Tune Add: Mick McGuire/Napoleon Crossing the Rhine

Subject: Tune Add: SHERMAN'S MARCH TO THE SEA / BONAPARTE..
From: Jon W.
Date: 31 Dec 98 - 05:03 PM

This is a spin-off from the Mick McGuire tune request thread. In that thread we found out that an alternate name for the tune of Mick McGuire/Hot Asphalt/The Regular Army O! might be Napoleon Crossing the Rhine. I have a banjo book which has a completely different tune by the name of Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine AKA Sherman's March to the Sea. Here is that tune:

X: 1
T:SHERMAN'S MARCH TO THE SEA
T:BONAPARTE CROSSING THE RHINE
M:4/4
L:1/4
Q:160
S:Ken Perlman's "Basic Clawhammer Banjo"
R:Set Dance
K:C
E F |G G/2A/2 G E/2g/2|G2 c d|e e/2d/2 e g/2g/2|c2
c B|A A/2B/2 c A|G E D~ C|D2 D3/2E/2|D2
EF|G G/2A/2 G/2E/2 C/2E/2|G2 c d|e e/2d/2 e/2d/2 e/2g/2|c2
c B|A A/2B/2 c A|G E D D/2E/2|C2 C3/2D/2|C2 :|
|:c d|e e/2d/2 e f|g2 c B|A A/2G/2 A/2G/2 A/2B/2|c2
c B|A A/2B/2 c A|G E D~ C|D2 D3/2E/2|D2
EF|G G/2A/2 G/2E/2 C/2E/2|G2 c d|e e/2d/2 e/2d/2 e/2g/2|c2
c B|A A/2B/2 c A|G E D D/2E/2|C2 C3/2D/2|C2:|

To make matters worse, I discovered on Henrik Norbeck's website of ABC tunes a hornpipe which has four names: Bonaparte's March, Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine, Napoleon Crossing the Rhine, and Listowel. This tune seems to be much closer to Mick McGuire than the one above. It may be the same tune as MMcG/Hot Asphalt/etc. if the differences in rhythm are ignored.

X: 2
T:Bonaparte's March
T:Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine
T:Napoleon Crossing the Rhine
T:Listowel
R:hornpipe
H:See also #95
Z:id:hn-hornpipe-25
M:C|
K:Ador
EG|A2AB AGEG|cdec d2eg|aged cAGE|G2GA G2EG|
A2AB AGEG|cdec d2eg|aged cABG|A2AG A2:|
|:eg|abag e2ed|cdef g2eg|abag edcA|G2GA G2EG|
A2AB AGEG|cdec d2eg|aged cABG|A2AG A2:|

Does anyone else care to add to the confusion?

Subject: Tune Add: MICK MAGUIRE / HOT ASPHALT
From: alison
Date: 31 Dec 98 - 06:56 PM

Hi,

Here's the MICK MAGUIRE tune from the Clancy brothers songbook.

I can't use ABC to see if it's any different from yours. (This is the tune I know for HOT ASPHALT)

Slainte

alison

MIDI file: MICKMAQU.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: nameless
TimeSig: 6/8 24 4
Key: F
Tempo: 180 (333333 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0720 1 65 042 0478 0 65 042 0002 1 64 042 0238 0 64 042 0002 1 62 048 0478 0 62 048 0002 1 64 037 0238 0 64 037 0002 1 65 044 0478 0 65 044 0002 1 64 034 0238 0 64 034 0002 1 62 042 0478 0 62 042 0002 1 60 050 0238 0 60 050 0002 1 57 052 0478 0 57 052 0002 1 60 043 0238 0 60 043 0002 1 65 045 0478 0 65 045 0002 1 67 045 0238 0 67 045 0002 1 69 051 0435 1 65 043 0495 0 69 051 0246 0 65 043 0039 1 67 059 0718 0 67 059 0002 1 72 040 0478 0 72 040 0002 1 72 054 0238 0 72 054 0002 1 74 050 0478 0 74 050 0002 1 72 044 0238 0 72 044 0002 1 69 049 0478 0 69 049 0002 1 67 053 0238 0 67 053 0002 1 65 050 0478 0 65 050 0002 1 62 049 0238 0 62 049 0002 1 64 053 0478 0 64 053 0002 1 62 034 0238 0 62 034 0002 1 60 053 0478 0 60 053 0002 1 62 038 0238 0 62 038 0002 1 60 038 0478 0 60 038 0002 1 57 042 0238 0 57 042 0002 1 60 050 0718 0 60 050 0002 1 65 053 0478 0 65 053 0002 1 64 035 0238 0 64 035 0002 1 62 037 0435 1 64 044 0470 0 62 037 0250 1 65 043 0321 0 64 044 0411 1 64 040 0483 0 65 043 0258 0 64 040 0015 1 62 042 0478 0 62 042 0002 1 60 032 0238 0 60 032 0002 1 57 045 0478 0 57 045 0002 1 60 048 0238 0 60 048 0002 1 65 054 0478 0 65 054 0002 1 67 053 0238 0 67 053 0002 1 69 049 0478 0 69 049 0002 1 65 041 0238 0 65 041 0002 1 67 050 0718 0 67 050 0002 1 72 052 0478 0 72 052 0002 1 72 042 0238 0 72 042 0002 1 74 050 0478 0 74 050 0002 1 72 037 0238 0 72 037 0002 1 69 054 0478 0 69 054 0002 1 67 040 0238 0 67 040 0002 1 65 050 0238 0 65 050 0002 1 65 048 0238 0 65 048 0002 1 62 028 0238 0 62 028 0002 1 64 048 0238 0 64 048 0002 1 60 038 0238 0 60 038 0002 1 60 040 0238 0 60 040 0002 1 57 049 0478 0 57 049 0002 1 62 053 0238 0 62 053 0002 1 62 044 0478 0 62 044 0002 1 60 037 0238 0 60 037 0002 1 62 050 1440 0 62 050 0000 1 72 049 0238 0 72 049 0002 1 72 046 0238 0 72 046 0002 1 72 041 0238 0 72 041 0002 1 72 049 0220 1 69 049 0243 0 72 049 0238 0 69 049 0027 1 67 046 0235 0 67 046 0030 1 65 048 0442 1 67 048 0478 0 65 048 0238 0 67 048 0015 1 69 046 0475 1 70 057 0523 0 69 046 0238 0 70 057 0002 1 72 052 0478 0 72 052 0002 1 72 040 0238 0 72 040 0002 1 72 043 0478 0 72 043 0002 1 74 032 0238 0 74 032 0002 1 72 036 0718 0 72 036 0002 1 69 036 0478 0 69 036 0002 1 72 037 0238 0 72 037 0002 1 74 045 0478 0 74 045 0002 1 72 029 0238 0 72 029 0002 1 69 052 0238 0 69 052 0002 1 69 042 0232 1 67 038 0255 0 69 042 0248 0 67 038 0000 1 65 045 0478 0 65 045 0002 1 62 042 0238 0 62 042 0002 1 64 041 0478 0 64 041 0002 1 62 034 0238 0 62 034 0002 1 60 036 0238 0 60 036 0002 1 60 031 0238 0 60 031 0002 1 62 048 0238 0 62 048 0002 1 60 043 0478 0 60 043 0002 1 57 044 0238 0 57 044 0002 1 60 045 0718 0 60 045 0002 1 65 050 0478 0 65 050 0002 1 64 036 0238 0 64 036 0002 1 62 043 0238 0 62 043 0002 1 62 033 0238 0 62 033 0002 1 64 046 0238 0 64 046 0002 1 65 047 0460 1 64 049 0483 0 65 047 0233 0 64 049 0027 1 62 036 0478 0 62 036 0002 1 60 037 0238 0 60 037 0002 1 57 048 0478 0 57 048 0002 1 60 059 0238 0 60 059 0002 1 65 038 0478 0 65 038 0002 1 67 048 0238 0 67 048 0002 1 69 059 0238 0 69 059 0002 1 69 036 0238 0 69 036 0002 1 65 034 0238 0 65 034 0002 1 67 061 0718 0 67 061 0002 1 72 048 0238 0 72 048 0002 1 72 042 0238 0 72 042 0002 1 72 044 0238 0 72 044 0002 1 74 045 0238 0 74 045 0002 1 74 042 0238 0 74 042 0002 1 72 050 0238 0 72 050 0002 1 69 054 0478 0 69 054 0002 1 67 045 0238 0 67 045 0002 1 65 045 0238 0 65 045 0002 1 65 041 0238 0 65 041 0002 1 62 033 0238 0 62 033 0002 1 64 042 0238 0 64 042 0002 1 62 045 0238 0 62 045 0002 1 60 038 0238 0 60 038 0002 1 57 037 0238 0 57 037 0002 1 62 040 0238 0 62 040 0002 1 62 038 0238 0 62 038 0002 1 62 040 0447 1 60 041 0483 0 62 040 0271 0 60 041 0002 1 62 043 1440 0 62 043
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the January 15 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:nameless
M:6/8
Q:1/4=180
K:F
F2E|D2EF2E|D2CA,2C|F2GA17/8F3/4z/8|G3c2c|
d2cA2G|F2DE2D|C2DC2A,|C3F2E|D2E9/8F15/8E|
D2CA,2C|F2GA2F|G3c2c|d2cA2G|FFDECC|A,2DD2C|
D6|ccccA7/8G9/8|z/8F2G7/8A9/4B3/4|c2cc2d|
c3A2c|d2cAA9/8G7/8|F2DE2D|CCDC2A,|C3F2E|DDEF2E7/8D/8|
-D2CA,2C|F2GAAF|G3ccc|ddcA2G|FFDEDC|A,DDD2C|
D6||

Subject: RE: Mick McGuire Crossing the Rhine (tune ???)
From: GUEST,Mark linguorhythmatist
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 11:07 PM

Hi all,

Is the tune for Mick McGuire the same as the tune for Duke Tritton's "Sandy Hollow line"?

What is the copyright situation for both tunes?

Subject: RE: Mick McGuire Crossing the Rhine (tune ???)
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 11:31 PM

Alison, the tune you posted is nearly the same as The one Jon W posted - there are only some slight (IMO) differences, mainly in the 2nd part. (Probably to make it more singable.)

Mark, the tune itself is in the public domain. Now, pray tell, what's a "linguorhythmatist?" Is linguorhythm related to diddling or mouth music?

Subject: RE: Mick McGuire Crossing the Rhine (tune ???)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 11:33 PM

G'day Mark,

Sandy Hollow Line certainly does seem to be this tune sung slowly. did not consciously write tunes - he sang words to tunes as he remembered them and then changed the tune to suit the demands of the song (in which he was much the same as any traditional singer ... particularly in the Australian context, where folk song were mostly driven by information. As Duke used to say "If some bloke in 5th row back doesn't understand it ... you've mucked the song up!".

As far as the tune goes, there would be no copyright problem. It is certainly old enough to long in the public domain. Duke's words, of course, (since he died 35 years ago, copyright remains until 2015) would still have copyright protection but nobody is likely to enforce it. Duke's song were freely shared and first published by the Bush Music Club, which looked on all folk song as being in the public domain.

When serious recording occur (eg; ABC TV programs or records) I tend to be contacted as the notional copyright holder by virtue of being the BMC's current editor (for the last 30 years!) and I usually give permission. I have not been able to contact Duke's daughter, Linda McLean for some time ... she was last heard of up the Central Coast area of New South Wales.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Mick McGuire Crossing the Rhine (tune ???)
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 12:20 AM

Cans of worms, oh how we love cans of worms.........

Subject: RE: Mick McGuire Crossing the Rhine (tune ???)
From: GUEST,Mark multilimbolatinist?
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 12:26 AM

Hi all,

My reference to linguorhymatism was a cross reference to another thread about the Roscrea Cows and The Rabbiters song by Stan Wakefield.

I was caught out (trapped perhaps) by some latin verbage.

So I countered with some latin rhythms.

Hence, lingourhythmatist.

30 years as editor of BMC mag. Thats something to be very proud of Bob. It really is legendary.

Do you have your own spot in the National Library yet?

Subject: RE: Mick McGuire Crossing the Rhine (tune ???)
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 12:33 AM

There are a lot of variants in the tune family of Bonaparte's Retreat = Bonaparte/Napoleon crossing the Rhine/ Alps. Tune family below from the Irish tune index on my website. An ABC of the earliest variant, "Gilderoy", is B159 among the broadside ballad tunes there. See also the thread below on Young Edwin in the Lowlands".] S. P. Bayard in 'Dance to the Fiddle, March to the Fife', #169 (7 versions of Gilderoy) remarks that he concentrates on instrumental versions of the tune, because if he started on vocal variants he might never finish. His #277, Bonapartes's Retreat= Bonaparte/ Napoleon Crossing the Rhine/ Alps (8 versions), and his #451, Paddy works on the Railway, are other versions. These are only his traditional ones and he cites many other printings. These are included in Andrew Kuntz 'Fiddler's Companion' index on the Ceolas website [Click from Mudcat's Link, then click on Tunes, then click on Printed Sources, then on Fiddler's Companion. Search for 'Gilderoy' and 'Rhine' or Napoleon']

Tune Family 3: Gilderoy, Green Shores of America, Maria Martin, Lazarus, Come all you worthy Christians, Star of the County Down, Unquiet Grave, King Herod and the Cock, The Tree in the Wood, Bonaparte's Retreat = Bonaparte/Napoleon crossing the Rhine/Alps, The Babe of Bethlehem. [See Lazarus, #56, in Bronson's 'The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads' for many other titles, and locations where the tunes may be found.]

Subject: RE: Mick McGuire Crossing the Rhine (tune ???)
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 04:47 PM

I've added a direct link into Andrew Kuntz's 'Fiddler's Companion' Tune Index in the external URL links on the hompage of my website (which is in Mudcat's Links).