BS: Riots in Australia

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: John O'L
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 07:50 PM

I grew up in The Shire and my sister still lives there, with her (Lebanese) husband and their children. This Christmas it was her turn to host the Boxing Day family get-together, so my two brothers and I visited them with our own families.

It seems that I had the wrong idea in some of my earlier posts. The trouble has been brewing for some time (years rather than months), and can be squarely laid as the fault of a teenage Lebanese gang that has been meeting at North Cronulla and growing bigger, less inhibited, and steadily more threatening over time.

Now I don't think there is anything inherently evil about Lebanese teenagers, or even gangs of them, but there will always be trouble when such eventualities are allowed to go unchecked.

Apparently the media was blamed by many in the aftermath of the riots, for not reporting the situation earlier than they did, and I guess we can also blame local law enforcement and community groups for not makiing a big thing of it before flashpoint.

Now it has evolved into something it originally had nothing to do with, involving Australian racism, which has always been a problem too easily shuffled aside for later. This could be a good thing, if we can come to grips with it in a rational and reasonable way.

I am always hopeful.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 07:09 PM

Bye, bye, Terry K.

Good luck in your quest to find an all White country.

Don't hold your breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 07:06 PM

If all people were forced to go back to where they originally came from, then we'd all have to go back to a monkey's bum!

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 02:05 PM

CarolC and dianavan, my rhetorical question was in response to CarolC's post as quoted - in my frustration at Carol once again implying that the "white man" she mentioned doesn't belong anywhere.

Terry K, I know you're not anywhere near as ignorant and stupid as this remark makes you look. (On second thoughts, you probably are.)

I have never suggested that the "white man" doesn't belong anywhere (and you cannot find a single example of my having done so). To say that Australia is not the "white man's" country is to say that Australia belongs to no single "people", but to all of its inhabitants, white or otherwise.

To say there is no "white man's country" is to say that there is no country that belongs exclusively, or even predominently to the "white man".

Time for you and people like you to grow up and learn to share.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Terry K
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 12:41 PM

"Australia is not the "white man's" country".

CarolC and dianavan, my rhetorical question was in response to CarolC's post as quoted - in my frustration at Carol once again implying that the "white man" she mentioned doesn't belong anywhere.

But it's clear from your subsequent posts that your tunnel vision will not allow you to think any other way, so once again it's bye bye to what could have been an interesting thread if it hadn't got bound up with your stereotypical taunts and accusations.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 02:22 PM

Definitions of Institutional racism on the Web:

Those forces, social arrangements, institutions, structures, policies, precedents and systems of social relations that operate to deprive certain racially identified categories equality .
www.socialpolicy.ca/i.htm

or structural racial discrimination -- racial discrimination by governments, corporations, or other large organizations. (eg Mary cannot get a job, despite her qualifications, because she is of race Y.)
www.politicalinformation.net/encyclopedia/Racism.htm

Institutional racism (or structural racism) is a form of racism that occurs in institutions such as public bodies and corporations, including universities.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 02:16 PM

Terry K - It seems you are the one fixated on race and sex, and you're not very charitable either. As long as people like you steroetype, people like me will continue to 'talk back'.

Good luck finding an all-white country. Whites are a definite minority in this world. Why should you have a country all to yourself? You already control most of the world and consume most of the World's resources. What more do you want?

Like I said, I see no evidence that Whites are originally from this planet. Where did they come from anyway? Its obvious to me that they have been sent to destroy earth. :>)

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Peace
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 02:14 PM

From a "Robert's Rules of Order" site:

Question 8:
How do you deal with a "friendly amendment"?

Answer:
On occasion, while a motion is being debated, someone will get up and offer what he or she terms a "friendly amendment" to the motion, the maker of the original motion will "accept" the amendment, and the chair will treat the motion as amended. This is wrong. Once a motion has been stated by the chair, it is no longer the property of the mover, but of the assembly. Any amendment, "friendly" or otherwise, must be adopted by the full body, either by a vote or by unanimous consent."

There ain't no such thing as a friendly amendment. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 02:06 PM

Given the personal racism against others who are different from them that far too many people still have, and given the continued existence of institutional racism in far to many systems, I would like to make a friendly ammendment to Peace's last sentence...

"it's true that once ya get past the crap that shouldn't matter (colour, language, religion), most folks are pretty good."

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Peace
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 12:51 PM

PS I have spent numerous years of my life working with people of various backgrounds, and it's true that once ya get past the crap that doesn't matter (colour, language, religion), most folks are pretty good.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 12:33 PM

You don't have to feel guilty, Terry K. And I do not focus on colo(u)r of skin. But I don't have any problem with pointing out when others do. Like you, for instance...

"Can anybody tell me where is a white man's country"

Why do you feel that the "white man" needs a country all for himself? Nobody else has a country all to themself. Everybody else has to share.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Peace
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 12:22 PM

I refuse to feel 'guilty' about being Caucasian (White) or about living in North America--specifically Canada. I have heard the bullshit about everything here belonging to to Native North Americans--that remark was from a NNA, and my response was, "Then you too should go back to where you came from." However, the aspect of racism that is being discussed on this thread is not the aforementioned. It is, rather, the institutionalized form that is all too prevalent in government and business.

No one can make you feel 'guilty' if you don't buy in.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Terry K
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 04:00 AM

It's just the supposed guilt trip that pisses me off - I didn't conquer any countries, yet I'm supposed to feel guilty about my ancestors making the most of their world. The big double standard is that those who criticise white people for occupying other people's countries in the past are the same ones who claim that the world is for everyone to share.

Countries have been conquered and re-conquered over and over again in the past - England being the classic example. Am I supposed to take my Viking origins back to Denmark or simply spend my life seeking out and apologising to anyone who was here before 1066?

On that note, Carol C and dianavan, it worries me that you continually seek to differentiate between white people (the invader) and "people of colour" (the victims). Can you not just for once see the world for what it is, without this fixation about the colour of people's skins?

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Peace
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 04:25 PM

Does it make the racists here happy to see this?

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 01:31 PM

Terry K. - Since most aboriginals are people of colour, I figure most white men must be aliens from outer space who have been sent here to conquer the world.

Go back to Mars.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 01:23 PM

bring back PC - the alternative has been lousy.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 01:19 PM

Yes, it's a pity. I think some of the Guests might well be people (regular Mudcatters) who know the consequences of taking anything but the PC view on race though.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Peace
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 12:41 PM

Why is it that threads of this nature bring out every racist asshole on the Mudcat--most of whom are too ashamed to post under their usual names?

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 10:29 AM

Can anybody tell me where is a white man's country - because it seems to me there is always some (usually white, usually female, usually misguided) person telling me that every country in the world belongs to black people and we whites should all feel really, really guilty about stealing their land.

Well, it sure ain't Australia, North or South America, Africa, Asia, or any of the other places "white men" took (or tried to take) from others. On the other hand, now that many people from the places the "white men" have been interfering with have escaped those places and relocated to the "white man's" country (Europe, mostly), Europe can't really be said to belong to the "white man" either. Law of unintended consequences, I suppose. If the "white man" wanted to keep "his country" his own, he should have stayed there and left the rest of the world alone. Too late to fix it now. You'll just have to learn to live with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 07:09 AM

always was, always will be aboriginal land..

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Terry K
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 06:28 AM

Can anybody tell me where is a white man's country - because it seems to me there is always some (usually white, usually female, usually misguided) person telling me that every country in the world belongs to black people and we whites should all feel really, really guilty about stealing their land.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 05:55 PM

Because he wants his country stay their own.

Australia is not the "white man's" country.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: John O'L
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 05:37 PM

Guest MG -

You no longer wish to write bullshit, and what you do write, you now wish to write in an artciulate manner.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 03:49 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: GUEST,MG
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:25 PM

Don't be stupid. Thousands of them. Yes they are all cretins and nazis, get real. lets bash the white man with a racist hammer again, for what? Because he wants his country stay their own. There is worse 'crimes'"

I really hope English isn't your first language.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: GUEST,MG
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:25 PM

Don't be stupid. Thousands of them. Yes they are all cretins and nazis, get real. lets bash the white man with a racist hammer again, for what? Because he wants his country stay their own. There is worse 'crimes'

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: John O'L
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 04:31 AM

These are mainly cretins, who will be told what to think by anyone with a stronger mind and an agenda. Unfortunately Australia is full of cretins and has its fair share of Nazis too, like most industrialised countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 11:09 AM

i struggle here. I'd like to think nazis are responsible, but there is bloody thousands of them gathering. these are not nazis

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: polaitaly
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 06:36 AM

Foolestroupe, that's " Maroniti".
paola

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: John O'L
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 04:05 AM

My brother-in-law's a Leb and he's an Orthodox Catholic.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:41 AM

Most of the Lebs are in fact not muslims, but an eastern Christian sect (can't remember name - starts with an "M")

Subject: Riots in Australia
From: GUEST,Patricia Chriss
Date: 20 Dec 05 - 11:56 PM

Lebs versus Surfies. An interesting twist to an age-old problem with Australian surf culture.
Both are territorial groups of deluded alpha males and both groups derive their confidence when congregating in packs...a bit like a societal 'blood clot'.

What they need is to be injected with an anticoagulant substance. Something sobering like stricter laws for their poor, disrespectful behaviour. Perhaps home-detention every summer until they grow-up!

That will allow us girls to get our tans in peace, and have less morons harassing us when we go about our daily business.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Dec 05 - 06:10 AM

Now that's interesting - just heard on late news that they're the same guy!

Beside the pistol, and smoke bombs, he also had material from white supremacist sites on his computer - and allegedly in his car.

Still no word on the condoms, guys... what would _you_ use them for if you were caving?

And just how the hell would you use them to make 'petrol bombs' - _safely_ make them that is...

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Dec 05 - 05:52 AM

Ah, it's getting complicated now....

One guy was found with an unlicensed handgun (pistol). Now it's a bit difficult to get a pistol licence here in Oz... so he'e probably in deep dudu!

But on the other hand, another guy fronted a very unimpressed magistrate today. He got bail (commented upon because of the recent law changes about bail!) because the beak said the police case was laughably flimsy. True - he had a helmet (with a light on it), a gas mask, and several other potentially dangerous implements. Seems he is a 'sewer runner' - a paid up member of a club that traces old sewers and tunnels by walking thru them...


Poll says
75% of people believe Aust is a racist place
81% of people beleve multiculturalism is working

??

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 08:22 PM

Well, after the weekend, and the local businesses have discovered that all their customers stayed away! Lots of casual workers discovered that they had no job over the weekend, as will be the case untill people start visiting the beach suburbs again (if ever). The NSW Premier has refused any cash compensation to affected businesses - the weeks before Xmas are normally the best trading all year.

The media seems to have a dearth of info about just how many trouble makers were arrested (only seen mention of the two lots I mentioned above), or just how much problem material was confiscated.

The result seems to be - 1500 police on extra paid duty for a few days - a handful of troublemakers, and losses for the small business community, with most people having stayed away form the beach on a hot weekend.

The two guys with the plastic bottles of petrol - one said he was carrying it for a friend, and the other said he was going to use it for petrol sniffing - not entirely unbelievable, as petrol sniffing is a big problem in some areas, and subcultures.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Peace
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 08:08 PM

BUT, who pushed the buttons?

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: John O'L
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 07:58 PM

...not wishing to scatter their pearls before swine, I assume?

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 08:04 AM

They were white supremicists, one of the papers said.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 11:45 PM

Maybe they were going to put them over their heads...

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: John O'L
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 10:33 PM

Ah well, whatever they were intending, I'm glad to see they were going to do it safely.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 09:00 PM

BTW, to use the Aussie vernacular, the 5 guys were obvioulsy a bunch of dickheads!

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:56 PM

The Police arrested them on the grounds that they planned to f*** something (or somebody), that's for sure! The first reports didn't mention condoms, just 'bomb making materials'.

BTW, the guys with the bottles of petrol on the bus had plastic bottles - I know the originals were supposed to be glass that would shatter, but I suppose the plastic would melt and spread the liquid too.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: John O'L
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 08:47 PM

The mind boggles!

What were they planning to do?

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 07:13 PM

The 5 guys with the 25 litres of petrol didn't have bottles - thay had lots of condoms .... !!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: John O'L
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 06:30 PM

A good thing that has come out of all this is that community groups have met and agreed to take it upon themselves to educate each other about themselves. Communication is the backbone of peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 09:11 AM

It is the media inspired by Howard that has pushed the thing along. This has allowed the neo-nazi types to capitalise on the hatred engendered. Don;t ask me - that's what is getting said in lots of interviews of people in the street shown on the media.... :-) so now the media can sensationalise by bashing Howard... !!!

The beaches in NSW were shut down Saturday and Sunday - over 1600 police on patrol. A few dozen cars and several dozen mobile phones confiscated - some weapons (sticks with nails in, metal bars, molotov cocktails and makings thereof, etc) confiscated, but other wise no violence. Some idiots took bottles of petrol in a backpack on a bus - the driver rang police when he smelt petrol! Some fools caught with a pile of bottle and 25 litres of petrol in their car! And that after all the publicity.

Also several rallies against the new restrictive laws - which have a couple of years sunset clause. Police restricted themselves to 'suggesting' that protesters keep the noise level down by discouraging excessive use of electric megaphones.

There was also some police activity on the Gold Coast in QLD, and some interest in Vic.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: GUEST,Nosmo King
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 10:57 PM

The Aborigines started it all. They were the first in Australia to require sidelining on the grounds of being unacceptably different.

(By this I mean having cultural habits, religious beliefs and physical appearance incompatable with the European/Abrahamic idea of land ownership.
Land ownership is pivotal to it all.)

But this particular fracase is not related directly to the Aborigines. It concerns one Abrahamic group showing disrespect for another Abrahamic group's percieved rights of land ownership. Land ownership is pivotal to everything Abrahamic.

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 06:44 PM

Imagine for a moment that you are having this discussion face to face.
The people who are being most rude here, would be too ashamed embarrased and cowardly to be as insulting as they are in print.


I am curious if the riots are at their core protesting aboriginal discrimination, or if other minorites are spear heading the demonstrations?

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: freda underhill
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 05:27 PM

Saturday, December 17, 2005. 2:37pm; Cultural program to ease Sydney tensions

Nearly half-a-million dollars will be spent promoting respect and understanding between ethnic groups, after a week of racial violence in Sydney. A total of $440,000 will be spent over three years on projects that provide cross-cultural experiences for young people from Sydney's Sutherland Shire district and Lebanese communities. The federal Minister for Multicultural Affairs, John Cobb, says Australians of ethnic background will be encouraged to become lifesavers.

"We want to have a program which basically educates everybody in how things work on the beach," he said. The announcement was made at Cronulla Beach, where Lebanese people were targeted in mob bashings last weekend.

abc newsonline

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: GUEST,riots in australia
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 11:41 AM

Your use, misuse and abuse of the comma needs serious work. You are a wanker. CarolC is so far above you intellectually that you can't see her from where you are. Give it up.

Of course she is

Subject: RE: BS: Riots in Australia
From: GUEST,tam the man
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 07:50 PM

for some reason the leaders of the Australian Nation and councilers can't admit that they were racist, and then that dickhead, one of the leaders comes on to the telly and thinks I'll say I'm sorry and thinks that's all right. Well you're too late.

Tom