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black and tans back in the news
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Subject: black and tans back in the news From: Jon W. Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:00 PM Come out you black and tans, come out and fight me like a man.... Looks like Ben & Jerry's could use a folkie in their marketing department - click here
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:13 PM I was under the impression that the drink was invented in the late 1800's, and the expression was later used to describe the British militia, who wore khaki colored uniforms from what I understand. While I do see where there is some insult in using the name, perhaps it would be best to keep the ice cream as "black and tan" here in the states and call it "half and half" overseas. Here, "half and half" is something you put in milk - or a sex act. As for the ice cream, it is really good. I had to try it and I was amazed that they were able to get the flavor of stout into the ice cream and still make it appetizing. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: GUEST,weelittledrummer Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:33 PM Didn't Duke Ellington write a Balck and Tan Fantasy - I could be wrong? I think the term must have other resonances for folks in other climes. I doubt if any kids in England would know know about the Black and Tans in Irish history - most of em dont know anything about their own history. Mind you Ben and Jerry probably do an Orange Ice Cream. I'd keep an eye on them. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: GUEST,Mrr Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:35 PM They ARE folkies over there. I don't believe they didn't know - they probably just thought it was long enough ago... |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: fat B****rd Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:39 PM I believe the Black & Tans were so called because half the uniforms were from the police and half from the army. It seems that in post World War 1 Ireland they were regarded with fear and hatred. The drink is one of my favourites and gave me my first (aged 14) hangover. Nowadays I like Guiness and bitter. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:41 PM No, it is common to order a black and tan in bars here in the U.S. There are beers that are clearly labeled as "Black and Tan". Here is one - Yuengling Great beer. I really don't think there was any intent to slight or cause concern. Ben & Jerrys is one of the few socially conscious companies that I know. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: katlaughing Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:47 PM The name also brings to mind "black and tan" coonhounds. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Emma B Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:50 PM The Black and Tans are still held in such contempt in modernday Cork that my friend's German Shepherd Guide Dog, who was trained there, is known as a "Black and Gold" As for Ben and Jerrys ice cream, it is lovely! They sponser and provide free icecream for the annual World Toe Wrestling Championships held annually at Fenny Bentley - check it out! |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:52 PM Here is a link from the Guinness website from the U.S. The spoon they sell in their store is for "black and tans" - spoon also another brewers offering - Saranac Black & Tan There is no disrespect meant. It is an old habit based on a brewing history that is going to be hard to break, but I think education might help. I know that most people I've met from the other side of the pond think nothing of "smoking a fag", but that expression makes people here uneasy. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Maryrrf Date: 21 Apr 06 - 03:50 PM I think Ron is right. There was no disrespect intended. Would somebody really get upset about an ice cream flavor? By the way I think I'll stick with rum raisin because "Black and Tan" ice cream doesn't sound very good. On the other hand, now my curiosity is piqued.... |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Emma B Date: 21 Apr 06 - 03:54 PM You should try the Cherry Garcia Mary! Hope you're keeping well BTW |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Amergin Date: 21 Apr 06 - 04:05 PM I didn't know what a Black and Tan drink was...until a barmaid explained it to me....I have only known it as a half and half... |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Azizi Date: 21 Apr 06 - 04:25 PM Re: Duke Ellington's use of the phrase "Black and Tan": To African Americans that phrase means [or rather "meant" as I don't think it's used anymore] Black people who have dark skin color and Black people who have light skin color i.e. "Mulattos"-another referent that has been retired. For at least 30 years, the colloquial term "mixed" has replaced the referent "mulatto". My experience has been that the term "mixed race" is more often used outside Black communities than within those communities. Given the riveting historical information about "Black & Tan" as the referent for the British regiment in Ireland, and the information about the "Black and Tan" drink, I find it ironical that another colloquial referent that Black Americans {if not others} use for children of Black/non-Black ancestry is "half and half". |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 21 Apr 06 - 04:31 PM Mary, as much as I love stout, I was apprehensive when I saw it in the store. Ice cream is not my usual choice for a "pint". However, I was very surprised. They used dark chocolate ice cream with a creamy vanilla that has the character of stout. Very interesting and enjoyable. Again, the name simply refers to an American term for a mixed drink. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: katlaughing Date: 21 Apr 06 - 04:53 PM Azizi, my son-in-law who calls himself mohagany in colour and is from Antigua, started calling his twin sons "zebra children" before they were even born. When they saw a picture of their redheaded, very pale baby cousin, they called him "strawberry" and themselves "chocolate" and they thought it sounded like a great mix! |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Maryrrf Date: 21 Apr 06 - 05:40 PM Doing great, Emma B - but wanting to go back across the pond again and not enough vacation from work till next year. Yes Cherry Garcia's great, cherries are my favorite fruit. Oh dear, I fear I'm getting a strong urge to try that "Black and Tan" - dark chocolate ice cream with creamy vanilla (and the pounds just keep piling on). I know they have it at Krogers, and there's one less than a mile from my house....it's Friday and its been a long week and I deserve to treat myself....... |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Amergin Date: 22 Apr 06 - 02:25 PM The following is from the Guardian: Other Ben and Jerry Greats |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 03:23 PM Ben and Jerry's ain't Ben and Jerry's no more, and I'm not real comfortable with claiming agribiz giant Unilever, the current owner of the brand name, as "socially conscious". But then, beliefs like quintessial Americans like Ron Olesko aren't exactly rooted in reality, and this whole argument proves that. Sure, Ben & Jerry's still makes Americans feel all warm and fuzzy. No growth hormones for their cows! Products all come from enviro-friendly and PC "family" farmers. Which makes it so easy to ignore Unilever's mercury poisoning India, and raping South America to cash in on the genetically modified soya craze to feed the international meat frenzy. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 22 Apr 06 - 04:55 PM Wow! I'm quintessial! Thanks Jac... I mean guest. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:03 PM Did I mention Ben & Jerry's mummy and da parents' violations of child labor laws in India too? Yeah, have yourself a quintessentially, All American Ben & Jerry's and keep those uppity Indian 10 year olds down on those idyllic cottonseed farms. Mmmmmmmm, that Cherry Garcia never tasted so good. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM Unilever's history is not a secret Guest. Still, you are making an assumption about the subject of this thread. It may be easy for you to make the connection, but there is no proof. There is more history to the contrary. Why hasn't there been protests against Saranac, Yuengling and the most well known of the brands - Guinness? How come their use of the term black & tan does not draw such criticsm? |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:19 PM Guinness' explanation. It is also no secret that Ben & Jerry's exploited famous/well known names (people, places, things) to give their brand instand name recognition with American consumers. Unilever is obviously following that market strategy with their brand of corporate think that is clever by half. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:26 PM Thank you for providing the link Guest, you proved the point I made earlier about the term. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 06:35 PM Ron, you are the one who said, and I quote directly from above: "Ben & Jerrys is one of the few socially conscious companies that I know." I am merely pointing out you don't know much. Call it greenwash, bluewash, whatever. Global corporados like Unilever buy up companies like Ben & Jerry's every day to sanitize their images, without changing their horrific ways of doing business. And Ben & Jerry were assholes for selling out to them, and allowing their "socially conscious" name brand to be exploited by the highest bidder. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 22 Apr 06 - 06:40 PM No, the subsidiary that is Ben & Jerry's is one of the few socially conscious companies that I know. Their parent company has huge problems. I think you need to read the whole story about Ben & Jerry's. I am not disagreeing with you about their selling ut being a problem, but the story is deeper than that. Again, you are also using the same tactics that you used in previous threads Guest (wink wink) - you are trying to shift the story. The fact remains that none of us know if this decision was premeditated, but the history in this country to use the term "black and tan" and as you were nice enough to point out - in others as well. I thank you for finding the Guinness information, it really helped clarify. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 06:58 PM So Ron, do tell what the "deeper whole story" is. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 22 Apr 06 - 06:59 PM Sorry, I don't speak to strangers |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:15 PM You were until you were uncovered yet again as an idiot. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:22 PM takes one to know one Look up "aquisition" |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:23 PM By the way, in the PM you sent me the other day you said you weren't going to discuss anything with me. So you have to pose as a guest to do so? Cowardice. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Nigel Parsons Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:09 PM A tongue in cheek look at ice cream from Whipsmart Ice This is a off-shoot of the current 'Perplexcity' puzzle trading cards CHEERS Nigel |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: JohnInKansas Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:11 PM As noted by weelittledrummer and by Azizi, Duke Ellington's Black and Tan Fantasy most likely referred to persons of mixed race, and had nothing to do with the British/Irish lore. It may have been a sort of "social commentary" at the time, but the significance of that seems lost now. Although Ellington probably played it as a straight instrumental (and it's quite danceable) I've heard that a lyric was written for it, but I've never been able to find one. It does seem perhaps to be somewhat suspect as "not politically correct," as – so far as I've been able to find – it is omitted from all recent fake books or other compilations of Ellington songs. No notations, no discussion – apparently just because of the title.(?) It appears on a few recordings, but they're mostly out of print and considered "collectibles," so they're on the expensive side. It's a great song, and it seems it must have been of significance musically; but has some "changes" – as I remember it – that I've never been able to quite work out. I've searched, rather casually, for it for several years without finding anything useful. It was a fairly popular "high school band" number as recently as about 1955-7, and perhaps my trouble with it is the result of playing it with clarinets who were always a bit out of tune; but it seems to have completely disappeared now. I wonder why. Is it something I'd want to know, should I ever find it and want to play it? Maybe those two words just don't play well together. John |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Maryrrf Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:25 PM Well, I gave in to curiosity and temptation (violating my policy of never having ice cream in the house - because I go overboard) and bought a pint. Very nice! Interesting the way they managed to integrate the flavor of stout into the vanilla cream. I don't think it would be my first choice if I were going to pig out on ice cream, but I don't think that pint will stay around for very long in my freezer, either. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Kaleea Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:41 PM Jeepers! i thought this would be news about doggies. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Apr 06 - 03:40 AM Strangely enough I always think of Ellington as a very 'arty' composer. Its a long time since I listened. Your comments about the danceability of the piece, have made me realise how stupid and dysfuctional a listener I was as a child. I will get a cd of him, and try and get into him. there is obviously substance there that I was missing. |
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Subject: RE: black and tans back in the news From: Kweku Date: 24 Apr 06 - 04:01 AM there is no such thing as black and white being the colour of human beings in Africa we have several reference to the colour black and it represents a whole range of things;sometimes indicating beauty,strenght,evil,etc. |
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