Draught Guinness

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 06:15 PM

my DEAR Strollin' Johnny!..."Watered-down weasel-piss"....I can see you have not strolled about the USA recently...or have not looked properly! 30 years ago, you would have been right, but 29 years ago a little brewery called "New Albion" was started, and from that beginning an entire industry of micro-breweries has emerged that produce 'almost' every type of beer/ale....and some of them world class! If you are ever in Delaware, try Dogfish Head ...some amazing brews!

That being said, I would like, just once, to try a Guiness in Ireland!

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Dave Swan
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 06:45 PM

New Albion!!!! Ah, Bill, there was a brewery. We played their company picnic a couple of times and lived to tell the tales.

I still have a New Albion t-shirt in nearly new condition and a wooden beer case with Sal Guardino's etching of a sailing ship on the side. See the photo near the bottom of this page. When New Albion closed they sold their equipment to an upstar called Mendocino Brewing, the authors of Red Tail Ale.

Forgive the creep. God I miss that beer.

D

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 07:27 PM

Not good for the piles let me tell you !

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: John Routledge
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 08:08 PM

Anyone who has seen the "yeasty mould" growing in pipes which are not cleaned very regularly would immediately know why beers from lazy landlords are not up to scratch.

This may also be the case with Guiness.

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 10:12 PM

oh, my Dave! It is amazing to even find someone who knows of New Albion! (of course, you BEING in Southern California helps!)

I still have a New Albion Porter bottle in my collection, and though I may dispose of the OTHER 900 bottles someday, New Albion is not for sale....(well...make a ridiculous offer!)

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Dave Swan
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 10:41 PM

Northern California, dammit!

D

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 11:44 PM

ooooooopppppppppppsssssssss!!!!!!!!!

I stand sit corrected...My brain cell was tired.

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: iancarterb
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 11:51 PM

don firth- right on on moose drool, and i recommend you try anything from deschutes brewery, esp. their obsidian stout. guess i need to repair the left hand shift key on this computer.

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 12:52 AM

Guinness is not a heavy beer. Not certain, but I think it lies around 6%. It is by far my favourite pint----if it has been treated and served properly.
   Our local club in the auld sod had a first-class pint of guinness; right temperature, regularly cleaned pipes, AND a good "club price"!
Then some blooterhead decided that in order to improve the BEER , an increase in the chill factor had to be introduced. So they chilled their lager [heartburn inducer] and stapled the damn' lager pipes alongside the guinness pipes. Utter ruin.The great pint of guinness chilled the taste-buds so effectively that it was hardly distinguishable from the yucky lager. And that holds good for ALL chilled guinness--no matter who drinks it, be it an Irishman in Dublin, or a Geordie in Newcastle. My first question in any bar is "Any REAL guinness?" Most barmen, to give credit, know exactly what I'm asking. They usually do have a "sacred " pump; long may it continue----

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 01:13 AM

I first tasted Guiness in Ireland. It was not too cold, smooth and creamy. I especially enjoyed the sweet foam. What a treat. Tried it many times since in Canada and the States. Sorry to say, its just not the same. I don't know why but after reading this, I would guess its the preservatives and the temperature.

I'm actually glad its not as good here at home. It went down just a little too easy. Explains alot about the Irish and "the drink".

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 02:46 AM

As a student I had to earn my money by hard working. For several years I delivered beer for several breweries, was deputy for a landlord on holidays, and tapped a lot of barrels myself.

The quality of every beer depends on the right cooling. Too warm: tastes like horse piss; too cold: no taste at all, but gives your intestines the creeps instead.

Cleanliness is essential, and a bigger throughput keeps the hoses longer clean, as Anon. Guest so rightly remarked.

As a driving gas we use C2O (carbonic acid) over here in Germany. It is tasteles and doesn't affect the taste of beer.

I started in the good old times when we had only wooden barrels (moved and tapped them from ca. 15 - 50 gallons), then different kinds of metal kegs were invented. I couldn't taste a deterioration. They are easy to handle, and the modern bayonet coupling surely is an improvement.

And don't forget the three Hs I mentioned in another thread:
Beer, consumed excessively, will make you hungry, horny, and - alas - himpotent.

American beer: The big brands you can forget. When delivering Mainzer Bier to American units, they had a lot of boxes of American beer in their basement. The NCO told me, that they had to take it, but no one drank it, preferring German beer. Wise guys!

Cheers!
Wilfried

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 03:41 AM

" As a driving gas we use C2O (carbonic acid) over here in Germany. It is tasteles and doesn't affect the taste of beer."

I thought Germans were supposed to know about beer, the Reinheitsunterseeschwimmengeboot and all that. The use of CO2 as a blanket and propellant for keg beer was the original raison d'etre of CAMRA. That and the retention of wooden barrels, which campaign was lost.

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 05:31 AM

BillD - Sorry mate, I allowed myself the luxury of an attempt to provoke old Martin! LOL!

A thousand apologies - there are indeed some nice American beers, my personal favourite being one called Shiner (I think that's its name - it's all so hazy now!) of which sampled a few during a hot & humid stay in Houston a while ago. I rather like Moosehead too, but I think it's Canadian, not American?

But sadly they don't compare to Guinness - or to Monkey Wrench, Black Sheep or Tom Woods. :-)
S:0)

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: GUEST,Stuart
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:33 AM

Bill D you talk of a subject dear to my heart. The best American beer I found on the recent visit was "Shipyard" from Kennybunkport, Maine.

How's the sampling of the english beers we left with you going

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 01:49 AM

Wilfreid, y'are dead right. Our local beer drinkers used to lament "wild weather" for the simple reason that it gave the beer a rough ride being delivered in the "dray" to the pub.

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 04:03 AM

Paul - what is CAMRA? (not in my dictionary)

Sorry for the typing error. Naturally it must be CO2, which I should know as a former firefighter.

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 04:22 AM

It wasn't the typo that I was moaning about- It was the blanket CO2. CAMRA is the (British) Campaign for Real Ale:

CAMRA's definition of Real Ale

And I know German beer is often excellent. In fact, when I was last in Bavaria, my friend there was praising highly the beer he was drinking. He said it was "top fermented". I pointed out that this is the normal way of doing it in Britain, except it doesn't come out cloudy...

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:22 AM

Does that mean CAMRA is not a pressure group?

Sorry I'll get my coat.

Dave

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 12:28 PM

Stuart! I just tried the 1st one last weekend. Tried the Butcombe Gold Bitter. Took it to our song circle, where I could sit quietly and sip whilst listening to other's sing. I dont usually pick bitter as my first choice when picking a beer, but this was first rate! I'd happily have more. (As you remember, there was quite a bit of beer left from the excursion, including some Shipyard, so I have saved those special ones for times when I an not distracted...*grin*)

Strollin' Johnny...I have had Shiner...and Moosehead, and those are about a 'C' rating (though Shiner Bock may rate a C+)...Now Black Sheep! I was lucky enough to be gifted with a bottle 2 years ago, and THAT is fine beer!

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Raedwulf
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 04:42 PM

Since it hasn't been properly explained so far...

There are two differences 'twixt' beer/ale & lager. The first is top/bottom brewing. Lager is top brewed - the yeast sits at the top of the must (must: the fermentable liquid), beer/ale is bottom brewed. Nothing to do with the must, AFAIK, it's just the way the yeast is.

Difference two: Lager is supposed to be drunk cold, beer *not*!. This is one of the reasons I hate lager. Ever druk warm lager? It's horrible!

The ideal serving temperature for lager is @4C, beer should be served at 'room' temperature, 12-16C. This explains my standard commentary on lager ("You know why they serve it that cold? It's so you can't taste it!"). Being slightly more fair, lager is supposed to be drunk cold, it's brewed with that end in mind.

Beer you should be able to taste. Comments have been made about the temperature at which Guinness is served. It is Irish stout; it is beer, not lager; you should be able to taste it! The notion of ice cold Guinness, to me at least, is bloody ridiculous. Whether that alters any perceptions of Guinness, I don't know; but as someone who likes his beer, I'm always happy to try anything that claims to be a stout. I'm not overmuch on bitter, but mild, stout, & plain simple 'beer'...

Not so happy about anything that claims to be "Irish" stout, though. I've always found them to be... lacking... (this includes Guinness, but I've never drunk in Ireland, so I may have been unlucky).

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: My guru always said
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 07:13 PM

guest stuart

Bill D

obviously started with one of the good ones, stlll my favourite is Hook Norton. you and Rita had best get over here and we can have a really good session.

Here in london with MGS for a beer festival tomorrow, so I can try a few southern beers tomorrow

Stuart

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 07:46 PM

oh, I'd love to get over and try these at their source!
*opening the 2nd as I type....waiting for it to achieve decent temperature*

Isle of Arran -Sunset

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:33 PM

and the "Sunset" beer is delicious! Layers of flavor in something simply called 'beer'...I approve! Yum! It is not strong or demanding...it allows you to enjoy it with a meal and still appreciate a fine beer flavor.

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 06:06 PM

Aha - Raedwulf brings further light into the confusion. In Germany all brews made from malt, hops, yeast and water are subsumed under "beer".
Lager, Export, Pilsener are bottom brewed, Ale, Bitter, Stout are bottom brewed (unfortunately just the opposite as R. tells us).
A specialty of Duesseldorf and surroundings is Alt (= old), so called because it is brewed in the old way: bottomwise (with its near relative Koelsch, from Cologne).
While in ye olden days the fermentation depended on the germs flying around and dropping into the must at random - so you never knew how your beer would get, nowadays it is possible to single out special yeast cells for special brews.
So fermenting at lower temperatures became possible, also to store the so brewed beers for a longer time. Hence Lager from germ. lagern = to store or Export because the beer could be transported over great distances without decay.
A good bottom brewed beer should be consumed at ca. 8° C
Carbonic acid as a pressure for bottom brewed beers is considered necessary over here. By the way, the world's first apparatus for carbonic acid pressure aided tapping was invented, patented and first produced in 1865, in my home town Friedberg near Frankfurt.
But every one to his taste - de gushtibush non esht dishputandum, as the Suevian peasant says. The ingredients are, in my humble opinion, more important than the pressure; only with German beer you can be sure that you get the pure stuff (since St. George's day, A.D. 1516)

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 06:10 PM

Correction:
Ale, Bitter, Stout are top brewed. My fault - too tired, not enough beer.

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 13 Nov 05 - 02:04 AM

Wilfrid is right, lager IS beer. Even on the bottle it often says lager bier. I think there is a tendency to fully equate bitter with beer when it really is just another style and a not very well defined one either. When does a beer stop being a bitter ale and become a premium ale? Is there that much of a difference between a porter and a stout, Guinness, for example, is often referred to a porter? If you want to distinguish the main grouping of beer styles in the UK then ale may be a better term even though historically ales were unhopped.

In all the breweries I have visited, except the Artois brewery where we didn't see the fermenting beer, the yeast has been working on top where it could get the air. These were all brewing ales of various sorts.

Subject: RE: Draught Guinness
From: GUEST,Bill the Collie
Date: 13 Nov 05 - 02:21 AM

I was introduced to the Guinness they serve in Dublin sometime in the early 1970's. Now I'm a fat bastard.