BS: Painted Desert questions

Subject: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 11:59 AM

Well, here comes a dream!

When I was 10 years old, I had a slide-viewer called a Viewmaster and some slides of the Painted Desert. At that time, going to the Painted Desert was a possibility as remote was going to the moon. Also at the time, I was embroidering a dresser scarf which showed a mustang galloping against a background of painted cliffs, and to me the colorful desert landscape was mythical - something that only occurs in art.

One day, a couple years ago, when my husband was proposing another exhausting trek to a European capitol, it occurred to me that now I was in a position to fulfil that long-lost dream and go to the Painted Desert.

Trouble is, there are two of them. There is painted desert in Petrified Forest National Park, and my atlas has the unofficial lettering PAINTED DESERT crossing Arizona Highway 89 near Highway 64.

Does anybody who has been there have any recommendations as to which area to visit? We are going in April, and we like nature and bird-watching.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Amos
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:16 PM

I dunno which is the official or mythical one, but exploring Artizon's hinterland is a wonderful thing. My sister-in-law has spent a number of years as a Parks ranger in those areas...I'll see what she thinks.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: MMario
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:19 PM

many many years ago we visited the "painted desert" that was right by the Petrified Forest - but we drove along a landscape that was wonderfully variagated for most of that day....

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Amos
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:19 PM

"Painted Desert
This ever-changing landscape offers spectacular views that only Mother Nature can create.

The Painted Desert covers an area of 93,533 acres that stretches southeast from the Grand Canyon to the Petrified Forest National Park. The desert derives it's name from the multi-hued badlands of the Chinle Formation rocks that cover the park.

This scenic desert is covered by a very soft layer of earth consisting mainly of mud, sandstone and volcanic ash. Various combinations of minerals and decayed plant and animal matter contribute to the various colors seen through the park.

As the Painted Desert erodes from mineralized water flows and mineral deposits, the fossilized artifacts from the Triassic Era (220 million years ago) have become exposed, most notably the remains of an ancient conifer forest.

Today the park is still continually changing as water and wind erode the area and shift the sediment causing lower layers of fossil and petrified wood to surface.

A 10 mile paved road runs throughout the park providing quite a few pull off points with plaques explaining the geology and coloration within the park.

Learn all about the Painted desert at the museum located inside the Park which is very educational. There is plenty to look at and experience."


From this page

A

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: GUEST,Sharon G
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:22 PM

Hi- I'm from Arizona, though I've spent relatively little time in that part of the state.

Northern Arizona can still be pretty cool in early April- when do you plan your trip? If you want to see wildflowers, birds etc I would suggest coming in late April.


Here is some info about Petrified Forest:
http://www.americansouthwest.net/arizona/petrified_forest/national_park.html

Actually, the main part of that site had great links to many other interesting areas to visit- so you might want to check this out:

http://www.americansouthwest.net/arizona/index.shtml

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Amos
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:24 PM

What is the Painted Desert?

The Painted Desert is an expanse of badland hills, flat-topped mesas and buttes. It is an arid land, sparsely vegetated and heavily eroded. The name Painted Desert refers to the rainbow of colorful sedimentary layers exposed in the austere landscape. It is represented by outcroppings of the Late Triassic Period Chinle Formation.

Where is the Painted Desert?

The Painted Desert is a narrow, crescent shaped arc, about 160 miles long which begins about 30 miles north of Cameron near Grand Canyon, and swings southeast just beyond Petrified Forest National Park. This arc varies in width from 10 miles wide in the Cameron area to about 35 miles wide at Petrified Forest. The Little Colorado River cradles the southern edge and the tableland of Hopi Mesas and buttes make up the northern boundary.

What Caused the Colors?

The landforms of the Painted Desert have been described as a multicolored layer cake. The variety of hues in the sandstone and mudstone layers of the Chinle Formation is the result of the varying mineral content in the sediments and the rate at which the sediments were laid down. When sediments are deposited slowly, oxides of iron and (hematite) aluminum become concentrated in the soil. These concentrations create the red, orange, and pink colors you see at the north end of the park. During a rapid sediment buildup such as a flooding event, oxygen is removed from the soil forming the blue, gray, and lavender layers. You will see these colors as you travel through the southern portion of the park.

Erosion

Wind and rain, sedimentary composition of the rocks and the lack of protective vegetative, all contribute to rapid erosion of the Chinle Formation. Torrential rains of the Arizona monsoon hasten the erosion of the soft mudstone by cutting deep, narrow gullies into the steep slopes of the hills and the soft, rounded hilltops seem to melt as the soil is washed from the tops. As you drive through the park, you will notice that some of the clay hills have a layer of resistant sandstone, conglomerate or basalt on the top. These hills erode at a substantially decreased rate. Similarly, where well-developed vegetation grows, erosion is slowed. Erosion studies indicate that steep slopes may loose as much as 1/4 inch of soil a year. That small amount may seem insignificant, but geologically it is very rapid; each century one to two feet of surface material erodes away.

From http://scienceviews.com/parks/painteddesert.html.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:32 PM

Should you find yourself in Eastern Oregon- in the Mitchell, John Day river area- there are 'Painted Hills'. Quite striking. If you like miles and miles of nature in solitude, it's a good place to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:36 PM

I grew up in Arizona and visited the Painted Desert many times. There is a large area on both the Navajo and the Hopi indian reservations which is loosely called "The Painted Desert". I would suggest planning for several days and visiting the Petrified Forest. Leave from Flagstaff, drive to Tuba City then across to Chinle and come back to Flagstaff by way of Interstate 10. If you have time, be sure and visit Oak Creek Canyon, Sedona and Montezuma's Castle south of Flagstaff also. Beautiful sights and unique scenery. Nice people there too. Have fun.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Allan C.
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:39 PM

My experience was similar to MMario's. I saw lots of roadway that cut through moderately colorful areas. I think it is fair to tell you that that slide, (and I think I must have had the same one,) must have been color enhanced - or at least shot with filters. The colors are generallyh much more subdued than those shown in many photos. However, it is important to note that a lot depends on how much sunlight is available. I would imagine that early morning and just before sunset would be the best times to see the colors - bright daylight being the least desirable.

BTW, I remember being greatly disappointed by the Petrified Forest. I don't know exactly what I was expecting, but it just didn't interest me very much. I saw all I needed to see in about five minutes. After all, just how many prone stone tree trunks does one really need to see?

The roadside flowers were far more interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:46 PM

That is a beautiful region of the country.   Getting to and from and Painted Desert is also very memorable. I've driven through the desert a couple of times and it is breathtaking.   The Painted Desert just adds another spectacular dimension. I have heard that it is really beautiful at sunrise or sunset but I was not able to make satisfactory arrangements with the sun when I was in the area.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: MMario
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:52 PM

PRobably because you didn't breakfast on "Old Massachusetts" - I don't know if it possible now - but there was a petrified tree we were allowed to climb on - labeled "Old Massachusetts" for some reason I don't remember - but it had a broken section we immediatelly dubbed "Cape Cod" - and we had a picnic breakfast on the trunk.

The day we "did" the Petrified forest we also visited Meteor Crater and ended up at Grand Canyon National Park (in time to catch an evening lecture and watch the Echo satellite). sometime during that day we also visited another national park where we got to play with a bat. It was a busy day - and my parents did it with 8.25 kids in the car and towing a 24 foot travel trailer.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 01:07 PM

The National Parks in any given area are set aside to preserve large samples of the various landscapes, but their boundaries are political, not geographical. There's lots of petrified wood and painted desert outside of those two national parks. As has been demonstrated by links and suggested by experienced travelers, there are lots of areas around Northern Arizona where you can enter portions of the painted desert.

There are good annotated maps and guidebooks to the region, and I would suggest finding one or two of those, then picking up a copy of Historical Atlas of Arizona by Henry Walker and Don Bukin. My copy was printed in 1979, I see that it was revised and reprinted in 1986. A search on Bufkin at Amazon shows a couple of books of his you might be interested in.

Usually the national parks in any given area have excellent books for sale that cover various aspects of the region, so if you want to wait, you could pick these up when you get there. You might want to read ahead (the Atlas is a quick read) so when you get there you can make informed choices on destinations, because there is certainly far more landscape than one vacation can cover!

During my park ranger career one place I worked was in southern Arizona's Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. It's an entirely different geographical region, though it is also desert. I've been through Painted Desert and Petrified Forest several times. It's a great area.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 02:01 PM

I visited the Park 'proper'. I don't remember birds but I remember a whole lotta nature. I rode my motorcycle through there thirty years ago. It was lovely. The rangers promised to watch my bike and I signed out for hiking into the region for a night. I only had a flexible Vietnam style 'bag' canteen which could carry a liter no more, so I made myself down a liter of water beyond my thirst being quenched. Hiked in in the afternoon, enjoyed the petrified bits of wood which I left alone, and the myriads of small cacti and succulents which struggled and throve. There was some clambering, and mostly hiking into a flat-formed valley with some dry washes, which term also applies to the subtle yet quietly dramatic coloration of the hills. I climbed a hill and watched the sun go down. I thought I was alone and the experience was deeply spiritual and personal. In fact, I was to meet up with a couple who were camping in the valley not far from me. They told me they had got a photo of me silhouetted against the setting sun with my arms outstretched. Sounded too good to be true, and though we traded addresses I was never to see it.

That part of the country is incredibly beautiful and not overcrowded. Research the routes a bit, but don't overplan your trip. Just go, spend time there, and may you have good weather. If you're up to some hiking that will magnify the experience manifold.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 02:39 PM

The Painted Desert was named by the Spaniards, "el pintado desierto," and appears in their chronicles of marching to the land of the Hopituh (Hopi).
James Wharton James described it eloquently and colorfully in his books, notably "Indians of the Painted Desert Region," published in 1903. His books, and the travel booklets of the railroads, caught the imagination of the Great American Tourist and inspired them to explore the area and the peoples (Navahoes, Hopis, Wallapais and Havasupais, as James spelled them) of this great region.

From his words:
"It is a desert, surely, yet throughout its entire width flows a monster river; a fiendish, evil-souled river; a thievish, murderous river; a giant vampire, sucking the life-blood from thousands of square miles of territory...."
"It is a desert, surely, yet planted in its dreary wastes are verdant-clad mountains, on whose summits winter's snows fall and accumulate, and in whose bosoms springs of life are harbored.
"It is desert, surely, yet it is fringed here and there with dense forests, and in the very heart of its direst desolation threads of silvery streams lined with greenish verdure seem to give the lie to the name.
"It is desert, barren, inhospitable, dangerous, yet thousands of people make it their chosen home. Over its surface roam the Bedouins of the United States, fearless horsemen.... Down in the deep canyon waterways of the desert streams dwell other peoples whose life is as strange, weird, wild, and fascinating as that of any people on earth." [some of this would be amusing to the natives of the area whose mode of transportation is now the pick-up truck, but who keep a few horses as pets or to use in searching out their cattle and sheep in the rockier, more elevated portions of their nations].

James tried to answer the question, "What are the boundaries of the Painted Desert?"
"I am free to confess I do not know, nor do I think any one else does. The Spaniards never attempted to bound it, and no one since has ever had the temerity to do so." ---
" The 'conditions' of color and barrenness that first suggested the name exist over a large area; you will find them in the plateaus of southern Utah and the wild wastes of southern Nevada; they exist in much of New Mexico and southwestern Colorado. In Arizona if you sweep around north, west, south and east, they are there.---"

Abstracted from another of his introductory paragraphs;
"Scenic! It is unrivaled for uniqueness, contrasts, variety, grandeur, desolateness and majesty. Geologic! The student may here find in a few months what a lifetime elsewhere cannot reveal.
Artistic! The artist will find it his rapture and his despair.
Archaeologic! Ruins everywhere, cavate, cliff and pueblo .... Ethnologic! Hopi, Wallapai, Havasupai, Navajo, Apache and the rest; with mythologies as fascinating and complex as those of old Greece;...."
George Wharton James, 1903, "Indians of the Painted Desert Region," Little, Brown and Co. Several of his books are still in print, but this one is not.

Any one visit will be too short, any one part will not reveal the attractions of the others.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: pdq
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 03:32 PM

Alaska Mike is quite correct in recomending Chinle, that is the entrance to Canyon De Chelly, an amazing place and well worth adding to your itinerary. However, the interstate that takes you through Flagstaff is "I-40" not "I-10", the latter does not go north of Phoenix. I-40 is what remains of old Route 66.

With Meteor Crater to the west, Canyon De Chelly to the north and Petrified Forrest National Park to the east, Holbrook winds up the center of a wonderful adventure. You could go south into the high pine-covered mountains, but June or later would be better than April.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 04:42 PM

In Chinle, the Best Western Canyon de Chelly inn is located at the mouth of the canyon. Good rooms and the food very good (if on the menu, try the Arizona spring lamb). Parking area for motorhomes, and board for your horse.
If you want to see the canyon, half day to day trips may be arranged here, but if you want a guided jeep trip, arrange ahead of time on the internet.
The drive north, to Mexican Water, is a grerat scenic route.

When the Navajo finally got back to this area, after being herded to Ft. Stanton by that bigot, Kit Carson, and U. S. troops, one of the places that they restored their fields and orchards was Canyon de Chelly (more properly Canyon de Tschay, var. spellings). The soil at the bottom of the canyon holds water just below the surface throughout the year. The altitude is about 6000 feet, so the dry heat never seems oppressive.

Holbrook, as pdq recommends, is a prime center to explore the area, but it is about 100 miles from Chinle over State and Navajo Nation roads (roads not bad). Each of these areas requires a day for a quick look-see, but more is much better.

Window Rock (it does have a very photogenic natural bridge), on the eastern boundary of AZ, is a good place to start exploration of the eastern Navajo nation and some of the old trading posts, including the Hubbell Trading Post, 40 miles west, still run in the old way by the national parks, with reasonable prices for blankets, silver and other handcrafts.
The old Toadlena Trading Post had a display of very unusual pictorial weavings the last time I was there; the area is a center for Two Grey Hills weaving. Many of the best weavers, however, sell to the better dealers in Sedona, Santa Fe, and other centers; not depending on the casual tourist.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 04:53 PM

The old Toadlena post is about 40 miles north of Window Rock, on the NM side, and is best reached from 666, driving north from Gallup.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: freightdawg
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 06:53 PM

And since you mentioned watching for birds (and I assume other wildlife) and if you are going to make a vacation out of it, do yourself a huge favor and keep going northeast and into the Rocky Mountains of southern Colorado, Northern New Mexico. April might be a little early for some of the species (lot of snow on the ground until late May, early June), but there are some beautiful songbirds, migratory birds, and many different kinds of wildlife in the region.

I am in Albuquerque, in central NM, and if I can be of any assistance send me a pm. I love this part of the country and would like to help anyone who has not been here to see the best and avoid the rest.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 07:10 PM

You are in for SUCH a treat. When I was there it was the 80's, I was with some totally paranoid people who were sure the Indians were going to object to our being there and be mean to us, which I didn't think they would, and in fact they didn't, I've never seen the moon so big and so close, it was amazing, I think it will be one of the memories even Alzheimer's won't erase. Not that I have that yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 08:04 PM

Don't be afraid to talk to the Indians. If they don't want to talk, they won't, but most are polite and helpful and can add to your enjoyment. The last time I was in the Navajo area, a number were all dressed up for the rodeos, shows, parades, get-togethers and dances that take place in August. I got some good pictures and all it cost was making extra prints, and postage to send back copies to their addresses. There are some who refuse, mostly from the pueblos. Those who are demonstrating crafts or selling in shops or shows appreciate you dropping a bill or two into the basket.

April can be cold in the high desert, and a coat is needed, as freightdawg points out. Freezing at night. Layering is a good idea. Unfortunately, it is too early for flowers and best birding.

Lows in Chinle in April are around 35 F, highs around 70 F. In Holbrook, lows the same, highs around 75 F. Flagstaff highs 58 F, lows 27 F., Gallup NM, high 64 F, low 28 F.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: open mike
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 10:31 PM

Read some Tony Hillerman www.tonyhillermanbooks.com/
to get immersed in the desert culture
or Edward Abbey's Desert Solitaire before you go there!
http://www.abbeyweb.net/

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 11:05 PM

IF you are physically intack (it seems that 30% of the current memeber MC'ers have a hard time with health issues)....then take an entire day to also WALK/Hike/explore Zion and Bryce. The painted desert you see by automobile - the awsome majesty of their neighbors is best appriciated from below - (although viewed from their heights it lets you imagine how horrific it would be to lose a cow down there.)

You cannot plan it - but bring a tripod - set to the smallest appeture - and shoot after a rainstorm.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 10:49 AM

Thanks for the info, everyone. I am going to save all this.

It seems that April is too early for the trip. I better look in rescheduling. It also sounds like the entire NE quadrant of Arizona is worth exploring.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 11:43 AM

And New Mexico NW and Utah S!
August is the biggest tourist month. I would suggest June.
Enjoy!

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Janie
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:29 PM

Leeneia, Can I stow away on the luggage rack?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 02:57 PM

Thanks, Q. June sounds better than my original plan. Also, if we go in June, we won't miss the beauty and liveliness of spring at home.

Janie - sounds like you are developing wanderlust too.

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 03:51 PM

Be sure to read Chapter 5 of Abbey's Desert Solitaire. It gives a good Ranger's-eye-view of what it feels like to be descended upon by visitors (though he didn't face near the number of visitors that modern rangers do). Ask questions other than "where's the bathroom" and "where is the coke machine" if you can. They'll particularly appreciate knowing you've done your homework and want clarification or recommendations of how to really enjoy their park.

These days in Indian Country you'll often see signs telling you if residents don't want you to photograph in their community, or stating the restrictions. DON'T assume that if there is no sign, it is okay. Resist the urge to travel down a twisting driveway to visit a lone hogan. Outsiders are not entitled to see what's around the corner of a rutted road that leaves the pavement, or in any way trespassing. It's just as if you wouldn't want someone walking in your yard or front door and photographing you.

If you want someplace to visit in the early part of the year, Southern Arizona is the place. By May the Sonoran desert is already too hot for most visitors, but February through April are delightful. Watch to see if they get good rains this fall, that determines how spectacular the flower displays will be next spring.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: Joybell
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 06:48 PM

leeneia, we've just got back from there. Apart from visiting Mudcat friends it was one of the highlights of our trip. Nearly drove over the edge in amazment. We went in April too and the we beat the tourist crowd nicely. We've been to Monument Valley and many other places around it but the Painted desert was our very favourite place.
If possible a visit to El Morro which is near the Painted desert is a wonderful experience too. Have a lovely time. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Painted Desert questions
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 02:56 PM

This site has a chart of temperatures by month

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/vacationplanner/vacationclimatology/monthly/USAZ0245

In Tuba City, the average April high is 68, and the average May high is 78. June is 89. Late April is looking better and better. May looks good too, but May is so beautiful at home, I hate to miss it.

Re Tony Hillerman's books: I used to read them all. Then one day I was reading one, and I knew from the sound of the villain's name that he was going to be the villain. (I was right.) I decided that Hillerman was getting too predictable for me.

As for southern Arizona, I have already been there a few times. NE AZ will be new ground. Also, I've never embroidered anything from SE Arizona.