BS: More Insult to the Poor

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:50 PM

Martin,

Please...

Use your own graphic vocabulary to fill in the rest---and consider yourself thoroughly rebuked---and silenced!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:15 PM

"That doesn't make me great or special. But it sure as hell makes me worth listening to."

Damned straight to that, Janie.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:13 PM

Know what else Martin? I've also done the Macro work. I've worked politically, I've served on legislative review committees. I've lobbied, written State policies and programs, responded to legislative requests for imput. I've served on boards of directors for non-profit and professional organizations involved with advocacy for disadvantaged populations. I've participated in and helped evaluate social research. And I have not missed voting in an election since I turned 18.

Some people are called to make beautiful furniture. Some to make or play guitars. Some are called to serve--as maids or as social workers. Some find meaning in being an accountant or a CEO. There are people here passionate about their music--you may be one of them. I love music, I love singing, but I don't know diddlysquat about what makes a good guitar. I'll read the threads on it though, and weigh and learn from the varying opinions--paying closer attention to those that are best informed, most experienced, most knowledgable about guitars, and wonder about how much weight to give to the opinions of those about whom I have know idea what their experience or expertise might be.

I am passionate about social work with disadvantaged and indigent people in the USA. And I am an expert in that field. Not the most expert or the only expert, but not very many direct practitioners have had the wide range of experience that I have. That doesn't make me great or special. But it sure as hell makes me worth listening to.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 06:56 PM

'Obviously, your idea along with many others in here is to just throw money at them and say here you go and offer yourselves up as gods and say "Look at me....I'm helping the poor."'

You are sooo wrong. First, I have no money to throw at anything, poor or not. Second, if I did have money and was investing it in people it would go to training and education while at the same time seeing that their families are supported. You have some idiotic notion that I think a welfare state is a good thing. Absolutely not. I think it is a national disgrace that any country in the world should have to have such a thing. That includes Canada.

The simplistic notion you seem to put forth is that people receiving social assistance LIKE receiving social assistance. WRONG! But if the option is that a single mom with kids (or a single dad with kids) can just go off to better her or himself and leave the kids with some benevolent association for the day and then stop by the food bank on the way home to get food and go panhandle for money to get medicine when things ain't so good--grow up for God's sake. You remind me of Margaret Mitchell who 'went on welfare' for a month. Drove her car to shop for bargains; got her meds through her health plan--no cost; used her household electricity and heat and didn't have to include rent in the month's bills. Then the vacuous gal turned around to national newspapers and said words much like, "Gee, I don't see what these people are complaining about." Save your typing/breath/ink on me. No sale here!

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 06:48 PM

I was just talking to a friend who was once a poor, single mother like myself. Luckily, we live in Canada and found a way out. We both agreed that we are happy to work to escape the stress of paying the rent and putting food on the table. It so nice not to have to worry about it anymore. Until you have had that experience, you really don't know how tough it is.

As far as taxes go, I'll gladly pay taxes if I know it is to benefit the less able.

I don't know how anyone can support another cut to the impoverished but agree to billions of dollars going to support the invasion of Iraq. I guess, according to Susu's hubby and Martin, its O.K. to line the pockets of arms dealers and building contractors at the expense of the poor. Some people have their priorities ass-backwards.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 05:39 PM

And keep ranting, Janie-- I think the venting is doing you some good. Can't wait to see what action you take once you get warmed up!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 05:28 PM

Ain't nothin' great or special about me. Just establishing that my view has some firm ground under it, based on training and experience. Silly me for thinking that the basis for my views should matter for those who read them to have an idea of how seriously to consider them.

Janie

I

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: LilyFestre
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 05:19 PM

That should read...if ALL elected officials were required...blah blah blah.

Sorry.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: LilyFestre
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 05:18 PM

Martin,

   Finding a great candidate is a swell idea BUT you know as well as I do that the people who DO have the ability to make sweeping changes care very little about the folks who have empty cupboards or can't afford their medications.

   I think that ALL elected officials were required to live on the average income of what their constituants (sp?) do for 1 year, we would see much more attention paid to the little man who struggles daily to make ends meet. I know that even the county clowns around here...er...wait...I meant commissioners....yeah...uh huh...that's what I meant....are incredibly out of touch with how the local population lives.

   Yes, I also know that it's a voting issue...but sometimes the choices are to pick the lesser of two evils.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: LilyFestre
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 05:13 PM

Susu's Hubby (thank God he's not mine...I'd have to club him over the head with a brick),

    I don't think what you are seeing here is Peace and his minions...I think what you ARE seeing here are people who have either been poor, are poor, or work with the poor....in other words, people with experience. Why is it that you think everyone who receives one form of welfare or another is lazy and has NO desire to better themselves or their lives? Do you think there is one human being on this planet that doesn't want something better for themselves at every level along the way?

I guess since you have clearly stated that you have no compassion for those who live in poverty that there isn't much that anyone can say to you...it seems your mind is made up. I would like to ask you though, how do you think the folks who live in rural America can get to the library to read those books? Some places are lucky enough to have small libraries in the post offices and there are even some bookmobiles around here that folks can access. Libraries are great, if not the best resource around for educating oneself...but a body has to be able to get to the library. Our local town library doesn't have computers so there goes your theory about getting on the internet. The next town over...about 30 miles away does have a library with, I think, 6 computers. So...what your post says to me is that you live in an urban area where there is easy access to everything.

And programs? Yeah...let's pretend the transportation is not an issue...now how about availability on the program's part? Is there ample room in each class? Are the classes during the day? Remember, these people have children...so if they are evening programs, you better have some form of child care....heck, you'd need it either way as not all children are of school age.

And I don't know about your neck of the woods, but jobs here are hard to come by as they are in most rural communities. Sure, there are minimum wage jobs that require little to no training but what is the incentive of taking that kind of job when you will lose so many benefits including medical coverage for your child? Now I know there are back to work programs and other types of programs that are designed to help people get back on their feet without losing all the benefits...but if it were to REALLY be a workable kind of program, it should cover much more, giving more incentives for people to go to work.

I think you live in a world that has NO idea what poverty really is and that you also have very little understanding of basic human instinct. Get a grip, look around...do those folks living on the street look happy to you? How about their kids? Do the ones who live in cars look healthy? Would you hire someone who came into your place of business for an interview if they reeked of kerosene? If they weren't exactly presentable? What if they had no experience?

Some folks can only afford to heat one room of their home with kerosene....the smell follows you everywhere. Brand new spanking clean interview clothes are hard to come buy (even thrift shop clothes are hard to come by in many places) and haircuts cost money you know....and because programs are either packed to capacity or non-existant, many folks aren't going to have the training.

These folks are still looking for work...trying to do something for themselves and their families....but you will most likely turn them away and then you and people like you, have no compassion for people who desparately NEED help.

Get a clue, join the real world for just 5 minutes and I think you'll clearly see where the rest of us are coming from.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 05:00 PM

Janie, I work hard also for as long as you have. I pay my taxes, pay my bills, give to charities, etc.

Your anger is only going to give you a heart attack.

You can change a little but have very little impact on the whole good. Instead of wasting your time here ranting on how great you are, find a candidate who can make a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:51 PM

Ha!
J

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:47 PM

I know, Janie.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:44 PM

Not referring to your post, Cluin, but to the one above it.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:43 PM

See what I mean?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:42 PM

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:36 PM

Bruce,


I have twisted no words. I have not engaged in a "game" of semantics. What we have here is two different about what the word "care" insinuates.

Obviously, your idea along with many others in here is to just throw money at them and say here you go and offer yourselves up as gods and say "Look at me....I'm helping the poor."

Will that help them? Sure it will. Makes you look good too. It's just a quick fix. No substance.

But that's where you and your minions and I differ. What I proposed is a program to actually help them in the long term and for them to be personally responsible for their lot in life. If they do not want to take advantage of the programs that are currently available or take advantage of even something simple as going to their local library, where memberships are free, I hear, and reading a book or getting on the internet and educating themselves about whatever they are interested in and actually taking an active role on bettering themselves then, I'm NOT sorry to say it, I have absolutely NO compassion for them.

If somebody comes to me and truly needs help that will sustain them until they can get on their feet and get over the humps that have been dealt to them then I have no problem helping that person. I've done it many times. But if you ask me to give money that I know will go to people who EXPECT it for nothing in return and no desire other than to sit there and just collect that check month after month, then that's where I've got the problem.

Nobody should be on chronic welfare. The system we have actually promotes that and encourages that. What you and your buddies are talking about here will actually do nothing but strengthen that system and make it harder to turn it into what it actually should be.

If we're going to help them then let's truly help them and stop putting bandaids on a gaping wound.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:30 PM

Thanks for a couple of reminders, Susan and Peace.

    Arghhh....In real action, I don't much concern myself with blame. I try hard to simply focus on what I can do, and on doing the best I can at the micro-level. I am angry and I am heartsick and I am frustrated and tired and I am aware that I am on a rant on this thread. I hate feeling helpless. I hate the look in the eyes of the people I serve when they hit a brick wall that neither of us, working together and separately can find a way over, or around, or through. There have always been brick walls in my work, just not so many of them. There are fewer alternative routes.

    The only people on this thread who will hear what I am saying sing in the same choir as do I. It is the people who experience or observe my life and work directly that I really have the opportunity to influence, and I know that. But sometimes, to keep going, I just gotta rant.

    Thanks for listening.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: LilyFestre
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:25 PM

My mother-in-law is disabled. She gets her income from disability. If there were no food banks in this area, and no one to give her a helping hand, the woman would starve to death. $700.00 a month would be a luxury to her. Try living on that for a month...rent, meds, food, utilites...in that order. She has no car. She has no television. There is no mass transit in this area. Good luck people.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:09 PM

Hubby,

I have no wish to waste time arguing with you. The medical system in the US is beyond the reach of the poor. You can twist that and play with it any way you want. Them wot's got, got; them wot don't don't. If you don't care about people who are poor, fine. No one can force you to have a moral conscience. Maybe not all people have life as good as you do.

Care means care. You split words and fuck around with meanings when what I meant was clear. I have no wish to play semantic games with you. Goodbye.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 02:55 PM

What we have is a system where the poor, as a class, serve a purpose to keep all the other classes in line. Not just in the US. Any society governed by capitalism. We ALL benefit from that system, or we might invent something better.

At various times in the US, government aid to the poor has been looked at as either a privilege or a right. We're still going around about that-- about what a "free society" is and to what it is obligated. (That definition is still governed by the vote, and since the poor are outnumbered, guess who loses?) Right now, the US scale is tipped toward "privilege."

Part of what keeps it all in place is the systematic imposition of numerous artificial divisions that separate people of different colors and cultures. Without those divisions, people would find agreement about inventing (and attempting to live out) a new system.

These efforts have been made from time to time. Mudcat, which is so in love with division that it perpetuates it with threads that purport to "discuss" differences (but which always seem to devolve into divisively rigid stereotype-wars), is not a likely environment for united effort to take root and flourish-- it would need a common belief of some sort. We can't even agree on what "folk Music" is or should be. :~)

What's the solution? I would submit, "to keep trying to be smarter every day of our lives and to keep trying to live what we say we believe, whatever that may entail...." One might call that, "The Human Struggle."

I think also we would benefit from regular screenings of the movie, "Soylent Green," as we edge closer and closer to its realities every day.

As I have often said, I am not an optimist. I persist against discouragement, but I am not optimistic.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 02:33 PM

And understand, please, that in real life (not aggregate and opportunistically manipulated statistics) one actually NEEDS somewhere between 200% and 250% of the federal poverty level to just barely meet BASIC needs.

    Ain't talking cable tv. Ain't even talkin' old computer. Ain't talkin' money for the kids to go on school field trips. Ain't talkin' stewmeat or whole fryer chicken. Not talkin' fresh veggies or fruit. I'm talking day-old thriftshop bread. I'm talking worn-out clothes that don't fit from Goodwill. I'm talking shutting off the heat everywhere but the living room and bedding down the kids in the floor there for the winter. I'm talking about no money to buy a $10.00 window fan for when it is 95 degrees day after day in a third floor flat.

    I don't think we actually can design programs that will end poverty, though we can work in that direction. I understand that poverty is a multifaceted, complex matrix of personal and societal choices. I don't believe in Utopia. However level the playing field, the people on it are going to differ in their talents, strengths and resources. There are and will be winners and losers. But widespread malnutrition, homelessness and lack of minimally adequate healthcare do not have to exist in this country.

We really and truly did have a social safety net in this country. The weaving of it started with the New Deal. It was adequately but not excessively completed during the time of Johnson's Great Society. During the time of the Reagan administration, threads started being cut, and has been steadily unravelled since then, whether the Democrats or the Republicans were in power.

I blame the politicians, yes. But I also blame the voting public who has let it continue, from ignorance,denial,undocumented assumptions, fear and plain old selfishness.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 01:27 PM

Goodonya, Janie!! We are more than willing to pay more, too, in order for others to have basic needs met. I think you would be very interested in listening to yesterday's edition of "Colorado Matters" on our NPR station. It is available online: CLick Here and scroll down to Wednesday, Feb 1, Homelessness I and II. I haven't heard the second part, but the first one dealt with a lot of what is being talked about here, including health care, housing, childcare, job training, etc. Both programs feature women who are at the head of ending homelessness in Denver and Philadelphia through direct actions and compassion.

I just got an alert on how poor people are also being thwarted by the IRS. One may find more by doing a search on google, but here is the gist, from Jan. 10th:

"The Internal Revenue Service freezes tens of thousands of tax refunds it deems questionable without telling people that they're suspected of fraud, the nation's taxpayer advocate said Tuesday."

75% of those people effected by this are at poverty level according to the study.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 12:16 PM

Janie, Crystal, you're my kinda guys! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 12:08 PM

SH--when you actually know what you are talking about, come on back in. Like so many other "I've got mine" people, you operate from false assumptions and beliefs with no first hand knowledge or experience on which to base your opinion. You buy into the myth of the lazy, unworthy poor. Guess what? The poor are just like the rest of us, with the same mix of virtues and vices that you find in any other segment of the population.

Do you know what "disabled" means? It means not able to work.

Do you know what full time employment means? It means a person is working full-time. How many housekeepers, bodyshop repairmen, waitresses, cooks, nurses aides, landscape employees, custodians, dental assistants, Dr. Office receptionists, sales clerks, make enough money to pay the rent on the 25 year old 12x60 trailer with rotten floors,, the utilities, the car payment, the insurance, the property taxes, the food, the dental care, the $100 a month prescription, and the transmission replacement when it goes on the cheapest car they could find to get to and from work. (Guess what, low cost mass transit exists in very few places in this country.) Train 'em for better jobs? What if their IQ is below 90? What if they have medical problems that limit their ability to do manual or physically demanding work? And if they all did get trained up to make even $40,000 a year--then who provides all those services that they were providing?

YOU DO NOT GET IT!

If you are a single individual who worked and worked hard and was pretty well paid, and then became disabled when you were 30 or 35 years old, you are going to draw $800 to $1000 a month on disability.

You are not going to be able to live within your means, because that money won't cover basic needs. What should that person eliminate? Running water? Heat? Antipsychotic medications? Food? Should they give up the substandard housing that still cost $600 to $800 a month in the part of the country in which I live?

I SAY, AND I SAY IT LOUDLY that when people in this country are NOT ABLE (not ABLE--get it?)TO FEED THEMSELVES OR THEIR KIDS, WHEN THEY CAN NOT GET BASIC HEALTH CARE, WHEN THEY CANNOT KEEP THE UTILITIES ON, not because of scarcity and not because of lack of 'want to', that I don't give a rat's ass about who pays more than their 'fair share.' I will gladly pay more than my 'fair share.' And what about the kids of the parents without the want to? Let 'em starve--sins of the fathers and all that?

What is wrong with you! And with millions like you.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Snoozer
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:53 AM

The last line of the article that Janie provided a link to says that this bill also "provides up to $1.5 billion to help some consumers buy converter boxes so existing televisions do not go dark after the transition." (the transition being to mandatory digital service).

So don't worry, you might lose your life-saving prescriptions, but you won't lose your TV service!

Snoozer (shaking her head at the absurdity of it all...)

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:49 AM

Give serving Congressfolk the same benefits as all other Federal employees. Pay them the prevailing wage in their home district, with any raise to be approved by the people in their home district.

Then make them move to the home district and telecommute to work.

Move the Whitehouse to the geographical center of the US and distribute the various agencies around the country. They can telecommunicate. Political appointees would be paid the prevailing wage in the district, civil service would make current civil service wages.

What's the problem? The costs couldn't be much more than we're paying now, and it would be a one-time expense.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:47 AM

"Evidently, they weren't listening on the day they taught that if you don't have it then you can't spend it." susu's hubby

Guess our government wasn't listening that day either, huh.

SH, there are a LOT of factual errors and misperceptions in your screed but I'm learning to save ammunition for when it might make a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Crystal
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:24 AM

Put up the tax on tobacco, Junk food and alcohol as well as petrol. Also make people pay a one off tax when they buy a car, then tax any upgrades they want to make, after all those are four big killers.

Of course you could always try taxing big buisnesses rather that allowing them to tell you that you owe them money! I guess that one is a bit too revolutionary though!

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:24 AM

"Martin, that's what leaders are elected to do: care for all the citizens of a country."

I couldn't agree more with that statement. But what does the word "care" actually insinuate?

To provide opportunities so that these people have ways of pulling themselves out of the situation that they're in or to just keep throwing money at them in hopes that they will somehow be motivated to get up and start making lives better for themselves.

If we decide to raise taxes and just give them the money then nothing will be accomplished. They will just be complacent to sit on their butts and wait for the check to come in each month.

If taxes need to be raised, which I don't believe they need to be, then let's invest the money corporately so that the country's businesses will invest them in a way to increase the labor needs and provide even more high paying jobs than what's already available right now.

The fact that the piece in the news yesterday that according to spending statistics people are spending more than they're making is just telling me that even though consumer confidence is high, many people are living beyond their means.

If people are making the conscience choice of living beyond their means because Billy wants a new game system or Sally wants to stay with the current fashion, then why raise my taxes because of the bad spending decisions that another family decides to make for themselves?

If we need to raise taxes then let's not only invest it corporately but let's use part of it for education to teach Economics 101 to the masses that are currently living beyond their means. Evidently, they weren't listening on the day they taught that if you don't have it then you can't spend it.

Let's stop throwing good money after bad and if it needs to happen then let's invest it wisely instead of just increasing a monthly welfare check.

We would insulting them far more by doing that instead of continuing to provide opportunities for them to better themselves.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:12 AM

Easy-peasy. Put $5 per gallon tax on petrol (that'll bring the pump price up to roughly the same as we pay in the UK) and use it to pay for a proper healthcare system which doesn't rely on an individual's personal wealth, and where anyone who needs treatment gets it free at the point of delivery.

Hopefully it'll get rid of a lot of penis-subsitute SUVs and reduce pollution at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:17 AM

Janie, looks to me like your voice is emerging.... onto the public scene. And who knows where THAT may lead! [hmmmm.... reflect]

You go, girl!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:16 AM

"But do you have any solution other than just ranting about a problem that everyone knows is real?"

Martin, that's what leaders are elected to do: care for all the citizens of a country.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 09:56 AM

Exactly, Kaleea.

And are you among the many who had to get a lawyer to finally get your disability? Who had to wait 2 to 3 years, unable to work, getting deeper and deeper into debt, perhaps losing your home, your car, etc., before you finally began to receive your disability? Are you one of those people who do not have family with enough resources to have provided a safety net?

And now that you have the disability, can you live on it and just meet your basic needs, including medical care? Can you pay off the debt you had to get into, just to survive?

People, Kaleea's story is not the exception. It is the rule.

And it does not have to be this way.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Kaleea
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 12:28 AM

Since I was literally a kid, I worked. I paid taxes. 5 years ago next month, while minding my own business waiting at a red light, I was rear-ended. Due to that, I am now disabled. I went without medical for years, and now do not have a dr. My records were "lost" and the healthcare system cannot seem to find them anywhere, therefore, I would have to have all the tests & exams all over again for a dr to determine what has already been determined, much less start on a new avenue of treatment. A dr office will not accept "2nd hand" records from the office of my attorney.
I now have medicare, which does not pay for much. They find a way to not pay for most dr visits. There is a deductible. Then there is the fact that many drs won't take medicare because of the insane paperwork AND the fact that medicare will only pay a small predetermined portion of the dr fee. The RX coverage is a joke. To sum it up, I cannot afford to go to a dr. Therefore I am in horrendous pain everyday of my life. No dr will prescribe pain meds to me just because I say that all this has happened to me, they require tests to prove all of the injuries. Congress wants to
If medicaid could pay for the portions that medicare won't, then what is wrong with me having medicaid? Some people believe that "we" are living in freedom & equality in the USA, but some of us are less free than others.

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 12:11 AM

Does everyone know it is a problem that is real? If true, there sure are a lot of incredibly selfish, compassionless people in this country.

And I sure do have solutions. A few ideas are to raise taxes, including my own. I don't have much, but I can do with less than I have if it means some one else's child doesn't suffer from malnutrition. Get out of Iraq. Rearrange domestic spending priorities.   Work to change values so that 'conspicuous consumption' is no longer a virtue.

And you know what, Martin? Every day for the past 33 years I've gotten up, gone out, and worked hard to try to help find workable solutions. To find ways to help people to fill essential gaps. To help people try to learn the life skills they need to live and survive, if not to thrive. To link people with jobs, training, medical care, food resources, day care, elder care, burial expenses.

I don't need to read anybody else's handbook. I've got the knowledge, the skills, the training and the first-hand, front-line, up close and in person experience to know. I've read the research and the cost/benefit analyses about what works and what doesn't and I have seen that research ignored again and again. I have literally walked with people down their dying path because they could not get essential medical care where medical care is plentiful and world class for those who can afford it. I have gone out into the mall parking lots to try to assist families with young children living in cars and shelters because, in spite of working full time, they don't make a living wage and housing costs are inflated.

Have I solved the big problems? No. Do I have all the absolute answers? No. But a day at a time, a person or a family or an issue at a time, a meal or a month's rent at a time, have I participated in solutions?

You are damn straight I have.

I'm not about philosophy, Martin. I'm not about politics anymore than I have to be in order to try to see people not starve in the midst of plenty. I am about action, one on one. I am about looking for proactive ways to make a positive difference in the world one life at a time, if that is all I can effect. I put my money and my lifework where my mouth is. I'm not talking theory, little big man. I'm not talking petty little pissing matches with words.

Bug off.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 11:24 PM

But do you have any solution other than just ranting about a problem that everyone knows is real?

Perhaps you should look in your socialist handbook?

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 11:17 PM

Make that 'desperate'

(I can spell werds)

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 11:12 PM

The Bush Health Plan:

Don't Get Sick.

He must shop at Walmart.

SRS

Subject: BS: More Insult to the Poor
From: Janie
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 11:06 PM

I am outraged.

These Medicaid cuts are not frills. For 33 years I've worked with indigent populations. There is no longer a 'safety net' worthy of the name. Everyday I see families, including working families, and disabled individuals have to decide, "Do we eat, do we pay the rent, or do I get my insulin?" I have never witnessed such desparation and dispair.

PEOPLE IN THE USA ARE DYING BECAUSE THEY ARE POOR. And believe me, if your income is below the "poverty line" you are desparately poor.

Janie