BS: Scent Free Environment

Subject: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:11 AM

companies have banned smoking inside and out by a declared distance, I can certainly understand that .... but with now declaring they are a 'scent free environment', I think peeple are now bordering on lunacy .... "write up Jones, I detect he's wearing Brute again, and Lizzie down in Accounts Payable, I picked up the scent of Chanel by her cubicle ... they have both beened warned, they know the rules .. sack the both of them, now!"

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:14 AM

Actually, I'd far rather have perfumes banned than cigarettes.... at least one doesn't bathe in cigarettes unlike some women I know who don't think the atmosphere is polluted enough without adding 15 gallons of 'Lovely' or that godawful thing that Gautier came up with per cubic yard of space. At least one can ask the smoker to cease or move.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:20 AM

'Poison' that's the one that gets me it's so all pervading, yet in small doses I love it.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:21 AM

Yeah ... I think every one should were industrial grey suits, very common in cut, short hair, they should all bathe daily using the same soap issued by our government. The workplace should be only be of one colour in all firms across the nation and they should all be common beige. .... really,peeple are becoming a bunch of whinnies and what I described will become a reality soon at the rate we are going ... I personally have never been offended by somone's 'perfume', sure some I don't like, but then some peeple wear clothes I don't like.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:25 AM

I also don't like the smell of popcorn cooking in an office lunchroom (this seems to be immune to the 'no scent' policy) .. but I wouldn't suggest that be banned ... I also hate the sound of chip/crisp bags, and it's you usually see the ones who complain about someone's perfume gobbling and munching down bags of popcorn anyway.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: JennyO
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:46 AM

I think everyone is missing the point here. Some people are ALLERGIC to perfumes. In our choir we had someone who was, and out of consideration to her, we avoided wearing them at practices.

In some people the effect can be quite drastic, even life-threatening. See here

I would think that the companies who declare they are scent-free are considering their employees.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:51 AM

Well 6 I think what is meant is the person who uses perfume not as an embellishment of her personality, but in place of it!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:53 AM

Yeah .... pretty soon some people will come up with some lame brained malady that is induced by the colour yellow ... come on now. I also assume you are not Roman Catholic, Bhuddist, ... because of the practice of using incense would drive the flock away.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: MMario
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 10:56 AM

sIx - I scoffed too, until the night I watched helplessly as a dear friends breathing passages closed to the point we nearly had to call an ambulance - If we had been unable to get her outside and away from the source of the perfume she would have required medical attention - as it was our party had to have our meals packed up because she was unable to re-enter the restauraunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:03 AM

If someone is susceptable to an allergic reaction (and these peeple are certainly a very small minority) ... move them away from ndividuals who want to excercise their personal right to wear a 'perfume' ... companies that excercise these rights also have very large Human Resource departments ... gotta keep them busy somehow.

There is an elderly lady I know who has been working for years in a low level clerical position ... has been wesaring her favourite 'perfume' for years now, and she does not plaster it on .... she was hauled in by her Human Resources' department and written up and warned not to again ... needless to say this lady was devastaded ... mind you she has been doing her job efficiently for years, never complains, never asks for anything ... and yet some big mouthed whinnie complained cause she 'didn't like the smell'.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:06 AM

MMario ... are you sure it wasn't the food ... this person certainly has been going to other resteraunts, malls, etc. coming inot contact with all kinds of peeple 'wearing perfumes' up until then? Why was this nite the nite she had the severe reaction?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:13 AM

Tartrazine a YELLOW food colouring which produces allergies in some people.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:18 AM

If companies are really concerned about the 'health' of employees remove vending machines carrying disgusting unhealthy foods, remove all carpets as these are carriers of lethal molds and allergenic dust and other know carcinogens.

Hummmpfff there, have a go at that.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: MMario
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:18 AM

as with other allergies - repeated contact can cause more and more severe reactions - specifically she had developed a problem with rose perfumes - and what probably triggered the reaction was a women who was DRENCHED in a rose scent (you could actually taste it in the air) - granted - an extreme situation and an extreme reaction (the women was asked to leave shortly after we left - sevral parties at the restuaraunt complainied)

But severe sensaeivities to scents are really a problem for some people - very different from what you mention in your post of 11:03

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:18 AM

There ya go Giok !!

I want the colour yellow banned at my work place.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:21 AM

I agree MMario ... if someone drenches themselves, than that is an issue, as one with poor hygiene ... who does 'stink' and is spreading disgusting bactria ... it's all down to common sense and respect.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 11:46 AM

This is not something as simple as you make it out to be sIx. It is not a joking matter. It is not as simple as someone being offended by perfume or the smell of popcorn.

Many of the perfumes, deodrants and even dryer sheets that people are joking about contain chemicals that appear on the EPA and other organizations lists of hazardous chemicals. Many chemicals are compounds and come from benezend derivates. Lovely items such as acetone, methylene choloride, camphor and ethnol can be found in these products.   Dryer sheets have been found to contain chloroform.

These chemicals can be traced to a number of diseases and conditions. Aside from damage to the lung and liver, they can also affect the central nervous system and studies are finding they may link to Alzheimers.

Some people are affected more strongly than others.   A good friend to the folk music world, Angela page, is a viction of mytoxin poisoning. Angela was one of the founders of Speakeasy in NYC, she was heavily involved with Fast Folk, currently hosts a folk music radio program on WJFF in NY state, and before this problem she seen as an MC at concerts and festivals across the country and in Canada. Her condition, sparked by exposure to mold, has left her unable to interact as you and I would. She needs to wear a mask to go out in public, her home had to be done over - removing all carpeting and bedding. She needs to use HEPA filters. Her life, and that of her family, has been severely impacted.   Her story can be found here, along with numerous articles -Angela's story

Without knowing what these items can do, it easy to make jokes and pooh-pooh the whole idea.   30 years ago, you would not think to complain about someone smoking a cigarette in an office next to you. We just dealt with it.   This may be the next battleground.

Take a look at the list of ingredients in some of the products that you use.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:01 PM

Yeah Ron ... I know .... what's the next battle ground after the war on scent?

I'm very well aware of the ingredients in products that we (my wife and I do not use) .. we are also aware of the ingredients of the food we eat ... and because of that I don't have to wear deodorant ... but what about one wearing s a scent of complete natural ingredients ... guess one will also get written up and threatened with termination from their place of employment.

As I mentioned, a 'scent free' environment of the workplace is pretty draconian when other more dangerous factors are overlooked.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:11 PM

"what's the next battle ground after the war on scent?"

Perhaps education

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:15 PM

Example being Ron ... at my workplace (and I'm sure the same at my friend the little ol lady threatned with termination) they have donut fridays .. lotsa donuts, cakes and crap for everyone, pizza and hamburger lunches ... good healthy foods laden with trans fats ... you bet you can see the peeple who would complain about someone wearing a scent of whatever wolfin' down that food ... we have private contract cleaners that come in every nite ... yup, no detection of the cleanser oder, but I'm sure no one has a clue what the ingredients are.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:16 PM

"Perhaps education" ... now that I agree with ... that should be the number one priority!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:19 PM

If you are sitting next to me gorging yourself on pizzaburgers and donuts, my health is not affected. You should be concerned for your own health.

If you are sitting next to me with clothes wearing Old Spice or clothes that have been cleaned with dryer sheets, my health could be affected.

You probably should ask to see what is in the cleansers that your cleaners are using.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:23 PM

If we educate each other as to the potential problems with "scents", it may make the change easier to understand and deal with. It is not "draconian", it sounds like you just haven't been exposed to the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:29 PM

It shouldn't just be me ... it should be the Human Resources department, the ones who make up such rules about 'scent free' environment, they should also be more responisble than handing out and encouraging the weak hearted to eat unhealthy foods ... I guess we should stay away from malls, theatres, sporting events in case we come across some guy wearing his old favourite Brute, or some old lady wearing her favourite Chanel #5 .... man o man, Ron it's a dangerous world out there. I think they should make it illegal period .... a complete scent free world, even have some scent police driving around arresting old ladies, sending them to gulag or whatever, yeah they can even cut down apple trees, don't want the sweet, sweet aroma of apple blossoms drifitng over to my neighbours yard ... don't ya think, in some cases the more we make our world a safe place, the more we are making it dangerous to live. Usually the ones who complain at the work place about the one's who wear scents are the ones who are miserable in life anyway.

Education is the answer, education and choice.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 12:31 PM

"I've been exposed to the facts Ron ..... I also am aware of priorities.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 01:10 PM

With all due respect, I don't think you are sIx. Man o man sIx, you are have formed an opinion and appear to disregard the facts.

You created far-fetched examples and scenarios. You can't outright "ban" smoking, nor can you "ban" scents and I think you realize that. The "scents" that are being discussed are not apple blossoms or other natural "scents". What is being "banned" are scents that are made by chemical compounds that are found in perfumes, deodorants and dryer sheets (among other items).

You are certainly old enough to remember when smoking was allowed in all the places that you mentinoed malls, theaters and sporting events. People did not question the health risks and took it all in. It was the work of lobbyists, often fighting against the corporate tobacco industry, that made the change. Most people (aside from smokers) do not question the policy anymore and are quite pleased with it.

Will they ever ban perfume and deodorant from a shopping mall? Probably not. Will changes be made in how these items are created occur?   Perhaps, if enough people are educated.   

It is not simply "choice". It is how your choice effects someone else, like smoking. If you are going to effect me, then it is a concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:39 PM

I can understand how some people may be allergic to scent but can't understand how they avoid it without living in a bubble?

Do they travel by train, plane, bus or tram? Do they shop in shops with people? Do they go to the cinema? Do they eat in restaraunts? Do they attend church? Do they go to wedding/funeral/christening parties? Do they go bowling? Do they frequent art galleries/theatres/libraries. Do they visit their childrens schools?

How do they cope? Banning scent in a workplace sounds extreme.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Bert
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:46 PM

Tree is allergic to almost all perfumes. She won't visit stores like Hallmark where perfume is all pervasive.

Excess perfume users should be treated in the same manner as a person who sets off a stink bomb in a store would be treated.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:47 PM

"I can understand how some people may be allergic to scent but can't understand how they avoid it without living in a bubble?"

That is the problem.

Not everyone is going to have an extreme reaction to scents. The problem is that the chemical "scents" can cause potential problems to anyone. It may be the post nasal drip that you suffer, or the hacking cough, or other seemingly unrelated issues. It may be that Alzheimers and cancer patients can trace their conditions to chemicals that cause these scents.

Personally, I detest the smell of cloves. It can make me feel nauseous, although physically it doesn't hurt me.   Do I think cloves should be banned? Of course not.   Roses can affect my hay fever, but I enjoy gardening.

The "issue" is that certain scents can be harmful to others, just like cigarette smoke. Personally, if you choose to smoke - knock yourself out. It is your life. Just don't do it around me. It is my life too. Chemical scents, which is what they are trying to ban, is the cause of the issue. How companies are educating their employees will determine how successful it is.    People, like our anonymous guest and sIx, may feel that their rights are being violated.   At the same time, they fail to see how they are impacting on the rights of others.

It isn't easy to change.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:49 PM

Ok ... Ron ... I'm not disregarding facts, sure some of them are exaggerated (to get a point across on how ridiculus this rule of employment is) ,i am talking about banning from a workplace, and threatening an employee with termination (new lingo for firing) of their employment for wearing a reasonable amount of 'perfume', and yes, it could apply to a natural scented product ... that's what I'm talkin about.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:53 PM

"Excess perfume"

That's the point ... and I had also mentioned if someone cooks popcorn in the office lunch room is exempt .. though to someone as myself I find it offensive, it makes me gag ... but guess what, I stay away from the lunchroom when someone is cooking it ... I also stay away from a sneezing employee who is not banned from work (and who knows where that sneezy person spent the nite on top of it all ?!?!?).

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:55 PM

Good point Ron ... I too enjoy gardening, but am allergic to certain plants ... I also have dogs and cats, I'm allergic to them, sometimes I have a bad spell but most of the time I don't ... I learn to live with it.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:57 PM

People have a right, a legal one, to have a workplace that is as safe and healthy as possible. Workers are stuck in one spot...they do not have the option of going someplace else, as does the person exposed to an allergen in a shopping center. And, why should the person having a reaction be the one to have to move to a different work area (mentioned in the 11:03 AM post) rather than the one who caused it? What if both have specialized jobs and that is the only place that they both can work?

As a former Human Resources person, let me say that companies are deathly afraid of being sued for not taking action after they have been warned of a situation. If employee X comes in and says that employee Y's perfume is making him sick (hopefully he has said something already to employee X and X refused to do anything about it), and management doesn't take action to correct the problem, than management may be liable for medical costs and "pain and suffering" damages.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:00 PM

That's a good point Art ... the company is worried over being sued .. not the employee's right.

This is the point I was waiting for.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:02 PM

Drives me mad that I can't buy un scented dryer sheets!

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:02 PM

Six - I wish you could spend just one hour with one of the women in my office. She wears so much perfume that it's enough to gag a maggot.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:04 PM

And that's why employees with colds are not banned ... during the cold season the workforce and productivity would be hit hard .. hard to sue someone if ya get pneaumonia ... just blame it on some unknown person ya passed by at the mall.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:06 PM

I could imagine ... you should smell this guys lunch at work ... every day he microwaves a bowl of tuna ... jeeezuz god almighty !!

It's a hard cruel world.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:06 PM

sIx, you keep mixing the hypothetical with the real.   When you exaggerate, you lose the point of the discussion. You are trying to twist the rule to meet your preconceived notion of the policy.

In the case of the elderly employee that you mentioned, you said the woman was "written up".   Did she receive the policy? Did she follow it?   Was she given a verbal warning? IF she was hauled into the HR department and written up without being forewarned, than I do agree with you - it was wrong.   HOWEVER, if she was previously made aware of the policy and violated it, then it sounds like they took the proper action. It would probably be the same treatment she would have received if she lit up a cigarette.

The purpose of "scent free" is not to eliminate all smells. In fact, many places are calling their programs "scent-reduced". The idea is to avoid the chemicals, not the smell of a flower. I am sure you won't be arrested the next time you pass gas in public. If you wear a rose, you won't be arrested.

These are the same arguments that were raised when smoking was "banned".   There are still some old farts that whine about that. The ones who won't have a problem are usually the young, especially children who will be taught the proper respect of others from the start.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:14 PM

"That's a good point Art ... the company is worried over being sued .. not the employee's right.

This is the point I was waiting for."

And that is a very good point, and not one that I have a problem with. A company is not only involved with making a profit. Lawsuits can effect the shareholders and impact on other employees. A company can rightfully be sued if it fails to take action, as Art mentioned.

And you make an extremely good point about a person with a cold. I don't think most companies appreciate employees coming in when they are sick. When they share that cold with others, an epidemic can occur that will slow down the operation and effect the productivity.

I also agree with you about tuna. I can't stand the stuff! My wife and I will have separate meals when she wants tuna and I will go into another room to eat!

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:15 PM

I get the point Ron .... I wish companies would educate, which they don't and didn't in this situation ... but I'm tellin ya, ya gotta draw the line ... if this lady was wearing a natural 'perfume' and someone complained (which I bet someone did, we all know there are those around) she would still be hauled in ... there is no stipulation on what chemical makes up the scent ... and it's not at all like smoking which is proven it is dangerous to all humans. I know this sounds crazy but I bet someone will jump some female employee at work somewhere, some place, rape her and get off for some crazy reason as to blame it on the colour of her skirt... which will set precedent somewhere that woman shouldn't were a certain colour skirt because some male species will turn aggresive because of it.

BTW ... not trying to be a crank with this thread, just trying to bring up some crazy issue that I think can turn something into being crazier.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:21 PM

Are my rights being violated when someone puts the key in their car ignition? I just think banning scent in the workplace is a laughable attempt at cleaning the air. Totally out of perspective but takes the attention away from the gas guzzlers.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: Kaleea
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:22 PM

This is no joke to me.
While I do not live in a "bubble," I do have to avoid many people & places as I am quite allergic to scents, chemicals, smoke, and other things which used to not be found in abundance in the everyday environment. These types of things will cause me to become ill with a complete upper respiritory infection requiring antibiotics and several weeks of recovery.
    I have no moral objection to persons killing themselves with tobacco smoke, but since moving to San Diego, I no longer have to deal with it in public places--it's against the law. A given perfumes is now made with hundreds and hundreds of manmade ingredients, many of which cause breathing problems for lots of people--not just a few.
I never had these "allergies" years ago. The Dr. told me that it is due to the hundreds of thousands of chemicals and pollutants in our everyday products & therefore in our air--not to mention all of the air pollution from autos, factories, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:25 PM

sIx, my friend; engage the first rule of being in a hole ...

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:27 PM

What is a "natural perfume"? Most "natural" products have a scent that will fade away rapidly. The perfume industry, which for decades did not reveal the ingredients in their products, added chemicals to make the scent stick around and to permeate the air around it. THAT is where the troubles begin.   A bottle of Chanel does not act the same way as a lily of the valley petal.

As for your rape analogy, that is just silly and far-fetched.   However, if you wish to use that, IF there was scientific evidence that a certain color would cause such behavior - then of course it should be banned.

We do not live in a world of "what ifs". We deal with the truth that is set in front of us.   Chemicals cause problems. I forgot to add the issue of asthma.   Asthma rates are at the highest levels ever. It coincides with the increase in the use of fragrances, which according to a study I read has increased tenfold since the 1950's (http://www.fpinva.org/)   It is more than just a coincidence.

It wasn't that long ago that people thought nothing of dumping sewage in rivers, factories burning chemicals into the air, garbage being dumped into our environment.   We've educated ourselves intow working to correct these problems so that we can again swim in our rivers and breathe the air. Now, the battle over scents and fragrances has gained some attention.   Far from being a "draconian" imposition in our lives, it may be an opportunity to change the way we think.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:29 PM

"Are my rights being violated when someone puts the key in their car ignition?"

Yes they are.   That is why we are fighting for hybrid cars and cleaner emmissions.

"I just think banning scent in the workplace is a laughable attempt at cleaning the air. Totally out of perspective but takes the attention away from the gas guzzlers."

Are you suggesting one battle at a time?   One does not negate the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:32 PM

If the gas guzzling battle was won people wouldn't be allergic to minor pollutants like scent maybe? But that's far too big and costly to oppose so lets hit the old dear wearing the scent. Sorry but the time and energy could be better spent trying to win the first battle first.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:36 PM

"If the gas guzzling battle was won people wouldn't be allergic to minor pollutants like scent maybe? But that's far too big and costly to oppose so lets hit the old dear wearing the scent. Sorry but the time and energy could be better spent trying to win the first battle first. "

Sorry guest, but I disagree. It is more than being "allergic". This can be just as dangerous. Read up on it and then post again.

You are right, but it is more than just a "gas guzzling" battle. It is how we use our resources.

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:38 PM

I will never carry a pomegranate stuffed with spices and rose petals again !

So, Ron ... does this mean the Catholic Church, and Bhuddist temples will have to change there ways (no more incense) after the war of the scents and us scentless or sensless people have to succumb to the Brave New World of no more scents and smells.

Personally ... I think there are more battles and wars that would take precedent over the War of the Scents.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Scent Free Environment
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:42 PM

Catholic Church, and Bhuddist temples

stiletto heels are banned from churches and temples ...