BS: On being mugged

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 12:32 AM

Clint - If you are a woman, the chance of being over-powered and having the weapon taken from you and used against you is much greater.

Kat - Kneeing them in the groin is not a great idea. Apparently it doesn't disable and only makes them madder.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:14 AM

I don't think I could take that marker away from a determined woman any easier than I could from an 11-year-old boy.

I think the determined part is more important than the weapon part; you have to have the will to resist. Armed or not. No matter which of the sexes you are.

Kneeing in the groin will disable tha bad guy & even KO him, but it's very difficult; you must get him right in the eggs, and men have learrned by experience to be very crotch-protective. Only try it if you've got a clear shot.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 09:19 AM

dummy wallets with minimal contents are one solution, there used to be the concept (American I'm afraid) of an amount that the mugger would not beat you up for, out of spite. I had one in Honk Kong with cardboard credit cards. The time I nearly had a wallet grabbed was when buying in a public park and it was the real wallet but muggers don't work that way. I was holding it across the width not the thickness and felt a tug - I must have been wary. She (see later) tugged from the other direction and as I looked around had to do 360 - the dip was in the toilets by then - probably the ladies loo. All well worked-out. Lift cash, pass cards to next cubicle and flush all else away. Not that day.

A personal alrm is always a good thing - for reassurance if not anything else. but you have to wear it so that it can be pulled and thrown. I have one with a light - it doubles as a torch and presumeably flashes if set off. The moment has passed when I needed it (in the work place!) but it was re-assuring. Bugger the image thing.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: saulgoldie
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:19 PM

Sorry to hear of your incident, Pauline. I hope you are managing to keep your spirits up.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:29 PM

It was said on the other thread, I'll repeat it here... the aim is not to get even but to GET AWAY.

Do not try to take them on... try to GET AWAY.

Do not kick them in the squishy bits, it's a very small target and you could easily be overbalanced and pushed to the ground... if you really must, use your knee, your centre of gravity isn't changed so much and you are still fairly stable and able to GET AWAY.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:54 PM

If you MUST fight (and flight is preferable, really), go all out. Immediately. Don't hold back. Kick, scream, bite, scratch, scream -- and if you have taken a voice or acting course (or if you sing), you'll know how to project your voice.

Do so.

I've even heard of a martial art based upon the voice. Can't remember what it's called, but from personal experience I know how effective the human voice can be when used correctly (envision a Marine Corps Drill Instructor chewing out a recruit -- the DI is acting, actually, but he certainly seems angry...).

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 02:08 PM

Right. Do whatever it takes to get away. Especially don't let the bad guy tie you up or take you anywhere; if car-jacked, wreck the car. The BG isn't taking you anwhere to do you good.

We recently had an ugly multiple murder here in Coeur d'Alene; The family apparently went along with the killer & let them tie them up. Understandable; he had a shotgun. But the only one of the five alive now is the 8-year-old girl he carried off to rape. The mother brought her & her brother out of her bedroom to the killer, probably because he threatened the others. Better to have sent the kids out the window to get help. It would have been very hard to do, and I don't know if I could do it, but it'd be the best move.

Giving control to the attacker will seldom help you. He's not there to help you.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 06:44 PM

why is our society turning out so many of these turds?

what goes through someones mind before they become one of these strange degenerates on the edges of our society. how can they start to think - hey this is a good idea, great career move.....

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 06:53 PM

I am,unfortunately, well aware of the tragedy in CdA. We in the south have been following it, hoping against hope and cheering when the girl was rescued.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 07:16 PM

My sympathies, Pauline. When I saw the first post was by you, I felt particularly dismayed, as I know you've already been having a pretty tough time, and this just adds to a burden that was already difficult to cope with. Will be thinking of you and hoping that things are improving -- however gradually.

As far as strategies for dealing with attack are concerned, I will relate one I have heard of that worked (although I hesitate to out-and-out recommend it): a young woman was attacked and -- (I think) for lack of being able to think of anything else to do, just lost it and flapped her arms & clucked like a chicken. Apparently the attacker found this so bizarre/bewildering that he stopped his attack on her. I admit it's doubtful as a defense, but if all else fails...

Sending good thoughts your way.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 08:58 PM

Avoid dark places, walk with confidence. If you are going to go for the jewels, use your shin, not your foot.
Carrying a weapon is not always stupid, I could almost pity the poor bastard who comes at me with a weapon.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 09:14 PM

Another "weapon" you might well be carrying is a comb. Slashing with a comb -- lengthwise to the comb, not side to side like you use it -- can be as effective as a knife. A "rat-tail" comb CAN be used as a knife. A hairbrush can also be effective, especially the kind with only a few hard bristles, if you wield slash with it and go for the eyes. Jabbing -- hard! -- with a hair brush can also work.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Janie
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 10:00 PM

Pauline,

I suspect you aren't particularly looking for advise about what to do if there should be a "next" time. Seems pretty clear to me that you did everything that was in your power to do at that time.

I HOPE YOU NEVER TO GO THROUGH ANYTHING LIKE THAT AGAIN.

Your job now is to process this in a way that allows you to move again in the world with some confidence. You have had to deal with so very much in the last few years, and some of those past experiences may resonate rather loudly with this one. Take of yourself, girlfriend, and be merciful with yourself.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Pauline L
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 11:11 PM

Yorkshire Yankee and Janie, thanks for remembering that this is just the most recent of a string of bad experiences I've had in the last few years. Thanks for the extra sympathy.

Re kick in the groin: I was taught in one of my self defense classes not to do this because men "instinctively" defend themselves there.

I was also taught in a self defense class that identifying a person by his/her voice is sometimes more definitive than identification by looks, which people can vary, to some extent, at will. After that, I noticed that I could identify friends by their voices, their singing, or even their whistling. My recent mugging is a case in point. Since my attacker was behind me most of the time and it was dark outside, I did not get a good look at him. I could only tell his approximate weight and height. However, I heard his voice and his accent clearly, and that helped the police identify him as the person who had committed three similar attacks in my neighborhood in recent weeks.

A comb or brush could be great weapons, but I generally don't carry them in my hand as I walk along.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 11:16 PM

You could carry them, though. Without any hassle from the cops, too.

Please do not think for a minute that I do not empathize with you. I do, very much so. I would not want my own neices to be jumped, and I think that it's damned sad that this happens to anyone anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 09:16 AM

Kendall

I doubt the shin is ideal - more chance of connecting and being guided in from more distance & more momentum, but knee aimed right can not be caught so easily in the vice grip that a man is instinctively going to do. Remember he has at least one hand free and if not two then a weapon in the other. I think the distance is the decider, knee close, shin further away, eyes first before deciding.

The recieved wisdom is to make a lot of noise. Loud noises are or should be agressive. Words like NO and if grabbed from behind raise arms and bring elbows down sharply into his ribs or the sides of the solar plexus.

Both the above benefit from training - self defence classes it is then. Plan ahead. Forewarned is forearmed.

But I favour the decoy wallet. If bold enough and planned by having it to hand you could throw it and give yourself a bit of distance. If dark he has to find it. No strategy is ideal, the situation isn't lets face it.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 09:46 AM

A friend of mine, a cop, has suggested a fake wallet. You throw it on the ground, and as the guy picks it up you kick his face in (Art also suggested wearing shoes with metal cleats when you do this, but realized that that wasn't always possible).

My brother took "shooting training" from the Illinois State Police (his employer, although he's not a sworn officer). At the end of the two weeks he qualified to carry a concealed weapon when he was on duty. He sometimes, as a result, packs a .38, a "Chief's Special" that holds five rounds. He feels that he doesn't need more than that because, as he said, "If I need even one round I've made a mistake and probably shouldn't be there."

Carry a small, powerful flashlight, like one of the Maglights that take 2 AA (L6) batteries. You have light, which can blind an assailant, and a heavy aluminium case which can be used as a striking weapon (inside your fist, and hammer with the projecting ends).

I've never found the old "strike with the elbows into the guy's ribs" to be very effective. That's mostly because you can't usually get enough force going to make it work well if you're tightly held from behind and especially if you're held over your arms. Smash the instep instead -- and if you are foolish enough to be wearing high heels, place one of them on the instep and shift your full weight onto that foot.

If you can turn slightly, raise one foot and violently scrape the outside edge of your foot down along the bad guy's leg, from above the assailant's knees and bounce when you hit the instep. That will scrape his patella off AND break his instep.

If you can attack the testicles, use you hand through his clothing. Grab 'em, and yank them hard with a twisting motion. And don't worry about missing -- a man will almost always break his grib on you if reach violently for that part of his anatomy. Moreover, it's harder to block a hand than a knee. (If you do kick someone there, and it's not recommended that you try -- man or woman -- catch them on the end of your shin bone. You can literally raise them off the ground and break their pelvis. Regardless of sex they're gonna hurt.)

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Pauline L
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 01:46 AM

Lots of good suggestions. Thanks. I will look for a new self defense class.

The mugger told me to throw the bills from my wallet onto the ground. Then he stepped on the bills to secure them. That's when I ran away. I asked the police why he did this, and I was told that the mugger probably didn't want me to hand him the money because if I were close enough to hand it to him, I'd be close enough to strike him.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Janie
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 12:28 AM

Just thought it might be good to check in--you doin' ok Pauline?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 01:52 AM

Lots of tough talk from people sitting on their asses in front of a computer screen. NObody knows how they'd react in a similar situation until it happens to them. I'm sorry this happened to you, Pauline. I wish it didn't and I hope it never does again. Most of all, I hope you can deal with it in your own way and don't let it get you down or change you in any negative way.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Pauline L
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 01:54 AM

Thanks, Janie. I'm doing much better than I was a month ago.

Subject: RE: BS: On being mugged
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 11:03 AM

Cluin - I've been there.. this skull didn't get fractured by sitting on my ass in front of a computer. You're right in that no-one knows how they will react, but at least if you've read this thread, you might have a few more ideas if it does happen.

LTS