Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem

Subject: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:24 PM

We have a computer that both kids use (as administrators) and I use (as an administrator) on occasion, mostly to run scans and updates and such. And we have a guest setting on it.

My son plays games and downloads stuff. My daughter plays games and downloads stuff. I run AdAware, Spybot Search&Destroy, and Spyware Blasted regularly. I use the Earthlink Firewall and Antivirus (comes free with membership--prior to a few months of this I used Symantec Personal Firewall and Norton Antivirus).

The computer is acting up in my son's and in the guest's domains. Once he has it up and running there is this steady repetition (several times a minute) of the computer's tone that indicates you've done something wrong. It might be the popup window or error sound. But there is nothing to give us a clue as to what program is upset.

I've just tweaked the firewall and removed a couple of blocked addresses that we don't know what they were. Maybe something important, maybe not. But this dinging is driving anyone near that computer nuts.

Has anyone else encountered this, and what did you do about it? It shows up as a blip in the task manager everytime it tries to check in, but I haven't figured out what it is.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:56 PM

When was the last time you reinstalled your OS?

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:26 PM

The immediate guess is that something someone's downloaded included a "call home" scheduler that's failing to make it's connection. This often happens when an AV or AntiAdware/AntiSpyware program deletes the carrier file after registry entries have been made, and a line in the registry is calling a file/function that was deleted.

Note that that's just one of several most common, but it's easiest to describe.

You may have logs of what's going on already:

Start | Help

Select Index

Put "log" in the search box

Select "recording system and program failures"

Click "Display"

This will give you a brief description of the "DrWatson" tool, explaining that the tool should turn on automatically whenever there's a system or program failure. Don't believe the bit about "turn on automatically" as it ignores quite a lot; but there should be a button to "Open DrWatson," and/or an instruction for how to open from command line.

Open DrWatson

Click on "Help" in DrWatson for a description of what you're trying to do.
You can click "Options" and "Print" in DrWatson Help to print individual items from the Help file, which you may want to do so you can have them handy.

The other reason for opening DrWatson was to read to "Log File Path" so you know where to look to find the file.

The file likely will be at C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Dr Watson\drwtsn32.log, but check to make sure. The .log file should open in Notepad when you double click it.

If you've been having frequent errors that are being recorded, the file may be large, so you'll have need to note, from the Dr Watson Help "Using the Dr Watson logfile" that each entry begins with

"Application exception occurred:"

You can search in Notepad for the "starting line" to see if the logfile identifies an error that's been recurring.

If your logfile is too large to separate things, you can just delete the Dr Watson.log file, and a new (shorter) one will be created the next time a "loggable event" occurs.

If, and possibly whether, you find anything there, in Dr Watson Help, at the bottom of each topic there should be a link to "related informatin." Look at "Event Viewer" for how to see what's happening with glitches that may not show in Dr Watson.

Program identifiers in either Dr Watson or Event Viewer (several functions) can be "cryptic" so you may still have to work a bit to figure things out, even after getting a file name for something that's not working.

Before making any guesswork changes, it would be a good idea to:
1. Rerun AdAware full scan, and let it clean any problems found.
2. Rerun Spybot full scan, and let it clean any problems found.
3. Run HiJack2 and save a fresh hijackthis.log that you'll be able to refer back to for the "problem" system state. Do Not Attempt to Fix ANYTHING in HiJack, unless you're "supremely confident" that you know what you're doing.

(I'll have to look for a link to get HiJack, if you don't have it. It's another free download.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:43 PM

CH, I haven't reinstalled the operating system at all in this computer. It's just over a year old and there haven't been too many changes. I have noticed that some programs seem to hang more since I downloaded the last back from Microsoft last week. I will admit that that was my first thought--perhaps I could just reinstall the software over the top of the existing program and fix any defective file. It's still in the back of my mind right now. I'll try a few other things first.

John, I hope I don't have to go through all of that, but thanks for the details. I am familiar with but haven't looked at Dr. Watson in ages, but the log file seems a good starting point. Next time (if) this happens I'll check and see what is happening every 10-15 seconds. I think it should leave a fairly conspicuous path.

Before sending the above request I updated and ran all of the programs you suggest, plus I updated Spyware Blaster, dumped the temporary files and defragged the hard drive. I downloaded StartUp into that computer (it's the little utility for getting pushy programs out of the starting lineup) and I unchecked a number of programs. I uninstalled a couple of programs that we put in that never get used and disconnected one that looks useful but is actually a bit of a hog (Weatherbug). I checked to see what is blocked in the Firewall, and I'll keep an eye on that for a while.

I am familiar with the HiJack (isn't it "hijack this"?) program, but haven't used it. I'll print out your post and leave it next to that computer for future reference. Thanks!

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:04 PM

Once a year, reinstall your Windoze OS whether you THINK it needs it or not... cause it does....

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 07:55 PM

Clinton -

A major problem with reinstalling the OS (with WinXP), is that unless you got it new within the last couple of months you will need to install the Service Releases that came after publication of the OS.

Unless you ordered the SR1 CD when it was new, the SR1 update can be an 800 MB download. I don't know what size the SR2 update is.

Until the Service Releases are installed, you are vulnerable to many well known and frequently exploited vulnerabilities.

If you think you're lucky, you can install the OS and just go to the Microsoft Download site and start getting updates - but unless you have a very fast connection, you can depend on at least a week before all the patches are in place.

Being lucky isn't impossible, as most "modern" AV programs/firewalls are equipped to block known threats, but it's still a large task to reinstall and get up to date.

With Windows (any version) an OS reinstall often will mean reinstalling a number of other programs, since they have to be run through the installation hoops to be entered into the new Registry files in order to operate properly.

A minor problem with reinstalling the OS (with WinXP) is that it's almost never necessary, if you use the tools that are there, and with at least a few of the more recent scamware/spyware ploys it WON'T FIX ANYTHING, although it can conceal a couple of them and make them incredibly difficult to remove properly.

Reformat and reinstall is being used more frequently by some large IT departments, since there are a very few threats for which that is the only reasonable fix; but they have the advantage of having a fixed software setup that can be mirrored to a reformatted drive,and often all the "authorized" user files are kept on servers. Few human users (not IT administrators) can even remember all of the other stuff that needs doing to completely replace all the crap that accumulates if you're actually using your machine.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 03:06 AM

SRS -

The description above could have been much shorter, given that you're familiar with Dr Watson, and should suspect other log files that might give info on what's happening.

In Win Explorer, you could click on your C:\ drive, Search for filenames including ".log," - search subfolders, hidden, and system files. (You're likely to find more .log files than you might expect.) Any of the .log files should open in Notepad, and may have clues.

The main purpose for saving a HijackThis log is in case what you find is one of the nastier ones that makes Registry changes, you'll have a place to look back at what you had.

When an offending file is identified, you may be able to look it up at one of the anti-scumware sites and find a more sophisticated/complete cleanup procedure, and knowing what was running may help make a more positive identification.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:56 PM

"you will need to install the Service Releases"
You didn't DL them and burn them to CDs?

Your loss mate.....

" A minor problem with reinstalling the OS is that it's almost never necessary"
Ya... right... that's why techies recommend a reinstall ever 6 months to a year depending on how much software you're installing/removing.... cause it's almost never necessary.... sure..... whatever.....

SRS.... do yourself a favour.... back up your important stuff and wipe your HD and reinstall..... You'll be happy you did... and your PC will love you for it

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 04:13 PM

Clinton -

It's true that some "techies" are doing routine reinstalls for almost every glitch, but the only places where that's really practical are in "business nets" (or business-like setups) where a specific set of programs can be mirrored to individual machines and is identical for all users.

An additional condition normally applicable for those knowledgeably recommending this is that authorized user data is generally on servers remote from the individual machine - and the "techies" are permitted to ignore the loss of "unnecessary personal data" that may be lost. They may also be happy to see "unauthorized programs" disappear in many cases.

Relatively few individual users even know what programs they're using, to be able to do a satisfactory reinstallation, and even fewer have the space on separate drives to adequately mirror (and keep updated) their entire system. If you're blessed in that way, I congratulate you; but most people simply don't have the resources.

The WinXP SR1 CD was available on request, but most people got the update by download from a service center. When received in that way, the entire download probably was never "on the machine" all at the same time in the raw form you need for installation, so there was never an opportunity to "save it to CD." In addition, when received via download, only the parts necessary for the users' current configurations were sent, so the entire disk, needed if system changes have been made, was never on their machine.

Changes made en bloc by both WinXP SR1 and SR2 are incorporated into later updates, so for a current reinstallation, the necessary patches can be obtained via the update system. Being broken down and incorporated into smaller individual patches it probably is more efficient to get them this way, if one has adequate firewall, AV, AS, and other "defenses" to protect the system until the updates can be completed, but it's not a trivial operation for most individual users.

There are a few specific forms of malware extant for which a complete reformat and reinstallation is the preferred remedy. (For 'Nix sytems, I've heard that it's currently the preferred recourse for virtually all malware infections.) For WinXP, and to large extent for Win2K, these are currently rather rare, and occur mostly when people download "anything that's free" and/or attempt to use incompatible "utilities" that some   idiot    marginally qualified "expert" recommended - usually to solve problems they didn't have.

An individual user who isn't prone to gadgets and gimmicks should almost never need to reinstall a recent Windows OS. If you don't f**k with them, they don't get f***ked.

The last time I did an OS reinstall was in 1981, when a hard drive was "scabbed" during a 2,000 mile shipment. Disk Repair wasn't able to recover the damaged sectors, so I did an overlay install (Win95 or Win98, I don't recall) on a 4 year old original to get access to data files to move them to a new HD. I will admit to three or four OS reinstalls with Win 3.11WG and possibly two with Win95 - since 1981. All machines I have currently running (6) are at least 6 years old (one is 11 y.o. next month) and NONE has ever needed a reinstallation of the OS.

If, as an expert user, you have reason and ability to try out bizarre programs and methods, you probably have your system mirrored; and this is an appropriate method of restoring. If you're an admin with lots of identical users who have remote data storage it's also fine, and a lot easier than treating problems individually. If you're an independent rational user, I've seen no reason for routine reformat and reinstall as a maintenance/recovery method.

Any individual user who's running into this need should adjust the loose nut(s) at the front of the keyboard. (The "mouse nut" may also need attention.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 11:34 PM

Like John says, it may be that at one time you could reinstall the OS, and it still occurs to those of us old enough to remember that old trick, but it is no longer a practical exercise. Last time I reinstalled an OS was when I was using Win2000Pro and I was experimenting with dual platforms. It's a lot of work to reinstall an OS--it kills an entire weekend, minimum.

I think my adjustments to the firewall seem to have helped on that computer. Knock wood, but we shall see.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:36 AM

"it kills an entire weekend"

WTF???

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 11:25 AM

The process of reinstalling an operating system takes a while, in my experience.* A lot of other things have to be reinstalled, things have to be downloaded, and although you are CERTAIN that you have everything you could possibly need to do the job, SOMETHING always happens to drag the job out. Yup. At least a weekend.

*The last one I fought this battle with was Win2000Pro. It may have changed, but I won't bet on it.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:26 PM

Each to thier own I suppose and I have had no dealings with XP (most I've done with XP is install XP home and more or less take it straight back off again) where the SPs sound so big but I've done quite a few Win2K pro reinstalls.

My preference is generally to reinstall. I will normally have a quick play and look through the MS KB etc. and if things fix more or less straight away fine but I have known several people, myself included, waste far more than a weekend trying to troubleshoot windows, follow KB articles that describe the problem but don't fix it, etc. so my opinion is it can often be quicker just to reinstall and have done, plus have the knowledge the system is clean again.

As for remembering what programs need reinstalling, I take the view if I can't remember a program, it probably has no business being on the machine any longer anyway.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:30 PM

"if I can't remember a program, it probably has no business being on the machine any longer"
Nice 'rule of thumb'

"At least a weekend."
You reinstalling from a tape drive or something?????

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:54 PM

No, but I'm usually reinstalling because there is a problem, I'm not doing as a hobby. So as I try to sort out the problem I have to pay attention to what I'm doing and reinstall other software in the right order, etc. I don't know how you reinstall, but I basically was rebuilding the software system and putting back data. As I mentioned before, I was also working with a dual platform, meaning I had to get both sides right.

Why so incredulous, CH? Just because not everyone has your experience (whatever that might be) means they're doing it incorrectly. Since you have no knowledge of my system, but since I've articulated more than a passing familiarity with computer system hardware and software, why not just take my word for it? I'm not alone in finding the reinstallation of an operating system a drag because it takes so long. Do you have something to contribute, or are you just slumming to distract the conversation?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:00 PM

You coulda had it all reinstalled by now!

LOL

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 02:39 PM

Not likely. The kids are using that computer about 16 hours a day and would be mightily put out if I tied it up for a couple of days working on it. Unless it is dead, they don't want to hear about it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:47 PM

A long time ago, in a place far away ...

As we were planning some travel, I thought it would be nice to have a laptop that could go along. This was when Win95 was the best Windows available.

I purchased a new laptop, took it home and started setup. Starting with the OS and Office programs already in place on the machine, it took me 23 hours to adjust settings in the Office programs to my personal preferences, and copy data files I wanted from my desktop machine. I still have the log files to show what all had to be done, and the letter I sent to the manufacturer, so this isn't just a "rememberance."

Unfortunately, one old program that I added near the end of this exercise resulted in a crash/lockup and the error messages indicated that (per the laptop builder) my best option was to insert the recovery CD. When I did so, the CD took over, disabled keyboard and mouse input, reformatted the drive and reinstalled everything just like what I had started with.

The reinstallation to "raw" state took approximately 2 hours.

A telephone call to the service people at the manufacturer's number revealed that this was the intended function of the recovery disk. They agreed that the process could not be interrupted if the disk was used.

By 3:00 PM the following day, I was back home with a different laptop, for which I had verified - in the store - that the recovery disk was usable somewhat like an original OS installation CD. Although it took about the same 20+ hours to tweak the setup on all the office programs and get all my data files transferred, I don't believe I ever needed the recovery disk for the replacement laptop except for a couple of times when a different driver was needed for a plugin module. That laptop still runs (but doesn't have the resources to put a later Win version on it).

Win95 was pretty crude compared to later versions. It's also worth noting that at that time I didn't need even a dial-up web connection, and did not require configuring the laptop for LAN hookup.

For current machines, a reformat of an 80 GB hard drive (or partition) typically takes an hour or more, if you do a full format. A full format of a 160 GB HD, a good size for general use now, can run around 3+ hours. (Multiply times by at least 2.5 for laptop HDs due to their slower access times, but allow for smaller drives common in laptops.)

An installation of WinXP to a desktop machine from the shrink-wrap package carries a suggestion that one allot at least 3 hours for the setup. This does not include fully setting up any LAN and/or web connections, or for setting preferences to get to useful layouts and functions instead of the "idiots only" Windows defaults. Add at least 3 to 5 hours for setup after installation.

Installation of Word, Excel, Outlook, Access, and perhaps another one or two of the Office Suite may require from one to three or four separate CDs. Each CD can take an hour or more for installation and basic setup.

If you're working from an early issue WinXP CD, you will need up to 80 hours "connect time" for updates from the web site, to get current with patches, although you can set it up to do the download and installation in about an hour, and let the updates install as they arrive.

Probably the majority of people get their Windows and Office as OEM versions preinstalled on the hard drive before the computer arrives. This usually reduces a complete reinstallation of what came with th emachine to two CDs¹, and a very few makers actually provide a "mirror installation²" on the CDs which can significantly reduce the reinstall time; but it's still likely to run at least a couple of hours.

¹ One maker I've encountered puts everything on a DVD. Since the "DVD part" of a multi-function optical drive is arguably the most failure-prone device one's likely to have, most failures probably mean installing a new CD/DVD drive before software reinstallation can be attempted (in my experience). Even DVD readers that do a perfectly acceptable playback for movies and music may have bit-error rates unacceptable for large software installation.

² The mirror installation was what the laptop maker above attempted to provide. That maker, unfortunately, failed to provide OS source files to permit any other kind of recovery. Most of the few who do a "mirror" do now provide "installation files" so you can do either a start-over or can access the CAB files needed for normal maintenance.

IFF you have all your data files sequestered somewhere in backups, just copying 80 GB of data files to your "restored" hard drive via either USB-2 or 10/100-BaseT LAN (at true 100 MB/sec or better) probably will take between 1 and 3 hours, depending on the quality of the drives involved on both ends, especially if you elect to verify the file writes. Double the time for anything copied back from CDs and add time for swapping disks, and expect about x4 (with fewer delays for disk swaps) from DVD due to slow seek time on most DVD readers.

Recap:
1. Reformat 80 GB partition - 1 to 3 hours
2. Install WinXP - 2 to 5 hours
3. Configure preferences in WinXP - 1 to 2 hours
4. Reinstall and configure AV program, and firewall - 1 hour if you're good
5. Rebuild/tweak web connections and LAN hookups - 1 hour
6. Reinstall Office programs - 1 to 5 hours
7. Configure preferences in Office programs - 2+ hours
8. Connect and setup auto update for Windows and Office programs 1 hour (actual downloads will take about 80 hours).
9. Reconfigure email connections and setup logins - up to an hour.
10. Reinstall Popup Blocker, AntiSpyware, AntiAdware, etc.

Now if everything went well, I'm ready to:

Re-import active email
Re-import email address books (3)
Reinstall Adobe Acrobat (Distiller/Reader)
Reinstall Fonts not in Windows basic setup
Reinstall Ghostwrite/GhostScript/GhostGum
Reinstall Pagemaker
Reinstall Photoshop (Elements in my case)
Reinstall AutoCad Light
Reinstall 3 or 4 music notation programs
Reinstall FrameMaker (the Demo program I use for reference)
Reinstall DeLorme (Highway Map program)
Reinstall Random House Dictionary
Reinstall Adobe Drivers for !PS functions on 3 printers
Reinstall Windows Drivers for 7 printer configurations
Reinstall Scanner software for two scanners
Reinstall/Download programs/critical updates for 7 media programs (estimated 5 hours for patch downloads, minimum, but not all are immediately essential)
Reinstall 3Com driver files and config utilities
Reinstall Western Digital Hard Drive utiltities
Reinstall SoundBlaster control panel, utilities, and MIDI banks
Reconfigure MIDI instrument inputs
Reinstall digital camera interface programs (2)
Reinstall NVIDIA DVD manager/viewer
Reinstall two CD/DVD burner programs
Reinstall TextBridge OCR program
Reinstall whatever else I'd have to look at my records to recall.
Selectively configure sharing of all of above for other machines on my LAN.
Re-Register and verify configuration for Microsoft Updates after everything is working again.
Copy active data files³ from backup

³ 20 or 30 GB of data files would probably be considered "large" for most people; but I do keep closer to 80 GB of data files on my system HD. Straight across data transfer from my backup HD would take 2 or 3 hours, with some additional time for a few separate "small backups" that are on CDs.

Yeah, I think one might plan on a weekend, if ya didn't want to sleep a lot.

IF YOU CAN do the setup once, and mirror it to a backup drive that isn't connected to your system (except briefly for updates) you can mirror it back (after reformatting your system drive) in perhaps 2 to 5 hours, for a setup comparable to what I've got. If you've got the resources to do this, you could also consider just swapping hard drives (assuming your mirror was made as a bootable one), make the one removed your new backup, and make a new mirror back to it at your leisure (but preferably promptly).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: pavane
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:41 AM

I used to have a SONY Vaio laptop which was provided with a system recovery disk.

When the 4gb hard disk died, the smallest replacement available was 10gb, but the recovery disk couldn't cope, and only treated it as 4gb. It wrote its suspend mode private partition (non-DOS) after that, in the middle of the drive. Completely screwed up the entire disk, and I was never able to use suspend after that. Lots of other things never worked properly either.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:05 AM

I enjoyed having a laptop when I bought mine back in the late 1990s. I was able to upgrade it as far as Win98 before it balked at the OS software. It is now a non-connected toy in my teenage son's room. He uses it for word processing and playing solitaire. I won't buy a laptop with my own money again because they are too hard to work on. I think my next computer from work will be a laptop so I can use the software for the office, and I'll get a docking station here, but they can do the maintenance and upkeep.

Give me a desktop where I can get in and easily change out things if I need to.

John, that is quite an impressive summary of the format/installation process. When I help any of my elderly neighbors with a computer or dialup problem I usually know I'm going to need a few hours because invariably I have to plan to download then install what they need, even if I don't need to do anything like reinstall an OS. When I can I download and burn files to a CD at my house (via a DSL connection) and take it with me.

The GUI screens we see when we do the work are much easier to use, and there is not much need to remember DOS commands. But it is still very time consuming.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 06:55 PM

Well, whatever it was, the computer died this afternoon. Permanent blue screen of death.

Message: "Unmountable boot volume" lead me to my office computer to learn that I could possibly boot it from the XP disk since the boot.ini was no doubt damaged. Didn't work. So I did some more searching and found the Microsoft file to download to then burn to six floppies to boot then do a reinstall. First one went in fine, but the second floppy brought the message that it couldn't load file \ntkrnlmp.exe and gave error code 7.

Back to the computer. \ntkrnlmp.exe in that usage won't load if there is a bad RAM card or if the BIOS is messed up. I took out a RAM card, got the same message, put it back and removed the other. Same message. Must be the BIOS--what are the odds that both RAM cards would die simultaneously?

Dell has a BIOS update (came out in Feb of this year) at their web site for this particular computer, but I have this computer set for automatic updates when Dell lets us know they're there, so I think it is probably already in there.

I've hacked up my knuckles enough on this today. The kids' dad is going to pick up the CPU and the disks with it and see if a techie friend of his at work can figure it out. I wonder if buying a cheap hard drive, putting it in and reinstalling the computer on it then putting the old drive in in a slave position might just take care of it and not lose their data. $50 would take care of it, but his friend probably can tinker and do more testing before we get to that point.

Bleh. It's only Thursday. What as week it has been.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:13 PM

Try going into the BIOS and see if you can reset to the default settings.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:22 PM

Re Laptops, I like my Dell Lattitude. I'd not considered getting one but this was bought for me second hand when I was in hospital.

It's no substitute for a desktop but I use it a fair bit. One use I often find for it is more or less using it as a second monitor. I might have help files open or a web page open on it while doing something on the desktop.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:45 PM

Laptops are great when you need them, but anyone who says they're "just as good as a desktop," IMO just isn't a real user. I've not found one with a decent keyboard, the drives are only about 1/4 as fast (which is compensated somewhat by the unavailability of larger drives) and any maintenance or upgrade invariably runs into "proprietary parts" limitations.

Not too long ago, nearly every laptop used a different "special" chip package for RAM, so if you waited a year or two to get all the RAM you needed, or if a chip failed, you simply couldn't get the chips to repair or increase RAM. They'd stop making one "special" as soon as a new model with a different package hit the stores. There seems to be more standardization of memory chips for laptops now, so that problem may not be quite as bad for more recent models. Batteries and swappable hard drives and CD/DVD drives are often "model specific" and may be discontinued just before you need a new one. Docking stations can be handy, but ones with "model specific features" often seem to disappear from the market while the new model laptop that requires it is still being offered for sale.

Stilly -

It's not really too uncommon to see multi-strip failures in RAM, especially if the failure is from "external causes." A line transient that zaps one memory strip is likely to get several, and any defect in any RAM chip usually completely disables the machine. While lightning bolts and falling line poles are the usual causes, a failure in an internal component in the computer can sometimes do it. Adjacent hot parts and old age can sometimes seem to be the cause.

It's actually unlikely that Dell would download a BIOS update as part of their automatic updates. A BIOS update requires "absolute privacy" and 100% control of the machine for safe installation, and an "automatic" installation couldn't be assured that someone wouldn't click the mouse at the wrong time. It's likely that you'll have to do a manual download of that update and manually install it, although I can't say that's a provable and immutable fact.

Most BIOS updates are to fix some problem that a few people run into, often with hardware devices or software programs that only a few people have. They're "critical" only to those who have run into the problem, so it's rare to see a "general distribution."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 09:33 PM

Agreed over BIOS updates John. I was thinking some setting in the BIOS might have gone astray for some reason. I've had problems occur with PCs before and opted of a option such as "Load Fail Safe Defaults" and lo and behold things are working. It's happened on PCs who's owners wouldn't have a clue how to enter the BIOS and no, it hasn't been a dead battery.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:06 PM

I couldn't get it to let me near the BIOS. I'll try it again later when I don't have kids watching over my shoulder.

Is the "recovery console" what they call the partion on the hard drive in some computers (like my HP) where the backup of the drivers and the operating system are housed? I have it in the HP, but Dell sent all of the disks, seemingly eschewing that zone.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:46 AM

This morning I started it up and was able to at least reset the BIOS settings back to the factory default. It didn't help. I sent the service tag number to my ex to take a look at (I haven't had time to do the research beyond the messages I get on screen so far) and it looks like there is tech support for a couple of years more. I'll compose an email with the situation as it has unfolded and see if I can't talk to someone one the phone later about how to address this event.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:51 AM

Well good luck, let us know the outcome.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: artbrooks
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 12:21 PM

Calling Dell? I hope you are good with the Indian (South Asian) dialect of English...it is quite different from the American dialect.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:09 PM

No problem there, Art. I work at a university with a very high foreign student population, many of them Indian and Pakistani engineering MA and Ph.D. students. I just find the customer service affectation of Western names a bit off-putting. I'd rather know I'm speaking with Parvati or Ruchi than have an Indian voice tell me "my name is Tammy" so these dull American ears at least (apparently) have something familiar to start with when conversing with tech support in India.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 06:49 PM

SRS -

You asked earlier about the "Recovery Console." It is apparently a WinXP feature. Apparently I've used components of it (rarely) without ever seeing that name applied to what I was doing.

Ordinarily I'd say look it up in Help on your own machine, but that wouldn't be too helpful with a dead machine.

The Intro information from WinXP help search for "Recovery Console" is:
[cut-n-paste]

Recovery Console overview

If safe mode and other startup options do not work, you can consider using the Recovery Console. This method is recommended only if you are an advanced user who can use basic commands to identify and locate problem drivers and files. In addition, you must be an administrator to use the Recovery Console.

Using the Recovery Console, you can enable and disable services, format drives, read and write data on a local drive (including drives formatted to use NTFS), and perform many other administrative tasks. The Recovery Console is particularly useful if you need to repair your system by copying a file from a floppy disk or CD-ROM to your hard drive, or if you need to reconfigure a service that is preventing your computer from starting properly.

There are two ways to start the Recovery Console:

If you are unable to start your computer, you can run the Recovery Console from your Setup CD.
As an alternative, you can install the Recovery Console on your computer to make it available in case you are unable to restart Windows. You can then select the Recovery Console option from the list of available operating systems on startup.
After you start the Recovery Console you will have to choose which installation you want to log on to (if you have a dual-boot or multiple-boot system) and you will have to log on with your administrator password.

The console provides commands you can use to do simple operations such as changing to a different directory or viewing a directory, and more powerful operations such as fixing the boot sector. You can access Help for the commands in the Recovery Console by typing help at the Recovery Console command prompt.

For information on starting and using the Recovery Console, see Related Topics.

Once you are running the Recovery Console, you can get help on the available commands by typing help at the command prompt.

[end paste - bold added]

There are quite a few additional entries at WinXP Help, but I haven't checked to see if they're the typical Microsoft multiloop back and forth between 3 articles. If you can get the "console" started from an installation/setup CD you should be able to use its internal Help for what you'll need.

If your warranty is still good, and if you can get into Dell, the Recovery Console is probably "for later if needed." (?)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:36 PM

When I got into setup this morning I moved the bootable CD drive to the number 2 spot, following the Floppy A: drive. I should try putting the Dell XP CD in again and see if I can boot from it now.

Tomorrow I'll take the time to make a list and see about how to contact the tech support folks. Thanks for the Recovery Console stuff. That might help.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 12:51 PM

It booted from the CD this moring, but at setup to reinstall it doesn't recognize the file system (NTFS, FAT32, etc.) and wants to format C:. I don't think so. I'm going to get a new hard drive and install it and use this as a slave and see if the kids can't retrieve their data from it. A 300gig hard drive is on sale at Outpost (Fry's) for $89. Maybe this is a little computer karma, eh?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 12:54 PM

Doublecheck with Dell (that is the Dell, right) on the size of the HD. I had to get a new one last year, and they told me that the max size was 200gig.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:17 PM

How old was your computer? This one is about 15 months. Probably can handle a pretty large one, but yes, I check the specs as far as upgrades.

The 300 gig one is now out of stock (good price, went fast!) so I'd probably have to downsize if I want to do it in the next day or two on a shoestring.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 02:54 PM

I feel somewhat obligated to provide some information in defense of ClintonHammond, lest anyone presume that he's completely mad. While I can't necessarily defend him on all subjects to which he speaks, his comments on "reformat and reinstall" as a recovery method for Windows do in fact have some support from "experts" in some particular contexts.

A fairly recent brief article in eWeek may (or not) clarify the "expert opinion."

Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible, By Ryan Naraine, April 4, 2006, eWeek.

"… a Microsoft security official said businesses should consider investing in an automated process to wipe hard drives and reinstall operating systems as a practical way to recover from malware infestation."

Note, at the added boldface, that the statement was in the context of IT managers, where several, if not many, machines must be maintained, and where software programs and in some cases setup can generally be dictated by Company/IT management. The context in which the statement is applicable I believe tacitly assumes that critical data is stored remote from the machines where this method is suitable.

A particular problem for the company IT manager is that networked machines are subject to the "one infected, all infected" so that one machine cleared of an infection may be reinfected by its neighbors while you're clearing the next one, so a "ZAP" method may be the only practical way to get them all clean.

The same ZD communication that linked the above eWeek article also offered a "comment" in the same newsbyte that may be of more interest to typical individual users, at Malware Grifters, 03.22.06, PC Magazine by Lance Ulanoff.

It may come to a time when it will be necessary for individual users to plan for "wipe and replace" backups, and it's a viable option for anyone equipped to do it that way now; but as outlined in our previous discussion here (IMO) that time is not quite here and most users don't have the resources to use it effectively now. Ask me again in a few weeks, and maybe ...

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 04:07 PM

Re post "JohnInKansas Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:47 PM"

With that much crap on your system I can see why it takes so long to reinstall.....

7 printers???
2 scanners???
7 media programs?!?!
etc.....

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 04:17 PM

John said 7 printer configurations, not 7 printers. I'm not sure (but will soon learn) why 2 scanners but I don't find John's list startling in terms of requirements for his system. Peoples needs to vary...

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 04:22 PM

Of course all that might sway you more towards fixing. It is to me really a trade off between time likely to be taken for a fix, likelyhood of actualy acheiving the fix on one hand and expected time for format and reinstall on the other.

The way I see it is that individuals could have good reason to go one way or the other...

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 05:36 PM

This is Dell's list of upgrade type things they recommend for the Dimension 4700 computer the kids have. I think part of the strain on this computer is the heavy duty game playing that goes on. So this looks like a good replacement hard drive. Better, perhaps, for gaming. The price is a good feature also.

My question--Dell talks about 7200 RPM Internal Serial ATA Hard Drive. (Is this where the "SATA" comes from?) Maxtor has an Ultra ATA 133 Interface (UATA)-- are they interchangeable? Or am I looking at something where I have to fit the drive to a particular type of cable or power setup?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 05:40 PM

Re the Clinton Hammond discussion of reinstalling: reinstalling the operating system was never out of the question--it just isn't something that is casually or frequently done. Since I found this morning that the computer can't "see" what is on the C: drive and wants to format it, I think reinstalling isn't an option on this drive if I want to preserve the data.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 06:04 PM

Never mind. I found one that looks like a better fit. Had to search a little to get their system to give me the right one, very similar to the other and same price.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 06:15 PM

I think the first drive you gave is an IDE type. As far as I can make out from the Dimension 4700 documentation, you just have primary IDE which can take 2 drives and 2xSATA connectors. It should go if you only have one CD/DVD device but it's not really a good plan.

Second one seems fine.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 06:18 PM

I'm not sure you will be able to get the data off your other disk BTW but it's worth a try and assuming the old disk isn't damaged/faulty, I don't think having a spare/extra capaicity ever does any harm.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 08:03 PM

Keeping up with those critically important acronyms! The computer has two DVD drives (one is a burner). I'll look up the specs on this one before I pick it up. I agree, the data may be a wash. My ex has a friend who is pretty good at data recovery, even from dead drives, so we will have a shot at it that way if my way doesn't work.

I'll have to keep track of how long it takes to put in the OS and all of the drivers and programs and such. It'll take at least a weekend, probably more (to bring this back around to an earlier point!)

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:50 PM

SRS -

I think Jon has it right, that you want an SATA drive.

The Dell Dimension 4700 User Manual (.pdf) shows your machine with two SATA connections and two EIDE connections (around page 72). The general description indicates you can install up to 2 hard drives and up to two optical drives. It appears to assume that only SATA Hard Drives will be used, and that the opticals will be the older ATA/EIDE kind.

(There's also a separate place to plug in a Floppy Drive.)

In principle, you should be able to install an ATA Hard Drive, but only if you remove one of the DVD drives; and you probably wouldn't want that.

The User Manual (probably same as on your installation CD) actually looks fairly good, at least compared to some I've seen; but it gives only one recommended action of significance when a hard drive isn't recognized (by Windows), which is to "scan for viruses." I'm not sure how you do that if the drive isn't recognized at least at a Command prompt.(?) (Apparently hard drives supplied by Dell never have hardware problems.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 10:13 AM

John,

Thanks! I realized the serial drive was what I needed when I started looking to see what the acronyms were identifying. And thank you very much for the analysis of the types of drives.

I've been pondering when to put on a larger drive, knowing it needed one, but there is always a qualifier. In this case, it is that my daughter is going to college in the fall and will be getting her own computer to take with her. This one that is temporarily disabled is the property of both kids (they even paid about a third of the original price when we bought the first one, that was stolen last year--this is the second in the "kids' computer" series, courtesy Allstate Insurance). It will become more the property of the kid at home, but not entirely. When she comes home on weekends she'll have access to it, and so I don't expect the volume of stuff on it to go down any. I'll probably get her an external hard drive for backing up her college computer (and she needs to also save things on disk). I haven't gotten an external backup for this computer because it is mostly full of games and music. We have differing views on the value of that "data." :)

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:18 PM

SRS -

I think we've discussed external drives some in other threads. I've not found the common USB-Externals too reliable, having had three failures in 4 drives in the past couple of years.

When LiK's 30 GB hard drive ran out of space, and since I couldn't "add an HD" in her Win2K PC, I got an "External USB Case" and put a standard desktop 160GB drive in it, mirrored the system, and then put the new 160GB drive in the PC with the old 30GB in the case for an "external spare." Thus far good results.

My son had a total HD failure in his Gateway, while they were "visiting for a few days" (now in the 14th month), so when I picked up the replacement I got two new 160GB drives and put one of them in an External USB Case for use as a backup.

I do have one surviving "actual external USB drive" connected to my machine as a second drive.

I find that I can make complete backup copies of all the data from son's 160GB, Lin's 160GB, Lin's 30GB, and My 120GB internal and 180GB external on the one "backup 160GB." (Of course my data is 80% of the load :<)). To mirror the system and programs along with the data would of course take a lot more space.

Especially for a laptop, I believe you can get the "External USB Case" configuration for the smaller "laptop size" Hard Drives. If you got the smaller case and put a "laptop HD" in it, its possible that you'd get much better survival rate in a portable (or dormitory) use. Laptop drives are slower and a little more expensive, but they generally do not leave the read/write arm "hovered" over the disk. The arm returns to a park position between nearly every seek/read/write, so movement of the drive is less likely to cause a scab by hitting the disk surface. Most desktop style HDs now just leave the arm "wherever" until the next seek command, so any physical movement of the drive" when there's power on can damage the disk. (All desktop drives in rememberable history should "Park" the heads when power is off, so they can be moved around with fair safety once everything is stopped.)

You can, of course, get "Portable External USB Drives" that are intended to be "movable" (with care), but I'd expect that they're prettty much just a laptop drive in the external case as I've described. You'd need to check which is more economical, of course.

Any "external drive" can be damaged any time it's moved with power on, or while it's "coasting down" after turnoff; so they need to be treated with extreme caution. Being careful with a "ruggedized" portable drive is still recommended, but you shouldn't have to be quite as paranoid.

Even with a fair number of games, a drive in the 120GB - 180GB range should be sufficient for a kid for a semester in college. If you can train them, they should probably burn their academic backups to CD on a daily basis, simply because academic schedules deman instant recovery when something happens. Nothing ever fails except on the night before the paper is due.

If they're into lots of music, they'll probably really need (I can hear the whine) one of the new Western Digital 1TB drives, but I don't think they can be considered portable. They are less than $1K (US) now though.(?)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 06:42 PM

John,

I was planning to pick up the 200gig drive when I went over to Fry's today, but that is an Internet only special so I picked up a 300gig Seagate for $90. Either way it is about $30 per 100gig. I'll be working on the kids' computer for a while.

My daughter wants (fortunately) a desktop for her dorm room. They are just so much easier to work on and they're faster. There are computers all over campus, flash drives can carry content (and many, at least at my university library, have fully-functioning productivity software available for working on that content). She can email large files to herself, she can save them on disk, CD, or flash drive. She can even print them on paper. She can work on her computer in her dorm room or at my house or her father's house. A laptop isn't part of our plans.

I did tell her she'd have to backup her work, and we'll probably get a firewire or USB external hard drive for a big backup every so often.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 07:25 PM

SRS - I sort of assumed you'd be making good plans. She should practice making data CDs on a machine she's used to before taking off, and be aware of the filename restrictions for CD backup. My experience does NOT support using DVDs for data backup, but modern equipment may be better than mine. If you can set her machine up before she takes off, a system mirror, to CD if it will fit, or to DVD if her machine has a player, that includes her setup preferences might be worth looking at, but wouldn't be a must-do priority.(?)

Even a desktop in some dorms/OCrooms can get some pretty rough treatment, although we'd presume your daughter wouldn't engage in unladylike activities (in her room?)(?).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 01:10 AM

Second try: (I bumped a key and my message vanished--I'd like to know what key that was, to avoid it!)

I will be getting her computer in a couple of weeks, once we know what all features will be best. It'll be another Dell (she is accustomed to them). She'll be the envy of her brother in having her own computer and possibly in her bedroom (though I have a nice living room table I may use because I need to be able to check it and she might just be like a lioness guarding her cubs if I let her put it in her room. . . )

I'll have it set up for several weeks to work out the bugs and to decide what sort of backup system to use.

I've been installing the new equipment this evening. I put in the new drive, partitioned the disk (I'm using one, the rest isn't formatted to use yet--that can come later). Operating system, productivity software, firewall, etc. It took a few tries to get the wireless network hooked up--they never seem to go easily, but I think it is okay now. Downloading 50 updates from Microsoft right now.

Evening one, and a lot is done, but there are many more things to do on this computer before I turn it back over to the kids. For a "later" project, I put the old hard drive into the second slot but I didn't attach it to the harness and power cord. I'll leave that for after I have the new drive working okay, then we'll go take a peek at the other one.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 01:29 AM

SRS -

To lighten your day when you take a break from working on your hard drives, you might take a look at Tech: How fast does a CD spin? where a (brief) description of the first ever hard drive is posted. A couple of posts that follow in that thread give some speculation about what happens next year - or at least soon?.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 02:28 AM

I saw the thread, I haven't read it. I have the rudimentary computer up and running, complete with password protected accounts for all users. I haven't reattached the old drive yet. Maybe tomorrow, maybe I'll wait a couple of days.

Query: If there are programs and their assorted data files on that second (now non-booting disk) along with a registry that is no longer the registry of reference, will my son have to reinstall his game then associate his files with the ones on the old drive to get it to take up from where he left off?

SRS

BTW: Microsoft had 50 updates, some of them very large, that had to download into this computer. They were for XP and for Office. Took an hour or more just for the 70meg of updates before it started installing them.

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 04:19 AM

As recently as your machine was purchased, I'd guess that you probably got the SP1 and SP2 patches both included in your original installation, so you got the small update package. My original installation didn't have those two, but I did order the CDs for both so that I could reinstall and patch up to that point before I'd have to connect and start downloading. Both of them were installed from the CDs on my 3 WinXP machines, so I didn't have to download them.

Received as they were issued, my "Patch List" in the programs folder shows more than 125 or so installed. As later patches come out, earlier ones are rolled into the later ones, so the 50 odd ones you got with download should include everything in the 125 that I got incrementally.

Office patches that I noticed haven't been too frequent, with the biggest being the macro virus patch and a couple of buffer overrun fixes. There are a few optional Office patches that wouldn't be included in the automatic downloads that might be of interest, but it would depend largely on what browser features you use. Several of the optional office fixes were for things that are turned off by default and that most people are unlikely to discover could be turned on.

Aside from the Microsoft stuff, most OEM disks will load some stuff by other (non-Microsoft) makers. One of the really irritating bugs is with Macromedia Flash. The had a rather significant vulnerability in the versions recently provided by the OEM makers, and they've been less than open about pushing the patch. Your recent machine might have the latest version, but if not it's a rather large download. Adobe has purchased Macromedia fairly recently, so you get it from the Adobe site - if you want to use Flash. (I'd rather not use it, but it seems necessary for a lot of web sites.)

Both Real Player and QuickTime, if you use them, have had minor patches disquised as "new versions." Nothing that I've seen reported on them looked particularly threatening; but if you want to plug everything possible, you'll want to check for new versions or at least to see that anything installed from your Instl CD is the latest thing.

It would be nice to be able to say that on a campus connection she could rely on the campus network for firewall protection so AV alone would be enough, but few campus networks are really clean, and many of them have more script-kiddies and bot-weenies inside the network firewall than most of us are exposed to out in the wild wicked world. (I'm assuming she'll be on the school's net, and probably will use it for web and email?) Some schools make up nice little booklets on how to be compatible and safe, or may tell you on a web page; but the quality of advance info you get can be extremely variable. I've heard rumors of a couple of campus IT managers who claim that individual firewalls are "incompatible" with their networks. I don't think I really believe it, but it might not hurt to see if the school would like to offer an opinion about what should - or should not - be on a student's machine. (And leave a little space on the HD for things they might claim she has to add.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 12:07 PM

On her computer I will install access to my Earthlink services for Firewall and Antivirus, assuming I can use one of my eight accounts to set her up even remotely. She won't be going through their network to get access, so I think it will work. She'll go through the campus infrastructure to reach the Earthlink stuff, but she doesn't use Earthlink as her homepage. I don't know if she'll use the campus one or not, but she needs to check in there regularly for various reasons. I have to see if I need the master account password to keep her connected or if her secondary password will keep her connected. She'll be exposed to the campus crud you mention.

I still have to put in things like Adobe Reader, I have a copy of the Dreamweaver Suite (prior to the Adobe purchase), etc. Lots of downloads for Dreamweaver. And several smallish pieces of equipment and drives. And a bonkers printer I have to troubleshoot.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 06:15 PM

SRS re: your query on games.

Many games have websites with FAQ that may offer help.

In the absence of info on the specific games, the safest method would be for him to reinstall the games. The reinstallation will likely make folders same-named as the folders on the old drive. He may be able to copy just the file(s) that kept his game status into the new folders created by the installation to recover where he was in the games. It's impossible to say what filenames for the game history might be, but he may be able to recoginize them if he looks "intelligently." Sometimes it's easy, and sometimes not.

A Win Explorer search in the game folder for files "modified after" a date just prior to the last time the game was played may(?) reveal what files get updated during play to help narrow the choices.

I can't guarantee this will work, but if it does it could be simpler than attempting to rebuild the game from the inside to point to different locations.

If it doesn't work as expected, he should of course uninstall the game (on the new drive) before reinstalling to clear anything messed up by the copying.

A few games I've heard of appear to have an "import identity" function so that a visiting player can bring his/her history to the game on another machine, but I have no idea how common this is. It's probably more common in multi-player games(?). It might be worth looking for, once the game is reinstalled and before trying to fix it, if it sounds like a possibility.

A last resort, if nothing else works, would be to copy the game folder to the new drive as a complete folder. It might run, but probably not. An "overlay reinstall" sometimes - with some programs - may see the folder(s) you copied as an "older version," and will copy the program files and registry entries, but may attempt to preserve "settings" from the older version (which may or may not include player histories.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage on that other computer
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 07:43 PM

John,

Thanks--I hadn't thought of that. As long as it parked all of it's files in one directory I could give that a try.

We're sorting out how the screen looks (there is a jerkiness to scrolling and moving windows that wasn't here before. One part of it was to change the appearance so it doesn't try to show the window contents when you're moving the window, but the scrolling is still jerky.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Taskmgr.exe or XP on Windows problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 12:54 AM

SRS -

Your graphics card toolbox program (even if it's just a motherboard "integrated graphics" thing) may have an adjustment for "Hardware Acceleration." You may also find the same thing in Control Panel - Display, depending on what the PnP setup decided your graphics hardware is. Often at Display on the Settings tab, the Advanced button will offer to open the "real graphics card" setup; but this varies with the hardware you have. A few machines may not have an accessible adjustment for this, but it's fairly common on recent ones I've seen.

Most of the time the acceleration can be set to "maximum" but sometimes it does something similar to what you describe if set too high for the hardware.

Some flat panel monitors also get testy if you try to set at anything other than their preferred resolution. Newer ones are more flexible, but some older laptops, and I would presume some similar era desktop FP monitors, show you lots of different resolutions but then curse at you and change it back if you try to select one other than what they want. Sometimes they'll let you set an "off" resolution, but then they misbehave to make you sorry you did that, and you have to apologize to them to get them to work right again.

A worn/dirty scroll wheel on a mouse can do some similar things, but you'd likely make that connection pretty easily if you use it for scrolling.

John