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BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government
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Subject: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: dianavan Date: 24 Sep 05 - 12:13 PM Cheney's position as vice-president of the U.S. is a conflict of interest! Not only does Halliburton and Cheney benefit from no-bid contracts in New Orleans and Iraq, it is also allowed to supply weapons and services to terrorist sponsored states including Iran. When will the citizens of the U.S. rise up against this tyranny? It is in Cheney's interest to create war, destroy nations and get paid to reconstruct those same nations. What could be more obvious? Its been two years now since this has been common knowledge. This is not a conspiracy theory, it is fact. When will the people of the U.S. demand a change? Where are the politicians with integrity? Democrats and Republicans alike have sanctioned this abuse of power. Its time for a new political party but with the voting rigged, how does an honest politician have a chance? Any answers? From Halliburton Watch: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Ebbie Date: 24 Sep 05 - 12:28 PM That is really old information, dianavan. Could you link to something more recent? I know you used to be 'American' and, as they say, there is no one more strident and strict and self righteous than a recent convert, but my bristles rise in response to some of your implications. Just what do you expect Americans to do? You are aware of our political system so you know that for any actual change we have to wait for the next election. If you are speaking instead to the uncommitted or to the BushShits, the Mudcat is not the ideal vehicle. By and large you are railing at the choir. Perhaps you'd like to take out newspaper ads in the US and help wake up the people who still maintain their allegiance to Bush and Cheney and their cohorts? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Ron Davies Date: 24 Sep 05 - 12:32 PM "not a conspiracy theory"--if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Sorcha Date: 24 Sep 05 - 05:05 PM Well, doh..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Donuel Date: 24 Sep 05 - 05:11 PM Poster I made for Halliburton investment sales... http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/halliburt.jpg Hey their stock has doubled. and so have US casualties. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Don Firth Date: 24 Sep 05 - 06:39 PM As my drinking uncle used to tell me, "It's true that you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, but if you break a lot of eggs, it doesn't always result in an omelet." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 24 Sep 05 - 07:55 PM Not all attempts at an omette are edible either... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 24 Sep 05 - 08:03 PM or even omLettes, either... I wonder what an omette is... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Bobert Date: 24 Sep 05 - 08:31 PM Well, yeah, d, they kinda do... See, they are perfectly content sharin' the governemnt with other corporation so long as it doesn't cost them any real money... As to the question of when the American people will have had enough? This is way more difficult to answer because on the following: 1. The elections in the US are totally corrupt... Not only can't they run an election that is fair but even if they did, some 85 % of all districts have been so gernmandered that it wouldn't matter... 2. The corpoartions own the media and so that Jeffersonian idea that democracy depends on an infgormed electorate goes right out the window... 3. The "Soutern Strategy" is so successfull that it nowe works in the midwest as well... Whereever you have ignorant people all you have to do is throw out a few "Do you want beaucrats in yer pockets" 'er "Do you want liberals killin' yer babies" and enough of these ingorant folks will show to the polls to get yet another Corporate owned Rebub. elected... and 4. The American people are, deep down inside, very afarid... They are bombarded with stuff that is intended to make them so... Look at the news... Half of it is about stuff that keeps folks afraid... This is the best climate for the corporations to beat down the working class... The corporate CEO's ain't afraid but they well understand that if they keep the wiorking class afraid that the working class will work for less money, will not ask for national health care, etc. etc... and lastly... 5. The American people are in debt up to their necks. Rather than the rich using the all that dough to build factories and infastruncture to insure American jobs they threw it all into investments which ended up financing the houses that Americans are buying??? Yeah, this has kept the economy (falsely) looking good on paper but there is an end in sight and when lots of these folks find that the jobs they have are ditrectly or indirectly being financed by the loose credit in the housing industry... discover, ahhh, that folks ain't buyin' homes bno more... When this happens this economy will come down like a house of cards and expose the tax cuts fir waht they were... Just another redistribution of even more waelth (thru interest paid by the workin' class for these homes) upwards and away from a working class that may never ever get to retire... So, how will it change??? I'm not too sure... I reckon it will change the way that every empire that has ever existed changed... It will implode from the greed of it's moneyed class and its leaders... BObert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: dianavan Date: 24 Sep 05 - 09:43 PM Like I said, ebbie, "Its been two years now since this has been common knowledge." I never claimed it was recent news. I also mentioned that, "Democrats and Republicans alike have sanctioned this abuse of power," so I don't know how an election will solve the problem especially when the voting is rigged. Although I am extremely frustrated by the lack of action on the part of the U.S. citizenry, my hope is that the U.S. will not implode, as Bobert has said but I fear that he may be correct. Ron - When I re-read my post, I must agree that it is in fact a conspiracy. However it is not theory, it is all out there in black and white. It is fact. Whats holding up the conflict of interest investigation? Why hasn't Halliburton been indicted for fraudulently billing the U.S. govt. for goods and services in Iraq? Why are the poor of India and the Phillipines doing the dirty work in Iraq for mere pennies? Why do Americans sit by and idly watch the corruption and greed of their administration and their cronies? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 24 Sep 05 - 09:51 PM This opinion piece is pretty informative. Bear in mind that it was written five years ago - before the 2000 election and well before the invasion of Iraq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: dianavan Date: 24 Sep 05 - 10:18 PM ..and nothing has changed for the better. How do they get away with it? What a frustrating situation. So much for thoughts of a peaceful revolution! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Bobert Date: 24 Sep 05 - 10:23 PM Why do you think JFK got the bump??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: katlaughing Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:06 PM Why do Americans sit by and idly watch the corruption and greed of their administration and their cronies? Watched any news coverage of the March on Washington, today, dianavan? Here are the first few paragraphs: War Protest Generates Strong Turnout By Ryan G. Murphy, Emma Vaughn and David Pierson, Times Staff Writer Capping a summer of rising discontent with the war in Iraq, tens of thousands of protesters marched through cities across the nation Saturday to demand the immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces. Crowds shrugged off chilly rains and breakdowns in public transportation to greet Cindy Sheehan and her traveling anti-war vigil in Washington, D.C. In Los Angeles, actors and politicians led a snaking procession of protesters through downtown. And in San Diego, war veterans were among the thousands who gathered at a peaceful rally at a park. Many of the marchers said the events represented a growing momentum of discontent with the war and the Bush administration -- leading to the rise of Sheehan's movement. As you can see, there are more actions planned: The daylong march and rally was the first of three days of events here that is expected to culminate Monday with protesters flooding Congressional offices to demand an immediate and complete troop withdrawal, a position that few representatives on either side of the aisle have embraced. And, there would have been more there: Thousands of additional protesters were stranded in New York and other East Coast cities when 13 Amtrak commuter trains either were delayed or canceled because of an early morning electrical outage. As if we needed more reasons to get these bastards out, Halliburton and Cheney's other cohorts have received the first NO-BID-contracts for the Gulf Coast: ...Halliburton, Vice-President Cheney's former firm and major beneficiary in Iraq, has been tapped to clean up the Navy bases along the Gulf coast (at a cost of $29.8 million). Shaw earned a $100 million from the Corps of Engineers to rebuild homes (Bechtel, another major player, has been called in to build homes). These are all no-bid contracts. I am proud of each and every one of the Americans who got out there, today, and protested this administration's stupidity. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Bobert Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:13 PM Yeah, kat, and look at what it got them.... A hundred Bushite brownshirts got as much media time on FoxNews tonight as did the 10,000 plus aint-war folks??? Somethin' serously wrong with the way the corpoprate owned media reports the news.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Donuel Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:16 PM I just viewed the latest Halliburton commercial that features 3 employees who exclaim how proud they are of Halliburton. Without them The Army would still have their own KP duty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: dianavan Date: 25 Sep 05 - 02:43 AM I did read about the protests, Kat. The best slogans (I thought) were 'Make Levees, Not War' and ' Proud of my soldier, ashamed of the war'. I also heard that the anti-war movement was starting a million dollar ad campaign on t.v. All up and down the coast, friends have been calling to tell me how angry U.S. citizens are. Katrina seems to have been the 'straw that broke the camels back'. Some Homeland Security! I hope that the movement has begun and will not die down until Bush and Blair wake up. I'm not holding my breath, however. It seems to me that the corruption has gone on for so long that it has become an acceptable part of government. They may bring the troops home from Iraq but there will be another war and another after that. Thats how these assholes make their living. Cheney wants to control the worldwide distribution of energy. He does this for power and for the riches it brings him. If leaders do not co-operate, he finds an excuse to make war. It has nothing to do with what is 'morally' right. We seem to live in world without ethics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 25 Sep 05 - 05:14 AM Isn't there some way of declaring 'no-bid' contracts corrupt and unconstitutional? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: kendall Date: 25 Sep 05 - 08:04 AM What can we do? How about vote against every incumbent? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 25 Sep 05 - 08:23 AM ... for every non-major party candidate. Elect enough of them and they will be the majority. Unfortunately both side of the Party Machines cooperated to convince everybody not to vote for people like Perot, etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 25 Sep 05 - 09:27 AM Isn't there some way of declaring 'no-bid' contracts corrupt and unconstitutional? On the federal level, no. Most states provide some sort of referendum process so that voters can directly instigate the lawmaking process. No legislator is ever going to vote to hurt a major campaign contributor, but the referendum process gives us a way of circumventing special interests. Some of the referendums passed by California voters would have had no chance of passage if presented as bills in the state legislature. There's really no national referendum process. We can complain to our elected representatives, but who are they going to listen to? A handful of voters or the guys who paid for their election campaigns? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 25 Sep 05 - 07:48 PM Which is why the system IS corrupt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Peace Date: 25 Sep 05 - 10:28 PM Hey, my friend has a business. He wants more cash. I give him/her the job. What's to talk about? You think I give a rat's ass about taking care of taxpayers' money? This is GOVERNMENT. Get a grip. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Peace Date: 25 Sep 05 - 10:29 PM That is NOT corrupton. THAT is business. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Peace Date: 25 Sep 05 - 10:32 PM Read all about it! Nothin' corrupt in there, right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Peace Date: 25 Sep 05 - 11:11 PM "Halliburton owns the U.S. government" I don't think so; however, it may hold the mortgage on the USA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 26 Sep 05 - 04:51 AM Surely the point about no bid contracts is that they give the contractor free reign to set his own prices, a licence to print money. In a commercial context, this would be vigorously opposed as detrimental to the interests of shareholders. Where government is concerned, the shareholders are taxpayers, who are getting less bang for their bucks. At best this is immoral, at worst, malfeasance, and those responsible should find themselves looking for a new job, as they undoubtedly would in said commercial context. When one of the decision makers has financial links with the contractor, corruption is a generous description of the process. $200,000 in deferred pay, plus in all probability a guaranteed senior position with the contractor when his political career ends makes Cheney a bigger crook than our own late unlamented Robert Maxwell, and, by association Bush is tarred with the same brush. Bush/Cheney are selling the American people short to line their own bank accounts, and I find it hard to believe that there is no provision in US law to deal with them as other criminals are dealt with. Don T. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 26 Sep 05 - 07:01 AM QUOTE "Halliburton owns the U.S. government" I don't think so; however, it may hold the mortgage on the USA. UNQUOTE China owns 46% of it. Seen any changes in US policy towards China recently? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Bunnahabhain Date: 26 Sep 05 - 08:45 AM Wouldn't there also be howls of protest if there had been a lengthy bidding process before any contract for the rebuilding of the Gulf coast were signed? I'm not saying they're a good idea, just that it's a bad situation, so there may be no good answers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: GUEST,rarelamb Date: 26 Sep 05 - 11:17 AM Let's go through a simple exercise: Hali stock goes up. Does Cheney make money? No. Hali stock goes down. Does Cheney make money? No. Hali has record profits. Does Cheney make money? No. Hali goes bankrupt. Does Cheney make money? No. He has deferred compensation that is insured. Note Deferred. In case some of our slower people do not understand, deferred means that he has already earned this income. It is insured. His income will not change no matter what happens to Hali. Now if he can not benefit in any form, how is there a conflict? Apparently it's not just things that are disproved weeks ago but instead years ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Peace Date: 26 Sep 05 - 01:48 PM Gee. I wonder if Cheney will have a wonderful high-paying job waiting for him when he is unemployed after the 2008 election? I wonder who will hire him? I wonder. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: GUEST,rarelamb Date: 26 Sep 05 - 02:03 PM LOL, Guilty for have a conflict of interest only provable 3 years in the future, if he takes a job with Haliburton. Sometimes, I think you guys don't even try anymore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Peace Date: 26 Sep 05 - 02:09 PM Sometimes I think you never did. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: dianavan Date: 26 Sep 05 - 09:41 PM rarelamb - Read the link in the first post. "...unexercised stock options and deferred salary "are among those benefits described by the Office of Government Ethics as 'retained ties' or 'linkages' to one's former employer. Lautenberg said the report makes clear that Cheney does still have financial ties to Halliburton." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: GUEST,rarelamb Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:11 PM He does have financial links but he does not have a conflict of interests. Reread my post. It doesn't matter what happens to Hali, Cheney's financial position does NOT change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Peace Date: 27 Sep 05 - 01:16 PM I have a bridge you might be interested in purchasing, rarelamb. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: GUEST Date: 27 Sep 05 - 03:06 PM We have been wondering who the fool was that bought that bridge to begin with. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: katlaughing Date: 27 Sep 05 - 03:09 PM Hard to believe any one could be so naive these days. The way I understand it, "deferred" means Cheney is guaranteed that amount, at least, when he is no longer in office. And, of course, he will have a high paying position with Haliburton or one of the other taxpayer-rapers whenever he wants it, after getting out of office. Mr. Cheney takes care of his own very well. (It's hard for me to believe the same high school which my brother and sister graduated from, also produced such a despicable person as Cheney.) kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Don Firth Date: 27 Sep 05 - 03:59 PM Rarelamb, read a dictionary sometime. Here, let me help you: From the Merriam-Webster on-line dictionary:What this means, rarelamb, is that Vice President Cheney does not get the profit right now, but he does get it when he is no longer Vice President. It is held in trust for him until he resumes his status as a private citizen, and if the profit increases during the time he is Vice President, he also receives the increase. This is clearly a conflict of interest. There is no way anybody can whitewash this. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: GUEST,rarelamb Date: 28 Sep 05 - 10:37 AM Do some research " In Cheney's case, he signed a Halliburton form in December of 1998 choosing to have 50% of his salary for the next year, and 90% of any bonus money for that year, spread out over five years Legally, Halliburton can't increase or reduce the amount of the deferred compensation no matter what Cheney does as vice president. So Cheney's deferred payments from Halliburton wouldn't increase no matter how much money the company makes, or how many government contracts it receives." He gets paid no matter what happens. He is getting paid NOW. Please note the last sentence. I'de rather be naive and right than savvy and wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: pdq Date: 28 Sep 05 - 11:54 AM Dear Don Firth, If you were in charge of provisioning a national administration with leaders, where would you look? The obvious choices are bureaucrats, lawyers, academics, professional politicians and business people. Since academics are from the "those who can, do - those who can't teach" arena, I would suggest that a few business executives, who are trained as leaders, would be an important part of the Firth Administration. Some lawyers are needed and bureaucrats are inevitable, but it is professional politicians who have never held private sector jobs in their lives, who are destroying our government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: katlaughing Date: 28 Sep 05 - 01:18 PM Other research (My emphasis)When confronted with the proof of his ongoing financial ties with Halliburton, Cheney responded by claiming his deferred salary and stock options are not actually a "financial interest" as defined by federal ethics standards and therefore not a conflict of interest. This prompted the Congressional Research Service to issue a report which confirmed Cheney's ongoing financial interest in Halliburton "is considered among the 'ties' retained in or 'linkages to former employers' that may 'represent a continuing financial interest' in those employers which makes them potential conflicts of interest." Or, put more plainly: CBS/AP) A report by the Congressional Research Service undermines Vice President Dick Cheney's denial of a continuing relationship with Halliburton Co., the energy company he once led, Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Thursday. The report says a public official's unexercised stock options and deferred salary fall within the definition of "retained ties" to his former company. As of two years ago, pre-Katrina no-bid contracts, THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS PAID TO HALLIBURTON TO $2.25 BILLION – OF WHICH $1.25 BILLION IS FROM THE NO-BID, EXCLUSIVE CONTRACT. From: Click here More current news includes: In May, despite concerns by the Army's own auditors about billing practices, the firm received a $72.2 million performance bonuses for its work in Iraq. The bonus was the largest ever received by the firm. Halliburton has billed the government more than $10.5 billion to date under a contract to provide aid for the military in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. There are more reports of abuses which are costing the taxpayers so much at click here Looks as though this book would be a good place to do some research, too: click here. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: GUEST,rarelamb Date: 28 Sep 05 - 01:45 PM Are you kidding? This is a joke right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: dianavan Date: 29 Sep 05 - 02:38 AM Yeah, rarelamb, The jokes on you if you don't understand 'conflict of interest' but somehow I think you really do understand. Its just that ethics mean nothing to you. One more time for your reading pleasure... "CBS/AP) A report by the Congressional Research Service undermines Vice President Dick Cheney's denial of a continuing relationship with Halliburton Co., the energy company he once led, Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Thursday. The report says a public official's unexercised stock options and deferred salary fall within the definition of "retained ties" to his former company" Or maybe you are saying that although he 'retains ties' those ties do not constitute a conflict of interest. In that case look at the number of no-bid contracts Halliburton has received since Cheney was in office. Look at the increase in share price. Not only that, he's manipulating the price of energy in North America by creating highs and lows so that his buddies can clean up on the market. He's a slimball, rarelamb, but I guess it takes one to know one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Teribus Date: 29 Sep 05 - 04:12 AM When all this kicked off just in March 2003, and was discussed previously the no-bid contract thing was explained. Halliburton won a competitive bid contract to win a "Frame Agreement" Contract to provide support services to the US Government in 1998. It was under the terms of that contract that the initial contracts in Iraq were placed. The practice is quite common, logical and perfectly legal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: dianavan Date: 29 Sep 05 - 04:20 AM What about subsequent contracts? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Teribus Date: 29 Sep 05 - 05:32 AM Frame agreement contracts are awarded for a set period of time and may have extensions. For example the company I work for is a frame agreement contractor for a number of companies, the term of the contract is 5 years, with yearly options to extent for periods of 12 months up to a maximum of five years after wich the frame agreement contract is put out for competitive tender. Now if awarded work under the frame agreement, the contract for that work may containt the customers right to extend the work through Company Option. So the situation could arise where the frame agreement contract may have expired but the contractor performing the work is still engaged under options applicable to a specific job. This is cost efficient and logical as it beneficial to both parties. It permits rapid response should emergency intervention be required, it reduces our clients costs and provides us with the long term stability to invest in new equipment and carry out necessary research and development. Halliburton won a frame agreement contract via a competitive tender process in 1998, if similar to what is described above, then all work within the scope of that frame agreement could automatically be awarded to Halliburton up until 2008. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: GUEST,rarelamb Date: 29 Sep 05 - 10:09 AM Lol, feel free to actually read my link. There is no conflict of interest as Cheney does not benefit one iota whether Hali does well or not. No amount wishing or halucinating will change that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 29 Sep 05 - 11:22 AM It has been stated that Cheney holds share options in Haliburton, in addition to his deferred salary. If the price of their shares rises, as seems certain, pray tell me, how will he not benefit? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Halliburton owns the U.S. government From: GUEST,rarelamb Date: 29 Sep 05 - 11:26 AM PUHLEEEEEEZE read the link. (I think this may be one of the reasons people post the whole wad instead of using links) Those options are in a trust. All procedes goto charities. He does NOT benefit! |
