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Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual

Janie 06 Nov 05 - 10:10 PM
Bill D 07 Nov 05 - 10:46 AM
Janie 07 Nov 05 - 12:24 PM
wysiwyg 07 Nov 05 - 12:24 PM
Janie 07 Nov 05 - 12:35 PM
Janie 08 Nov 05 - 08:42 AM
wysiwyg 08 Nov 05 - 10:10 AM
wysiwyg 08 Nov 05 - 10:12 AM
Janie 08 Nov 05 - 10:22 AM
Nancy King 08 Nov 05 - 10:45 AM
wysiwyg 08 Nov 05 - 10:59 AM
Janie 08 Nov 05 - 01:05 PM
wysiwyg 08 Nov 05 - 01:15 PM
Joybell 08 Nov 05 - 06:15 PM
Janie 09 Nov 05 - 08:16 AM
Janie 09 Nov 05 - 08:17 AM
Joybell 09 Nov 05 - 04:05 PM
Janie 09 Nov 05 - 06:31 PM
Janie 09 Nov 05 - 06:56 PM
wysiwyg 10 Nov 05 - 11:29 AM
Janie 10 Nov 05 - 12:00 PM
wysiwyg 10 Nov 05 - 12:30 PM
Joybell 10 Nov 05 - 04:11 PM
Joybell 10 Nov 05 - 08:33 PM
Janie 11 Nov 05 - 08:22 AM
Carly 11 Nov 05 - 04:24 PM
Joybell 11 Nov 05 - 04:43 PM
Janie 11 Nov 05 - 04:47 PM
wysiwyg 11 Nov 05 - 06:03 PM
Joybell 11 Nov 05 - 06:17 PM
masato sakurai 11 Nov 05 - 08:04 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Nov 05 - 09:14 PM
Joybell 12 Nov 05 - 04:38 PM
kytrad (Jean Ritchie) 14 Nov 05 - 01:22 PM
Joybell 14 Nov 05 - 05:41 PM
Joybell 14 Nov 05 - 05:43 PM
Joe Offer 11 May 17 - 08:40 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 10:10 PM

I suspect the lyrics I'm looking for have already been posted--but a search of the DT, Forum, and Google are turning up nothing.

I heard this song sung in the 'Raise the Roof Gospel' session at this year's Getaway. I have it on a recording Annie did of that session but can't make out all of the words. The chorus goes something like the following:

I depend on you, you depend on me.
Faithful servant I will always be.
When you hear that trumpet sound
You can depend on me.

As I listen more to the CD, I suspect I'll be looking for a lot more of these songs.

Thanks.

Janie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 10:46 AM

That was Carly singing.....she will no doubt be glad to give you the words. (maybe PM her, as her computer has been on & off and you never know when she'll see this.)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 12:24 PM

Thanks Bill. I thought it might have been Carly leading it, but wasn't sure. I've pm'd her.

Janie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 12:24 PM

When you get it, Janie, would you not only be sure it's posted, but index it in the Spirituals Permathread (post title and thread URL)?Thanks!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 12:35 PM

eyup!

J


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 08:42 AM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 10:10 AM

Duh-- Janie, a lot of spirituals go by any number of titles. Can you post more, of what you can, from the recording?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 10:12 AM

... also, "spiritual" can mean several different things-- did this have the sound of an African-American spiritual, or might it have been from (white) camp-meeting days or the Sankey period?

~S~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 10:22 AM

I'll take another listen to try to hear at least some of the verses.

I don't know anything about gospel/spirituals history. It doesn't have the sound or phrasing that I (rightly or wrongly) associate with Black southern gospel/spirituals. Who or what is/was Sankey?

Thanks

Janie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Nancy King
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 10:45 AM

This is one of my favorites, though I never really learned it well enough to do more than sing along. As I recall, it's one of those songs that works with all of the "zipper" gospel verses, such as "Moses stood on the Red Sea shore, smitin' the water with a two-by-four," and "Jordan River is deep and wide, milk and honey on the other side," etc. Right, Carly? Or am I forgetting some verses specific to this song?

Nancy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 10:59 AM

Janie, on "Sankey" it would be a LONG answer... and I'm a bit tied up today (bring scissors!). The words you have for the refrain, though, don't equate to what I know of slave-song imagery or wording, which is the cultural basis for the songs I collect as "spirituals." (But we do use a lot of other traditions' songs in our church service, so I still want this one.) Anyway, now I'm curious to know more of its cultural setting.

Maybe Nancy and/or Carly can advise, or BillD maybe. Who we really need on this thread is Masato Sakurai, if you want to try a PM?

If you have no luck on verses, I can get you some from other songs, or write a few, if I can hear it. I do a lot of that for our band, and I can swap you a set of our arrangements for a copy of the CD. :~) Aw heck, just come over! :~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 01:05 PM

I just googled Sankey. I wasn't sure from what I read if he was a lyrist in his own right, or if he mostly wrote music for lyrics already out there. Also, when referring to the Sankey period, does that just mean songs or tunes attributed to him, or his his name attached to an era of hymn writing or revisionism?

Nancy, Bill, Rita or somebody--if you see Carly would you tell her I have sent her a pm?

Janie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 01:15 PM

Well, briefly, as it was explained to me, one might say of a certain type of song, "Sounds like a Sankey-song" .... that "Sankey" became somewhat of a generic term, like kleenex....

But none of this should deter you from learning and singing the song NOW, while it appeals to you so much..... Why not post what you have, and I can suggest some fill-in text? Or send me the CD-- I can often transcribe what seems unclear because I know the text in question from another song, and/or I can extrapolate what it would have to be, from Biblical references and from the context of what IS clear... I do a LOT of that with this type of song.

And if, as indicated above, it's a zipper song, there are zillions of "correct" verses, and it would also be approritat within the genre to add new text. Cuz that's how these songs happened to start with.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joybell
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 06:15 PM

Hildebrand has been singing this song since the 60's. Lovely song. I'll be interested to hear more. Cheers, Joy
Here's what he's got to say:
Hildebrand here.
I learned this about 1960 from Phil Rhodes (Perlman). He said it was from the Bahamas.   
I can only remember the one verse and chorus.

Chorus:

Depend on me, I'll depend on you.
I'll be your servant faithful and true.
When you hear my Master call,
You can depend on me.

Verse:

Dig my grave with a silver spade.
Lower me down with a golden chain.
When you hear my Master call,
You can depend on me.


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Subject: Lyr Add: I DEPEND ON YOU
From: Janie
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 08:16 AM

Thank you Carly! Here are the lyrics she pm'd to me. She notes that she sings it as she learned it from Lisa --oops--forgot last name--will go back to pm and then post it. She also notes that it can easliy be a 'zipper' song, as Nancy King observed above.

I DEPEND ON YOU

God gave Noah the rainbow sign
Said, No more water but the fire next time
When you hear that trumpet sound
You can depend on me

         I depend on you, you depend on me
         Faithful servant I will always be
         And when you hear that trumpet sound
         You can depend on me.

Moses stood by the Red Sea shore
Smoting that water with a two-by-four
And when you hear that trumpet sound
You can depend on me.

The river Jordan it sure is wide
But there's milk and honey on the other side
And when.....

When you reach that other shore
You won't have to die no more
And when....

Times are easy and times are hard
Sometimes trouble comes around to my backyard
But when you hear that trumpet sound
You can depend on me.

Susan--do you still want this indexed to the permathread? And how do I do that? just copy the URL of this thread to a post in the permathread?

Janie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 08:17 AM

Carly learned it from Lisa Neustadt!

J.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 04:05 PM

Janie, Seems to me that those verse words won't fit with the version we sing. Do we have a different tune maybe? Or were the verses added using a different tune? I'd be interested in a bit more info. about the source. Is that possible Janie? Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 06:31 PM

Hi Joybell!

I have not been able to find out anything about the song other than what I posted above from Carly. Couldn't find anything with google, in the DT or on the Forum. If I ever manage to get home on-line problems resolved, I will be looking into a program that will let me create and then e-mail WAV files. If when that happens, I can e-mail the song and tune to you.

The version you have actually can work with the tune I learned at the workshop from Carly--but some editing or altering of phrase would make it flow better.

Think I'll google the slightly different phrasing you provided and see if it gives a start.

Janie


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Subject: Lyr Add: NO GRAVE GONNA HOLD MY BODY DOWN
From: Janie
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 06:56 PM

Joybell--no joy;<(

The "dig my grave...." phrase appears in several lyrics, the most notable being "One Kind Favor" (Blind Lemon Jefferson) but I doubt the songs are related.

"No Grave Gonna Hold My Body Down" (lyrics copied below) may well be a related song. But the most specific Google hits all lead to this here thread we are a talkin' on. What we be needin', seems to me, is one of those fine scholars who hang out here to jump in....pretty please?

NO GRAVE GONNA HOLD MY BODY DOWN

Go down yonder, Gabriel.
Put your foot on the land and sea.
Now blow your trumpet, boy, until you hear from me.
There ain't no grave gonna hold my body down.
There ain't no grave gonna hold my body down.
When you hear that trumpet sound,
Gonna get up out of the ground.
There ain't no grave gonna hold my body down.

Looked over Jordan, what did I see?
A band of angels coming after me.
There ain't no grave gonna hold my body down.
There ain't no grave gonna hold my body down.
When you hear that trumpet sound,
Gonna get up out of the ground.
There ain't no grave gonna hold my body down.

Meet me, Jesus, meet me.
Meet me in the middle of the air.
If these wings fail me, meet me with another pair.
There ain't no grave gonna hold my body down.
There ain't no grave gonna hold my body down.
When you hear that trumpet sound,
Gonna get up out of the ground.
There ain't no grave gonna hold my body down.

Janie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:29 AM

Janie,

Sounds to me like it's a later-than-slavesongs piece that incorporated some of its imagery and text from slave spirituals. Until we hear a more tightly woven connection to slave times, no, it should not be indexed. But sung, yes! :~)

The key would be not where did the various verses come from, but where did the hook come from-- the "Depend on Me" portion. This is because ALL the verses look borrowed from somedamnwhere, and from different time periods, as well, but that hook doesn;t seem like a slavery piece either in terms of theology or escape-code or misery-code.

In its original sense, I'd want to know-- who is depending upon whom, and for what? Is it meant to vconvey that God can count on the singer to remain faithful, or is there another sense to the text?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 12:00 PM

I agree, Susan. And the 'hook' seems too ambivalent to be typical of gospel songs or other hymns. I am beginning to suspect a group of summer camp counselors put this together in 1965 or there abouts to vaguely reinforce values of faith, interdependence and mutual responsibility. It really is a terrific 'sing-along' that had all of us catching on to it by the end of the first chorus. Would be a fine campfire song for a YMCA camp.

Now I am wanting to hear the tune to "Ain't No Grave". It isn't in the DT, but google sites say it is traditional. No speakers at work and no on-line at home. what's a girl to do?

Janie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 12:30 PM

I know the refrain for that one and I may have a clip of the whole thing. I'll swap you!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 04:11 PM

Thanks, Janie. I went that Google path too.
The song, the way Hildebrand learned it, sure sounds as though it might have come from the Bahamas as he was told. Just in fragment form maybe. Several songs from the same place were doing the rounds at the time.
Also as he sings it it flows beautifully without stretching or squashing. I'll see if he will post it note by note. It's short. By the way he uses the same tune for verse and chorus. I'll be back when True-Love wakes up. Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 08:33 PM

From Hildebrand

chorus:
                            De-
pend on me, i'll depend on you.
i'll be your servant faithful and true.
when you hear my master call,
you can depend on me.

notes, key of C:
            
               g
g g g ,edc c c.
ee eg e dd ed .
e eg edc dc   ,
ce cb d c    .

How does this compare Janie? Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:22 AM

Thanks Joybell. I'll borrow Dani's piano and peck it out and then get back to you.

Janie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Carly
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 04:24 PM

At Last! I am typing this on our brand-new computer, and construction on the church next door seems to have passed the cutting-phone-and-cable-lines-every-other-day phase.!Hopefully I"ll be able to be around the Mudcat more regularly now.

Hildebrand's version does seem to be connected to mine--I'll have to rummage around and see if I can find a Bahama link to the version I sing. Unfortunately, I never got any background when I learned it; it was during a singing weekend many years ago, and I just picked it up from hearing and singing it.I don't think Ain't No Grave Gonna Hold My Body Down is the same song...it is a great one, though. Helen Schneyer used to reduce everyone in earshot to tears singing a slightly different version it; she may have recorded it, but I just can't remember offhand. I'll check.

One of the reasons I am drawn to this song is the ambiguity of the chorus. It makes me suspect that it is an older song or derived from one; the sixties' singaround choices, as I recall, tended to the most obvious meanings. So, are we to depend on God, or on each other, or the "other" also singing, who knows the code words? I could argue the point for this song being tied in somehow to the conductors on the underground railroad, but it would be pure speculation on my part, and part of the fun for me is singing it with other people and seeing where it takes them.

Have fun!
Carly Gewirz


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 04:43 PM

Thanks, Carly. I've loved this song since Hildebrand first sang it for me 30 years ago. You're right you know about the ambiguity. Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Janie
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 04:47 PM

Yea Carly! Glad you can at last chime in on this discussion.

Hmmm. Interesting thought re: the ambiquity. I think both you and Susan are more scholars of this music than am I. Surely with enough of us dogging the trail, some more information on the song and its origins will appear.

Janie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 06:03 PM

We need Masato & Q!

~S~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 06:17 PM

Phil Rhodes (Perlman) would be a good place to start I believe. Is anyone there in contact with him?
Hildebrand's learning of this song is from 1959-1960. Is that our earliest finding so far? Back to the scource! Back to the scource! Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: masato sakurai
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:04 PM

Sorry, I don't have any info on this gospel.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:14 PM

I looked through a bit of Google, and found 3-4 different gospel songs with that title. Without the lyrics from these singers or groups, however, I don't know if one of them is for the song wanted here or not. I will try again later.
It does not appear in any collection of spirituals that I know of, and like WYSIWYG, I think it could possibly be an African-American gospel tune, 20th c. , but the associations of ideas in the song ring false to me.
The first two lines posted are floaters found in many spirituals, the trumpet sound is not uncommon, and there are echoes of material from a number of spirituals all through, but put it all together and it seems to be a mish-mash.

I like the image of Moses "smoting that water with a two by four." That does make it sound like a summer camp compilation.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 04:38 PM

Hildebrand learned the version he sings while he was on that 60's New York scene. I think the answer may lie with some other singer who was there. We're emailing Bill Lyons. He can ask Oscar Brand. What about other Mudcatters who were there? Friends of Dave Van Ronk? or of the Clancys, or of Joan Baez. I'll PM Jean Richie. She was there at the time. Can't let go of this. Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 01:22 PM

Joy- thanks for your personal alert... Throughout my (long) life I have heard most of these verses, but not the, "You can depend on me" chorus. I would guess that these words and the addition of this as a chorus must be be newest part. There is such a flexibility in gospel music, which seems to be one of its natural features, that I think it's impossible to assign one original source to this song. My best guess!   Jean


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 05:41 PM

Thank you Jean. Your best guesses are of great value. As I told you in my message it's such a thrill to talk with you here. It's interesting that you hadn't heard the chorus.

Makes me wonder if we are looking some parallel songs that have met along the way. I mean rather than just a collection of floaters. If that's so, we still may be able to find a more complete version of the one Hildebrand learned. Hildebrand has had this chorus and one verse in his head for 46 years and it's become rather like the Lost Chord for him. These other verses don't fit with them comfortably. (Speaking as singers, here) "...Maybe when Death's Bright Angel...."
Still searching. Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 05:43 PM

and then it'll be too late to sing it!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: You Can Depend on Me/Spiritual
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 May 17 - 08:40 PM

Here's a recording by Jamie Wilson of "Ain't No Grave." I really enjoyed it:


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