BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...

Subject: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 08:13 PM

...get richer...

Thes excerpts from June's Mother Jones magazine:

The Perks of Privilege
____________

Well, I'm typed out... Maybe more later if folks want more...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: number 6
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 08:45 PM

Nice reading Bobert ... I must go now and pop open another bottle of Don Perignon, light up a nice big Havana stogie and get back to some serious online trading.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 11:38 PM

"Let no millionare get left behind"

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 10:47 AM

Ah, yes, Paris Hilton really needed that tax relief.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: pdq
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 10:58 AM

MEMO FROM MEXICO   By Allan Wall

Meet The World’s Third-Richest Man—And The Nine Other Mexican Billionaires

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 11:25 AM

The growing disposition to tax more and more heavily large estates left at death is a cheering indication of the growth of a salutary change in public opinion.... [from Andrew Carnegie: The Gospel of Wealth, 1889]

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 12:30 PM

The class war is being waged in Britain also ...with New Labour acting as a kind of Robin Hood in reverse ...robbing the poor in order to reward the already staggeringly rich and powerful.
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 01:01 PM

So, two facts from this. Don't work for Walmart and don't work for minimum wage.

Well, there is a third, hard fact: If you want to remain a part of the poor and socalled downtrodden, then chose one of the above.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 03:30 PM

Guest,24 Jun 06 - 01:01 PM, if nobody worked for Walmart or for the minimum wage, where would you buy all of your cheap goods and services?

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 04:35 PM

If the only jobs available where you live are minimum wage and you can't afford to move, where else do you work?
When I was in college, the jobs on campus were all minimum wage.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 08:39 PM

That's nice, GUEST. But folks have a penchant for eating...especially if their kids are hungry.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 09:52 PM

According to BBC Business Report, Holdings by UK banks of private Russian funds have reached 58 billion pounds. The program showed a Russian couple buying a London apartment for 3 million pounds.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 10:01 PM

...kids are still hungry....

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 10:05 PM

Right, Rapaire, and that is a very good reason NOT to work for a minimum wage that was never intended to provide for a family.

And CarolC, I would not step foot in Walmart for any reason. The reason that they are leaders in sales is the bulk of their goods last, at best, a third as long as quality items do which are never priced more than twice as much. I was involved in a study 3 years ago
and was amazed. The items were socks, jockey shorts, belts and T shirts. I found that smaller discount stores who keep their advertising costs to a minimum fared much better with the life expectancy of the products mentioned above.

Alice, were you raising a family while in college? No, I didn't think so and no doubt the minimum wage job was not your entire source of life.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 11:06 PM

Yes, the minimum wage job WAS my entire support, along with having to pay tuition and fees with that job.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jun 06 - 11:13 PM

Back then minimum wage was something like $1.68 an hour. I think the cost of living in proportion to the minimum wage was easier to live with than it is now. I did not own a car. I walked or rode a bike for transportation. I lived in substandard housing and shared rooms with friends to pay rent and utilities. I was undernourished. I did not buy new clothes or shoes, only thrift store when I could afford that. I did not go to the doctor, dentist, entertainment or restaurants. I spent my money on rent, utlities, and school. I was only lucky that I didn't have any serious health issues or accidents.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 12:28 AM

When I began working in college I was making sixty-five cents per hour. Nothing taken out, paid in cash every two weeks, work as many hours as I wanted or could. Then I got on college work-study. My wage went up to USD 1.15 per hour, but taxes were taken out and I was paid monthly and could work no more than 15 hours per week.

That brought me up to minimum wage, but it was effectively a cut in pay. If I hadn't had the National Guard pay coming in I couldn't have made it, even with the loans I had from the government.

GUEST, if you have kids you work at whatever you can get. Minimum wage, or even less. Ask a migrant farm worker. I didn't say it's right or just; it is what is and all the rhetoric about right and wrong won't change it.

Likewise, if you're working for minimum wage you do what you have to to make ends meet. If that means buying at Walmart you buy at Walmart. If that means wearing clothes or eating food given to you by charity, you do that too.

I know, friend. I grew up that way -- only there wasn't a Walmart then.

Come tell the unemployed out on the Shoshone-Bannock Reservation they shouldn't shop at Walmart. Or the rancher or farmer who's facing another bank loan to keep afloat until harvest.

I don't condone Walmart. But I understand as only someone who's been there can about why.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 01:56 AM

I found that smaller discount stores who keep their advertising costs to a minimum fared much better with the life expectancy of the products mentioned above.

Oh yeah? And what do those "smaller discount stores" pay their employees? I can tell you, because I used to work for one of them. They pay just exactly the same as Walmart.

Just how many stores do you think you shop in that pay their employees significantly more than minimum wage? The answer is precious few. And that is also true of most of the other businesses you frequent on a regular basis, including gas stations, restaurants, hotels, and any number of other service sector businesses.

If you want to criticize people for working for minimum wage, maybe you ought to put your money where your mouth is and not give your money to any businesses that pay minimum wage.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 06 - 11:51 AM

CarolC - My comparison was about the quality of the goods when advertising costs are compared. I said NOTHING about wage comparison.

And you accuse others of not discerning? You don't either even after you repeat the sentence.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 06:34 AM

I said this...

Guest,24 Jun 06 - 01:01 PM, if nobody worked for Walmart or for the minimum wage, where would you buy all of your cheap goods and services?

And you followed with this...

And CarolC, I would not step foot in Walmart for any reason.

Did you even have a point, or were you just engaging in some random, stream of consciousness, free association, verbal outpourings?

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:29 PM

Its sad when a man with 43 Million dollars does not even qualify for the Forbes richest people list anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 12:35 PM

I was once told (by someone who was smart enough to know better) that "no one should have to work for less then the average wage". When I tried to tell her that was an impossibility, I got accused of being a conservative.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:10 PM

MMario,

You know all those minimum wage workers take about 40% of their sick leave on Mondays and Fridays, don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Amos
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:55 PM

was once told (by someone who was smart enough to know better) that "no one should have to work for less then the average wage".

No you're BOTH contradicting yourselves. If s/he didn't understand her/his own words, she wasn't smart enough to know better...


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 02:57 PM

Warren Buffett will be giving his fortune, at the tune of US $1.5 billion per month, to the Gates Foundation.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:15 PM

Carol C - what part of the market test I said I participated in did you not understand? I will try to help. Or are you simply at odds for a good response?

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:17 PM

so guest - you are saying that the same product and brand names found at walmart are inferior to the identically packaged product found for higher prices at other stores?

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:24 PM

If I'm reading GUEST right, it would appear that he/she is under the impression that working for minimum wage is a matter of choice. "Oh, gee, I can work here for minimum wage, or I can go to work over there and make $25.00 and hour with health insurance and a pension plan. But I like cleaning toilets, so I think I'll just stay here." Well, it doesn't work that way. The majority of people don't have a choice. It's either work for minimum wage or don't work at all.

And a lot of conservatives I run into seem to be under that same impression. To me, that indicates that they are not in touch with the real world. Any more than George W. Bush and his minions are.

And as far as education is concerned, when I first entered the University of Washington in fall of 1949, quarterly tuition was $53.00, or $159.00 for the school year. Now, yearly tuition at the U. of W. is going up to $5988.00. And that's minuscule compared to Ivy League universities. These days, s little learning is an expensive thing. But not having a college education can be even more expensive. So you're screwed either way you go.

In some countries, university education is free. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: number 6
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 04:08 PM

"you are saying that the same product and brand names found at walmart are inferior to the identically packaged product found for higher prices at other stores?"

In some cases this is a fact .... example is Michelin tires. This brand does not carry a Michelin warranty, but a Walmart warranty ... reason being, Walmart dictates the price with their suppliers ... so, to keep the costs in line the suppliers will specifically make a product line for Walmart, resulting in a product that in some cases does match what they sell elsewhere.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:40 PM

When you're the big kahuna, you can dictate to the little kahunas.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: jimmyt
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 05:47 PM

Don, I have a little trouble with the comment, "in some countries, university education is free." That seems to make no sense in the big economic picture. How do they pay for those big buildings and the faculty and all the books and testtubes? I bet somewhere in the scheme of things, money is moving from one place to another.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 07:17 PM

I don't know about Asia and various other parts of the world, but in Europe, I understand that there are a number of institutions of higher education that are free. When discussing the cost of education, several foreign students of my acquaintance in the past have commented on this. I haven't been able to turn up a standard list, but I understand that Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, and other countries as well have institutes that offer free higher education.

As far as buildings and other facilities are concerned, in most cases they've been there for hundreds of years. I presume that taxes pay salaries and upkeep—which, of course, raises the cry of "But their taxes are so high!" To which I respond, "Yes, but look what they get for their taxes!" Undoubtedly, as in the United States, there are endowments as well. They consider education an investment in the country's future. Also, there are many institutions where the tuition charges are less that 1,000 Euros per school year, way less than tuition charges in the U. S., but even so, there are European students who complain about the costs.

We have a lot of Mudcatters ftom across the pond. Perhaps some of them can shed some light on this.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: jimmyt
Date: 26 Jun 06 - 07:59 PM

Don, I have to admit I was being a bit tongue -in-cheek with my last post, but I just wanted to make the comment that someone is paying the bill. Maybe not the student, but someone is. Here in Georgia, the Hope Grant pays full tuition and even a book allowance for students who keep a 3.0 grade point average. It pays for any state school, and plays an equal amount to private schools as long as they are in the state of Georgia. It is a wonderful program and allows many people who could otherwise not attend college to go with a minimum of cash outlay. It is paid for by the proceeds of the Georgia Lottery, in my opinion a good use of the funds.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 10:29 AM

MMario-
I hate to differ, but it's perfectly plausible--not just possible--to have a majority of people working for less than the average wage. All it takes is a small number of very highly-paid individuals in the mix. F'rinstance, If you have 100 employees making $10,000 per year and one employee making a million, the average income would be $19,802, and over 99% of the group would be earning below-average wages. Which is why the Median is a better measure in many cases than the Mode, or average.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 03:33 PM

Or are you simply at odds for a good response?

I guess I'm at odds to figure out what that market test (of for that matter any part of your response to my question) has to do with this question of mine...

"Guest,24 Jun 06 - 01:01 PM, if nobody worked for Walmart or for the minimum wage, where would you buy all of your cheap goods and services?"

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: MMario
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 03:39 PM

Dick - it is not possible to have no one working for less then the average wage - which is what the woman said.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 03:40 PM

Dick:

Yes, you are right. But the proposition being debated was "no-one should have to work for less than the average" which is logically contradictory. At least one person has to.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 05:03 PM

I love truffles.

Here's a good idea for tomorrow nite's super .. I suggest you try it with leg of lamb.

Heat some single cream at a low temperature until it boils. Add some grated truffles whilst stirring. This sauce can accompany many different kinds of meat dishes: escalope, leg of lamb, game, etc... or fish, such as salmon, or trout.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 05:06 PM

Re tuition fees in Europe.

In the UK, universities have historically been free, but now charge some fees. In the acaedemic year starting in September, fees are up to £3000, varying considerably with couses and university. Maths at Cambridge has more of a draw than golf course management at golf course management at a former polytechnic.

Students from parts of the UK have their fees paid by the state, while others, and other EU students pay up to £3000. For those from outside the EU, fees of up to £30,000 apply.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 05:11 PM

Hey sIx

Checked your cholesterol level lately?

If it's OK then you are a lucky man to be able to enjoy such rich fare.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 05:31 PM

I appreciate your concerns bobad ... but I'm not gonna worry too much about it ... I get a good workout playing polo weekly.

Hey ...any of you catters have any good leads on a good polo pony?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 06:05 PM

MMario, yes indeed!

Don Firth, what did a new car cost in 1949? I don't think an almost 50 year comparison is logical for anything.

Speaking of boxer shorts, I had to buy some at a Walmart store in a town where Walmart had caused the closing down of the two existing strip malls. As in other areas where this has happened (many times) when Walmart moves in, the underwear was priced about the same as it would be a non-discount place, such as Federated chains or even a Macy's.
The elastic band, upon later (and too late) inspection, looked like it has been cut with a pair of pinking shears. In addition, the stitch lines attaching the band to the rest of the product wondered all over and every inch or so, left the band area altogether. This caused the bands to start separating after a few wearings/laundries.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 06:19 PM

I feel you pain Guest ... I too bought some boxer shorts from Walmart ... I wear size Large, man, this pair was more like size Small ... wore them about 3 times, in absolute misery .... I deceided to delegate them to the car cleaning rag pile (true story).

Shoulda bought them at Winners (TJ Maxx to you American Catters)like I usually do .... just as cheap as Walmart, but much better quality and North American sizes.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 06:21 PM

Polo, sIx, now there's one sport that seems to be the purview of the rich and privileged. The only people I've ever heard that play polo are Prince Charles and Larry Robinson. I get the funny feeling that you're pulling my leg.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 06:27 PM

I concur on the Wal-Mart merchandise, t-shirts and other stuff I've bought there have destructed prematurely due to poor workmanship. I have stopped shopping there on principle, should never have frequented it in the first place. Live and learn.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: Tootler
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 07:05 PM

When I went to University in Britain, not only was tuition free but I was given a grant to live on.

By the time my daughters went to University tuition was still free, but the grants had gone and had been replaced by (inadequate) loans and I ended up paying most of my daughters' living costs. In fact I had to tell my elder daughter I could not help with funding her for an MSc because the younger one deserved her share for her first degree

Now Universities in the UK charge fees. The official line is they can charge up to £3000. In fact the vast majority are charging the full £3000. They cannot afford otherwise as funding to Universities has been falling in real terms for a very long time now. I know, I worked in one.

There is still one thing, though. The fees at Oxford or Cambridge are the same as the University I used to work for. Nevertheless, a recent figure I saw stated that 49% of Oxford Undergraduates came from Public Schools (= very expensive private schools) Which are attended by only 7% of the school population.

Subject: RE: BS: The Perks of Privildge...How the rich...
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 11:27 PM

Bobad ... me jokin about playing polo .... sure am. You would never get me up on a horse!

But I do travel to work each day in a chaise à bras carried by 2 porters. :)

sIx