BS: Why does everyone hate America

Subject: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 07:32 AM

just wondered

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 07:35 AM

They Don't. Everyone in this equation = Approximately 6 Bilion People.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 07:36 AM

Before anyone else points it out that should hae read Billion

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: ifor
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 07:52 AM

Everyone doesnt hate America! But there are billions of us who hate the neo cons and their oil wars!
Firstly the neo cons hate the American working class and underpriviliged of the USA itself.The Bus gang are quick to send others off to war when their own kids are kept far removed from the war zones.
However there is an Ameria that is loved and respected across the world.
It is the USA of
Paul Robeson
Marin Luther King and the Civil Rights movement
Woody Guthrie
Pete Seeger
Joe Hill
John Coltrane
The Mississippi Feedom Riders
Bob Dylan
Alan Ginsburg
Kurt Vonnegurt
James Baldwin
Curtis Mayfield
The anti war in Vietnam movement
Harriet Tubman
Mahalia Jackson
and those ordinary ,ornery Ameicans who are prepared to stand up to injustice wherever it appears
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:06 AM

USA's population 300,000,000 or so
you name about a dozen that are OK
I think my point is made

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:09 AM

i was just sittin' around picking my nose and I thought I'd post this statement as a question, y'know?
standby while I wipe off this keyboard...

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST,JB
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:36 AM

I feel it necessary to point out that there is a great difference between hating America and hating the bunch of rogues and crooks who are fucking up the world and America big time.

I doubt very much that the average person hates Americans, but the hatred that Bush, Cheeney, Rumsfeld and all their chronies have managed to produce over the last few years will take a very long time to heal.

Besides you can`t blame people for feeling very very sceptical about all those Americans who put that scoundrel back into power for another term. Even if it was only by the narrowest of margins, that still adds up to many million Americans.

America has been a great place to so many people and I`m sure it will in time recover to be a great and TRUSTED nation again.

JB

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: kendall
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:44 AM

Don't feed the troll

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:49 AM

The real question is why it seems so many Americans actually worry whether people hate "America" or not. I'm inclined to think that it shows a kind of humility, even though it may at times be expressed in a disguise of arrogance.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:53 AM

Trollins what mudcat is all about

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 09:01 AM

and why do they hate the french after the french won them independence, a bit rude that

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 09:17 AM

Here's a recipe for making "Trollins".   Worth trying.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 09:21 AM

thank you for that
yum yum

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 09:22 AM

its not french so it might go down well with the mericuns

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 09:24 AM

Is that what they mean by feeding the troll?

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 09:57 AM

perhaps we need another term for GUEST

something less complimentary

PHANTOM DICKHEAD maybe......
GUERILLA CONTRIBUTOR

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 09:58 AM

mudcat welcomes "guests", sorry "phantom dickheads"

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 10:07 AM

Even ones who are below the minimum sanity quotient and pose questions like this one.

There is no "everybody", pal. It is, oddly enough, a null set. Big secret.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 10:11 AM

Why? It's obvious. For much the same reasons that Rome was hated 2,000 years ago, that Greece was hated some time before that, that Persia was hated prior to that....

That Stalin was hated, that Hitler was hated, that Imperial Spain was hated in the 1500's, and that the British were hated in the 1700's, for example (by the American revolutionaries and many other people).

But you already knew that, didn't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 10:37 AM

And, like Amos says, there is no "everyone" in matters such as this.

But you knew that too.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 11:15 AM

I love America. So, it's not everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 11:15 AM

America is hated for the same reason "That Stalin was hated, that Hitler was hated"
That answers my question, thank you Little Hawk

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 11:54 AM

Those who are feared are hated. It's that simple. Whether they are seen as good or bad, that's all a question of in whose eyes. The Romans were seen as good in their own eyes, they were seen as the devil incarnate in the eyes of those whose lands they invaded and conquered, and the same goes for the British, the Nazis, Stalin, the French, the Spanish, the Japanese, the Persians, the Greeks, the Moors, the Iroquois (Six Nations), the Aztecs, the Mongols, the Chinese, etc.

As to who among those was more or less evil in their behaviour than the others, comparatively speaking, that can be debated until you're blue in the face, but it won't change anything.

Great conquerors are not loved by those made to dwell in their shadow.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 01:41 PM

But I doubt if it would even have occurred to those people to ask as question like that, with its implication that the opinions of other people mattered.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 01:48 PM

No, probably not, McGrath, except a few philosophers here and there. The average human does not focus on his own wrongs, he focuses on the wrongs of others. The same is true of the average politician (if not all of them...politics being a very competitive racket).

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 02:59 PM

Because people like Martin Gibson love it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 05:18 PM

The average human does not focus on his own wrongs. Ambiguous -    "his own wrongs" would normally be taken to mean the wrongs done to him, in which case I don't think that assertion is true. I suspect you mean "the wrongs done by him". "Wrongdoings" would avoid that ambiguity.

But I don't think it's a matter of self-awareness anyway - it's only when you are worried what other people think of you that you worry about whether what you are doing looks good or not, and feel a need try to persuade yourself you are a good guy.

I mean can anyone imagine the Romans caring whether they were "good" or not in the eyes of anyone else? The imnportant thing for them would have been that they were Roman, and the only adverse comparisons that could have worried them would have been with their ancestors, with the implication that they weren't Roman enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: John O'L
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 05:33 PM

Good post, ifor. I agree. Guest has of course missed the point, but only because he/she wanted to.

Purple Foxx:
Before anyone else points it out that should have read 'have read'.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 05:34 PM

You suspect my meaning correctly, McGrath. I meant "his own faults and shortcomings and wrongdoings".

It IS a matter of self-awareness. Self-awareness is not so much concerned with what other people think OF you, but with what truly is rightful conduct and what isn't (regardless of whether it personally benefits you in the moment or not). How many people truly are self-aware? Well, it's hard to say, but most of those who are are not to be in the leadership positions running aggressive empires, anyway. That job doesn't suit people given to questioning their own motives. ;-D

You are quite right about the Romans. I am suggesting that the only people in a society like Rome who were likely to seriously question its ways were unconventionally deep thinkers of the time...such as philosophers or great creative writers, for example. (and only a minority of those as well)

Socrates questioned the mores of his time. So did Jesus. So did Buddha. Such people are rare. Their presence is usually considered subversive by the ruling order, precisely because they DO stand for self-awareness.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 06:10 PM

And my point is that the fact that Americans do actually seem to worry about what other people think of them is something that in principle is rather honourable. Even when it shows itself in seeking to defending things that are really indefensible, there is an implicit recognition that ethical judgements are relevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 06:25 PM

It is definitely honorable when seen in the individual American citizen.

American citizens are not well represented by their present criminal administration...nor were they well represented by the criminal administrations which preceded it (Reagan, Bush Sr, and Clinton).

What comes next? God knows.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 07:45 PM

Envy, pure and simple, envy.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 07:53 PM

SNORT!!

don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Naemanson
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:11 PM

The initial question is a generalization which is, as we know by its nature, wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:18 PM

Envy? Envy!!??? Ha! Ha! Ha! (gasp!) Ha! Ha! (snort!) Ha! Ha! Ha!

Oh, my....gotta wipe the tears away...

You are imagining that most Canadians envy people for living in the USA? Hey, man, I HAVE lived there. I'm in Canada now by choice. By God, I feel like kissing the ground whenever I return north across that USA border to sane, sensible, peaceful, reasonable Canada.

You are living in a dream world, teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:50 PM

Yeah, right, envy.

We envy your slums and your polluted air. We envy your unelected leaders. We envy your non-existent health care system. We envy your crime and the number of prisons you have. We envy your national debt. We envy the freedom of your press. We envy the repressive legislation brought forward by right wing Christian fundamentalists. We envy your fast food outlets. We envy food stamps. We also envy hollywood.

But most of all, we envy your international reputation as thugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:54 PM

"Why does everyone hate America?" is about as sensible as asking "Why are all cats black and white?"

A rather better way of putting this question would be "What causes people to hate America?"

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 09:51 PM

"What causes people to hate America?"

Well, probably not America in toto, but perhaps a certain arrogant disregard for human decency on the part of certain American political and business leaders, perhaps?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 10:12 PM

The question is: What causes people to hate America as a political/military/financial controlling system?

Not the land itself. Not the American people. The American ruling $ySStem. That ruling $ySStem is the enemy of most of the American people themselves too...except for a tiny percentage of controllers at the top. I figure they are less than 1% of the population.

If they can fool even 20% of the American public into supporting them, they will claim they have a mandate. And so far they have been able to fool at least that many.

If necessary, they will stage (or assist and arrange not to prevent) another terrorist attack. Nothing unites a populace so effectively as a perceived threat from a foreign enemy. It worked for Hitler. It works for this administration. So far it has worked every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 01:28 AM

That's right Richard Bridge. But lawyers are pukes no matter where they live.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 03:25 AM

Sayyid Kutb, the guy who started the whole Islamic Fundamentalism thing, hated America because he was shocked because he saw boys flirting with girls at church sock hops when he was in Colorado. Richard Bridge, by contrast, hates America because someone on eBay wouldn't ship something or other to him. Canadians hate America because of something to do with Salmon fishing, though I never quite understood what--

For my part, I hated America because of MCarthyism, Racism, the Vietnam War, and because no one would ever dance with me in High School--

I like America now, because I realized that there is more to life than sock hops--

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 08:04 AM

" feel it necessary to point out that there is a great difference between hating America and hating the bunch of rogues and crooks who are fucking up the world and America big time. "

But they work so damn HARD at it...

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 03:59 PM

Okay, Brits and others, do you hate us because we saved your sorry asses when you couldn't.

I never crossed my mind with regard to hateing any of you because I barely give you a passing thought to begin with.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:17 PM

". . . we saved your sorry asses. . . ."

Yeah, right! Just whose "sorry ass" were we saving, anyway? It was damned lucky that this country woke up in time and was able to fight the Axis powers in Europe and the Pacific islands, because if they hadn't been defeated there, we would have been fighting the Germans on the East coast and the Japanese on the West. By saving other peoples' "sorry asses," we were saving our own, and at the same time, keeping the destruction of war off our own shores.

No sense of history, GUEST. Go read a book! (Also, you might want to learn how to spell.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:20 PM

The British proved well able to save their own sorry asses, Guest. They, and they alone, stopped the Germans in 1940 when they won the Battle of Britain. That was the first German defeat in the war.    Hitler shelved all plans to invade Britain after the summer of 1940. The USA was not even in the war until Dec '41.

Further to that, it was on the vast steppes of Russia in '41-'44 that the German army suffered its truly decisive defeats and irrevocably lost the war. The USA was not responsible for that victory either.

Oh, you helped, all right, but you did not save Britain's sorry ass, they saved themselves, and if you think you did, well, you are just engaging in a little self-serving rewriting of history.

Besides, the French saved your sorry asses in the American Revolution. Remember? (grin) It was their naval victory over the British that enabled George Washington to defeat Cornwallis at Yorktown. So why are you Americans giving the French all this shit now over "freedom fries" and stuff like that? Short memory?

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:22 PM

I would say the only "sorry ass" around here is GUEST's.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:27 PM

I think the West Coast would have been way too long a stretch for Japan, Don. Way too long. Not realistic. And the East Coast for the Germans? Well...they would have had to take England and defeat Russia first (then take 2 or 3 years to build a huge Atlantic navy) and they could not succeed in any of those objectives...even before the USA was in the war. Their effort to invade England had failed by Sep 1940. Their effort to conquer Russia failed before the gates of Moscow in the bitter winter of Dec 1941. The handwriting of German defeat was on the wall long before the first American soldiers set foot in Europe. The Germans took on too many opponents. By the time Normandy happened, they had already lost the war, and no doubt about it. They could still fight, but they could not win.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:28 PM

People DO give a passing thought to a dire threat, don't they? That's why the world thinks about the USA a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:29 PM

....and if the British had't saved your sorry ass' you'd be speaking FRENCH!

Subject: RE: BS: Why does everyone hate America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:49 PM

LOL! Yeah, this business of who saved whose "sorry ass" goes all over the place, doesn't it?

Let's see...

The French saved the Algoquins' SAs from the Iroquois...
The British and the Iroquois saved the future Americans' SAs from the French and the Algonquins...
The French then saved the Americans' SAs from the Iroquois and the British...

and blah, blah, blah, blah!

The real truth is: They ALL did it for themselves! 100%

The USA included.