lack of concentration are all natural reactions when you have been personally violated and scared out of your wits. With time it will subside.

Please don't hesitate to seek counselling. Sometimes its easier to talk to a stranger, someone who is trained to handle a range of emotions. Telephone counselling might be available to you. Its O.K. to talk about it. I'm glad you are sharing your thoughts here.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 04:07 AM

Malc Stent was telling me the other day how he was mugged in Solihull of all places.

Apprently one night after a gig, he was phoning from a phone box - to tell his wife he'd forgotten his house keys, and please let him in. This hoodie opened the phone box door and threatened him with something he thought was a mace can. Imagine his horror when he wrestled the guys hand up to see it was a big automatic pistol. Anyway while he was wrestling, the accomplice grabbed the car keys.

and that was it, they jumped in the car and that was the last he saw of his Martin 12 string and Bose PA.

being a victim of crime is horrible. my wife was upset for months after we were burgled and we weren't even in the same country when the burglar broke in.

I'm very sorry you've had this experience Pauline. I'm sure we'd all like to hold your hand and make you a cup of tea and say something comforting.

Did I already send you an album. If not send me a snail mail address and perhaps it will cheer you up

all the best

al

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 04:49 AM

Hi Pauline. Go to a self defence class, like Clinton suggests. Above all, it can get you over that feeling of being helpless. I am feeling the same anger at the perpetrator and sympathy for you, which everyone else here has expressed.
That was a good idea by WLD. If you think it might cheer you up, PM me with your address, and I shall have an excuse to send you off an album too.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: fat B****rd
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 05:06 AM

Hello, Pauline. I'm so sorry to hear of this.
My step-daughter works for Victim Support UK and was most helpful when my son was beaten up last year.
Don't let this "person" take away your dignity or enjoyment of life.
I must agree about self-defence classes.Apart from being an unfortunate necessity they can be good for you.
All The Best from Charlie fB

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Jeanie
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 05:11 AM

I am so sorry to hear this has happened.
Sending lots of good thoughts your way,
- jeanie x

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 05:17 AM

Forget you're a lady Pauline and keep saying to yourself "Fuck the bastard he's not going to beat ME" Then go to those self defence classes!
Chin up girl.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Alba
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 05:21 AM

Love and {{{Hugs}}}
I am sorry to hear this happened to you.
There are some very sound suggestions posted so far that may help you.
Holding you in my Thoughts
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: MBSLynne
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 05:39 AM

CH and Giok are right....don't let him beat you. Self-defence will restore your confidence and repair some of what this guy has stolen from you

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Hrothgar
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:08 AM

Cynical bastard time.

Don;t yell "HELP!"

Yell "FIRE!"

People won't come to help you, but they'll come to see a fire.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:12 AM

would that be Hrothgar the Viking - did the fire trick work in your experience of pillage, etc.....?

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:59 AM

I can imagine that you would be shaky...what a horrible thing to have happen. :( I am really glad that you didn't get shot or beaten or something even worse. It sounds like you have some really good friends...let them help you. I have more...but I'll PM you sometime soon. In the meantime, see if there are any kind of self defense classes in your area...that will make you physically stronger and give you some confidence which will ease the nerves.

Stay safe.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:07 PM

I attended the 'graduation' of a self defense class that a friend of mine was taking. I had a most unexpected reaction to the violence though. When it came her turn to take on the mugger and she went into attack mode, I burst into tears.

Pauline, my sympathies to you. I can imagine how shaky the ground has become. But do take a class- those women who took the class I mentioned above to this day feel stronger and more in control of their lives.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:13 PM

Self defense classes are always good, and MIGHT have helped in this case, but so many attacks involve guns - martial arts aren't much defense against that. I'm sorry, Pauline, that this happened.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Deckman
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:24 PM

Carry a weapon. Learn how to use it. I do. Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:35 PM

I agree with most of the above advice.

So sorry to hear this Pauline - I used to do Victim Support work and know how something like this can affect a person. Make use of all your friends to talk this out and take back control by taking the self defense class!

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:45 PM

Pauline, you may find some helpful resources at the National Victims' Assistance site.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 07:03 PM

Victim's Support will help you through the trauma and offer some counseling. Take it! It is important not to be alone as you get through the ordeal. Time and knowing how to help yourself in a similar situation will help the healing process.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 07:47 PM

"Carry a weapon. Learn how to use it. I do"

That's stupid... most studies show that the majority of weapons carried for 'self-defence' wind up being used against the person they were supposed to defend...

Take good self-defence classes and 'become' a weapon...   That way it can't be used against you

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Janie
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 08:18 PM

(((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))).

Keep talking to people about it--about your thoughts and feelings. Process the grief and anger and fear, out loud and in person with people who will listen and validate, and not try to fix it for you.

Another ((((((((((((((((((((((((HUG))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 08:37 PM

I wish there was a magic wand to remove all the evil from the world.

I'm sending you positive vibrations.

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 08:49 PM

One cannot have evil without good....

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 08:59 PM

Is the reverse true? One cannot have good without evil? It may be true but I've never understood either one.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 09:15 PM

Every coin has two sides... every good knife cuts both ways...

Yin... yang...

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 09:50 PM

I was attacked from the backside with no warning, two months ago, in a public setting at 9:15 a.m.

I was hit once, then powerfully hit a second time; I used self-defence after the second blow and was attacked a third time and then used a non-violent self defence.

The perpertrator was a 16yo male, footballer, with shaved head, creased white t-shirt, kahkis, and Nike shoes.

Because I am an adult 50+ yo and the assailant was a minor child I am being investigated by three different sets of authorities.

Three doctors, three lawyers later, yes counseling with other than friends and family might be a good idea.

Only in America would the victum become the suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 09:57 PM

BTW I wrestled for seven years, coached/officiatd the sport for seven more, and professionally taught self defense classes. The child sustained no injuries.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 10:01 PM

If I am attacked I will defend myself. If my wife is attacked and I am with her I will defend her -- after she has beaten the shit out of the attacker.

"It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." But you may have other opinions, and I respect those and will support whatever you decide to do.

But I don't think that letting the bad guys win is the answer.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 10:58 PM

Over the years I've been mugged several times; only one produced injuries. My best advice is fight if you can but yell your head off all the while.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 12:24 AM

Clinton is right when he says, "most studies show that the majority of weapons carried for 'self-defence' wind up being used against the person they were supposed to defend... "

That goes for any weapon, even bear spray.

Learn to walk with confidence. Always know who is behind you. Cross to the other side of the street if a stranger is appoaching and the streets are empty. Carry your keys in a fist with the jagged edge out. If attacked, scream and go for the eyes. When they put their hands up to protect their eyes, run. Keep screaming!

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Pauline L
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 12:34 AM

Thanks, everyone, for your support.

I must point out that muscles, weapons, and self defense training don't always work, as some of the people who have written on this thread know from personal experience. Being a victim was bad enough. Please don't imply that I should have known how to take care of myself. I have taken several self defense courses. That's why I screamed a lot. However, I was taught that people seldom get attacked from behind and I wasn't trained for it. I tried to counterattack by pushing my elbows behind me. Frankly, I believe that my saving grace was sheer luck.

The legacy of this event is living with fear. I spoke to a doctor about my experience but he wasn't particularly sympathetic or supportive. I'm glad I have friends on Mudcat and elsewhere who have been supportive. Thanks also for the suggestions on victims' support organizations. I'm sure the albums will help a lot, too.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 12:45 AM

I was assaulted many years ago in a park I was working in. I wasn't in uniform at the time, and I screamed my head off. There were some people nearby (beyond some bleachers) who decided it must be a joke. That was unhelpful and I was quite traumatized. When he was spotted a couple of times more in the park my boss took matters into his own hands, and the next time his presence was reported, he followed him, flagged down a cop, and the guy was arrested. He was 14-years-old. Buy the time he was arrested he had gone from simple assault (grabbing and struggling and verbally threatening a weapon but not showing it) to actually using a weapon and committing sexual assault.

It took a long time to get over it, and chances are he was not punished in any way that took him off of the streets or actually got him any help.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 01:08 AM

"Please don't imply that I should have known how to take care of myself"

No such implication was intended... I suggest self-defence classes now as a way to help you feel better about yourself now... and to help you get through that fear...

"I was taught that people seldom get attacked from behind"
Then you were taught poorly... A good teach would have told you that an attack can come from anywhere...

"my saving grace was sheer luck."
A good friend of mine says, "I'd rather be lucky than good", but another says, "I'd never trade skill for luck" heh

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:41 AM

I must admit that I was also surprised to read that you were taught that attacks rarely come from behind. That is nonsense. If I were foolhardy enough to assault any of the women,whom I have trained with, from behind, I would very quickly regret my mistake!

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 03:03 AM

Pauline,
    I know how you feel. In the last two years that Patricia and I lived in Chicago we had, between, been mugged six times. it's one of the reasons that we left. It will dominate your thoughts for a while, but don't let it dominate them for long. The best way to get past it is to not dwell on it.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 03:05 AM

There was another thread on this subject a while ago.... in the Headbutting thread. The good advice starts around about 14th May postings.

Keep talking about it. You are in shock and you need to deal with it or it will keep coming back to you when you really don't need it to.

That's one of the beauties of this place... you can always talk to us - it may take a while to answer though!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 04:47 PM

You should have been taught that an attack can come from any direction (even below, by having your ankles grabbed).

There are several things you can do if assaulted from behind, depending upon the circumstances.

For instance, if grabbed from behind (arms over your arms) you can thrust your buttocks back to gain some room while stomping -- HARD! -- on the instep. Then turn and assault the eyes by ramming the butt of your palm into the chin (HARD!) while clutching at the eyes (slide up the face to get under glasses).

If you are put into a choke hold, quickly turn your face right or left -- this will help stop your throat from being crushed or your air cut off. This for an "arm hold," not a hand choking and works from front or back. Turn into the crook of the assailant's elbow.

Never fight a knife, gun, broken bottle, etc. unless you are a) absolutely certain there is no other choice and that the chance of death or injury exceeds the certainty, and b) you are reasonably certain that you can hurt the assailant before the assailant hurts you -- and that the damage you do will be greater than whatever he can do and, c) you know what you're doing. Luck is fine, but it runs good AND bad.

You are a weapon. Use it when you have to.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:20 PM

I remember the instructor's admonition: If you have the guy writhing on the ground, don't stop to kick him in the head, as is one's natural inclination- JUST GET OUT OF THERE!

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:51 PM

" Never fight a knife, broken bottle,"

Ya want an example how much damage a hand weapon like that can do to ya? This can actually be kinda fun...

Find an 11 year old kid (Any adult can beat an 11 year old right? No matter WHAT weapon they have eh??? HA!) Put on some old clothes you don't care about any more and give the 11 year old a BIG magic marker with the cap off... Tell them to attack you with it until you can subdue them and get the marker away from them....

Then stand back and look at yourself in a mirror... everywhere there's a magic marker stain, assume a gash deep enough that you'd need stitches... Take note if any cross any major arteries... those tend to be KILL shots...

Now try it with a 15 year old... note how MESSED up you are when all's said and done...

Now if you feel real brave, try it with an adult...

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:59 PM

Pauline - I never meant to imply that you didn't know how to take of yourself. It seemed like a good opportunity to let people know what to do when if attacked. Rapaire gave some really good advice.

Anyhow, keep talking. Each day you will feel less fearful, especially if you do something pro-active.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 10:45 PM

Pauline:

Thanks for your willingness to come forward with this unhappy, outrageous event. It happens to a lot of folk, and it happens to big strong men, too.

Although it is not always possible, walking with or near other people is a form of defense as well.

In 1982 there was a broadcast, as a work of art, from the Edinboro Festival, of a solitary woman's impressions: "Steps behind me, steps getting closer...steps catching up, the WOMAN behind me - the relief ... steps behind me, steps getting close, the MAN behind me - the attack."
Made an impression on me.
For what it's worth, if I'm on the street in the evening and there is a single woman also on the street, I also try to either keep my distance, make non-stealthy type noise, or get quickly ahead of her if I can do that without being a source of alarm.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST,kat coming through the back door
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 09:43 AM

Pauline, as soon as I can get in through the front door, I will PM you. Just wanted to let you know.:-)

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Pauline L
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 03:05 PM

Thanks again to everyone for good advice and moral support. A special big thank you to Rapaire for your detailed instructions on how to fight in my situation.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 04:23 PM

Pauline, the key is knowing how AND, most importantly, DOING so. The will must be there, especially when you realize that these techniques can cripple (perhaps for life) or even kill someone.

But attackers don't care if they injure or kill you, and you can return the favor.

Also, try out the techniques with a friend (NOT at full power!) so that you know how they work.

Another thing is to rip your fingernails across the guy's forehead -- very rich in nonlethal blood vessels, which can do a nice job of blinding him with his own blood. You do need reasonably long fingernails for that, though.

There are other things that can be done as well -- like reaching back, grabbing a handful of hair, quickly bending at the waist and throwing the assailant over your head. But these take much practice and, hopefully, proper instruction.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 11:24 PM

Pauline--

A couple of suggestions

1)   Push HARD for good lighting along this trail. I'm sure you're not the first to have had a problem on it. Get a petition signed by as many women (and men) as you can find. If this trail is by some chance under the jurisdiction of the complex where you live, point out to them the possibility of legal exposure. If you have no luck, try contacting your county safety officers and if still no luck, try Congressmen, Senators. Go as high as as you have to. Be a squeaky wheel.

2) In the meantime, is there another route you can take?

3) If you feel anybody touch you on the trail when you weren't expecting it, run--towards a door or a light, yelling all the way.

4) If you still have to walk home from the bus stop after dark, see if you can arrange to have someone meet you at the bus stop so you can walk home together.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 11:26 PM

That was from me--have no idea how that cookie fell off.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 11:30 PM

A couple of more: if grabbed from behind, drop straight down as quickly as possible instead of struggling, they don't expect that.

If grabbed from in front with their hands on your shoulders, bend your arms at the elbows, reach back with your hands and grab their fingers; peel them up and off of you as much and as quickly as you can, then run, or, if you can't, stomp on their instep, knee them in the groin, whatever is available and always USE your voice as much and as loudly as possible.

Another wonderful thing which helped me to feel safe was a year long tai chi class. My daughter took it, too. She was only about 13 or so. The movements become so automatic. She didn't realise her own strength intil one day a boy in school ran by her locker and swatted her on the back. Without thought, she automatically pivotted in a tai chi manuevre with her arm a certain way which connected with him and sent him into the lockers across the hall. She felt a little badly, but it also felt good to know that she could take care of herself if need be. Our teacher was great in that he taught it more as a moving meditation than for self-defence, BUT he always let us now how it could also be used for the latter.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 12:14 AM

Something odd about the logic here.

Why is it I wouldn't be able to take a magic marker away from an 11-year old without getting seriously marked but a bad guy could take a weapon -- a stick, a knife -- away from *me* and use it on me without getting seriously hurt?

Look, a weapon is not a defense, but a weapon with the skill nd determination to use it is. And it's true no weapon or training will guarantee a victory, but they can improve your chances. That's why weapons are around.

clint