BS: Are We Anti-English

Subject: BS: ARE WE ANTI -ENGLISH
From: GUEST,Margaret at the window
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 12:11 PM

Dear friends I would like to hear from catters over the globe with their views on the English. Are the English pompous, stuffy, self righteous,born leaders of men, bullies, adventurers, invaders, tormenters or just a special kind of race. Would really like to hear your viewpoints. By the way I am Welsh.

Subject: RE: BS: ARE WE ANTI -ENGLISH
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 12:18 PM

I hate them!! I love the Welsh, my eldest is at University in Aberyswyth/Aburiswith..... or something like that!

Subject: RE: BS: ARE WE ANTI -ENGLISH
From: mooman
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 12:26 PM

According to my old boss (who was English (note underline)) there are three types of people:

- those who are English;

- those who would like to be English; and

- those who have no ambition at all!

Peace

moo (not English but I don't have anything against the English)

Subject: RE: BS: ARE WE ANTI -ENGLISH
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 12:29 PM

Furthermore, do we English give a Flyin' Fuck what the colonials think about us? I don't.
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 01:03 PM

thread.cfm?threadid=27868


I think the words of this song say it all myself !

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 01:44 PM

From my perspective, I think many on this side of the atlantic tend to think of the english as being more sophisticated, cultured and friendly (if not as much as our neighbors to the north). I also think that when someone speaks with an english accent that people here tend to give them 10 iq points more than they actually have.

As for my own personal opinion, I have a very positive opinion. In particular, i've always considered the greeks and the english to be the basis for 'western civilization'. It may be that one day I would add the US but I think it is too premature at this point.

I recognize that I attribute certain things to the English that rightfully started elsewhere (like trial by jury), but the English have been the ones to institutionalize these concepts.

Then there is the example of WWII where we saw the indomitable spirit of the English people in stark contrast to say people like the French. Or in the words of Churchill:

" We shall not flag nor fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God's good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old. . "

The concept of 'vichy' England is impossible.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 02:26 PM

Strollin'...in the words of Meatloaf....."You took the words right out of my mouth".
The instigation of a thread of this nature (which could be construed as racist) shows a lack of true understanding of the inveration and courgeration of the mass populous. Is it insinuated that we tolerate such diabolic insolence from such a microscopic piece of animosity?.
A Welsh guest? who in no way resembles the true wellie wearing sheep shearers (I think that's the right spelling).

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: *daylia*
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 02:53 PM

psssssssst Ms MargeRat ... duck!
Unca-Frenchie's passin thru    :-O   
flippin 'is Fancy, just pour vous!

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 04:38 PM

Iffez-vous must, pullez le pis en sus own language s'ilver plait, por favor, bitte, entranada, guvendeh ... niche dans wor tongue.

merci, danke, gracias, ta, ta, et cetera.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: John O'L
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 05:50 PM

The English had an empire. Anyone who had an empire is going to be hated.

English rulers have not always made the best of all possible decisions down through history.

The English are in fact a unique race; their history is that of a people who should have died out centuries ago.

There are English arseholes just as there are Welsh or Australian arseholes.
Most of the rest of us haven't had an empire though, so English arseholes tend to be a tad more so.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 05:58 PM

Thank you for delivering upon me the sins of my fathers!

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 06:03 PM

John O'Lennaine, the all consuming depth of your understanding of peoples of the world astounds me.You are I assume not English. Are you a Political Historian or just another of those arseholes you talk so fluently about?

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 06:34 PM

Time for tea?

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: *daylia*
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 07:54 PM

Without it's a-holes, this planet would soon be full of sh feces.

SO, let's hear it for the English!

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: John O'L
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 11:28 PM

Just expressing my personal view. I thought it was pretty conciliatory actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Amos
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 11:35 PM

WHy would you even try to establish characteristics that applied to a whole nation of peole? How illogical. Let's see -- are women good, or bad? Are they too talkative or too unresponsive? Are they kind, or are they cruel? Friendly or standoffish? "Oh. OI think all women are cruel because one tried to get me arrested once...". Sheeshe.

Define your set a little more carefully. Have you no perspective??

A

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 11:50 PM

The English people are the salt of the Earth---even if the Scots DID invent tarmac, radio-location, the first steamship, anaesthetic, the telephone, television, built the first pedal bike [my g-g-Uncle Kirkpatrick MacMillan], lit up the streets with "town's" coal gas, not tae mention the momentous discoveries of porridge,haggis and Penicillin. Och! If it hadnae been for Marconi, they'd have had nobody----but I still think they're great folks! And like me, they don't tend to brag too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 03:15 AM

Nah the english are all arseholes,

particularly that Michael Caine. he comes on the telly pretending to be someone else and everybody knowes its Michael bloody Caine.

they should hand bad back the falklands and get their tanks out of Dublin NOW.

no bloody excuse.

In fact Osama should make a smart bomb that is heatseeking and finds all the English blokes and detonates up their arsehole - only they'd enjoy that, cos they'e natural perverts.

wouldn't give you tuppence for the lot of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 04:00 AM

English tanks in Dublin ..........Hmmm .......... I shall look out for those in a few days when I go over to the Emerald Isle

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 04:08 AM

Hoisted by your own petard Big Al? See you tomorrow night mate.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 04:21 AM

I think we had (to me) a similar thread recently. I am English but I do have certain discomforts, remembering talking to a Welsh friend of my fathers who remembers being banned from speaking Welsh in school for one. I don't think there is any way English people as a whole can be blamed but I don't sit comfortably with say Brittania rulling the waves.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 04:25 AM

No you're right....I wave at who I like, when I like and where I like and no Britannia will rule over who I wave to!

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 04:25 AM

I don't think Maggie at le fenetre is trying to 'establish characteristics' as Amos puts it. I guess it is a natural progression to my thread 'Are we anti-Irish'. I think the answer is yes. Judging by the ammount of venom directed against the English in the cat box itself I would say that there is a distinct anti-English feeling out there. But, like strolin' I, for one, don't give a flying one. Or any other sort;-)

If there was anything like the racism shown toward the English directed at Jews, Blacks, Irish or any other race, colour or creed many of the threads here would have been closed long ago. But you will be glad to hear you can carry on having your fun. Unlike some thiner skinned people we are big enough to take it. We can even laugh at ourselves. Isn't that a novel idea?

Good luck with the petty vindictiveness. See if you can come up with something original instead of the usual bollocks:-)

Cheers

tG

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 05:24 AM

Michael Caine is an arsehole, his real name ic Maurice Micklewhite, whats wrong with that ?

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 05:34 AM

Co-incidentaly I watched Zulu again last night. In the opening titles it says 'Introducing Michael Caine'. Must have been one of his first and he doesn't speak like he does in the rest of his films. Still acts like an arsehole tough...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 05:54 AM

Throughout history every race or creed has had scapegoats, in recent years the bigotry in this country has been directed at the Irish people who settled here, then came the influx of Afro Carribean who became the targets instead of the Irish, then came the Asian community who took the heat off the Afro Carribean to some extent, then came Refugees who in turn took some of the heat off the Asian community and now ........ dare mention Asylum Seekers ......

Incidentally my good lady Wombat in her role for the NHS found amongst the Asylum seekers in our area over 100 highly qualified medical staff who are now working in the NHS, these being Consultant Surgeons, Doctors, Physiotherpists etc etc. The saving to the NHS in terms of training costs alone was phenomenal, so much for bone idle, lazy scrounging bastards eh!

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 05:56 AM

Plenty of English tanks in Dublin still. Made by Armitage, Shanks, Crapper etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 06:07 AM

To be honest, I am anti-anyone who is anti-anyone! Does that mean I don't like me much?

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 06:19 AM

With you there Georgiansilver. There's too mubh introspective navel gazing in this kind of discussion.

It's about time we recognised that NO group is without its minority of scroungers, criminals, and A-holes.

All generalisations are false....including this one.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 07:18 AM

Guest Jon,
It's true that at one time Welch schools actively discouraged the use of Welch.
That would have been down to the Local Education Authorities, not the English.
Consider also how native American children were educated around that time. Also Basques and Bretons and minority languages everywhere.
Be not so judgemental.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Splott Man
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 07:34 AM

Some people say English when they mean British.

Some people say British when they mean English.

Some people say English when they mean (historically) the Ruling Classes.

As Dick Gaughan said - England was the first colony.


Splott Man (an Englishman living in Wales)

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 07:50 AM

The thread topic is actually intriguing. It seems evident that both the US and England, for instance, have a love-hate relationship.

For instance, Americans often consider English accents (at least the Oxbridge accent) as evidence of high culture, to which a lot of us aspire. But on the other hand, we're quite happy when the villain in the show is a rich haughty Englishman, who of course gets his comeuppance in the end.   I think the degree to which an American resents a well-spoken Englishman depends to a large extent on his own self-confidence--if he feels himself to be an educated person, and therefore anybody's equal, he is probably free of that sort of visceral unthinking dislike.

Similarly, I believe, many English really like American blues and/or country music, but are dismayed, as are many Americans, by the way the McDonald's cheap throwaway culture is infesting the globe--as well as the way our current leadership approximates a bull in a china shop.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 08:20 AM

And too many untravelled people get their information from black and white b movies.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Amos
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 08:56 AM

And live their lives as though a "B" movie was the height of accomplishment.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 09:41 AM

Guest Jon,
It's true that at one time Welch schools actively discouraged the use of Welch.
That would have been down to the Local Education Authorities, not the English.
Consider also how native American children were educated around that time. Also Basques and Bretons and minority languages everywhere.
Be not so judgemental.

Not trying to be judgemenat Keith, and I can only lay claim to being English.

I suppose native Americans might be another one but I'm unclear in that. The bits of American things I've seen like references here to a constitusion aree (IMO) great (and if I understand it correctly, the right to free speach, or the right to a trial by jury are good things) but was there also an invasion of a native culture?

My own, limited understanding would say there was, but would I blame all Americans, I think not.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 09:44 AM

(And there is me using words like blame and not being jugdmental! - point to you there Keith!!!!)

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 09:55 AM

I find that I use English to mean UK more often than not. Mostly because of ignorance. I wonder if the peoples of Welsh are all that much different than in Scotland or England than the peoples from different regions of the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 10:03 AM

I don't believe we are rearelamb. I think we could all enjoy life in these countires. It's really the human being as far as I can see things and we are so odd. We can be capable of acts of great kindess but also of butchery.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 10:23 AM

(To expand on that, would I have it a black, white [even green if you can find me on] is any better or worse thant lests say an Englishman or scotsman. would I (going biblical here but you can take it other ways) wonder what the hell god was thinking of when he let us rule the planet - yes, scares me at times)

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 11:07 AM

well i don't care. next one of those little bowler hatted bastards I see, I'm going to smack him in the mouth....

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 12:14 PM

And what if he hits you with his brolly first. What-ho brother

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 12:26 PM

Nah WLD, drown the little sod in the bath...........

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 12:27 PM

Jon,
I remember reading that many native American kids were extracted from their reservations and educated entirely in none native language and culture.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 12:29 PM

'specialy if the brolly has a ricin point;-)

I love All generalisations are false....including this one Can I borrow it? Or I'll swap it you for there is only 2 things I hate - racial predjudice and f"£$ing Englishmen...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 12:49 PM

Is Britain the only country where children in state schools are never:

Asked to pledge allegiance?

Taught the origin and symbolism of the national flag?

Taught the words or the tune of the National Anthem?

Encouraged to learn the musical culture of their land? (England only)

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 03:40 PM

The problem with England has always been the class system - it subtly pervades everything.
When I was a kid, growing up in provincial England, in the 50s and 60s, it was all much more blatant than it, perhaps (?), is now. My family was working class - my Dad was a sheet-metalworker in a local factory. This fact determined what sort of school my brothers and I went to and what sort of education we got. When I left school (a Secondary Modern) I decided that I wanted to continue my education and do 'O'levels at the local Technical College. The school careers advisers actually tried to dissuade me from this course ("wouldn't you be happier working in a factory, like your Dad?"). When I got my 'O' levels I, and my fellow students, decided we wanted to do 'A' levels - again the response was discouraging (" I get fed up with you working class kids getting a few 'O' levels and getting big ideas about going to University!").
Nowadays the situation is reversed. My local council seems to have it in for 'middle class' people, like me! My relatively well off suburb has to have as much development as possible crammed into it, whilst 'working class' districts go to wrack and ruin. Basically, those in power in this country can't help discriminating against people. It's not all fun being English!

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 03:48 PM

John O'Lennaine
you wrote
The English had an empire. Anyone who had an empire is going to be hated.

That is all the main powers in Europe then.
incl. France, Germany, Holland Belgium Spain

Our ex colonies are still friends and remain in The Commonwealth.
On balance they benefitted from the institutions and infrastructure they gained.

Other colonies gained independence through blood and fire. Ours with tea and ceremony.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 03:57 PM

And yet even more nations have benefited immesurably from the Magna Carta, John Stuart Mills and Adam Smith.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Gurney
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 06:14 PM

Guest Margaret, yes, all of the above. Most generalisations have an element of truth in them.
Most of the posts above I can't argue with either. You just have to get things into perspective, and you must pick your own perspective.

'The English' did spread their particular brand of government around the world, and a poor thing it is. Until you consider all the others.

'The English' have been tyrants occasionally, and they have fought tyrants, the most notable being some of their own kings, the catholic church when it was corrupt, Napoleon, Hitler, and many, many others.

You will have to judge for yourself. I did, I emigrated from England to New Zealand, but I'm sure I could be settled in the USA, or Ausralia, Canada, or indeed Wales or Scotland, and perhaps Ireland now that the IRA are showing sense. Countries with representative government and religeous freedom because of their British colonial origins. I have relatives in all of them.
Chris, 33 years a Pom, 31 years a Kiwi.

Subject: RE: BS: Are We Anti-English
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 05:01 AM

You should remember Keith, that the fact that our ex colonies remain friends, and part of the commonwealth, says more about their tolerance, than about our popularity.

In many cases, we did not walk out of those countries, but were forced to leave by extended campaigns of armed resistance.

E.G. In Kenya, Mau-Mau terrorists drove us to negotiate self government.
We were thrown out of Rhodesia now Zimbabwe) by the Ian Smith government.
We were forced to hand over Cyprus, by armed resistance.

In many cases, the first leader of an independent ex colony, was the ex leader of said resistance, e.g. Archbishop Makarios, Jomo Kenyatta.

While we now have an amicable relationship with those governments, it would be surprising if there were not some underlying feelings of dislike, or even hatred.

Don T