Obit: Child killed in ATV accident

Subject: Obit: Young Child killed in ATV accident
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:28 AM

I am heartbroken. A 6 year old student of mine was killed the other night while driving an all-terrain-vehicle across a busy road at 8:20 pm. Chandler was a bright, loving, happy little boy who loved nothing better than going out on his ATV with his dad, who now has to live with this for the rest of his life. Besides the stupidity of allowing young children to operate these things, at that hour of night, alone, the senselessness is keeping me up tonight.

Please hold his family and the school community in your hearts.

Allison

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:36 AM

Wow Allison 6 years old, jeez that shouldn't have happened, really sad for all the family.
Giok

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:21 AM

Allison,

I am so sorry to hear about this and I understand perfectly that you want to talk to someone about something so shocking. However, it seems to me that this is essentially a very private tragedy. It also occurs to me that there may be legal implications to what appears to have happened to this poor child so for the sake of decency and legal propriety I feel it might be as well to leave this subject for now.

That doesn't mean I'm in any way unsympathetic - I have a child who will be 6 in a couple of months - but I don't feel that we in this forum should intrude. Sorry if that sounds callous. It isn't intended that way but the more posts we get the more likely it is that someone will say something inappropriate or just play stupid.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:36 AM

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:34 AM

I know you mean well Scouser and you don't sound callous, but - I can't see how this thread is an intrusion. Do the parents know it's even here? No one's been named so how can there be legal issues? And speaking of the law, it can't have been legal to allow a child to drive one of those things unsupervised, especially near traffic.

I don't think we should be banned from discussing this, which just feels like censorship. Maybe it will make someone else think twice and prevent another tragedy.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:12 AM

Incredible! What do people use for brains?

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:37 AM

In the UK (I think this is the UK) there are so many rules being broken by unlicensed and uninsured kids under the age to drive, on untaxed and un-MoT'd vehicles that do not meet construction and use regulations, being driven in public (usually without the legally required crash helmets) but where there is no right of way (or no appropriate right of way) that typical examples would nearly fill a policeman's notebook.

Why on earth do parents permit and even encourage this sort of stuff?

My sympathy is for the innocent road users who have likely suffered both physical and mental damage because a 6 year old was doing such a stupid thing. And, frankly, if that sounds callous, maybe that is not such a bad thing. Children need to learn not to play with fire, and to obey rules.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: curmudgeon
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:04 AM

My condolences, Allison. As a former teacher, I understand your feelings. For those who wish more details and clarification, go here.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:25 AM

I felt a real heel recently phoning the police to report a neighbour. He thought it good practise to teach his two boys how to ride those mini motorbikes, but they are fully fledged motorbikes, lots of power, just smaller all around. So every day after school we had the delightful whine as two boys aged six and seven rode up and down and up and down the cul de sac behind our garden. This would go on for about an hour a day and the speeds increased daily. The police were excellent. The neighbour hasn't been since with the motorbikes since, and the boys are both alive.

So sorry for the loss of your pupil.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 10:17 AM

I heard an important lecture in court one time. I had to go to a county court to be declared the administrator in a probate case, and before my hearing, the judge was telling two parents that they had to be the parents and do the thinking, that they couldn't let their six-year-old make decisions about things that she was unequipped to make decisions about.

I would predict that this father will get more than a stern lecture. There is always the temptation to let your child do things simply because they want to and you crave their happiness, but common sense says they're not prepared, physically, emotionally, or chronologically. It's the parent who has to recognize this and not allow or encourage such dangerous activities. It doesn't make you popular, but (everyone together now:) being a parent isn't a popularity contest.

In addition to ATVs, if they'd ban juvenile use those damned personal jet skis a lot more children would survive to adulthood. Kendall asked what parents used for brains. I would argue that a lot of these parents have shit for brains and will never make the right decision on their own unless they see a tragic reason why this isn't a good idea. Someone has to see the danger in it. Kudos to the 'catter who called in the neighbors kids. You may have saved their lives.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 10:36 AM

Seems to me this belongs "downstairs".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 11:41 AM

Allison, what a tragedy. Strength to you in helping your pupils understand this when next they come to school. It's hard enough for us to even try to understand.

This reminds me there is a national group which is trying to stike down laws in over 35 states which prevent children under 12 from hunting. State wildlife management folks have been going hand-in-hand with them in organising "child hunt days" encouraging families to bring their kids out to learn to kill doves and squirrels. It seems hunting is on the downswing and the money-makers of the industry as well as wildlife mgt. folks think they need to go after kids. I personally don't think it's too great of an idea to have kids under 12 with a gun at all, unless target-practising with extreme supervision.

Sorry for the soapbox. It's just bothers me how quickly folks want kids to grow up these days.

Sending you lots of good thoughts and {{{{HUGS}}}},

luvyakat

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 12:01 PM

I find myself watching a lot of Real-TV or Max-X and shows of that ilk (I think it's funny watching stupid people do stupid things and hurting themselves badly in the process )

I can't count the number of near fatal accidents involving YOUNG kids on ATVs I've seen on such shows... Why there aren't more deaths, I can only attribute to dumb luck.... and that kids that young tend to bend instead of break...

But evidently a LOT of parents are in need of a damn good slap or seven...

Poor little dude....

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 12:30 PM

Too bad there is no IQ test required for reproducing.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 12:33 PM

I don't mind if kids grow up. I don't even mind if grown ups grow up. It's letting kids play like toys with things that are dangerous even for grown ups that is mind-boggling.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 12:34 PM

And yes, I agree this is BS

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 12:59 PM

It should start earlier than that Kendall, like how about making getting married a tough as getting divorced. Maybe even a sanity test to go with the blood test☺
Giok

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 01:07 PM

"Too bad there is no IQ test required for reproducing"
There'd be a lot fewer kids running around, I'd imagine...

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 01:34 PM

The flaw in the equation to do with creating difficulties for getting married, of course, is that marriage and reproduction are only incidentally associated these days.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:56 PM

More criminal stupidity.

Father should be charged with child abuse and endangering the welfare.

And prevented from breeding again.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:28 PM

Allison, what a tragedy for you and all involved. My heart goes out to you, the family and the community. Please accept the sympathies of one who does not know you personally, but for whom the bell tolls.

With all best wishes,

Elmer

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:23 PM

GregF, let's hope the loss of his child will be enough punishment...something he will never outlive; the guilt alone will probably shorten his lifespan.

{{{{{2L's}}}}}

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: bbc
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:11 PM

Allison, I was so sorry to hear this. I sympathize as a teacher & a mom. I hear my grade 3-5 students talking about these things, too. At my former home, we had a neighbor who allowed his son to drive 3 & 4-wheelers, as well as their riding mower, up & down our street, sometimes w/ a toddler aboard. I called the police a few times, but it didn't stop them. Crazy. I was afraid every time I drove up the street that I'd meet them coming the other way.

love,

bbc

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:55 PM

Sorry, Kat, but it don't work that way. He'll be right back out there tomorrow with his 4 year old son.

You read about one of these ATV-type "accidents" every week. We had one that killed a young child locally last month and another in July. They're not accidents, they're neglect and child abuse.

And the parents are responsible.

I know "responsibility" is a dirty word these days, but there you have it.

Best,

Greg

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Ian
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:46 AM

I think if the death was the result of a colision, the driver of that vehicle will be devastated also.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Pistachio
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 06:10 AM

Hello Allison,
Sorry to read this thread. I teach 'cycling proficiency' to 9-11 year olds here in Yorkshire and I know it TAKES TIME for the children to realise that what they see approaching is a potential danger. We teach them to stop, look and wait. I believe it is a parents job to do what I do....yet I'm thankful for my employment... because we take the time that some parents won't..and hopefully give the children a better chance to recognise dangers when they are 'in traffic'. It's often not until the third session that my colleagues and I see the children actually fully REACTING to the traffic.
The father WILL be devastated. Any motorist who was involved WILL be too - both deserve sympathy. The Father has now learned the hardest lesson. Stay at their side until they are REALLY ABLE to keep the machine controlled and make safe decisions.
I agree with Richard Bridge and SRS - the children are far too young to comprehend ANY DANGER - they are just having FUN - innocently oblivious of the danger they may be in and IT IS the PARENTS RESBONSIBILITY to guard them and inform them of the dangers. The importance of staying close, and doing as they are told.

I know the kids I teach hate me shouting BUT if my voice makes them jump surely that is preferable to a car getting too close....or worse!
Responsibility - it's too important a work to ignore but so few seem prepared to accept 'it' these days.

In sadness, with sympathy and love,
Hazel.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:22 PM

This is a terrible thing for everyone concerned--you have my most profound sympathy--

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:25 PM

Good for you, Hazel. I cannot remember how many times we had the "Stop, look, and listen" drilled into us, at school and at home, not only while bicycling, but also walking.

Greg, I understand and I do NOT think "responsibility" is a dirty word. I've been writing about parents' responsibilities for years. I agree with Hazel re' the dad and the other driver. I also think it is a generalisation to say he will be back out there with his four year old.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:31 PM

I'm with Gref F 100%!

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:23 PM

My one brother let his son drive an ATV -- in the backyard. Only. In many places their not street-legal. Even then the kid had to wear a helmet and he couldn't, obviously go very fast. Oh, yeah -- the kid was 15.

The other brother let his son drive the ATV. In a circle. In first gear. Helmet, of course, and other gear. The kid, 11, loved it, even though it was at about 1.5 miles per hour.

Neither would let either kid do it alone. Ever. And especially not at night.

I'm sorry, Alison, and I understand your grief. But this is a case of stupid parenting.

Kat -- I agree with you about the guns and hunting, although I'd allow it IF the kids were accompanied by an adult AND had completed a safety course.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:46 PM

Of course...the LaughKat posted...and I am now "posting below the line."

I am bad...I acknowledge my transgressiions...I will stay "above the the line" as long as the "gigglin gato" remains below.

I have crossed over twice....in a spirit of magnanimity....I will allow the KittyKatterying to cross four time into the logic world...above the line (it has become the chaos of her realm anyway.)

Cross Over - Kitty - I will keep count.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 12:28 AM

garg -- are you off your meds again?

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 12:34 PM

Believe me, the blame and head-shaking are rampant here in 3-D as well. But I'm just trying hard here at school to help the kids deal with their confusion and grief, on top of the flooding that has turned many of their lives upside-down.
The funeral was today; I volunteered to stay with the little boy's class so his teacher could go. We talked, we sang, we read "Green Eggs and Ham" (another boy's request) and discovered we could laugh, too. They just came in from recess, and they're about to learn that life returns to normal when it needs to.

I don't think these little 6 year olds will get it for a long time that he's not coming back.

Thanks for the love and sympathy and PMs. I do appreciate it.

Allison

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 12:41 PM

Good to hear from you, Allison. Strength and love to you as you help those kids and for yourself and family, too.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 12:42 PM

I was 5.25 when my father was killed in a construction accident. I saw him laying in the casket; I attended the funeral, including the cemetery part. I remember the rifles firing o'er him, and I have the flag from his coffin.

None of this led me to the realization that he was really, truly gone and wouldn't be back. I don't remember looking for him, but it wouldn't have surprised me if he'd shown up, either.

At that age, the knowledge of death simply isn't realized.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 01:44 PM

" I don't think these little 6 year olds will get it for a long time that he's not coming back."

And likely, by the time they do, they will have been distracted by something else

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 03:31 PM

We had a similar accident here over the weekend.

Tragedies both.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 04:15 PM

"Police have seized the vehicle."

Seems to me it's the parents that need to be seized.... and shaken...

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 04:26 PM

Animaterra

I am sorry for your loss.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 07:43 AM

Thanks, Donuel and all.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 10:54 AM

Police have seized the vehicle. An independent mechanic will inspect the ATV to see if a mechanical problem resulted in the four-wheeler going off the road.

No doubt vehicle mechanical problems are checked for so the family can sue the manufacturer for megabucks, right? They prefer to jump to the conclusion that the vehicle was bad, that "operator error" might not be the case with a small child operating the thing. Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

It's so difficult to raise a child to adulthood, even in our modern age. And then you hope you have equipped them well enough to stay alive and given them an example to enable them to raise their children wisely and safely. The systemic inability to raise children with common sense can in part be attributed to grandparents who were lacking crucial information to pass on to their children. And now they're overseeing grandkids on the weekends. Kids they can afford to pamper more than they could pamper their own children when they were growing. I suspect a social examination of this problem would find many gaps in the cultural knowledge that needs to be remembered and reinforced to enable that village to raise that child successfully.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 11:32 AM

My daughter buys more for and indulges her son lots more than we, his grandparents do, SRS. As for common sense being passed on...my parents had plenty of it, but you'd never know it looking at my genius brother.

Wouldn't you want to know if a vehicle had something faulty going on if your child was killed while riding it? Maybe the steering locked up? I don't think a 5 yr old has any business on an ATV, can't believe they make them *child-sized*, but I'd still want to know if there was something wrong with it. I really doubt that money would be a motivating factor if I decided to pursue a company with a faulty product which may have cost my child's life.

Lot of judging going on. Don't think the parents aren't going to beat themselves over this for the rest of their lives. That was a very compassionate quote by the cop near the end of the article. Good for him for understanding.

kat

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 12:33 PM

"Don't think the parents aren't going to beat themselves over this for the rest of their lives."

I suspect they won't administer a harsh enough beating...

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 12:53 PM

Yes, it would be good to know if something was wrong with the vehicle. But it was operated by a five-year-old. Odds are overwhelming that it was operator error.

My observations weren't an indictment on all grandparents or on who splurges the grandbabies, kat. It was an observation that the generation that raised many of today's parents were the product of a culture in which all experienced great strides in technological progress and general common sense doesn't seem to have kept pace.

In the last 75 years automobile ownership has become almost universal in the U.S., and after that market saturation came the affordable small but powerful engines for more than functionally important machinery for farm and industry. Small two-stroke and other small engine vehicles have become almost as ubiquitous as cars. With all of these luxury machines we seem to see a growing lack of respect for the dangers of things mechanical and an absence of the caution that goes with the ability to move faster than you can walk.

Add this largess to the highly influential marketplace that pushes the idea that if you can do it (whatever "it" might be), you should do it, and the younger the better and you can see where all of this is headed.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:39 AM

This girl was very lucky. But at no point in the article does the writer suggest that she had any safety training, that the vehicle was checked out for safe operation (as the ATV was checked for "proper operation"). In fact, it says that she is a "daredevil." No culpability seems to be assigned to the parents who let a fifth grader drive such a powerful vehicle.


A tough spirit bounces back
Benefit raises $6,200 for girl who lost arm in accident

By Bill Sheets, Herald Writer

MUKILTEO - Since Victoria Sonnenburg lost her left arm from the elbow down in a jet ski accident two months ago, she's had good days and not-so-good days. "It's just like an emotional roller coaster, going up and down," said Victoria, 11, of Mukilteo.

Sunday was a good day. More than 200 people donated more than $6,200 at a benefit luncheon at Amici Bistro in Mukilteo on Sunday to help pay the girl's medical expenses. Victoria and her family, Mukilteo residents, were there. So were many of their friends, Victoria's teachers, church members and many others the family didn't even know. Some just dropped off money and left.

"It's really absolutely humbling to see what's going on here," said George Sonnenburg, Victoria's father, amidst the din of people packed into the restaurant Sunday afternoon. Many of those present marveled at how well the girl has bounced back from the accident. Her young friends sold plastic purple bracelets for $5, each inscribed with the words, "Victoria the Brave."

While she's been down at times, family members said, her mood has mostly been bright. "The spirit is still there," her dad said.

The accident happened Aug. 14 when Victoria, her parents, her brother, Spencer, 13, and friends were jet skiing on Lake Goodwin in the Smokey Point area. It's been a regular family activity, George Sonnenburg said. Victoria's an athletic girl, enjoying soccer, basketball, softball and dancing. "The daredevil that my daughter is, she just loves it out there," her father said.

She was on the jet ski when it hit a wake and flipped her into the air. A rope used to pull skiers behind was coiled up on the jet ski, and when Victoria reached for the craft, somehow the rope got wrapped around her lower left arm and severed it. "Literally her arm hit the water before she did," said family friend Mark Golarz, who was there when the accident happened.

Victoria remembers everything, she said. At first, she said, she screamed a lot. A man on a boat nearby jumped into the water, pulled her out and took her to shore. "I wanted to go to sleep, but my dad wouldn't let me go to sleep," Victoria said. There wasn't a lot of pain, she said. "I just felt a lot of pressure."

Golarz recalls Victoria looking at her dad and smiling. "She said, 'Is this a dream, dad?' " Sonnenburg recalled.

Emergency responders were there within five minutes, he said. He praised a Snohomish County sheriff's deputy for keeping everyone calm. Within 30 minutes, Airlift Northwest arrived to take her to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. Divers searched for Victoria's arm into the night and the next morning, but never found it, said Amanda Sonnenburg, Victoria's mother. They would have had to find it within four hours to be able to reattach it, her mother said.

Victoria was in the hospital for only four days, admitted on Sunday and released Wednesday, Amanda Sonnenburg said.

The next day, she was shooting hoops in the driveway. Soon, she was playing soccer again, and on Sept. 7, she started fifth grade at Columbia Elementary School in Mukilteo.

Her teachers have been very helpful, her mom said. Victoria and her family discussed her situation with all the fifth-grade students in a group setting, to keep her from having to answer as many questions and so the students would "get the real story," George Sonnenburg said.

The family is waiting until her arm fully heals before deciding whether to consider a prosthetic, Amanda Sonnenburg said. The type that can be used to grip objects is heavy and starts at $25,000, she said.

The airlift cost $9,200, and most of the medical bills haven't come in yet, the family said. They're not sure how much insurance will cover. A golf tournament at Harbour Pointe recently raised $12,000.

Meanwhile, Victoria is adjusting, living her normal life. She's right-handed, which helps, she said. Golarz believes the way Victoria came through the accident and the grace with which she's faced her situation is an indication of something special. "She's going on to achieve greatness," he said.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 12:04 PM

Whatever the details of any accident, the real problem is the pervasive tendency in our society to push children towards maturity. Whether we are bragging that they can read at 3 or buying them toys (including ATV's) which are not suitable for their age, or exposing them to violent media which they are not equipped to handle, we are pushing them.

I use the term "we" loosely, of course. I know that most 'catters are not doing this.

Recently I picked up a book by a therapist who said, "In the 1950's, the big problem was the spoiled child. Now the problem is the pushed child."

I have noticed that in the comic strips, the kids are merely small-size adults now. We see 10-year olds going on dates and 7-year-olds criticizing President Bush. Obviously the cartoonists have decided that real children, with their childhood activities and concerns, are of no interest.

I'm not surprised that 6-year-old Chandler wanted to "be a man" and ride his ATV off on his own.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 12:07 PM

"pervasive tendency in our society to push children towards maturity"

Agreed... except that childhood (As we mean it in this context...) is a very recent invention... a couple of generations ago, it didn't exist at all... So that alone makes me question the validity of such claims...

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:14 AM

The obvious malfunction and/or defect is in the brains[sic] of the adults involved. No "checki9ng" required, its blatently obvious.

But look on the bright side- at least the kids won't breed........

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:44 AM

Go crawl back under your rock, Greg F.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 02:01 PM

"at least the kids won't breed....."

It's not that kids at fault here GF... It's the parents...

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 05:18 PM

Of course its the parents fault! I said so, above, and they should be banged up in jail & and their other children, if any, placed into care for their protection.

Since none of that is going to happen, I'm just looking for some good to come out of a misearble situation.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 05:55 PM

The death of a child is never the "bright side". Greg - rethink your position - your "logic" is faulty.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 08:21 AM

If this widespread problem of Parental Idiocy is to be solved, we've got to break the Cycle of Stupidity.

These children are making the ultimate scarifice in this noble effort, The War on Irresponsibility.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 10:58 AM

Education is a much less wasteful and painful approach to curing stupidity, Greg.

Like Wesley said, go rethink your position. The [problematic] Darwin awards aren't about throwing ones children off the precipice. Eugenics is an idea whose time is long gone.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:08 PM

No, the Darwin Awards are about not short-circuiting the process of natural selection by protecting morons from the consequences of their actions.

Education vs. Eugenics. Interesting.

Especially since its abundanttly clear that education ain't working...

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:07 PM

It looks like an inmate wants to run the asylum. . .

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 04:10 PM

Bad shit happens. People always want to find someone to blame when bad shit happens. These were tragic accidents, whatever the circumstances (and all we have is a little news byte on it all). Nobody wanted what happened to happen. I hope neither you nor I never know what the people involved are going through.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 10:16 PM

It is difficult enough just understanding the random accidents that happen in the world, that when you see one that could have *easily* been prevented you want to kick something. Or someone. Throw them in jail for being so stupid. Society doesn't have a really good response to the curse of inadequate parenting. Education is a good idea--but those same people who need it are usually the ones needed to vote to fund it to put a ballot measure over the top.

There's the rub.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 10:53 AM

Inadequate parenting? That father probably thought he was doing a good job - spending time with his kid, doing something together. Doing an activity and buying a product which was public, advertised, okayed by the safety commissions and practiced by others. Buying and riding ATV's is not something you or I would do, but that doesn't make it malfeasance.

Do you think he was awful because he didn't hear the kid turn off when his own engine was roaring in his ears? His failure was one that parents have committed time and again - not realizing how quickly the kid has become more independent. Sometimes this discovery leads to minor pleasure, sometimes it leads to tragedy. Nonetheless, it happens all the time.

Don't criticize a person till you've walked a mile in his moccasins.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 12:08 PM

Thanks, leeneia.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 12:19 PM

You don't consider it a lapse in good judgement to let a small child ride a powerful machine? Walking a mile in his shoes would no likely leave me with dead children on my hands.

No thanks--I think I'll pass on that prescription.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 03:34 PM

I don't know all the facts of this event, but I had a three year old child killed in an atv accident. He was sitting on a swing eating figs with his grandmother and when other kids left it running and got off he took off and jumped on. It happened so fast and couldn't have been prevented. These things are very dangerous and in my opinion, lacks saftey features. A three year old child should be unable to operate them. It is a parents decision, however, what happens in cases like mine, where he was to quick to stop? I'm tired of other countries and big companies dumping this crap on us and calling it safe. I't not!!

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 05:10 PM

Little 7 year old girl was killed in quad bike accident day after christmas a couple of years ago. about a half a year later her father was arrested for manslaughter.

He was in his car on dark county road, escoting his 2 kids on their quad bikes back to their home, when an oncoming car, passed him and some how struck the quad bike his daughter was following on. Whether she wandered over to the other side of road, or because county lanes are so narrow and she didn't pull over for on coming car, is not known.

Maybe I am over cautious, but if I ever let my kids on one of those things, which I wouldn't, it would only be in a field, after they had all the safety lessons and with correct protective gear.

How bad that dad must feel.

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:36 PM

Do ATVs and such small vehicles not have keys? ...or other off switches to control who can use them?

Subject: RE: Obit: Child killed in ATV accident
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:23 AM

so sad that their child has died,however what person allows a child to drive a car.

hindsight i think