BS: Scent Free Environment

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:39 PM

some peoples heads are twisted so far up their arses..

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:44 PM

Raptor, read up on the problem. It is not just being annoyed by the smell. I would not work in a coal mine if I were allergic to coal, I probably would not work at Red Lobster if I were allergic to seafood (although you do not have to eat it to work there), and I would not be a lifeguard if I were allergic to the sun.

Now, what does any of that have to do with a ban on chemical fragrances? This is an involuntary "exposure" where as the other cases you mentioned would be purposely putting yourself in danger.

If you read this carefully, it is not a case of a woman wearing too much Chanel.

People can make jokes about it all they want, but this is a serious and unhealthy issue. READ!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:49 PM

ultimately democratic free societies need to resort to law and bans
to protect its population
from the ignorance and harmful behaviour of inconsiderate
willfully antagonistic shites
who cant be trusted to be let loose unregulated in public ..

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:55 PM

Punkrockfolker, I think the real problem is that people cannot place themselves in someone elses shoes.   Unless they can see and feel a problem for themselves, the problem just doesn't exist. To many on this thread, the problem is simply a joke - someone whining because they do not like the smell. Those people who really knows someone that suffers understand what it is about. Consideration appears to be something that is lacking. Witness this thread and you will see a number of people with pre-developed notions that won't listen to reason and refuse to read the research themselves.   

There will always be people who will insist that the sky is green.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:38 PM

Well, that's one thing I agree with you Ronny ... the sky certainly is not green. I took a photo of it a while back that proves you are right.

the sky is not green !

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:44 PM

Scent-free environment?

Yeah, Spaw hasn't been around in a while, has he?

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:46 PM

That is a great shot, sIx.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:55 PM

Yeah, thanks Peace ... taken with a telephoto from my back upper deck at the refinery across from Courtney Bay. Scarry eh.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Gurney
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:13 AM

I'm married to a woman who's allergic to perfume, the smell of petrol/gasoline and cigarette smoke.
I like the smell of all of them, particularly perfume, -on women, I hasten to add. Tough, eh?
Perhaps a lot of money should be spent on research into the cause of the allergies, not banning the triggers.

Here in Godzone there is a malady known as Taranaki 'flu, which seems to be a symptom of over-exposure to agricultural sprays. That might be a starting point.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:51 AM

"Than stand in the middle of a freeway shooting the tyres of every over indulgent pleb in a SUV going to pick up the cat from the vet..." That sounds like fun... can I play?

I used to work near a busy roundabout/flyover and was getting what amounted to an asthma attack a week. My bosses complained at the amount of time I was having off sick, but refused to move me when I asked for a transfer. When eventually they did move me (after a year of requests) to a library near a park and in a quieter road, my attacks vanished almost instantly. It has since turned out that I'm not actually asthmatic, but had an irregular heartbeat that was going too fast to spread oxygen around properly. However... I know it was the exhaust fumes from this extremely busy road junction that caused an allergic reaction. The more I coughed, the faster the heart beat, the faster the heart beat, the less oxygen to the lungs.... vicious circle.

The exact same thing happens when I walk through the doors of certain stores where the perfume counter is situated immediately inside. Even though my heart has been fixed, I still get the reaction. Perfume sellers have been banned from spraying into the air immediately in front of people, for that very reason. Some store was sued because a customer was sprayed without consent and had an asthma attack as a result. Now they ask if they can spray you. If only they would fit extractor fans....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:21 AM

1. If someone at work is sneezing, they might have a cold and be spreading germs, OR they might be reacting to someone else's perfume. (Either way, avoid them, but sending them home may not solve the problem.)

2. Laundry dries perfectly well without 'dryer sheets', they are totally unnecessary.

3. I bought a deodorant labelled as 'unperfumed'. When I got home and looked at it with my glasses on I found that the ingredients included 'parfum'. Beware!

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,Mingulay at work
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 08:36 AM

Small amounts of perfume are perfectly acceptable especially when detected whilst at close quarters with the wearer. Indeed, they serve to heighten and arouse certain other senses.

Scent, on the other hand, is something sold in Woolworths and best used for toning down the emanations from sewage works, and even then in very small amounts.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:41 AM

"Small amounts of perfume are perfectly acceptable especially when detected whilst at close quarters with the wearer."

Sorry, but that isn't true. The overwhelming majority of perfumes contain synthetic chemicals, many that are documented as hazardous by the EPA and other organizations. There are links to cancer, asthma, birth defects and disorders of the central nervous system.

Please, do a little research on this. It is easy to make statements like "there is no problem with wearing perfume" because we are all products of marketing that makes this appear to be innocent.

Years ago people would not think twice about throwing litter out of their cars. Today we have learned and most people would not do something so stupid. The idea of problems with scents is so foreign to people that they do not wish to take the time to really listen to what the problems can be.

No, you probably won't drop dead by splashing some Old Spice after shaving, but you do not know what that stuff can be doing to you or others around you.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,Wordless Woman
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:42 AM

Dear oh dear. This thread is getting a bit cranky. HOWEVER, I'm going to add my two cents and ask advice. Like Kaleea, I am allergic to fragrance and end up with a sinus infection. I DO avoid highly scented places: department stores, gift shops with scented candles, etc. I deal with my allergy as best I can.

Back in the day there used to be something called a zone of fragrance. In order to smell a woman's perfume one would have to be in very close proximity.

The problem is a new employee – new to my department but with the company for a few years. I have to give her an orientation this afternoon. I met her briefly the other day. One certainly does not have to be in close proximity to be overwhelmed by her perfume; it precedes her by several yards. It's a scent more appropriate to evening wear rather than the audit department.

How do I gracefully tell her to scale it back?

And the popcorn smell? I sit across from the kitchenette and just turn my desktop fan so it blows the air back in the kitchenette.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 09:55 AM

Wordless Woman - if you are this womans supervisor, you have to flat out tell her. It is not easy, but it is important to do it as soon as possible. I once had to tell an employee that his body order was offending people who worked in a very cramped control room with him. I would suggest finding as private a place as possible, and then speak openly and honestly. You can explain that people, like yourself, have a sensitivty to the chemicals in perfume and while there isn't a ban on wearing perfume in your office (I assume), it would be greatly appreciated if she cuts back on the perfume. If you are not her supervisor, I would suggest having a private conversation with her actual supervisor or HR person about this.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:25 AM

Ron I know this is no joke.
I am only saying if you can't handle the atmosphere in the bar you shouldn't play in that bar, then bitch that it was bad.

One of our fellow catters was whining about not liking the places he CHOSE to frequent, Than accused others of having thier heads up thier asses.

He also stated " ultimately democratic free societies need to resort to law and bans
to protect its population
from the ignorance and harmful behaviour of inconsiderate
willfully antagonistic shites
who cant be trusted to be let loose unregulated in public .. "

This is scarry. That people believe they need to inflict thier beliefs on others with laws because they think that people "Can't be trusted" To make wise choices for themselves!

I couldn't agree more that we need to stop the chemical poisioning of this planet and it's water supply with these unnessary additives. But we need to lesislate the discontinued use of these chemicals in the manufacturing stage. Not ban thier use by the consumers because some whining Punk is discomforted in the pubs he chooses to go to.

And the thought of the likes of said punk demanding Bans based on his "knowing better" than anyone else is downright insane!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:36 AM

Raptor, it appears that you have a personal gripe with punkrockfolker for things he said. I agree with you that people should not feel that their opinion and/or knowledge makes them superior to all others. Still, it appears that you are discrediting some of the things he is saying out of spite rather than reason.

If you agree that we need to legislate the use of these chemicals, you would probably agree that we need to regulate how and where they are used - if you read the information on what they can do. Whether it is the pub, a school or a hospital - should people inflict others?

As for his point about laws, I tend to agree with the spirit he is saying. After all, why do we need any laws if we trust people?

Punkrockfolker may not "know better" than anyone else here, but I do think in this case he knows some of the facts. Having two friends who knowingly suffer from this problem, I have seen how it can effect people. Now that we know a bit more about the makeup of these "scents" (something the perfume industry was reluctant to divulge for decades), we can make a few more educated decisions on how we are to use them.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:42 AM

hey ron..

imagine all the worse things you think i'd be likely to say to you in response..

then continue to make up to your own satisfaction
any version of the truth you desire..

..that seems to be the easiest way for you to interact with folks you dont know

and realities you fail to comprhend..

then slump quietly back into your default head twisted firmly in arse position..

cheers...

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:45 AM

OOPS !!!

muy fullest apologies to Ron.

I meant to address that last post to Raptor.

but must have suddenly been hit by a waft of over chemically fragrenced bullishit
which momentarily knocked me confused and senseless...


sorry Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:45 AM

An issue to be aware of is that, as most people age, their sense of smell (like most other senses) becomes less acute. An older woman will use more of her scent of choice because it takes more before she can smell it. An extract from this article says: By conservative estimates, 4 million Americans have sustained the complete or partial loss of the sense of smell, sometimes after a head injury, but more often as a result of aging or Alzheimer's disease. In fact, half of all people lose at least part of their sense of smell by age 65 and 75 percent do so by age 80, probably because of lower levels of key brain chemicals, repeated colds or cumulative exposure to toxins or medications. Other people, because of an injury or disease, will have their sense of smell become hyper-acute.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,Wordless Woman
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:46 AM

Ron, I am not this woman's supervisor, rather, the office manager. Going to the manager or HR is useless. There's an extraordinary lack of spine here and HR has been "outsourced". They're available only by email and most queries are returned with a response that the request is "complicated" and will require further research. I've found, to my cost, that research can take years!

The new girl is bigger than me. Hope she doesn't beat me up.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:48 AM

and thanks also Ron for such well articulated voice of reason in this thread

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 11:05 AM

Btw Raptor..

its not superiority i'm feeling or aspiring to..

just plain old fashioned justifable anger and resentment..

fueling a hope for positive enlightened social progress

[re; health issues i have real world experience and knowledge of]


.. so whats your problem with that then ?


whats fueling your apparent hostility & bitterness ???

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:21 PM

It's one mean, cruel, stinking world .... only if you want it to be.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: ranger1
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:01 PM

Tossing in my worthless two-cent's worth here (and liable to get lambasted for it): large amounts of perfume or other strong chemicals being passed off as perfume cause me to have a severe allergic reaction. My eyes swell shut, my sinuses go haywire and in a few cases I have experienced difficulty breathing. Since this affects me, I tend to avoid places where I might come into contact with this sort of thing. However, sometimes I can't avoid it, like the workplace and on airplanes. If they can make peanut-free zones on airplanes, why can't they make a perfume-free zone?

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:56 PM

According to some of my women friends the really chic way to wear expensive perfume is to spray some into the air of one's boudoir and then to walk through the cloud. I once innocently asked whether one should do this clothed or unclothed and was struck rather hard (can't think why!).
A woman I once worked with seemed to have a different idea. Her perfume was so strong that I imagined that she got dressed every morning and then got a flunky to lower her into a vat of her favourite perfume. She was then hung up to dry, by evaporation, for a while, and then set off to pollute the office ...

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 02:23 PM

I'm feeling resentment myself.

Not because the cruel world has given me some sort of alergy and I think it unfair. Not because I've got a bug up my ass that causes me to act like its the rest of the populations responsibility to make sure that I am safe and content.

I resent the fact that someone deems it nessary to decide whats good for me because he thinks that I, like everyone else here, and elsewhere, are "fuckwitted 'consumers" And "inconsiderate
willfully antagonistic shites
who cant be trusted to be let loose unregulated in public .. "


"imagine all the worse things you think i'd be likely to say to you in response..

then continue to make up to your own satisfaction
any version of the truth you desire..

..that seems to be the easiest way for you to interact with folks you dont know

and realities you fail to comprhend.."
I'm not making any version of the truth I'm quoting you!


It sucks you are not healthy,BUT its not my fault.
Don't act like you know whats best for anyone when you can't even stay out of the pubs that agrivate your condition.

Ron Take your own advice, read his posts again yourself and tell me that you don't consider his attitude a little offputting. Do you not have a gripe with someone who calls you a "Fuckwitt"?

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 02:47 PM

Raptor ... don't lose it over Ronny and his new punkrocker friend. They are just pokin to get ya goin ... not worth the argument. Not worth wasting energy over.

All and all .. I agree with ya Raptor.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:52 PM

"Take your own advice, read his posts again yourself and tell me that you don't consider his attitude a little offputting. Do you not have a gripe with someone who calls you a "Fuckwitt"?

No, I do not think he called me "fuckwitt" and from what I am reading he is speaking in generic terms, not pointing to anyone in particular. I may be wrong, I'm not speaking for anyone.   Even if he did, I think I can separate the personal feelings from the discussion at hand.

And sIx, please do not try to instigate anything. I've tried to keep this civil and I am not "pokin" Raptor or anyone else to get anyone going. I have stated some FACTS and OPINIONS. How YOU and ANYONE else reacts to that is your matter of choice.

It does seem that the people who are in what seems to be the minority and have not given any solid facts or strong arguements seem to take things personal.   Lets try to keep the discussion to the topic, not to each others personality.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: bobad
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:05 PM

Some opposing views

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:05 PM

In probably what is a futile bid to get this discussion back on topic, I understand that "scent-free environment" has caught on more in Canada then it has in the United States.

Do any Canadian Mudcatters have experience with this and how it has gone over in your workplace? It seems to me that the success or failure of the program would depend on how the company educates and presents it to their employees and involves them in the process?

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:22 PM

Thanks Bobad. Unfortunately they really do not give much substantial evidence on the page you gave us and the original link to www.scentedproducts.on.ca did not work when I tried it.

The page you gave us is part of a website for the Canadian Cosmetic, Toiletry and Fragrance Association and as they say on their website they are "The Canadian Cosmetic, Toiletry and Fragrance Association (CCTFA) is the only national association that represents the interests of brandowners, distributors, custom manufacturers, retail, and associate member companies that provide products and services for the personal care industry in Canada."

Their site also says that "The CCTFA acts as the principal voice of the personal care products industry by maintaining a constant dialogue with government regulators to ensure the development and effective representation of industry positions on all regulatory matters. Working with members, one of the Association's primary goals is to establish and maintain an optimum business environment that promotes Canadian industry global competitiveness through freedom from unnecessary regulation. Membership in the CCTFA is the best way to positively influence elected officials, regulators and deal with media and special interest groups."

I am sure there is evidence from an unconnected source that says the findings of the EPA and other organizations are wrong, and honestly I would like to see that information.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:26 PM

Thank you Bobad!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:30 PM

Good work Bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:46 PM

Nice one Bobad. You do realise of course that you are being ridiculous and futile ;)

Good to see carpeting getting a namecheck number 6!

Some folk just thrive on banning things.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,slt
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 09:36 PM

For those of you who don't understand the problem, scents attack the lungs and I suffered a stroke two years ago because of exposure to these allergens when I couldn't breathe. I agree a light perfume should not be a problem. However, in my office, two girls recently reacted to the knowledge of my allergies by intentionally spraying perfume in my work cubicle several times per day. To me this is life threatening, I must leave the area immediately and it has caused me no end of stress. My husband is so upset that I have been placed in this situation in a professional work environment after years of working in this office that he has vowed that if I have another stroke he will lay criminal charges against the girls for aggravated assault. These perfumes are no different than any other weapon when used in this manner, in much the same way aids can be intentionally used to endanger another person's life.