BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!

Subject: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Alba
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:21 PM

I was just wondering. After the Mudcat probs over the weekend and the giggles that where exchanged between those who could get in and those who couldn't, I got a familiar feeling of the old BS Mudcat exchanges and it was great.
No abuse, No constant top 5 threads, refreshed daily and nightly, rehashing the same old nasty blah! Sick of the sight of some of them in particular now and don't even open them.

So I am really asking the folks in the know here on the Mudcat. namely y'all. What has happened and more importantly when did the fun disappear! Now when an attempt is made to lighten things up it gets beaten down, not all the time but a good portion of the time.
Curious as to why this has happened.
Anyone else feel this way or am I just nuts (don't answer the latter please:)

Love and Light
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:30 PM

Visit MOAB.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:34 PM

Your last request, not to address nuttiness, may be the answer, Alba!!

The answer can be, I think, summed neatly: the fun of the Cat rises and falls in inverse proportion to the number of ad hominem slurs posted. If you find periods when all those who posted were paying more attention to being funny, insightful, honest, comapssionate or informative than they were to be defensive or atagonistic to various viewpoints, you'll find the fun times when creative juices flowed. Sure, there were some extremely humourous putdowns but they were usually given and accepted in a spirit of banter and goofiness, not in a spirit of attack and nullify.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:50 PM

Stay above the Bullshit line and Mudcat can be a very useful tool.... a tool full of know-it-all blaggarts who think they shit sunshine...

But what did you expect from the internet?

There are some very few who make this place worth wild... As with all things in life, the trick is finding them...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Janie
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:51 PM

As for me, I'm just getting old and cranky;>)

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Janie
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:52 PM

I agree Clinton. Wild can be worth alot!

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 02:16 PM

Just hunt around. There are so many threads it's easy to miss the fun.

It's a pity that some people always seem to try to turn discussions and arguments into slanging matches, and even more of a pity that others fall into the trap of getting into that same game. But even so, more often than not, there is still a real argument going alongside those kinds of post. I don't think we should feel it necessary to shy off from exploring our differences just because some fools are squaring up for a fight.

Otherwise we end up like those pubs where they try to have a ban on people talking about anything controversial, like politics or religion or even sport, and the weather is about the only thing left. And not even that, in these days of global warming and
consequent disasters.

And you don't in fact avoid controversy and aggro just by sticking to the music threads here.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 02:48 PM

These are not happy times, and there's no Rick Fielding.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 02:56 PM

Oh, I reckon it's the same answer it's always been, Alba-- too many people failing to appreciate the nuances of the community when they first wander in, and changing it before they realize they've done that. (Then wondering, later, why the next batch of newbies "don't get it.")

The rest of the answer is the same as ever, too-- all anyone really can do is to do what you, yourself, can do, to set the tone you'd like to be able to enjoy here. And leave the rest to those who like what they are creating. It's the nature of the medium and of human beans, that's all.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:01 PM

Well, I find many of these threads very entertaining, informative and provocative (to say the least!). Keep tuned in...as a relative newcomer, it's still all here--in spades!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:02 PM

It's not like Rick was the only meritorious poster on Mudcat.....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:06 PM

I was away for 4 weeks due to a minor fatal encounter.
It seems the same here as always, perhaps you have changed...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Alba
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:15 PM

Maybe so Donuel, maybe so.....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:20 PM

It is not the same as it was several years ago. It is a microcosm of the State of Fear, which we see in the world. A lot of fear, acrimony, etc. and people who feel compelled to vent those feelings. The friendliness and helpfullness we used to see are still here, but not as evident. The fun is scarce compared to pre-Bush days.

I take some of the blame for having started the first "BushWhacked" thread, after his election. BS used to be stories, sharings, games,a nd FUN. Now, it is mostly political sniping.

I know what you mean, Alba...the Help Foruum, over the weekend, was a wee glimpse of what we've lost. It was also a faint glimmer of Hope.

If everyone would take a deep breathe, try to exercise friendly manners and give each other the benefit of the doubt, it would help.

I also agree with GUEST...Rick's influence is missing and has made a considerable difference in the tone of the place, as has the absence of those who are still alive, but not posting as much...

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:33 PM

Nothing can stay the same, nor should it. With free expression and opportunity to share ideas, you have to expect that the tone will change.   With success comes new members (and guests) and with that the tone will change. There is no sense in keeping a segregated country club feel to the place. You can't keep the old lightbulb forever!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Alba
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:38 PM

I don't think the Mudcat now or at anytime in the past has had a Segregated Country Club feel to it:)
but it is an interesting perspective!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:41 PM

WISH A BUCK WAS STILL SILVER
(ARE THE GOOD TIMES REALLY OVER)
Merle Haggard


Wish a buck was still silver.
It was, back when the country was strong.
Back before Elvis; before the Vietnam war came along.
Before The Beatles and "Yesterday",
When a man could still work, and still would.
Is the best of the free life behind us now?
Are the good times really over for good?
Are we rolling down hill like a snowball headed for hell?
With no kind of chance for the Flag or the Liberty bell.
Wish a Ford and a Chevy,
Could still last ten years, like they should.
Is the best of the free life behind us now?
Are the good times really over for good?

I wish coke was still cola,
And a joint was a bad place to be.
And it was back before Nixon lied to us all on TV.
Before microwave ovens,
When a girl still cooked and chopped wood.
Is the best of the free life behind us now?
Are the good times really over for good?

Are we rolling down hill like a snowball headed for hell?
With no kind of chance for the Flag or the Liberty bell.
Wish a Ford and a Chevy,
Could still last ten years, like they should.
Is the best of the free life behind us now?
Are the good times really over for good?

One more time:

Stop rolling down hill like a snowball headed for hell?
Stand up for the Flag and let's all ring the Liberty bell.
Let's make a Ford and a Chevy,
Still last ten years, like they should.
'Cos the best of the free life is still yet to come,
The good times ain't over for good?

Let's sing it again.

Stop rolling down hill like a snowball headed for hell?
Stand up for the Flag and let's all ring the Liberty bell.
Let's make a Ford and a Chevy,
That'll still last ten years, like they should.
'Cos the best of the free life is still yet to come,
An' the good times ain't over for good?




Some of the old days weren't really all that good.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:44 PM

PS Nostalgia just ain't what it usta be.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:44 PM

Nor all that old....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Windsinger
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:54 PM

Some of the old days weren't really all that good.

Good point, Peace. :)

The thickest rose-colored glasses in the world can't convince me that the 70's were fun to grow up in (OR that the clothes were cool.)

Slán,

~F

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Gurney
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:54 PM

Donuel, what is a 'minor fatal encounter'? Is that when it is the other poor bastard that gets killed?

I miss jOhn. A lot of the fun for me was his threads.
Another victim of profligate curry, and core discardment.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:58 PM

Maybe the wrong choice of words - certainly there is nothing racist about Mudcat, but I think you know what I mean. We do not want to be a clique or a handful of friends that feed off each other.

While there are detractors, overwhelming I get a spirit of openness and welcome here at Mudcat. I think we want to see more people posting notes and sharing opinions. You have to take the good with the bad.   

Windsinger said something on another post (after I foolishly posted some comments that were taken out of the context I intended) about people respecting one another. THAT may be missing these days.   We tend to get caught up in our own opinions that we fail to listen to others.

I've also noticed that the people who post the most negative comments seem to be looking for opportunities to make snide comments. It comes across as if they are just dealing with some inadequacy (like my spelling) and have some sick need to snap at others.   

As my mother used to say, you take the good with the bad and make the best of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:01 PM

"We do not want to be a clique or a handful of friends that feed off each other"

Too late....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:01 PM

Katlaughing

The Holy Grail: You see the violence inherent in the system, you see the violence inherent in the system...

Silliness with a grain of truth is here as always but with knowledge and wisdom comes respondsibility. Grounded fear is in fact a good thing. For example the bird flu H5N1 will be in the United States within weeks and there are precautions one should take.

As for the fear tactics of a repressive regieme one can only agitate, agitate, agitate and act with defiance when prudent. It would not surprise me in the least if coments by people here have landed them on the no fly list (its not just for terrorists anymore).

your friend , giggles the patriot.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:03 PM

Gotta tell ya that the 1950s weren't all that great at times.

I disagree with the premise of this thread, although I have the greatest admiration and respect for the gal who started it. There are many threads that have 'fun' in them. However, political threads tend to get hot, fast. As do religious threads. As do 'race' threads. The world is becoming polarized, much more so than I have seen in the past. However, there as still many kind and thoughtful people around the 'cat, and that's a truth. I suppose we can all look to halcyon times in our lives and feel that nothing again will match them. And we can make sure that that becomes a self-fulfilling thing.

Rick was deservedly a well-respected, well-loved guy around this place. However, there are other people who have done as much with intent as good. I think it is unkind to his memory to assume that his legacy of caring died with him. It didn't IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Windsinger
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:20 PM

Peace, can you fill me in some more?

I've frequented the site for about six or seven years, but 99.9% of the time it was just to quietly plunder the DT for lyrics, and only
V E R Y sporadically to interact in the Forum. (Until recently. Blame cabin fever.)

So there was a time the B.S. threads weren't dominated by inflammatory rhetoric posted by folks specifically trolling for a fight?

Not that there's anything wrong with healthy debate; but people are people, and hot-button topics have a way of stankifyin' the general goodwill very quickly. This happens often enough by accident, when it's not actively encouraged by folks who are the conversational equivalent of arsonists (i. e., pour the gasoline, light the match, stand back and salivate with glee.)

Seriously. A quick glance inside a couple of those threads was enough to make me want to shower for hours.

Slán,

~F

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:22 PM

I know there has to be change. But, not at the hands of a few bullies. There are so many who do not post anymore because of them. There are those who just don't think it is worth it as they can count on being denigrated, and personally attacked. Some of us can take it, others cannot. I cannot count the number of emails and PMs I have received from those who made the Mudcat the FUn that it was AND CAN BE, who just don't post anymore because of the rancorous miasma of crap that hangs over it. (I know some don't post anymore because their 3D lives have become so busy.)

A roll call of just a few might be a good reminder:

Spaw
Lonesome EJ
BSeed (Chas. Kratz.)
Night Owl
Banjo Bonnie
Alison in Oz
Animaterra
annamil
Bill Sables
Marymac
JenEllen
Mark Cohen
Aine
Auxiris
Amergin
Banjer
Bearheart
BlueJay
Brendy
Bugsy
Dave Swan
Firecat
Deckman
mygurualwayssaid
Guy Wolf
Animaterra

and, many others.

With all good wishes,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:23 PM

"there was a time the B.S. threads weren't dominated by inflammatory rhetoric posted by folks specifically trolling for a fight?"

Not that I've seen, in the time that I've been here....

Wanna see Mudcats true colours?

Start a "What is Folk Music" thread.... all the fuckwits will come out to play....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:24 PM

I think many folks will be willing to fill you in, Windsinger. I am certainly not qualified--although I appreciate you asking.

I am one of the more unreasonable posters here: been banned before and cut off a few times. There are people I just won't ever reason with (I'd rather tell them to fuck off--racists, Nazis, religious fanatics. Just the way it is for me. So, basically, I'm the wrong guy to ask.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:24 PM

Also, JustaPicker!!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:30 PM

Well I miss JOhn from Hull seriously. I used to come to Mudcat just to see what he had to say! But you know there are still jokes to be had. I do find a lot depressingly offensive though.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Windsinger
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:32 PM

There are people I just won't ever reason with

Well, a calm and reasonable dialogue, takes TWO people willing to be calm and reasonable. The three categories you cite are not well-known for producing shining beacons of either qualities.

You cannot really talk sense with someone who abides by the principal, "if you're losing, shout louder."

Slán,

~F

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:37 PM

Shes got a list and shes collecting names!!! ;)

All kidding aside its a good list

Mortality has a way of setting priorities more than being intimidated by nameless internet "bullies". Actually I think most people would see the trolls as cowards more than bullies.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:37 PM

Oh... so you've read the "What is folk music" threads already then?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:40 PM

Cross post....


Repost for clarity...
"someone who abides by the principal, "if you're losing, shout louder."
Oh... so you've read the "What Is Folk Music" threads already then eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Windsinger
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:41 PM

Wow. :D You're bringing out my mischievous streak, Clinton. Should I start one?

(Not a fan of inciting gratuitous flame-wars, even if it's IN the name of science. But you're definitely piquing my curiosity. lol)

Slán,

~F

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: number 6
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:43 PM

If it wasn't 'fun' I wouldn't keep coming back.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: number 6
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:44 PM

"Gotta tell ya that the 1950s weren't all that great at times."

... either were the 1960's.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:45 PM

I remember reading one once, but that was a long time ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Severn
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:52 PM

I just see it as a temporary shortage of good straight lines to play off of. It'll be back. Maybe someone needs to set the proper bait.
Maybe we should hold an Annual Fun Raiser.....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:06 PM

Willie-O
Banjer
Crowhugger
Billy the Bus
MattR


none of the ones I listed have passed on, that I know of...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: gnomad
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:20 PM

I can't claim to be one of those addressed by the opening post (the folks in the know here on Mudcat) but I think that Kat would count as one such.

I agree with her that (translating rather freely) the malaise here may be reflecting a change in society as a whole. There are nuggets of the old spirit around, they just aren't as plentiful.

In Kat's later post there is a heck of a list of those that might be seen as gone missing. That is a loss to each of them, but a bigger loss still to the 'cat. Have they been driven away? Doubtless some will have found newer or more pressing activities, but I would guess that a fair few have just decided to fade away as agression has made the site less congenial.

Spaw and JOhn from hull9 were particular favourites of mine, but I miss others too....Aargh, the list is growing as I type...stop it will you, it is more than flesh and blood can take. I promise to be nicer, will that do? OK, I will smile too, but I can't give up the puns.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:39 PM

"I would guess that a fair few have just decided to fade away as agression has made the site less congenial"

Could it be that when Mudcatter had fewer members, it APPEARED to be more congenial?   I have been visiting this site, daily, for a number of years.   I think there were always a few that would bicker and instigate fights and what we see today merely reflects the increased number of people who visit this site.

I came from a very quiet family with most of my relatives living in Pennsylvania. My parents came from large families and there always seemed to be one or two aunts and uncles who weren't talking to each other. I remember being at a family gathering and watching two aunts get into a shouting match because one person did not like the way the other made the coffee. All kinds of past history was dragged up over an innocent comment. They did not speak to each other for years. Most of the time, people just watched what they said and the gatherings were quiet and often boring affairs.

My wife came from a large Jewish family from Brooklyn. I was amazed at the level of noise at one of the first gatherings I went to. People were laughing and joking and telling each other what they thought. They did not like something, they let it be known - often punctuated by a joke. No one took offense. No one was angry with anyone.

Honestly, I see many people here on Mudcat having very thin skin and letting themselves become upset at piddly things.   If you know someone is a jerk, you do not have to embrace them, just understand what they are and move on. Instead, people here become combative and look for a fight - both sides.   Usually one person feels that they were slighted and drop out of sight, rarely to be heard from again.

Mudcat is not a family, it should not replace a family, but it can be a friendly and fun site if YOU approach it with the right attitude. You aren't going to change someones mind or approach to others - they come here with established patterns.   Accept it for what it is, find the joy that STILL exists here, and enjoy yourself.   Don't worry about the jerks. They eventually get tired and drop out of sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:48 PM

You know what? I was thinking the exact same thing Alba..... maybe we should start a 'where have all the sillies gone' thread....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:00 PM

OK, I give up.
What IS folk music?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:02 PM

Well said, gnomad. I think you nailed it. Thanks.

Ron, I am surprised, because I know you've been here a fair amount of time. Yes, we had bickering and the occassional crap from the like of gargoyle and others, but I do not for a minute believe it just APPEARED to be more congenial. Folks just plain were nicer, less likely to take or give offence. I remember we even used acronyms a lot more to make sure folks knew we were were just joking as in **BG** (Big Grin); NOI (no offence intended), etc. And, most signed off with some kind of good wishes.

Maybe it is partly ebcause there are so many new folks, but I don't think we can blame it on them; most seem like good folk. There are a few who post as themselves, and, I am sure, as guests, at times, who always seem compelled to bring others down, stir the pot, flame, troll, whatever you want to call it. They are consistent and if Rick were still here, he'd give you a breakdown of their times, styles, etc. as he delighted in studying posting habits, language used, etc.

Almost makes me long for the days when garg was all we had watch for.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Windsinger
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:03 PM

What IS folk music?

ACKpht!

:::diving into foxhole:::

NOW you've done it!

Slán,

~F

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:20 PM

I'll tell ya where the fun has gone, eh? The fun has gone to Sudbury. That's right, you heard me. Laura...the only $20 hooker in my town of Blind River...has moved to the big city of North Bay. This is not good news for Blind River! I expect that the local ecomony will be hit bad, eh? Most hookers charge way flippin' more than $20! That is becoz of inflation and probally becoz of the Liberal party too, eh? They take a cut on every workin' girl's trade, the bastards! If ya want fun in Blind River now, be flippin' preaiired to pay through yer flippin' nose, man. The salad days are over.

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:29 PM

Hey!! It's right over HERE!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where the Fun has gone!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:30 PM

j0hn was the only person who made me spit coffee on the keyboard. But some people maoned about him. Can't please everyone.