How To Sing Harmony

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 Jan 99 - 04:12 PM

Hey Roger, Does it help to have a forked tongue for Tuvan overtones? harpgirl (just asking)

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: hank
Date: 08 Jan 99 - 09:33 AM

Great advice. BTW, don't be afraid to clash hard with the melody once in a while. Some of my favoite harmony parts do it all the time.

What I mean is if the melody is decending by steps (sol fa me re do) you accend starting (fa sol la ti do) If you look at the combination it is sol-fa (ninth) fa-sol (seventh. If your listening each part takes the others note but an octave away)) me-la (okay) re-ti do-do (a unison that you were building to all along). When you match the harmony to the lyrics you are doing good. The above works great, other times doesn't.

Anouther thing to watch is when the melody isn't moving (the last line of "songs of zion" comes to mind) ie they are do-do-do-do-do you only do a few small moves. maybe do-do-ti-ti-do, which will clash horridly, but because you were clashing earlier it makes the unison sound better then it normally would. I also like the way it sounds, you start the line with a unison, then one part goes flat, and then it comes back. It sounds wonderful when you know what is happening.

Avoid clashing on the last word of a line, espessially if it is a longer note. You want unisons or chords there. In between an occosional clash will make the last word sound better. Use this to make the most imporant points sound nice, and the things leading up to them sound worse. Your harmony can in fact change the meaning of a song.

Note that the above looked at things from the point of two parts. Adding more parts makes it tricky, one part clashing is different from the melody clashing with the harmony. If your singing with more parts you need to know what the other parts are doing, without letting them mess you up.

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Rosie
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 11:17 PM

For High School graduation they trained (in 1 week )the whole flock of us to sing "Sunrise Sunset" in harmony. (Separated the ewes from the rams and taught us to sing one part only of the song). Later they brought us together with the music and each other. Garsh, it sounded so pretty. My mother-in-law can sing harmony as easily as the rest of us tie shoelaces. It is not easy, I have discovered. Singing in the car to well known tunes helps me (as long as the tune is "Sunrise Sunset") because the proximity of the windshield is sort of like the hand-to-mouth/ear technique. You get your own feedback. It takes some concentration to filter out the foreground of a song to hear the other pieces of it. Those of us who had quadraphonic stereos in the olden days were able to "zoom in" on the different layers of the song, and match voices with it. Thanks to Barry and John/Brisbane for the tips on where to get more instruction on harmony singing.

Thanks to all for your harmonious thoughts,

Rosie

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 10:51 PM

Goodnight,

I am getting carried away. Want to learn how to do this throat singing? CLICK HERE!!!

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 10:44 PM

Neil,

At first, I was just being lazy. It is past my bedtime and I should get up early tomorrow. They are calling for snow in the AM and it makes commutes treacherous (and mine is 35 miles one way).

I decided not to go to bed stupid, however. A quick (and I do mean quick0 search got me the following site. CLICK HERE to read up on Tuvan overtones.

The nice thing is, I didn't lie very much in my previous posting. By the way, I should credit Anne Hills for the information I gave. She can do a double overtone.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 10:39 PM

Neil,

I am nearly ignorant on Tuvan overtones, but what I do know is that there are ways of sounding notes with the human voice that allows you to get two notes going at the same time. I believe the techniques were often devised by monks for chanting (obviously they had a lot of spare time on their hands) Tuvan overtones is just one of these methods. This next part may be a lie. I believe some of these monks are able to get three notes going at the same time.

If you like Gregorian chanting, these overtones may appeal to you.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 10:38 PM

Neil Lowe--

Folks from Tuva (in Central Asia, just North of Mongolia) have a way of singing using harmonics. This is sometimes called "throat singing" though that term isn't useful in describing what's done. They'll sing a note in the middle (or bottom) of their range as a drone, and then use their lips the way you would with a jew's harp to create overtones with harmonics, about an octave or two higher than the fundamental note their producing with their vocal chords. When they get good, they use their glottis instead of their lips.

If you'd like to hear this stuff (and it's worth hearing!), get hold of the Smithsonian Folkways Album "Tuva, Voices from Central Asia" or anything by the group Hun Huur Tu.

I would say you have to hear this stuff to believe it, but hearing is not believing! When a Tuvan singer appeared at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival in Washington, DC in 1988, at every session he was invariably asked if he could step away from the microphone and sing in overtones. He did. People still didn't believe it, but at least it was demonstrated to them that it wasn't some kind of electronic trick done with the sound system.

--Charlie Baum, who sometimes produces overtones

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 09:15 PM

Gee, Barry, I thought you were talking about a musical palindrome, or something like that. Are there such things, songs that are the same backwards and forwards? Might be a good thread topic, someday.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 09:06 PM

On that post above, I should've just been saying try it as a round. Talk about not being able to print out what I was trying to explain. Barry

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Animaterra
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 07:36 PM

I've just finished arranging songs for my chorus' spring season. For the first time I realized that as I write out the harmonies in 3 & 4 parts, I'm just writing them the way I would sing them if I were harmonizing that part in the song. At first I was bugged by that thought, then realized that it may give a more "natural" harmony sound than if I tried to get all high-falutin' and choral sounding (look what happened to perfectly good folk songs when R. Vaughn Williams got to them- not that they aren't good arrangements, they just aren't folk music any more!). So, I agree with everyone who says- just listen to other people harmonize, and try to copy their style when among friends. If it sounds good, it is good!

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 06:39 PM

This is in the DT with tune for those that don't know it. Try having someone sing the first two lines of the chorus the way it's written & you try sing the melody reversed. Meaning the last two lines of the chorus's melody for the first & the melody of the first two lines for the last two It's hard to explain how to use harmony, it's easier to give an example, for me anyway. This, I think, would be close to what Susan-Marie was calling counter melody. For those of us not blessed with a natural sense of hearing the harmony, I think the more you practice it the more you can hear it & then sing it. I sometimes try to learn the words & melody then start to break it down & slowly start to change to the harmony. Barry

WIND MILL (Alan Bell)

Around and around and around went the big sails Turning the shaft in the great wooden wheels. Creaking and groaning, the millstone kept turning Grinding to flour the corn from the fields

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Barbara
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 04:51 PM

Tips on harmony singing:
Stand next to someone who knows how and copy them.
Sing rounds
Practice singing harmony to tapes in the car
Do it whenever you can
Playing a chord based instrument helps
Sing just the last note of the line in harmony, or just certain downbeats. Dont sing the rest of the song.
Use your hand from mouth to ear to hear what you are singing
Don't sing loud until you are sure, and maybe not then either
(I'm seriously guilty of breaking this rule, especially late at night)
Sing a fast run on a long note until you hear one of your notes working and stop there
Build a bass harmony by singing I, IV, V, I notes and shuffling them. (that's do, fa, so, do, or in C, it would be C, F, G, C)
If you know chords, sing arpeggios starting with the note you want to harmonize to.(I see why they made a tape) this is really easy to show, and just about impossible to explain in words)
Keep trying
Sing with forgiving friends, and don't do it where it will make a problem if you're wrong.
I.E. learn to listen, not just sing.
Some songs lend themselves to drones (singing the same note all the way through). Experiment with this quietly. (hold your hand to your ear, or in front of your mouth, to hear what you are doing more clearly.)
Forgive your mistakes.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 08:45 AM

Joe Offer - I think I understand what you're trying to say about harmony not following the same logic as melody. I have an alto voice so I've been singing harmony all my life, and whether it's a natural talent or years of practice, I can usually pick out a harmony to almost anything.

I've found that there are two kinds of harmony, harmony that's dependent on the melody, and harmony that could stand on its own (what I call counter melody). The first kind of harmony is most common and you're right, it can be hard to predict what note to sing based on the one you just sang, because it all depends on what the melody is doing AND what kind of "feel" the harmony is creating (e.g., simple thirds, more "open-sounding" fifths, or the rhythmic percussion harmony that's typical of bass parts).

Anyway, I can't explain it because I have no music theory knowledge, but I think you're on the right track if you try to recognize different kinds of harmony "moods" and take it from there. Good luck. As soon as my cash flow improves I'll be checking out the Fink/Marxer tapes, I'm sure I could learn a lot from them.

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 07:46 AM

Charlie Baum,

I can't help it. I have to ask: What are Tuvan overtones?

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jan 99 - 04:58 AM

I recently found out how right you are, Frank. I made a big step forward about 6 months ago. Somebody in our song circle suggested that we sing softly enough that we could hear the different voices blend. I have always prided myself in the power of my voice, so it took me some effort (and humility) to quiet down a bit. It really has helped me - possibly the most important thing I've learned about music in ten years.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Frank in the swamps
Date: 06 Jan 99 - 02:48 PM

Whether you're trying to sing harmony, or trying to play an instrument better, you must learn to listen better. People tend to focus on the part of a song that most interests them and it's surprising sometimes how much of a tune they are actually not getting on a conscious level. Guitarists tend to listen to the guitar part, fiddlers the fiddle, etc.

Occasionally concentrate on a different part, even if it's a relatively dull part. Imagine you are the player/singer and you are responsible for that part, even if it's boring. You can't just happily get "into" the melody and groove along, you have to make sure that support is dead on. It does wonders for your ear, and that is where harmony singing starts.

Frank i.t.s.

p.s. "W.V.Serenader" I love corn but I think pop harmony comes in a can, I've only seen hominy in a paper sack.

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 06 Jan 99 - 01:59 PM

Whichever Joe above said "if you can't, don't" is wrong! The way to learn to sing harmony is to keep doing it. Sing quietly enough not to bother your neighbors and friends, until you've got the harmony down on a song, but don't be afraid to softly experiment. I'm a pretty good harmonizer, but I love to try out new,sophisticated, and daring harmonies from time to time, and the only way to tell if my theories about new harmony lines will work is to try them out in practice. And you can't sing harmony alone. (Unless, of course, you're into Tuvan overtones, but that's another thread.)

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 06 Jan 99 - 06:01 AM

Well, Joe Offer, now I know why the "Joe" posting seemed so out of character for you. It's because it was so out of character that it wasn't even you.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jan 99 - 01:30 AM

Ah, it's good to see another Joe around. Welcome, Brother Joe!
I seem to be able to pick up the melody of songs almost automatically. I'm just starting to get an idea why that is - I guess it's that certain note progressions work, and certain ones don't. You can pretty-much figure that the next note is going to be one of two or three choices. I can't really read music, but I can fake it pretty well.
Now, I'm trying to figure out how to thransfer that "natural" ability on to harmony singing, but it seems the note progressions in harmony are quite different. The harmony part of a song is rarely a solid third or fifth above or below the melody - when sund alone, the harmony part seems to have a different character, a different "feel." I think if I could figure out what that character is, I sould sing harmony without much effort.
Does anybody understand what I'm getting at?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 05 Jan 99 - 10:16 PM

Joe, Joe, Joe,

I beg to differ with you. Truly, some people are blessed with a "natural' ability to pick out the intervals and produce harmony lines. I am not one of those people.

The first requirement is an ability to sing melody. If you can't do that right now, harmony will not be any easier (in fact, it is harder). But if you can sing melody, I think you can be trained to sing harmony. Perhaps not to the point of jumping in on songs which you have never heard (some can do that), but certainly on songs where you know the melody down pat.

I just could not carry a tune in a bucket for years. Eventually, with regular practice, I learned to carry the melody, but I had no clues about harmony. With more practice, I learned a little harmony, but it was uncertain, shaky, and prone to sharps and flats that were not intended. Now, with practice, I have learned to sing harmony and songs I know well, and occasionally, I can pick up a harmony after a two or three verses on a song with which I am unfamiliar.

Don't discourage the new comer, Joe. Of course, I would recommend that most of your practice take place in the sanctity of your own home or vehicle. Certainly, you do not want to practice in the song circle next to Joe (or me ). Save your public efforts for songs you know well, at first, and sing them softly until you have some confidence.

I love to listen to three-part harmony and I used to think the trio's just picked it up. Having talked to people in trio's I know there is a great deal of hard work and trial and error to get those great blends!

Keep on singing, in harmony if you can.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Joe
Date: 05 Jan 99 - 09:28 PM

If you have to ask, you can't afford it. Harmony is a natural thing, hearing different parts. Try as one may, there is a natural harmonious flow that some people can and some people can't hear. If you can't, do your friends a favor and don't! No offense meant. Been there, done that.

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 05 Jan 99 - 08:40 PM

Hallelujah! I believe that Barry Taylor's site is the perfect place to find some pre-written harmonies to interesting songs.

I like NoteWorthy Composer as a shareware notation package, but there is a freeware version called NoteWorthy Player which presumably is a bit easier to use than the real Hoot McGloot version (haven't used that expression in years - where did it come from?).

I don't browse the shareware sites like I used to - there's not a lot of new Win 3.1 stuff for troglodytes like me - but there used to be a great package called Midi(Art) Player (I think) which let you fiddle with track volumes, and transpose key, or change the playback speed etc. There are probably a number of others available that have similar functionality and are very easy to use.

Regards
John

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: West Virginian Serenader
Date: 05 Jan 99 - 09:18 AM

Golly! What you can larn at Mudcat! We alus thot that hominy come in a can. That's not too corny for you folks, now?

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: hank
Date: 05 Jan 99 - 08:56 AM

Don,
Accually I dind snging harmony easier then the melody in most church music. The Melody covers a large range, but often the harmony is a much simpler part. Personally I find singing the alto part down and octave works best for me, the tenor part is too high (I can get it, but not without warming up my voice) and the bass part is way too low.

If your the only one singing harmony it doesn't matter what you sing, if it doesn't clash too often that is the way you ment it. If others are singing harmony though, then you better be right or you will clash too often. The melody is of course much easier, but with practice you can do it.

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Barry Taylor
Date: 05 Jan 99 - 01:53 AM

I agree with those who said that harmonizing is easier than *teaching* someone how to do it. Those tapes sound like a terrific resource.

Some of the midi files in my tunebook web site may help, too, as they almost always contain a harmony line on its own track. To learn harmony from these (or any other midi files you find) download Noteworthy, a shareware sequencing package. Use it to isolate the melody line and harmony line, then reduce the relative volume of the melody line and follow the harmony, both aurally and visually through the notation.

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Mountain Tyme
Date: 05 Jan 99 - 12:33 AM

When you first "get it" you will be elated! At first the harmony is elusive..but..any instrument...when a chord is played...has several of the harmonics within it. Just find the one that matches "your" vocal range. I started this way and can find three or four harmonics this way whithin a chord. Listen to the master Dr. Ralph Stanley, he will sing more than one harmonic at the same time for any given melody note. For a beginning I think singing "rounds" will allow searching for that elusive note over and over till you find it. Try the chosen round in all the keys until you hear "your" key. Cheers!!

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 11:35 PM

I guess that we all know this, but adding even one simple harmony to a simple melody creates something truly beautiful. I can do it but I don't have a real clue as to how to help others learn.

There are some of us who could put down a simple midi harmony track or two for some well known songs and contribute to the forum, but I don'ts know whether that would help. There still seems to be a giant barrier here to fully exploiting midis which only certain stubborn individuals are able to crack.

Regards
John

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Don Meixner
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 10:48 PM

Dw,

I am envious of anyone who can sing in a church choir. Harmony or melody. I have been singing for 40 of my 48 years and have always been in that vocal range that is either too high or too low for the key signature in the hymnal. At Christmas I do my best but I can only squeak or croak along to "Wild Shepards Washed Their Socks By Night". And "Old Holey Mice" is a complete disaster.

Regards

Don

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 10:31 PM

Hi, dwditty - I can't give you much of an answer. Like you, the only harmony I have done successfully is the stuff I learned the hard way, note by note, in the church choir. There's one woman in the choir who's able to sing harmony almost automatically, and that's what I'm trying to learn. The tapes have taught me a lot, but I still have a long way to go. ask me in a year or so. It turned out not to be as easy as I hoped.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 09:11 PM

dwditty,

You would be prepared when those multiple personalities come out.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: dwditty
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 08:55 PM

I have learned to sing harmony by joining the church choir - much harder than I would have thought, but very satisfying. Joe, do you think the harmony tapes will help my gigs, which have always been solo acts?

dw

Subject: RE: How To Sing Harmony
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 07:41 PM

I havent mastered singing harmony, but I'll agree that the tapes are terrific. Click here to get to the Homespun Tapes Web site. The harmony program is now available on CD, for the same $37.50 I paid for the cassettes last summer. Darn.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: How To Sing Harmony
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 06:50 PM

I have copied the following from another thread:

Subject: RE: Old Folkers From: Roger in Baltimore Date: 04-Jan-99 - 06:16 AM

Seed,

If you can sing a melody, you have the potential to sing harmony. To bring that potential out, I recommend Cathy Fink and Marcy Marxer's tape package called "Learn to Sing Harmony."

It is a booklet plus a series of cassette tapes. They do some explanation of what harmony is and then do many examples. They offer opportunities for you to sing along with a part and then to sing it yourself with the melody. They have help from Robin and Linda Williams. They also provide at least two ranges per song. The songs were all familiar to me, all traditional folk songs.

The package is available from Homespun Tapes. The telephone number there is 1-800-33-TAPES. I have found the package well worth the $37.50. It increased my confidence in harmony singing immensely.

Roger in Baltimore