BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.

Subject: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 11:40 AM

The Australian fielders and the wicket keeper in particular seem to have caught the Lord's dropping disease from England.

It has proved costly so far....

258/2 with the England captain - who has scored the first century of the series - heading for an even bigger score.

Any predictions?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 11:58 AM

Well in the other thread I had said draw (partly as someone had forecast rain) and I'll stcik with that. I've hardly seen any play today but I do get the impression the pitch is very true and I suspect Australia may also (as England are on course for) put up a good total.

But, do we ever know?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:18 PM

Jon, that is one of the great beauties of this wonderful game - things change seemingly in an instant. Cricket - the Ambrosia of sport. Bliss.
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:19 PM

And another good thing is that the Americans will never take it over, it being totally beyong their limited intellect.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: gnu
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:35 PM

I resemble that remark.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: gnu
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:36 PM

The reason it will never be taken over by the Yanks is that it's more than several hours long.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:43 PM

I'm not sure about this.

What about this "power play" and a substitute other than to field in one day cricket?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 01:16 PM

Predictions

England will have lost 5 wickets by the end of play.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 01:22 PM

the nation needs a man with your unique qualities as a seer, preferably in a position of power.

when will my outlook express start working again, oh mighty one?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 02:19 PM

When you fix it LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 08:12 PM

I'll predict a draw too. Big first innings scores over four days, no time for a second innigs.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 08:48 PM

Oh fer chrissake - if you're going to predict something - make it interesting - then you will be like Nostradamus and Al Stewart will write songs about you.

I predict........er lets see

the earth will open, and out will jump an army of bogus asylum seekers who are tunneling their way out of Manchester to somewhere decent

Shane warne will forget to put on that white stuff, and his nose will drop off

the match will be drawn but feelings in the crowd will be running so high that they decide to settle it with a penalty shoot out. Beckham misses.

Infuriated at the latest developments in the Big Brother household, the crowd go on a bloody rampage through Manchester from one traffic jam to the next

A special x-ray lens will be inserted into the wickets and the nation will be convulsed with fascination as to which batman has the longest willy.

all this will come to pass my my children, just when you went out to put the kettle on.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 09:13 PM

Yes I see your point.

OK, Ponting will make a first-innings declaration at lunch on 4th day with Australia still 62 runs behind. Australia will win the match.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 11:52 AM

Well on the face of today so far, I would have to change my prediction from a draw. I'd "seen" England sort of 600 declared and Austrailia replying in similar fashion.

England fell short of that but Australia are 129-5. At the moment, you have to strongly favour England's chances but I guess I will stick with my guns and pray for the weather ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 12:02 PM

The batsman's Holding - the bowler's Willey.

I see the ambulance has just delivered a limping Michael Clarke to the ground.

Are Australia going to be forced to follow-on - for the first time since 1989? That statistic does show how good the Australian team have been............

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 12:02 PM

The bowler's Holding... no we've been there before.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 06:33 PM

Well at 7/210 it looks like Oz might be required to follow on, and the English are a real chance for the Ashes.
I know this is just what cricket needs, but gee...

IT'S NOT OVER YET

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Alan Day
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 06:48 PM

It is strange but I expected Australia to come to this test like a wounded lion and show us why they are World Champions and it may yet happen,but England do rather look the better side and much more balanced.
I am still praising Warne however, he is still the star act of the Australian side his bowling has been a joy to watch and his batting has shamed the batsmen in his side.
What a great series and I like the attitude of friendship amongst the players to each other,it is similar to that on this site (cricket lovers, that is).
Al

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 06:50 PM

As you I think said John - have not been back to check who over Freddie Flintoff and somthing like "We've GOT To think that way". You have got to think that way. Both sides must!

And of course, even though I'd seen it as "impossible", I guess we this side of the globe might want to be sniffing the return of the ashes now... And I've forecast a draw...

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 09:25 PM

It's a gripping series. You just can't buy this kind of entertainment, and the enthusiasm is not overwhelming the civility. This is cricket at its best.
Anything can happen and probably will.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 09:33 PM

Any single game that can last four or five days sounds like calvin ball to me.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 01:03 AM

I've never heard of calvin ball, but it sounds OK so far.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 04:48 AM

Ebbie, there was a time when they could last longer but these days (and always in my memory!) they do set a time limit.

There are varients of the game with different limits, the shorter one day versions being limited on overs (I guess in US terms the number of pitches or throws allowed). The one day in a sense can be more exciting as you get to see a result in a short time but the test matches are aptly named and are the big challenge and fascinating even if they don't always produce a chase for runs in a limited time.

For out and out excitement, the last test has to rank as one of the best ever games of cricket. It had everything and down to 2 runs left, none of us knew which way it was going to go. And you saw so many twists and turns, the most significat IMO being "freddy" Flintoff smacking (yes he's a big powerful bloke who can really thump the ball) the ball all over the park, This at a time England seemed dead and buried, On the other hand one only had to watch what Shane Warne was doing with the ball...

In case you don't know Ebbie, in cricket there are different types of bowler and the captain decides who to use when in the game. There are fast bolwers, who can bowl the ball at the batsman at speeds of 90mph but Warne is a slower bowler, a leg spinner and the greatest master of this art I have ever seen. He can make one ball bounce and turn at almost 90 degrees from its original direction and another gathering a little pace on the bounce moving striagt on. And I don't think any batsmen has ever fully worked out exactly what ball is going to do what.

A fast bowler may be trying to do different things like land the ball on the seam to get a deflection/movement or make the ball swing (get a little movement in the air so the ball almost takes a bend in its course). These different arts are so specialised that I believe there has only ever been one bowler who could do more than one style at test level. He (Garry Sobers) is just before my real memory unfortnately.

Anyway, thats just part of the game, deciding what bowler to use when. Then you've got where to put the fielders, eg. do you have them all standing close in case a batsman makes a mistake or do you have them staning further away in case they are hitting the ball well to save runs, have you got a trap that a batsman may fall into? Then there are individual contests within the main contest - effectively the batsman and the bowler trying to show each other just who is the boss of who and so on.

I hope I've managed to explain some of that to you at least fractionally reasonably. Cricket to those of us who enjoy it is absolutely fascinating with all its aspects. I enjoy a lot of sports to watch, mostly ball games including football (soccer) and rugby but for the ultimate challenge, I can think of no game that comes close to cricket.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 05:01 AM

For the rules of cricket.

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/hosking/cricket/explanation.htm

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 05:05 AM

Or in simple terms:-

You have two sides: One out in the field and one in.

Each man that's in the side that's in goes out and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out.

When they are all out the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in out.

Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When both sides have been in and out including the not outs,
That's the end of the game.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 05:39 AM

This from The Times – made me smile.

Pessimistic cricket fans learn to cope with the idea of victory
By David Lister
Years of defeat are proving difficult for English spectators to shake off, despite recent success.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1733076,00.html

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:09 AM

No play yet because of rain.

Half time in the Bledisloe Cup (Rugby). Australia lucky to lead by 13 - 10. New Zealand got a bad decision early, which cost them 5 points at least, prob. 7.
Neither team playing as well as they can.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Flash Company
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:29 AM

I live abooooout 5 miles from OT, it's pouring down here. My guess is no play today!

FC

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:36 AM

John, can't remember asking you. Do you follow "aussie rules"? I've never seen much but think it exciting.

Maybe one day I'll get over there. Got a brother and family in Queensland these days. I doubt it but maybe one winter (I don't think I could cope with a summer) get over there. Then I'll hear (as I do on the phone) my nephiew and niece talking to me in something not resembling the part of England they are from.

The long drift off topic there is really only to say that having (now) "little aussies" in the family gives even more (not that I need it) interest in the ashes though I'm not sure they really follow it yet.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 08:08 AM

The Australians are doing this because they feel that England should win, I just that The English do well, but if England can get a big score so can the Aussies.

Tam

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 08:18 AM

Jon -
In Queensland & New South Wales (I'm from NSW) most follow one or both of the rugby codes but everywhere else its Aussie Rules, so I guess the short answer is 'no I don't'.

BTW, NZ won tonight 30 - 13 but it wasn't a convincing win. Neither team really deserved to win. The Springboks will be rubbing their hands together.

Still no play, eh? Suppose I should be glad.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 08:57 AM

The Australians are doing this because they feel that England should win, I just that The English do well, but if England can get a big score so can the Aussies.

Tam, I dont think either of these sides would wilfully give the other a fraction of a chance for a fraction of a second.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:16 AM

How I wish I enjoy hosre racing,,,

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:22 AM

Guest Jon,

I was only Kidding

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:24 AM

I'm not that daft

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 11:57 AM

Thanks, guys. Actually, that does sound exciting.

"Calvin" ball comes from Calvin and Hobbes a currently defunct comic strip involving a little boy and his large stuffed tiger that in Calvin's life is a real tiger. They spend all day together, sleep together, have long philosophical discussions, quarrel on occasion- and when they play the rules can change midleap, because it's "calvin ball."

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 01:07 PM

Thanks for the info, Ebbie.

You wouldn't have found today exciting BTW. It rained a lot and cricket and rain do not go together. it woun't work if for example the wicket was turned into mud. It's probably odd that a game one could think of as Enlish being so dependant on the weather...

Wonder what England will do from tomorrow. Australia are showing 245 -7 chasing Englands 444. I'll give Australia 300 all out or thier abouts. I'd guess England will want to declare at some point.

Ebbie, declaring is another thing with cricket. Even with 5 days time can be limited and one side needs to be all out (twice in a test) if the game is not to be called a draw. England (currently 199 runs ahead) could in theory bat all the way through on thier next innings (turn) but obviously that would result in a draw. On the other hand, they could decide we have made xxx second time round and there is yyy days left in the game thinking "let's stop now - we have enough runs to win but need this time to bowl them out". Of course England could be spared having to make that choice if they are all bowled out.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 01:31 PM

Is cricket a spectator sport in the sense of bleachers on the side(s of the field? Or do onlookers stand, as in golf?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 02:05 PM

It's a spectator sport in that sense Ebbie, Engaging in other pastimes like going to get yourself a pint of beer or even just falling asleep in the sunshine are allowed while watching :-) (although getting up and going for a pint especially behind a bowler and thus distracting the batsman would not prove popular with players or spectators - one waits until the end of an over (six balls))

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ralphie
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 01:18 AM

Hi Jon/Ebbie

So nice to see a genuine interest in the Game, responded to by a real enthusiast.
Back to this match. Well, it's all up for grabs on this the final day.
Australia have to score 400 odd runs, (Hasn't been done for years, if ever).
England have got to get 10 wickets, not impossible, and the pitch seems to be wearing a bit, (Ebbie, this helps the spin bowlers, as it can make the ball bounce off the pitch even more unpredictably).

Shouldn't make predictions, not after the last match, but I think that the stubborn Shane Warne might frustrate the Brits ambitions. (Shane seems to encapsulate all the fighting flair of Aussies of old)

Anyway, luckily, I'm at home all day, so, the phone is off the hook, and "tinny" in hand, It'll be great, whatever the outcome. May the most courageous team win.   Enjoy!

Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 01:37 AM

Well England did declare their second innings closed having lost 6 wickets for 280 runs, giving them an overall lead of 422.

They put Australia in to bat for their second innings with (I assume) about an hour left of play, hoping to get any early wicket or two so Australia would be in real trouble on the last day.

No wickets fell and Aust. have 24 runs, but that doesn't mean they aren't in real trouble. If they can bat out tomorrow (which is now actually today) without getting all out the game will be a draw.
If Aust. all get bowled out England will have won.
If Aust. get 423 runs they will win. (This is unlikely.)

"They spend all day together, sleep together, have long philosophical discussions, quarrel on occasion" - sounds very much like cricket.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 01:38 AM

Sorry Ralphie, I was composing while you were posting.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ralphie
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 01:56 AM

Hey John.
No probs!
May the best team win...(actually, having seen some of the good natured banter between the teams over the past few weeks, This seems to be the most friendly Ashes series for years. Seems to be real respect on both sides.)
Having said that, the Brits are going to wop the Aussies...Nuff said!!
LOL!

Enjoy Ralphie

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 02:29 AM

No comment - yet

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 03:38 AM

It is pretty hard to get used to - this idea of England winning a test match. It is to late for a batting collapse (usually the most reliable source of the opposition's success), so Australia can just bat out for a draw, in the knowledge that in all likelihood, the British summer will assist them by curtailing the final day's play. I enjoyed that quote:
"They spend all day together, sleep together, have long philosophical discussions, quarrel on occasion"
It sounds a bit like Mudcat on occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 04:37 AM

It sounds just like Mudcat, especially when nobody wins.

LOL
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Torctgyd
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 05:54 AM

First Aussie out: Langer for 14 391 needed with 9 wickets left. A good start to the morning for England

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:37 AM

Drinks. A bit of luck for Oz so far. The batsmen haven't looked confident or comfortable, but with luck, who cares what they look like?

Where did England get all these bloody bowlers from anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:56 AM

My prediction:

With one hand on the Holy Grail, the ECB have the opportunity to put the game where it belongs (let's face it - what is there to come close to THE beautiful game? - and I'm a soccer season ticket-holder!!)

England are probably No. 1 now
The game has never been in better shape
Kids are starting to play the game again
Schools are beginning to wake up to it's value (again)
Channel 4 have transformed education in the art(s) of the game
It's on a new level now

BUT - SKY TV WILL F**K UP THE WHOLE THING
(Thank God for Radio Four & Jaggers)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:59 AM

Oh ............ and Flintoff will bowl Hayden!

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 07:14 AM

....... and England will win the match, comfortably, and the series 3-2

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 08:46 AM

I just hope that Australia will lose to Scotland on Thursday

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,couch potato
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 09:29 AM

3 wickets down now, and the best part of two sessions to play. The Poms have a sniff, but the game swings more and more towards a draw. (that's no result for you cricket novices). Peter Roebuck, former county captain, writes in a weekend 'paper here in Melbourne, that he thinks the Aussies are playing "like the England of old, and the English are playing like Australians!" I'm gratified to hear that the game itself is thriving in the old dart. Kids playing cricket in their own time is where it all starts of course, in the backyard, in parks, whereever. It's always been the case in Oz...
For your collective(I hope)amusement,herewith,

A CHILD'S CHRISTMAS IN WARRNAMBOOL by Dylan Thompson

   One christmas was so like another in those years around
   the sea-town corner now, that I can never remember
   whether it was 106 degrees in 1953 or whether it was 103
   degrees in 1956. All the Christmases roll into one, down
   the wave-roaring salt-squinting years of yesterboy.
   My hand goes into the fridge of imperishable memory, and out come:
   salads and sunburn lotions, the brief exuberant hiss
   of beer being opened and the laugh of wet-haired youths
   around a Zephyr 6, the smell of insect repellant and eucalyptus
   and the distant, constant, slowly listless bang
   of the flywire door. And resting on a formica altar, waiting for
   'ron, the biggest Pav in the world; a magic Pav,
   a cut-and-come-again Pav for all the children in all the towns
   across the wide brown bee-humming trout-fit sheep-rich
   two-horse country.
   And the Aunts. Always the Aunties. In the kitchen on the
   black-and-white photographed beach of the past,
   playing out the rope to a shared childhood,
   caught in the undertow and drifting.
   And some numerous Uncles, wondering why they weren't
   each other, coming around the letterbox to an attacking field
   in the Boxing day test, and being driven handsomely
   by some middle-order nephew, skipping down the
   vowel-flattening pitch and putting the ball into the
   tent-flap on the first bounce of puberty.

And I look up to see the fourth wicket fall...we have all been here before! tantalising!!! long live cricket! It's reassuring to know that our societies/cultures have such pursuits, such fun for goodness' sake! Now for it! Incidentally, dropped catches may tell a tale of woe by stumps. THAT'S my prediction!!

cheers dBranno

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 09:50 AM

Two more wickets have gone down, with the Aussies still short of two hundred. It still looks like a draw, but a bit of luck could force a result.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 11:30 AM

No chance of a draw folks - this England attack are just too varied and too good not to knock 'em over in the time left. Even the magic of Warne can't save them. The crown is about to change heads. The King is dead - long live the King.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 12:14 PM

It's getting exciting - 297/7 with an hour and a quarter to go.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,couched spud
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 12:50 PM

Oh dear, anoother dropped catch! Still, rank full tosses deserve no better than banging on that old picket fence. Body language from the home team doesn't look so good now. They Expected to win, didn't they? Good spirit between the teams, though they could all learn a new word - or are they going for the new record for gratuitous use of the boring f word? And now Pieterson has bashed himself up on those same fence pickets! Penance perhaps? Lots of Aussies will be late for work tomorrow! me included (it's nearly 3am here!)
cheers dBranno

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 02:07 PM

A draw due to a fantastic captain's knock from Ponting.

Roll on the next one.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,yawning on the couch
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 02:18 PM

Oh dear,England snatches defeat from the jaws of victory, again.
Still, the series will continue and the spirit of the old contest is alive and well. NEVER write off the Aussies. And don't blame the the bloody umpires!! Test cricket played with this sort of intensity
is a much better game than the hit'n'giggle version by a long chalk.
A fine big 150+ by the Punter was the obvious match saver, and as for
Warnie (Waaarrrnieeee!), like him or lump him, he's one of the best to have ever played the game. The Poms shouldn't be too downhearted -
you've got a new Fiery Fred, and maybe some others who could conceivably
play quite a few tests for t'old coontry.

and it's goodnight from me (yes, and it's goodnight from him, too)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 03:16 PM

Aye England was lucky, wait till the next game,

I don't like cricket because I think it's one of the most boring 'sport' ever, and it also last 5 days as well, and the two teams wears the same uniform, play for 5 days, get two different scores and yet you can call it a draw.

Tam

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 03:19 PM

john o'l

your original prediction proved right, and I was wrong on all counts

warnes nose, the illegal alien bogus asylum seekers etc - it simply never happened, never came to pass...........

perhpas I got the decade wrong, who knows?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 03:23 PM

It sure was exciting Strollin'.

I personally think England are the match of any team now.

Australia did exceptionally well to stave off defeat.

I have to wonder if the crowd background has any affect on being able to pick the ball up quick enough at Manchester. It might explain why so many catches were dropped.

I can recall when I played cricket, there were certain grounds I hated fielding on, because the background made it difficult to pick the ball up off the bat. A split second being enough to see the sort of chances go down like in this test match just finished.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:11 PM

A draw at this stage is as good as a win. Oz had some luck but so did England. I'm glad it was Ponting who saved it 'cause it was going to be his captaincy I would have blamed for the loss. (I blame his captaincy for not getting the win, but let's not destroy the moment, eh?)

See you at Trent Bridge. One-all. Good stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:13 PM

That isn't fair. I didn't mean it like that.

England's bowlers played well enough for a win. They probably deserved it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 07:07 PM

Picked up the last over on the radio when I left work. Nearly put the car in the ditch with the excitement.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ralphie
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 07:15 PM

OK...That was that.
Still 2 tests to go....will it be exciting, or will it piss down? (reference to late summer English weather)
Discuss
Ralphie.
( BTW Well done Mr Ponting...fine innings. Bah Humbug!)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 07:22 PM

Missed today unfortunately though I'm glad my original forecast came true (only to say told you so says me with a big grin) - I'll have to change my name maybe to Hansiee ?sp to be this good!

Next one I'll go Oz but a big win either way.

I think the observations of power shifts are right BTW and England could well be the next team to beat. I still don't see them being the same force as oz has been for the past few years though. I think they are loosing it a little as well as England coming on.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 09:30 PM

Scoring 371 runs in the second innings of a test, which you are expected to lose, is about as good as you can expect a side to be. It looks likely that Australia will play even better in the subsequent tests, but I will be most surprised if England do. Mind you, I would not half have enjoyed it if that lbw decision had gone England's way in the penultimate over. It would have been nice to rob the Aussies!

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Hrothgar
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 05:37 AM

This is definitely the real thing.

Twenty 20 is for poofters!

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 05:55 AM

Only things there alanabit are the runs didn't matter and Austrailia were only expected to loose as they got there, or were they really expected to loose, I would have expected the ability to bat a day out there, They just seem that bit more jittery at the moment. eg Shambles opening "The Australian fielders and the wicket keeper in particular seem to have caught the Lord's dropping disease from England". One of Australias great strengths to me is that they even manage to catch the 1/2 chance

As I said in my previous post, I do believe them still capable of beating England. I do think the next test is likely to be the decider of the the series. One where one side really gets it together and shows the other who won't find the reserves needed. At the moment I'd back the aussies for that but the way I'm seeing things. next ashes, I could be thinking differently.

All speculation of course and whatever, both sides have really given us a treat. In that sort of context, my above comments seen very nit-picky!

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 07:09 AM

Wake me up when its all over, Mind you when you go the cricket, take a good book with you to read like war and peace.

Scotland play the Aussies on thursday, Come on Scotland

Tam

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 09:10 AM

Mind you when you go the cricket, take a good book with you to read like war and peace.

As I've no doubt you will be doing that when the Aussies play the Scotch, Tam?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 12:02 PM

I'm amazed that some Mudcatters can't see what's staring them right in the face; the Aussies are flat out trying to save their (very considerable) reputation, but it's clearly a case of "King Canute".

The cracks are there for all to see. Without the genius of Shane Warne those cracks will open up big time, so it's only a matter of time.

Shane Warne is the only man now standing between England and the No 1 spot in world cricket. It will take a fair slice of luck (eg Rain/the toss of 2 coins) for them not to relinquish the ashes, and the momentum is firmly with England now. Imagine what will happen after Kevin gets some catching practice!

Face it Oz - Game's Up....

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 12:25 PM

when are lot going to stop calling me Scotch it's Scots,

ah sod it I give up, some people will never learn.

Tam

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 12:30 PM

Hey Tam, didn't that famous Scottish Jew, Rabbi Burns, refer to Scotchmen on occasion? (LOL)
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 12:30 PM

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=83810&messages=28#1542614

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 12:31 PM

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=83810&messages=28#1542614

go to this thread 'are Scotch people rubbish' and you see I'm not the only one that doesn't like being called Scotch.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 12:39 PM

What the hell, I'm Sorry, I just get mad that's all I just don't like getting called Scotch like the Majorty of Scots.

Tam,

It's like when we Scots go aboard we get called English or we come from England, it's like saying to an American do you come from Canada and are you candan (spelling), or an Aussie do you come from New Zealand, and are you a Kiwi

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 01:24 PM

You mean, a draw is the final result? No run offs? No do overs?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 01:38 PM

OK Tam, I'll stop but if you come on here making some to me dubuios comments about England (not that I care except I thought you were being a bit silly), telling us cricket is boring and letting us know about your dislike of being called scotch, don't you think you are setting yourself up a little?

I've only visited your country 3 times (just the way my lifes been) but have enjoyed myself there and (as hopefully I'd do anywhere) got on well with many scots. As for your comments about where your from and other people placing you. I am English but lived many years in Wales so do have some clue over other countries of the UK being thought by some to be suberbs of England, etc.

Whatever, I must try to get back to cricket. Good luck to Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 01:45 PM

A draw means no result Ebbie. Time has run out and (in that case) Australia were still batting,

There is one other result possible, one that nearly happened in the previous test. If Australia had have been out a couple of runs later we would have had a tie. Both teams over 2 innings and 5 days having made the same totals!

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 02:17 PM

There are other means of deciding results BTW, eg. in one day cricket, the number of wickets lost could be considered as a factor is both sides finished with equal scores but these rather more contrived methods don't apply to test cricket and I don't think should.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 06:28 PM

Ebbie -

Both sides go into the game knowing that to win they will need to bowl the other team out completely, twice, and they have five days to do it. That's the game.
If the team batting last can't be bowled out by the end of the fifth day then neither side can be said to have won.

Although Jon is technically correct in saying that a draw is no result, it is tactically important over the course of a five-test series because now England & Oz each have one win and a draw, leaving only two more matches. At present Australia have the Ashes and will retain them with one more win. England need to win both the remaining games to take the Ashes. Australia can afford another draw, even a loss, England cannot afford either.

I expect that's cleared things up for you (grin).

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 06:33 PM

MY MISTAKE!

I just realised. England can win the Ashes with one more win and a draw.

Yes Ebbie, it gets a little confusing.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 06:47 AM

Fine Jon, as for talking about England I'm only kidding I just hope they do well.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 06:59 AM

and you do the same about Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 07:00 AM

Just ignore that message Jon.

I'm Sorry

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 07:04 AM

I'll just get off this thread and just crawl into my wee cupboard

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 07:18 AM

I just get angry sometimes that's all, I'm sorry if I have offneded you lot.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 07:27 AM

Hey, Tam, nothing here we can't move on from or need to keep worrying about. Good luck to you and to Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 07:40 AM

Thank you Jon

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 08:30 AM

Quite simply the greatest game in the world - and a draw IS a result (the 3rd test resulted in a draw) - which seemed like a win for Oz, and a defeat for England in view of the circumstances.

Anyone who thinks that test cricket is boring must be:

(a) Very sad, or
(b) Not sufficiently intelligent to understand the game

The reasons why it is the best (and most skilful) game in the world would fill a book; but I'd be happy to summarise for anyone wanting to walk from the darkness into the light.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:09 AM

I don't think that I'm very sad or not suffciently intelligent to understand the game, mind you I find soccer boring as well, I just don't think it its an excting game that's all, skilful, hiting a ball with a bat or catching it or running, My dad likes it, but its not to everyones taste, we are all different. I just tell you how I feel about cricket.

Tam

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:19 AM

Tam, a bit of advice, don't take that one to heart. I think John had picked up on the important point I had missed about a draw in itself being an important outcome in the sense of (in this case) a series when trying to explain to Ebbie. And I'd thought between you and I we had managed to put any scottish/broing/.... to rest with good feeling.

Strikes me as a bit of a troll in that context, but it may well be LJ's sheer passion for the game coming out.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 09:26 AM

Sorry Jon and LJ I want do it again I promise

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:05 AM

Ijust get passionate about certain things, I don't mean to be a troll, I just write whatever comes to mind whithout thinking about it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:13 AM

Hey Tam, we all get passionate over things. I just don't believe any of us in this thread need to get quite that passionate in terms of falling out, or more accurately over missunderstandings.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 10:42 AM

OK that's fine.

tam

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ralphie
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 05:58 PM

Tam... No offence meant,(by Jon) and I'm sure none taken, either way. Know what you mean,I hate it when I'm accused of playing Irish music, when It's patently English!!

Ebbie, to answer your question, why "No run offs, No do-overs?..(like that one, sounds like fun!)
The simple reason is that us Brits love to wear the hair shirt.
5 Match tests in the UK are like drawing teeth. Takes ages, and there is blood everywhere!

The situation as it stands is Australia 1, England 1, Drawn match 1.

We now have to wait 8 days before the fourth match. If you were here, you could expect acres of newsprint from both teams (in a mainly witty style) slagging/sledging the others over the next week.

Just Par for the course, and adds to the tension (and Bums on seats for the next game!)

It's been reported here in the UK, that the interest in the last test was huge, even with reduced ticket prices for the last day, and although the ground capacity in Manchester was 21,000 ....10,000 people couldn't get in!!

Cricket is the new Black!

As I might have said before, the great thing for me, is the mutual respect between the two teams. When the Brits won the second test, apart from jubilation, several UK players made a point of showing sympathy for their defeated foes. (Hugs/Kind words etc)

Truly a fine game.

Roll on next Thursday. and, thanks for your interest in our quaint pastime...Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ralphie
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 05:59 PM

Just to get the 100 (Known as a century in cricketing terms!!

Ralph

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Hrothgar
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 06:10 AM

England MIGHT win the series with a win and a draw.

So might Australia.

I wouldn't say "can" without a more certain foundation.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 06:12 AM

Scotland V Australia, the weather up here is crap, BLOODY RAIN

Well if this last all day, then we can say we didn't get beat by the Australians

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:12 AM

Are the scots playing in their kilts?