BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.

Subject: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 11:40 AM

The Australian fielders and the wicket keeper in particular seem to have caught the Lord's dropping disease from England.

It has proved costly so far....

258/2 with the England captain - who has scored the first century of the series - heading for an even bigger score.

Any predictions?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 11:58 AM

Well in the other thread I had said draw (partly as someone had forecast rain) and I'll stcik with that. I've hardly seen any play today but I do get the impression the pitch is very true and I suspect Australia may also (as England are on course for) put up a good total.

But, do we ever know?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:18 PM

Jon, that is one of the great beauties of this wonderful game - things change seemingly in an instant. Cricket - the Ambrosia of sport. Bliss.
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:19 PM

And another good thing is that the Americans will never take it over, it being totally beyong their limited intellect.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: gnu
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:35 PM

I resemble that remark.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: gnu
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:36 PM

The reason it will never be taken over by the Yanks is that it's more than several hours long.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 12:43 PM

I'm not sure about this.

What about this "power play" and a substitute other than to field in one day cricket?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 01:16 PM

Predictions

England will have lost 5 wickets by the end of play.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 01:22 PM

the nation needs a man with your unique qualities as a seer, preferably in a position of power.

when will my outlook express start working again, oh mighty one?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 02:19 PM

When you fix it LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 08:12 PM

I'll predict a draw too. Big first innings scores over four days, no time for a second innigs.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 08:48 PM

Oh fer chrissake - if you're going to predict something - make it interesting - then you will be like Nostradamus and Al Stewart will write songs about you.

I predict........er lets see

the earth will open, and out will jump an army of bogus asylum seekers who are tunneling their way out of Manchester to somewhere decent

Shane warne will forget to put on that white stuff, and his nose will drop off

the match will be drawn but feelings in the crowd will be running so high that they decide to settle it with a penalty shoot out. Beckham misses.

Infuriated at the latest developments in the Big Brother household, the crowd go on a bloody rampage through Manchester from one traffic jam to the next

A special x-ray lens will be inserted into the wickets and the nation will be convulsed with fascination as to which batman has the longest willy.

all this will come to pass my my children, just when you went out to put the kettle on.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 09:13 PM

Yes I see your point.

OK, Ponting will make a first-innings declaration at lunch on 4th day with Australia still 62 runs behind. Australia will win the match.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 11:52 AM

Well on the face of today so far, I would have to change my prediction from a draw. I'd "seen" England sort of 600 declared and Austrailia replying in similar fashion.

England fell short of that but Australia are 129-5. At the moment, you have to strongly favour England's chances but I guess I will stick with my guns and pray for the weather ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 12:02 PM

The batsman's Holding - the bowler's Willey.

I see the ambulance has just delivered a limping Michael Clarke to the ground.

Are Australia going to be forced to follow-on - for the first time since 1989? That statistic does show how good the Australian team have been............

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 12:02 PM

The bowler's Holding... no we've been there before.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 06:33 PM

Well at 7/210 it looks like Oz might be required to follow on, and the English are a real chance for the Ashes.
I know this is just what cricket needs, but gee...

IT'S NOT OVER YET

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Alan Day
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 06:48 PM

It is strange but I expected Australia to come to this test like a wounded lion and show us why they are World Champions and it may yet happen,but England do rather look the better side and much more balanced.
I am still praising Warne however, he is still the star act of the Australian side his bowling has been a joy to watch and his batting has shamed the batsmen in his side.
What a great series and I like the attitude of friendship amongst the players to each other,it is similar to that on this site (cricket lovers, that is).
Al

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 06:50 PM

As you I think said John - have not been back to check who over Freddie Flintoff and somthing like "We've GOT To think that way". You have got to think that way. Both sides must!

And of course, even though I'd seen it as "impossible", I guess we this side of the globe might want to be sniffing the return of the ashes now... And I've forecast a draw...

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 09:25 PM

It's a gripping series. You just can't buy this kind of entertainment, and the enthusiasm is not overwhelming the civility. This is cricket at its best.
Anything can happen and probably will.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 09:33 PM

Any single game that can last four or five days sounds like calvin ball to me.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 01:03 AM

I've never heard of calvin ball, but it sounds OK so far.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 04:48 AM

Ebbie, there was a time when they could last longer but these days (and always in my memory!) they do set a time limit.

There are varients of the game with different limits, the shorter one day versions being limited on overs (I guess in US terms the number of pitches or throws allowed). The one day in a sense can be more exciting as you get to see a result in a short time but the test matches are aptly named and are the big challenge and fascinating even if they don't always produce a chase for runs in a limited time.

For out and out excitement, the last test has to rank as one of the best ever games of cricket. It had everything and down to 2 runs left, none of us knew which way it was going to go. And you saw so many twists and turns, the most significat IMO being "freddy" Flintoff smacking (yes he's a big powerful bloke who can really thump the ball) the ball all over the park, This at a time England seemed dead and buried, On the other hand one only had to watch what Shane Warne was doing with the ball...

In case you don't know Ebbie, in cricket there are different types of bowler and the captain decides who to use when in the game. There are fast bolwers, who can bowl the ball at the batsman at speeds of 90mph but Warne is a slower bowler, a leg spinner and the greatest master of this art I have ever seen. He can make one ball bounce and turn at almost 90 degrees from its original direction and another gathering a little pace on the bounce moving striagt on. And I don't think any batsmen has ever fully worked out exactly what ball is going to do what.

A fast bowler may be trying to do different things like land the ball on the seam to get a deflection/movement or make the ball swing (get a little movement in the air so the ball almost takes a bend in its course). These different arts are so specialised that I believe there has only ever been one bowler who could do more than one style at test level. He (Garry Sobers) is just before my real memory unfortnately.

Anyway, thats just part of the game, deciding what bowler to use when. Then you've got where to put the fielders, eg. do you have them all standing close in case a batsman makes a mistake or do you have them staning further away in case they are hitting the ball well to save runs, have you got a trap that a batsman may fall into? Then there are individual contests within the main contest - effectively the batsman and the bowler trying to show each other just who is the boss of who and so on.

I hope I've managed to explain some of that to you at least fractionally reasonably. Cricket to those of us who enjoy it is absolutely fascinating with all its aspects. I enjoy a lot of sports to watch, mostly ball games including football (soccer) and rugby but for the ultimate challenge, I can think of no game that comes close to cricket.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 05:01 AM

For the rules of cricket.

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/hosking/cricket/explanation.htm

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 05:05 AM

Or in simple terms:-

You have two sides: One out in the field and one in.

Each man that's in the side that's in goes out and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out.

When they are all out the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in out.

Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When both sides have been in and out including the not outs,
That's the end of the game.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 05:39 AM

This from The Times – made me smile.

Pessimistic cricket fans learn to cope with the idea of victory
By David Lister
Years of defeat are proving difficult for English spectators to shake off, despite recent success.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1733076,00.html

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:09 AM

No play yet because of rain.

Half time in the Bledisloe Cup (Rugby). Australia lucky to lead by 13 - 10. New Zealand got a bad decision early, which cost them 5 points at least, prob. 7.
Neither team playing as well as they can.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Flash Company
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:29 AM

I live abooooout 5 miles from OT, it's pouring down here. My guess is no play today!

FC

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:36 AM

John, can't remember asking you. Do you follow "aussie rules"? I've never seen much but think it exciting.

Maybe one day I'll get over there. Got a brother and family in Queensland these days. I doubt it but maybe one winter (I don't think I could cope with a summer) get over there. Then I'll hear (as I do on the phone) my nephiew and niece talking to me in something not resembling the part of England they are from.

The long drift off topic there is really only to say that having (now) "little aussies" in the family gives even more (not that I need it) interest in the ashes though I'm not sure they really follow it yet.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 08:08 AM

The Australians are doing this because they feel that England should win, I just that The English do well, but if England can get a big score so can the Aussies.

Tam

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 08:18 AM

Jon -
In Queensland & New South Wales (I'm from NSW) most follow one or both of the rugby codes but everywhere else its Aussie Rules, so I guess the short answer is 'no I don't'.

BTW, NZ won tonight 30 - 13 but it wasn't a convincing win. Neither team really deserved to win. The Springboks will be rubbing their hands together.

Still no play, eh? Suppose I should be glad.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 08:57 AM

The Australians are doing this because they feel that England should win, I just that The English do well, but if England can get a big score so can the Aussies.

Tam, I dont think either of these sides would wilfully give the other a fraction of a chance for a fraction of a second.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:16 AM

How I wish I enjoy hosre racing,,,

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:22 AM

Guest Jon,

I was only Kidding

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Tam the man
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:24 AM

I'm not that daft

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 11:57 AM

Thanks, guys. Actually, that does sound exciting.

"Calvin" ball comes from Calvin and Hobbes a currently defunct comic strip involving a little boy and his large stuffed tiger that in Calvin's life is a real tiger. They spend all day together, sleep together, have long philosophical discussions, quarrel on occasion- and when they play the rules can change midleap, because it's "calvin ball."

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 01:07 PM

Thanks for the info, Ebbie.

You wouldn't have found today exciting BTW. It rained a lot and cricket and rain do not go together. it woun't work if for example the wicket was turned into mud. It's probably odd that a game one could think of as Enlish being so dependant on the weather...

Wonder what England will do from tomorrow. Australia are showing 245 -7 chasing Englands 444. I'll give Australia 300 all out or thier abouts. I'd guess England will want to declare at some point.

Ebbie, declaring is another thing with cricket. Even with 5 days time can be limited and one side needs to be all out (twice in a test) if the game is not to be called a draw. England (currently 199 runs ahead) could in theory bat all the way through on thier next innings (turn) but obviously that would result in a draw. On the other hand, they could decide we have made xxx second time round and there is yyy days left in the game thinking "let's stop now - we have enough runs to win but need this time to bowl them out". Of course England could be spared having to make that choice if they are all bowled out.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 01:31 PM

Is cricket a spectator sport in the sense of bleachers on the side(s of the field? Or do onlookers stand, as in golf?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 02:05 PM

It's a spectator sport in that sense Ebbie, Engaging in other pastimes like going to get yourself a pint of beer or even just falling asleep in the sunshine are allowed while watching :-) (although getting up and going for a pint especially behind a bowler and thus distracting the batsman would not prove popular with players or spectators - one waits until the end of an over (six balls))

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ralphie
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 01:18 AM

Hi Jon/Ebbie

So nice to see a genuine interest in the Game, responded to by a real enthusiast.
Back to this match. Well, it's all up for grabs on this the final day.
Australia have to score 400 odd runs, (Hasn't been done for years, if ever).
England have got to get 10 wickets, not impossible, and the pitch seems to be wearing a bit, (Ebbie, this helps the spin bowlers, as it can make the ball bounce off the pitch even more unpredictably).

Shouldn't make predictions, not after the last match, but I think that the stubborn Shane Warne might frustrate the Brits ambitions. (Shane seems to encapsulate all the fighting flair of Aussies of old)

Anyway, luckily, I'm at home all day, so, the phone is off the hook, and "tinny" in hand, It'll be great, whatever the outcome. May the most courageous team win.   Enjoy!

Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 01:37 AM

Well England did declare their second innings closed having lost 6 wickets for 280 runs, giving them an overall lead of 422.

They put Australia in to bat for their second innings with (I assume) about an hour left of play, hoping to get any early wicket or two so Australia would be in real trouble on the last day.

No wickets fell and Aust. have 24 runs, but that doesn't mean they aren't in real trouble. If they can bat out tomorrow (which is now actually today) without getting all out the game will be a draw.
If Aust. all get bowled out England will have won.
If Aust. get 423 runs they will win. (This is unlikely.)

"They spend all day together, sleep together, have long philosophical discussions, quarrel on occasion" - sounds very much like cricket.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 01:38 AM

Sorry Ralphie, I was composing while you were posting.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Ralphie
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 01:56 AM

Hey John.
No probs!
May the best team win...(actually, having seen some of the good natured banter between the teams over the past few weeks, This seems to be the most friendly Ashes series for years. Seems to be real respect on both sides.)
Having said that, the Brits are going to wop the Aussies...Nuff said!!
LOL!

Enjoy Ralphie

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 02:29 AM

No comment - yet

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 03:38 AM

It is pretty hard to get used to - this idea of England winning a test match. It is to late for a batting collapse (usually the most reliable source of the opposition's success), so Australia can just bat out for a draw, in the knowledge that in all likelihood, the British summer will assist them by curtailing the final day's play. I enjoyed that quote:
"They spend all day together, sleep together, have long philosophical discussions, quarrel on occasion"
It sounds a bit like Mudcat on occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 04:37 AM

It sounds just like Mudcat, especially when nobody wins.

LOL
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Torctgyd
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 05:54 AM

First Aussie out: Langer for 14 391 needed with 9 wickets left. A good start to the morning for England

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:37 AM

Drinks. A bit of luck for Oz so far. The batsmen haven't looked confident or comfortable, but with luck, who cares what they look like?

Where did England get all these bloody bowlers from anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:56 AM

My prediction:

With one hand on the Holy Grail, the ECB have the opportunity to put the game where it belongs (let's face it - what is there to come close to THE beautiful game? - and I'm a soccer season ticket-holder!!)

England are probably No. 1 now
The game has never been in better shape
Kids are starting to play the game again
Schools are beginning to wake up to it's value (again)
Channel 4 have transformed education in the art(s) of the game
It's on a new level now

BUT - SKY TV WILL F**K UP THE WHOLE THING
(Thank God for Radio Four & Jaggers)

Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes @ Old Trafford.
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:59 AM

Oh ............ and Flintoff will bowl Hayden!