BS: My son is expelled from school forever

Subject: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 04:20 PM

Dean has gotten by on his good looks. Any mention of him seems to include a comment about his cuteness etc.
He has never displayed any overt violent tendencies before. Nor has he any innate problems with authority figures but they have one with him. He is mature beyond his years. In fact he initiated a conversation the other day about mortality and how he never wants to grow old. He went on to postulate that he would find it preferable to age backwards. This seemed rather profound for a young man who has just turned five years of age.

Yet he is now permanently expelled from school come Monday.
In my humble opinion he is a victim, a victim of computer error.
For his first 2 months of life we brought him to Pediatric Associates of Wheaton. We found that office so disorganized and confused that we changed pediatricians. Our current Pediatric office claims they do not have Dean's records for those 2 months.

We only have records of his last 14 immunization vaccine shots since he was 2 months old. The confused Pediatric Associate office said their computer hard drive crashed and they can not find any back up disks or hand written files for Dean. They seem to have used this excuse since last March. I can only assume that his records for those 2 months are lost forever.

The School nurse has expelled Dean for insufficient immunization records and her decision has been supported by the principle.
Resolution of the matter is in perpetual limbo. Perhaps a new Montgomery County resolution could be passed or amnesty is granted by the Governor but barring these unlikely events, Dean is never allowed to return to public school.


I suppose I can submit this post as a letter to our local Gazette. Who knows, this kind of zero tolerance intolerance is the kind of fluff piece that might even get national media attention.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: R. Padgett
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 04:33 PM

I dont think we have that sort of problem in the Uk thank god but of anyone knows any different??

Seems to me the US society have lost the plot and permanent expulsion can only lead to further litigation

What sort of society are you fostering in the US??

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Peace
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 04:33 PM

Call the school board immediately.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 04:39 PM

How the hell can you exclude a child for not having certain innoculations? If that were the case in the UK, our schools would be half empty!

I hope this gets sorted... I'd call your school board, the local press, anyone who can bring this shambolic system into the public eye. Were it in the UK, I'd suggest your local MP - would it be your local Congress member?

Good luck!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 04:44 PM

Within my experience, most computer "errors" occur because some nitwit—often a whole string of nitwits—don't take the necessary minute or so it requires to actually sit down at the computer and log in what they're supposed to log in. After I got married, it took me five tries to get my employer's financial department to make the necessary changes in my withholding tax and change the company health insurance coverage to include my wife. I finally had to go to the department manager. She made a couple of phone calls, raised hell and slid a brick under it, and half an hour later, it was fixed.

I don't know how you can resolve the particular problem you have right now, but I think that in the future, I would insist that the doctor, or whomever, give you a paper record, signed and notarized if need be, so you have proof in hand of what should be in the computer.

Both belt and suspenders may not be fashionable, but they do help keep you from falling on your face when, due to circumstances beyond your control, your pants unexpectedly wind up around your ankles.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 05:04 PM

Can't you just have him get the two months of shots again? If not, I'll bet you can get a good lawyer to take the case on contingency.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 05:14 PM

Of course I will will tell Dean that a computer problem is at fault. He understands that from his video games.

There is the fact that the school nurse has declared that Dean is a danger to himself and the entire school population based upon the rules and regulations regarding immunization records.

This nurse has previously complained/denied that my older son would request to use the school health office restroom during the time he was under doctor's care for a stomach problem. Her decision was overturned by the Principal that time.
She also called me to personally tend to Dean at school since it was discovered he had a skid mark in his underwear. (I kid you not)
I was told that they are not allowed to assist in changing underear which we had provided. They are not even allowed to look in underwear. How did they discover the skidmark then?

The problem may be the nurse as well as the direction society is going lately. Good grief, even sunscreen is considered a drug that can send a child home.

My wife says that one solution is to declare ourselves Johovah Witness', since they are excluded from the vaccine regulations.
I would rather declare myself Witness' of the Grand Wazoo of latter day frauds, but my wife still has a valid soultion.

He has had all his shots so I feel that saying we are a certain religious sect is counter productive to the truth of the situation...

but my wife still might have the most efficacious solution.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 05:47 PM

Jack: It depends how long and far the intolerence and "letter of the law" hard line continues. Afterall he is not officially expelled until tommorrow.

This may be a personal policy decision of showing parents who is boss. Last week I had the timerity to request that I observe Dean in class. I was told told they do not allow this due to the disruption it would cause. I was denied my request right up until I used the magic words "my wife asked me to". Then I was allowd under the Principal's escort to peek through the door of his class. It made me wonder if they can see no gender bigotry unless a woman is invloved. I suppose they are worried about estranged couples kidnapping children out of the classroom.

They should be as worried about the lead in their drinking fountains which they put up signs to warn about but do not fix.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:15 PM

Move across a state line. This is just ridiculous. I am not sure they can legally do this. But I'm not a lawyer....and 'my' lawyer is out of town...what state are you in??? Call the Atty Gen for the State...see the County prosecutor before you hire a lawyer. See the Supt of Schools

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:16 PM

He's expelled from further attendance at school and you consider it a problem? Christ! I only wish it had happened to me when I was five years old!!! And I am not kidding.

Have you considered home education, and how much more free an environment that would be for a young mind to grow up in? Again, I wish I had had that option. Have you considered alternative schools, like a Waldorf school perhaps? (I'm not sure if the same problem would come up there, but I doubt it.)

Sounds like a gift from God to me that a kid could be spared going through the lobotomy mill of public school in North America, which does everthing it can to stifle independent thought, subordinate human will to mass regimentation, and shape little future societal slaves for their lives of indentured servitude.

As for the frigging vaccinations, kids would probably be better off without most of them...in my opinion.

But, hey, I'm a radical. Better believe it.

People should be set free to make their own choices with regard to all these things. The social $ySStem pretends to "serve and protect", but all it really does is regiment, deny, and control. For the benefit of what? Money concerns. And not YOUR money concerns, my friend. And not mine either.

The AMA has got you and the schools and the whole damn society by the balls. What a miserable tragedy it all is.

You can plainly see who they think owns your child. Not you. No, sir. The $ySStem owns your child. Just step into line like good little fascists and obey orders...or you will be banished forever. That's a dictatorship, pure and simple. It's mind control.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:20 PM

Your insurance company ought to have a record of having paid for those shots. This should be ample proof that your son received them.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:36 PM

First:

I have a thought - won't your insurance carrier have a record of the immunizations if they paid the pediatrician for those services or reimursed you for them?



second - and totally trivial:

Jehovah's Witnesses do not forbid the use of vaccinations. In fact, they don't actually forbid or permit any one medical procduere regardless of what you read. They have reccomendations based on biblical interpretation. Splitting hairs I guess ..but there you have it. Vaccines are not an issue with them.

I realize you are being facetious, but - I have many friends, family and loved ones who are JWs and all the crap people say about them that is false gets tiresome. You would not likely ever find a Baptised JW agreeing to a whole blood tranfusion since they hold certain fundamental beliefs about specific blood products (not all blod products). However, that's a far cry from prohibition and again, it's not vaccines.


RE: vaccinations - there are certain Mennonite and Amish communities who have for generations had religious prohibitions against vaccination but that varies greatly from community to community. Some Rastaferian derived groups also have such prohibitions but for different reasons. (That might be what you were reaching for in trying to make your point)

The interesting thing about the Amish/Mennonite tradition of refusing childhood vaccines is that it makes them a valuable community to study in the controversey over Mercury Exposure and Autism. Some very interesting papers on the subject have been published.

BTW - My Mum lost my records TWICE and I had to be revaccinated as a result. I was refused admittance to college until I agreed to be revaccinated for 7 different things. Very annoying. The first time she lost the records in a house flood - that was in grade School. I'd like to think I am now Super-Immune to Measles, Mumps, Rubella,Chickenpox, Diptheria and the like - but immunity doesn't work that way, oh well.

Incidentally, unvaccinated children of these religious communities do not have the vaccination requirement waived. They must be home-schooled.

it was a good try though!

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:38 PM

A Parallel if not quite so serious situation currently affects some friends of mine here in the UK. Their daughter just accepted at Oxford Uni cannot produce evidence of MMR and other vaccinations, therefore before going up has to get all injections redone. Oh yes reason for no evidence = Computer cock up.


Sue everybody

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:41 PM

Suing everybody will make several lawyers very happy, and waste a whole bunch of your time and money, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:51 PM

From time to time I have used a Magical Incantation that seems to produce immediate results. Rehearse it carefully with a calm but firm voice and a very serious expression.

"Well, I guess I'm going to have to see what my attorney says about this."

Amazing the spirit of cooperation this can elicit.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:54 PM

Don, if you really want him in Pub school, then fight it.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:56 PM

Ah, yes...threatening legal action can be quite effective. By all means, do that, Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 07:06 PM

Well, it's not actually threatening legal action, it's just saying (more to yourself than to whoever you're talking to, but definitely in their earshot) that you'd like to see what you're attorney thinks. Often that's all it takes.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST,H
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 07:33 PM

Is this in the US? I am only knowledgeable with perhaps the rules and regs in 40% of the States and no where is there any consideration for immunization requirements in the first year of life. The schools could care less.

Is this a private school or is this a joke?

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST,H
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 07:35 PM

I also think I might know why he doesn't want to grow older. He has been reading the BS threads on Mudcat - not all, but obviously enough.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 07:52 PM

For sure. It would certainly have made me not want to grow older.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: jaze
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 07:56 PM

I was held out of Catholic school at age 6 because the nuns couldn't SEE my smallpox vaccination.

I think you have every right to with hold a portion of your state taxes that go for education if your child is being denied one.

You should indeed fight it AND make it public.

My son was expelled form school for one year for lighting a firecracker in the lunchroom. Incredibly stupid, I know. Some kids handed him one and said "here, light this" And he did and threw it on the floor and immediately stepped on it. They, who brought firecrackers to school, got two weeks suspension. My son was expelled for one year, meaning 365 days. This was in January. He couldn't go back in sept. Now he's saying he wants to quit and just get his GED. And I don't really blame him. No child left behind??
Safety needs to be tempered with common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 08:13 PM

No child left behind if they behave. Lighting a firecracker IN school?
Common sense needs to used.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 08:21 PM

I was expelled from school for life when I was 15, leaving age then was 16. It made me realise what life really was like when I got out there and had to find a job. I ended up studying at night class a few years later and went on to do my diploma. Never looked back had a great career. It was my wild years and it was youth. He will do fine, I think the school will see their mistake within days. Support him as I know you will, but don't let them wiggle out of it. Contact local press.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 08:23 PM

Hey, Donuel, count Dean on lucky kid... Now he won't have to go the D.C. public schools... That's great news!!!

Just put him in front of a pudder with a few tutorial programs and he'll prolly get his GED by, ohhhh, 12 years old and be outta college before most of the other now 5 year olds are in high school...

My son had a lot of problems in school as well. Between private schools and various public schools he was in 10 different schools from age 5 to 15... Then he quit, did some home schoolin, a few evenin' classes thru the puvluic schools and got his GED just before his 17th birthday....

Yer kid is smart.... Don't put him thru the school scene... Schools suck... All they do is bore bright kids while babysittin' the not-so-bright's and not-so-motivated's...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 08:33 PM

Odd. I have made 2 posts to this thread which disappeared into thin air...

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 08:34 PM

And Bobert is right. He's better off not IN the public schools. Way better off.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 08:46 PM

Ahhh, LH, but I hate to break it to ya but since it has come out that you account for 70% of all Mudcat postings that the powers-at-be have put a filter on you... But, hey, don't feel all discriminated against 'cause the filter just takes every other post... It ain't smart 'nuff to figure out which posts are which...l Purely a nummers game...

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 08:57 PM

Donuel

do you or your wife keep a diary? or a notebook in the kitchen or by the phone? if you have your own record (diary is accepted in court) of the date and times your son had his vaccinations, then any lawyer will back you up in court.

hood luck

freda

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 09:06 PM

My oldest nephew was put into "Special Education" because he was "slow." Okay -- and after a year he wanted out. He couldn't GET out. His parents couldn't get him out, and he was doing such educational stuff as watching cartoons. Finally, after 18 months, my brother got really pissed off and ran for the School Board -- and won. When the nephew was leaving, the SE teacher told him (this is an exact quote), "Now, when it gets too hard for you out there, you remember that we're always here."

Nephew graduated from High School and spent five years in the Marines repairing helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. At discharge he was a staff sergeant (E-6); he's now married (his wife as a double BA) and a foreman at Dow Automotive. Turns out he had an undiagnosed reading problem -- and some lousy teachers. His ASVB scores put his IQ in the "near genius" range.

His sister WAS in the genius range -- and in her last year of high school was taking astrophysics via the Internet. Brother ran for School Board again because of his concerns about the Honors Program -- turns out that it was governed not by grades and testing scores, but by "teacher recommendation." When Bro and other school board members got THAT straightened out 2/3rds of the honors program was replaced....

Now, if you're talking Monkey County, Maryland, you're talking Yuppiedom Squared. But hell, I'd give a run for the School Board; the worst that can happen is that you'd be elected.

Otherwise, scream and yell to the media -- especially Fox News.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 09:24 PM

Donuel, remember this.

The only negative thing about home schooling is to ensure that the child gets sufficient 'social interaction' especially 'peer social interaction'.

Yes, even been on the receiving end of school bullying is a 'highly educative social learning experience' (they're all selfish bastards!).

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt to prove it, read the book, seen the movie, in the cast taking the play on the road...

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 10:32 PM

Don,

Our pediatrician always gives us a few papers at each visit. They have to do with the immunisations being administered, their height and weight, the usual. I have them all in a file around here somewhere. I never look at them, just cram them in the file for "just in case." I guess this would be one of those instances.

As several others have suggested, if you backtrack through your various insurance providers you should find records of everything they paid for. You may have to look at old records if you, like me, have had several companies depending on who got the contract with your employer that year. (I wish they'd dump BlueCross/BlueShield--my doctor did. BC/BS is so poor about paying and they were going to lower payments to doctors again, that the doctor bailed first).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 10:37 PM

I agree, Foolestroupe, social interraction is important. I used to tell my kids that in the real world, you don't get to choose the people you work with so learn how to deal with the other students, even if they are jerks. I loved elementary school but hated high school. If anything, I learned how to ignore those that I didn't like and to nurture friendships with those that I did like. Generally, it teaches you how to get along in the greater society.

As far as vaccination and immunization, I agree with Peace, go to your school board and ask to see where it says that a child must present a medical record. In Canada, thats considered confidential information and to demand it would be an invasion of privacy. Nobody has to be immunized.

Donuel - Seems to me that your son's school does not believe that parents are partners in education. I think you should shop around. In kindergarten and grade l, here, parents are encouraged to stay in class for the first 40 minutes to read individually with children. We call it noisy reading time. Everybody is reading aloud and it is very noisy! Funny though, the kids love it and don't seem to notice the noise because they are concentrating on reading aloud.

If a parent wanted to come to class and observe their child, I would have to have a good reason to deny them entry or my principal would be having a very stern talk with me.

Its your taxes that pay for that classroom as well as the teacher's salary. You have every right to observe.

I'm surprised you still have school nurses. Our public health nurse comes by about once every six weeks. Her main job is to keep the medical manual current, and immunize the big kids for hep. She is considered a resource, not a member of the staff. If she has a concern, she sends a letter home but thats it. Hearing is screened in Grade l but that is done by the regional health authority.

How odd that in a country that vehemently rejects 'socialized' medicine, that schools would have a nurse. Who pays for her services? Tell her not to touch your kid without your permission. She sounds like a very invasive person.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 10:37 PM

My pediatrician gave me a folder marked with the immunizations, date and his signature to show the school nurse. Don't they have a file on your son? A paper one?
Time to have a lawyer give a friendly call first to the doctor then to the scholl board.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Severn
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 10:53 PM

Damn! My daughter and stepdaughters are all grown up now, but we used Pediatric Associates for all three of them. This was back before the computer age really clicked in, mind you, but I logged quite a bit of time in their waiting room. Scary! And disgraceful, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 11:07 PM

Give the child the proper immunizations!

If you, as guardians, are so unorganized to not keep records, have the record tatooed on his buttocks.

Parents like you enable/permit ruebella, smallpox, measles, infantile paralysis, whooping cough, and hepititis.

Given your statement....and back-tracing of your URL....local authorities should take protective custody of the child....and YOU should be expelled from "parenthood." You are a danger to more than your son.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 11:21 PM

More than likely, the scholl board will be bored with illiteracy.

Some are destined to Nobel fame; others should follow their pappy's footpathe to the dole line. And society will be richer for each path chosen.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 11:21 PM

You could be quite wrong about that, nameless one, but who am I to challenge your chosen religious beliefs. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 11:23 PM

" Common sense needs to used."

Oh, but it is in SUCH short supply... as this thread testifies to all too effectively

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 11:26 PM

Pediatric Associates is where my parents took me between the ages of 9 1/2 and around 12 or 13. I took my son there once when he got sick while we were visiting my parents (he's an adult now). They've certainly been around long enough to know how to run a doctor's office. My sister and my friends and I used to like to take a few trips up and down their elevator just for larks when we were walking to Wheaton Plaza back in the 1960s. They didn't approve.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 11:27 PM

I have a small bottle of it here, Clinton. Very rare. I'll sell it, but only for big bucks. You get first crack, if you're interested.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 11:41 PM

I've got it by the hogshead LH... I'd be happy to give it away if I thought it wouldn't be wasted...

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 12:03 AM

Guest - You are so obviously Martin Gibson, its laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 12:29 AM

Your son should be expelled from school, becuase he could have a disease in him that is trasnferable and in that case deadly. At my college you arent aloud to live in the dorms unless you have all of your immunization records kept up to date and completed. They give the shots for a reason. Not only could he be endangering himself, but all the other teachers and children in that school. It's a long shit, i will admit, but it COULD happen and the school doesnt want to take that chance. You were unprepared and now your paying for it, don't blame them becuase you dont have everything you need together

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 01:23 AM

You have a disease in you that's transferable. Mean-mindedness. There is no effective vaccination for that yet. Too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST,h
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 01:51 AM

By the way, who can tell what the immunization requirements are in the first two months of life.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 08:30 AM

Your son should be expelled from school, becuase he could have a disease in him that is trasnferable and in that case deadly. [...] Not only could he be endangering himself, but all the other teachers and children in that school.

How could he be endangering all the other children?

They have all been immunized by the vaccinations (without them they would not have been allowed into school, remember?)

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Seiri Omaar
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 10:03 AM

And last I checked, it wasn't Donuel who's responsible for losing the records.

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 10:08 AM

[Yawn.] Another nameless "Guest" comes trolling at Mudcat. He/she/it has nothing of importance to say, just wants to stir things up. Let's see, it's about time for name-calling, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: My son is expelled from school forever
From: jeffp
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 10:40 AM

What specific vaccinations are you lacking documentation for? For some, a blood test showing immunity is acceptable as an alternative to a vaccination record (polio, measles, mumps, rubella, varicella).

No immunizations before 2 months of age are required by the Maryland schools.

Reference: Vaccine Requirements for Children Enrolled in Preschool Programs and in Schools