BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:36 PM

Sorry Peace, but check this guys attacks on the Irish, every chance he's in here with the boot, funny that in with the boot! By Christ I will stand and defend the Provisionals to my death. What can he defend ? As you can see he found defence for their actions on this video, and swung it around to the Provo's. If he wants to start me he is going the right way about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:48 PM

Really don't know why there is so much talk about it, saw them and felt it often enough myself during their invasion of the North of Ireland.

Divis I hate to rain on your parade but your opening post shows who brought the provos into the discussion. Your agenda is transparent. Let it go. Move on. Everyone else has managed to.

And yes the video was appalling.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:53 PM

Occupations aren't good for anybody. They bring out the very worst in both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:56 PM

Guest where did I bring the Provisionals into the discussion ? As to the agenda you speak of, don't guess my mind please. Yes I did say saw it and felt it, because I did.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:59 PM

Ignore him Divis ... he'll just spin and spin ... some you can have a debate with and there's others just out there looking for a scrap regardless of the issue.

Peace ... that is Leutenant Calley .... now a owner of a jewelry stroe somewhere in Mississippi.

What ever happened to his C.O. Captain Medina?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:01 PM

And Guest, the name I use is my surname, no need to hide here. Regarding the psychology of thought, this is actually my profession.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:05 PM

By Christ I will stand and defend the Provisionals to my death.

There's no Christ in your stand.
The death was the death of the innocent killed by fanatics like yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:09 PM

You are right of course sIx, just attacks on the Provisionals here come without understanding of actually what we lived over here. This guy talks as if his army were angels. He has no conception of what we were put thought as people. His dislike of the Irish is born from newspaper articles. What I said to him on above post is not for the first time. How many times does he require the word sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:10 PM

Ernest Lou Medina left the army to move to Menomee, Michigan, where he worked in a helicopter manufacturing company owned by the defense lawyer in his court-martial, F. Lee Bailey.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:16 PM

GUEST, OR Coward as I think the name somehow fits better, don't try to talk about things you don't understand. Yes Proud of every soldier in the ranks of the PIRA. Oh dear you seem somewhat nasty in that little remark, I am so so upset. What you have to offer means so much, it's simply so important !

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:20 PM

I rather suspect that the main focus of the investigation will be on how something like that could have been video-taped and emerged into the public domain, rather on how it could happen in the first place. And the follow-up will be primarily aimed at stopping things like that getting out in future.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Epona
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:20 PM

I believe I'm sensing sarcasm in the air...

E

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:21 PM

I rather suspect that the main focus of the investigation will be on how something like that could have been video-taped and emerged into the public domain, rather than on how it could happen in the first place. And the follow-up will be primarily aimed at stopping things like that getting out in future.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:27 PM

Okay Divis. Apologies and sorry accepted. Now I'll try to relay it to my dead friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:58 PM

Peace ... What I found interesting in Captain Ernest Lou Medina was that he was an American Native .. Navajo, if my memory serves well.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Den
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 09:14 PM

I think you are very right McGrath.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 10:12 PM

Way too much focus on supporting the ENEMY.

No matter how much the discipline, faced with death by grenade, asses need to be kicked.

That is what you do with the ENEMY.

I can't believe how some whackos here feel we need to be ever so polite to them. I wouldn't want you fighting for any cause I believe in.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 10:32 PM

If you're a soldier in an occupying army you try to prevent them from doing harm, and you try to capture them; if need be you kill them. There's no point in kicking them about, and anyone who wastes their time and energy doing that kind of crap is just making it more dangerous for everyone, and helping the other side.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:00 AM

Unfortunately terrorists/insurgents/freedom fighters call them what you will, DO USE not only 'teenagers' but children to advance their cause, they are normally used as 'bait', they are normally used to create an incident, they are used to attract police, emergency services and security forces. The terrorist organisations in Sri Lanka, Palestine and Northern Ireland, all used children and teenagers in this way, so why should those in Iraq be any different, particularly those who might have done a bit of reading and are facing British Troops.

In Iraq the publishing/reporting of this incident will not affect anything, particularly not down in Basra, where this incident happened nearly two years ago. If anyone thinks that none of those Iraqi 'teenagers' complained or told anyone about what happened to them at the time, then they are being very niave. The 'whistleblower' as he is termed in the press did not bring this into the light of day for any high moral purpose, they sold it to the "News of the World" to make money, had the former been the case a copy of the recording should have gone to the Military Police long before now. By the way I do not believe that this is the sort of thing that would "shown in messes" anywhere.

What happened immediately before what is seen on this amateur video is important in terms of context. For a full understanding I also believe it will prove equally as important to study the overall situation in the area both before and after the incident shown.

From what I have seen, the Troops were not armed, they were carrying batons and shields, not guns. We have heard reported that the incident occurred during a riot in which a grenade had been thrown and that British Troops had been stoned.

SOP would be for nominated personnel present to observe the crowd, others would record in writing, or visually, the behavior of the crowd and how incidents develop. The reason for doing this is to identify those responsible for aggitating the crowd. Once identified, a snatch squad is organised and you go out into the crowd and grab them, that squad does not go out carrying arms, they are equipped as those shown in the video (Batons and Shields) So was this a snatch squad? I would tend to think that it was.

McGrath of Harlow, in his post of 13 Feb 06 - 10:32 PM says:

"you try to prevent them from doing harm" - now exactly how you do that in the middle of a riot situation, where you, as the soldier, are going to be heavily outnumbered, is something that maybe MGOH can explain but I cannot. One thing I can say is that in responding to that sort of situation you always deploy in such a way that those rioting know that they have a clear route to disperse, therefore maybe the prevention from doing harm comes in the form of letting them know that they can run away if necessary, it prevents escallation of the situation.

"you try to capture them" - I would agree with respect to the ring-leaders, the remainder, what are you going to charge them with? What are you going to do with them? Who are you going to use to look after them? Where are you going hold them? Sorry MGOH a pointless exercise, they will be back out on the streets rioting in next to no time, unless of course you are advocating indefinite internment for all and sundary.

"if need be you kill them" - Really, in the sort of situation that led to this incident definitely not, and there are very clear rules of engagement before anyone fires and when that happens first shots above the heads of the crowd, then deliberate fire at identified aggitators.

"There's no point in kicking them about, and anyone who wastes their time and energy doing that kind of crap is just making it more dangerous for everyone, and helping the other side." Well actually MGOH that is not exactly true, it is often extremely effective. Anyone ever heard anyone recall the "Good old days, when there was little or no street crime, where if some young tear-away was causing trouble the local beat bobby just took him aside and gave him a clip around the ear to straighten him out" Now the clip around the ear was generally a damn site more than that, whoever was causing the trouble got a bloody good hiding and it was clearly understood that if the behaviour did not alter then the dose would be repeated - it was called rough justice and it tended to work.

Latest is that a Corporal in the Light Infantry has been arrested and the matter is under investigation. I only ever had dealings with the SIB once, they do tend to be very thorough, unlike MGOH, I have no grounds for doubting that they will pursue this diligently and to the full letter of the law, but only time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:19 AM

"YES!!!! YOU'RE GOIN' TO GE' I' OHHHHH YEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!! OH PLEASE DON'T HURT ME"

You're all scum, Bill...

The very actions that gave birth to the Provisionals, Teribus, and ye're doing it all over again.
You and the rest of the Bushite excrement.

Anybody listening to 'The World Today' on BBC Radio 4 this morning???
... any early birds in the house today???

I'm sure the reportage will come around again, but 'apparently' the British Army ATTRACTS (... get this folks...) "Rambo Types"

Sure I could have told you that.

What d'ya reckon, Terri-boy...
You a "Rambo Type"???

Oh no... Teribus puts his charges into a darkened room, takes their watches off, leaves them for a half an hour (to contemplate their 'sorry state', no doubt, and then calmly talks to them.

Ain't that right, Bill?

Guess that's what they're at in Gitmo, eh?

As for the rest of the Doubting Tommys among you (Doubting Yanks can be freely included here as well...).....

Do you know how naive you really are????

I, and I'm sure the rest of us who experienced your version of Law & Order and 'Hearts & Minds' can predict the future of the 'Allies' in an area 10 billion times the size of the sickly six...

".... the behavior of the crowd and how incidents develop."

What's this, Teribus?
Turning American, are you?

Whatever about two wrongs not making a right, I can tell you from experience that one wrong makes even less of a right.

As for Gibson... Got 3 words for you, ol buddy
'Nineteen Sixty-nine Borders'

Piss off back to them and then talk about World Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:25 AM

'Nineteen Sixty-seven Borders'

(... had a strange vision of Teribus & Gibson giving each other a blow-job....)

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:42 AM

Divis Sweeney,
I responded as I did because an ex volunteer of PIRA is in no position to pontificate on how other organisations treat prisoners.

Had you used one of your Guest aliases I would have let it go, but such hypocrisy is hard to stomach.

Yes, the British had to stop using white noise when it was defined as torture.

Were you personally involved in interrogating prisoners Sweeney?
The usual strategy was to torture them until they were ready to confess, film their confession and then shoot them.
Is that not why the bodies were left covered in burns, or were they just incredibly careless with their last cigarette?

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:54 AM

.... we're talking about the Brits in Iraq, Keith...

Why are you (and the rest) crying over spilt milk?

Ye are ripping the cow's tit wide open over there, and all you want to relive and complain about old defeats.

HAA-LLO!

Wake up, Keith.
It's Tuesday

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:10 AM

... and may the light and warmth of a peaceful valentines day be with you all...

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:15 AM

... except in Chicago...

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:16 AM

And may you never lose your lover overnight

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:18 AM

Keith please prove I tortured anyone. Please also provide evidence I have ever come onto this site using Guest aliases. Stop making silly remarks unless you can back them up. Only makes you look foolish.

Teribus, saw British troops gather children on many occasions as cover walking through certain areas of Belfast with the lure of sweets. You forgot to add that one.

As to your remark about torture using cigarettes, glad you brought that up.
In 1976 I won my case against the British government for ill treatment and wrongful arrest, and yes you guessed it, the scars from the cigarette burns inflicted by British soldiers on my right arm and the photographic evidence along with their admission won my case.

This thread is about British soldiers kicking lumps out of children in Iraq. You have yet again failed to bring anything to the thread, so try either the one on babies names or bird watching.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:25 AM

making accusations that a mudcat member was involved in torture without proof is about as low as anyone can go. I an ashamed to say you are British Keith. So sad. You are not doing us any favours.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:31 AM

I just aked if you had been a torturer Sweeney.
I notice that you do not say that you were not.
Supppose your CO had ordered you to. Would you have refused?
Did you ever speak out against IRA torture?
Did anyone ever win compensation from your mob for ill treatment?

Tir, this thread is about Iraq but how can we not comment when it is a proud ex member of a notorious user of torture who is professing outrage at an offence trivial in comparison?

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:35 AM

"troops gather children on many occasions as cover ... with the lure of sweets"

Hmmm, such TV footage was always meant to show just how nice the troops were...

Makes me think sometimes, does Mudcat...

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:36 AM

Guest, aking a question is not an accusation.

The question is not unreassoble because Divis Sweeney has boasted on this site of his status as a PIRA volunteer, and they did routinely use physical torture and execution.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: David C. Carter
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:42 AM

Nice Thought Foolestroupe...

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:45 AM

Eye Rack, Keith.

The Resistance has disbanded as far as the security of your country is concerned.

We can draw attention to British torture around the World if we so desire.

Your Country's human rights record is atrocious by anyone's standards, and still you concentrate on what should be (for you) a long-forgotten war.

The actions of your soldiers has added about 10 million barrels of oil to an already blazing inferno.

There are none so blind as those who will not see, Keith.

...You also have your '"La la la, I'm not listening" headphones' on again, 'aven't yew?

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:26 AM

Keith why are you making up these slurs against me ?
Never once did I say I tortured anyone. Never once did I make a boast of my status within the PIRA. I am a Republican and proud of it. All I can guess is you lack something within yourself and never made a committment to anything in your life that involved taking a stand. That shortfall can visit a man in his later years.

So here is your answer Keith, no I never tortured anyone in my life.

Regarding your remark about a C O. The British Army have C O'S. The Provisional IRA had O C'S.The difference being they feel no man has a right to make an order over another man. Officer in command. So within that is your answer.

So was the British soldiers right to kick and punch these Iraqi youth's then ? or is that going back to a question you try so hard not to reply to.

Really have shown yourself up here for what you are.
Still awaiting the proof of me being involved in torture or arriving on the site under another name as you so clearly stated.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:32 AM

"...and that British Troops had been stoned."
Teribus: 14 Feb 06 - 01:00 AM

I too hope the practice of drug abuse in the Armed Forces is highlighted as well, Teribus, old skin.

"In Iraq the publishing/reporting of this incident will not affect anything, particularly not down in Basra, where this incident happened nearly two years ago"
Teribus: 14 Feb 06 - 01:00 AM

You're really full of it today, Teribus, aren't you?
"Camberwick Green", I am tempted to utter.

Don't forget the little matter of a bunch of cartoons, and a shit-load of water having passed under the bridge.

Stop the damage limitation, Teribus.

It makes you look foolish

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:37 AM

Sweeney,
Why are you making up slurs against me, by saying I made up slurs against you?
I only asked the question, and have already justified the asking of it.

Are you now saying that you never were a volunteer in PIRA????

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:40 AM

...and no, I do not think it was right for those youths to be beaten, as I said in my very first post.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:42 AM

Keith how many times do you require this guy to say sorry to you ??????????

Doubt I would be as tolerant as he is if you were attacking me with such remarks.

You are clearly an anti Irish bigot, probably vote BNP and proud of the actions of your soldiers actions serving abroad. Were you a soldier ?

Read on the web as I just did. The I.R.A. ended their war last July and now they don't bomb or shoot people. What do you want here, all past I.R.A. men and woman to receive a public hanging ?

Go visit one of your BNP sites and relive your glorious history there.

No one likes listening to boring people who trawl through the past to seek revenge.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:44 AM

Keith?

Tell me this.

Can you justify the example of cruelty shown by The British Army?
Are you proud to have witnessed such footage?

(... you are British, aren't you...?)

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:49 AM

... from Keith's 1st post...:

"The video shows a lapse in discipline. Shameful."

How do you know it was a lapse in discipline it showed, Keith?
Is 'shameful' the height of it?

Because it is as much as you've said on the subject so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:52 AM

How worried are you, Keith, that this is not an 'isolated incident', for example?

... oh, I've got loads of questions for you, me bhoy...

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:53 AM

From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:36 AM

The question is not unreassoble because Divis Sweeney has boasted on this site of his status as a PIRA volunteer.

From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:42 AM

Divis Sweeney,
I responded as I did because an ex volunteer of PIRA is in no position to pontificate on how other organisations treat prisoners.

Had you used one of your Guest aliases I would have let it go, but such hypocrisy is hard to stomach.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:31 AM

I just aked if you had been a torturer Sweeney.
I notice that you do not say that you were not.

Keith Please state your reason for looking to know what role I took or didn't take during the occupation of my country by your army.
The reason will need to be a valid one and have some bearing to the title of this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:55 AM

What is blame, and how is it accreditted?

(... note that I said 'IS' and not 'SHOULD BE'...)

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:58 AM

Come on, Keith.. chop-chop, we're waiting....

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Pandora
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:01 AM

Oh no..., please don't open me...

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:01 AM

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:

Had you used one of your Guest aliases I would have let it go.

Please clarify this Keith. Strong remark to make against a member.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Sisyphus
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:03 AM

I hope they invent the wheel soon....

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:04 AM

Doubt he will answer GUEST, he just fired these remarks and then tryes to bite then back with some foolish reponse.

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,The Grand Old Duke of York
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:09 AM

Where are we now, chaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Video of British Soldiers in Iraq
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:09 AM

100 is the new 100