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BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death

GUEST,sorefingers 09 Jul 06 - 12:45 AM
Peace 09 Jul 06 - 12:49 AM
Little Hawk 09 Jul 06 - 01:06 AM
Bev and Jerry 09 Jul 06 - 01:31 AM
Alba 09 Jul 06 - 09:57 AM
katlaughing 09 Jul 06 - 11:30 AM
Little Hawk 09 Jul 06 - 11:41 AM
GUEST 09 Jul 06 - 11:52 AM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 09 Jul 06 - 12:01 PM
Al 09 Jul 06 - 12:26 PM
GUEST 09 Jul 06 - 02:38 PM
GUEST,Another one of those confounded Leftist radi 09 Jul 06 - 03:00 PM
Al 09 Jul 06 - 03:37 PM
GUEST 09 Jul 06 - 03:46 PM
Amos 09 Jul 06 - 03:48 PM
CarolC 09 Jul 06 - 03:51 PM
CarolC 09 Jul 06 - 03:52 PM
GUEST 09 Jul 06 - 03:59 PM
robomatic 09 Jul 06 - 04:08 PM
Azizi 09 Jul 06 - 04:15 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 09 Jul 06 - 04:50 PM
GUEST,Gazatch 09 Jul 06 - 04:57 PM
Azizi 09 Jul 06 - 04:59 PM
CarolC 09 Jul 06 - 05:15 PM
Little Hawk 09 Jul 06 - 05:44 PM
Little Hawk 09 Jul 06 - 05:49 PM
GUEST 09 Jul 06 - 07:31 PM
Bobert 09 Jul 06 - 08:48 PM
GUEST 09 Jul 06 - 08:50 PM
katlaughing 09 Jul 06 - 09:19 PM
GUEST 09 Jul 06 - 09:55 PM
GUEST,Texas Guest 09 Jul 06 - 10:47 PM
Bobert 09 Jul 06 - 11:02 PM
GUEST 09 Jul 06 - 11:22 PM
Bobert 09 Jul 06 - 11:33 PM
Peace 09 Jul 06 - 11:39 PM
GUEST 10 Jul 06 - 12:55 AM
Peace 10 Jul 06 - 12:58 AM
robomatic 10 Jul 06 - 04:23 AM
GUEST 10 Jul 06 - 07:31 AM
robomatic 10 Jul 06 - 03:26 PM
Little Hawk 10 Jul 06 - 04:15 PM
Bobert 10 Jul 06 - 04:27 PM
282RA 10 Jul 06 - 07:36 PM
katlaughing 10 Jul 06 - 08:15 PM
Al 10 Jul 06 - 09:47 PM
Bobert 10 Jul 06 - 10:25 PM
kendall 11 Jul 06 - 08:01 AM
Little Hawk 11 Jul 06 - 12:46 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 06 - 12:51 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 06 - 01:16 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 06 - 03:40 PM
kendall 11 Jul 06 - 04:28 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 06 - 04:34 PM
Don Firth 11 Jul 06 - 04:40 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 06 - 04:53 PM
Don Firth 11 Jul 06 - 04:58 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 06 - 05:32 PM
GUEST,Another guest 11 Jul 06 - 05:34 PM
GUEST,TIA 11 Jul 06 - 05:43 PM
kendall 11 Jul 06 - 07:27 PM
Al 11 Jul 06 - 10:24 PM
GUEST,Mike Miller 12 Jul 06 - 01:17 AM
kendall 12 Jul 06 - 08:30 AM
GUEST 12 Jul 06 - 10:03 AM
GUEST,Mike Miller 12 Jul 06 - 10:42 AM
Little Hawk 12 Jul 06 - 12:29 PM
kendall 12 Jul 06 - 12:48 PM
Amos 12 Jul 06 - 01:10 PM
CarolC 12 Jul 06 - 02:01 PM
Don Firth 12 Jul 06 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,Mike Miller 12 Jul 06 - 05:48 PM
CarolC 12 Jul 06 - 06:08 PM
Little Hawk 12 Jul 06 - 06:36 PM
Peace 12 Jul 06 - 06:39 PM
Little Hawk 12 Jul 06 - 07:00 PM
robomatic 12 Jul 06 - 07:29 PM
Naemanson 12 Jul 06 - 07:43 PM
GUEST 12 Jul 06 - 08:55 PM
kendall 12 Jul 06 - 09:30 PM
GUEST,Mike Miller 12 Jul 06 - 10:54 PM
Little Hawk 12 Jul 06 - 11:06 PM
Peace 12 Jul 06 - 11:08 PM
Little Hawk 12 Jul 06 - 11:10 PM
Peace 12 Jul 06 - 11:13 PM
CarolC 12 Jul 06 - 11:19 PM
GUEST 12 Jul 06 - 11:26 PM
Peace 12 Jul 06 - 11:38 PM
Peace 12 Jul 06 - 11:43 PM
GUEST 13 Jul 06 - 12:38 AM
CarolC 13 Jul 06 - 12:47 AM
Peace 13 Jul 06 - 12:50 AM
Ebbie 13 Jul 06 - 01:22 AM
GUEST 13 Jul 06 - 02:01 AM
GUEST 13 Jul 06 - 02:50 AM
kendall 13 Jul 06 - 08:05 AM
GUEST,Mike Miller 13 Jul 06 - 08:30 AM
GUEST 13 Jul 06 - 09:29 AM
Susu's Hubby 13 Jul 06 - 10:24 AM
Leadfingers 13 Jul 06 - 12:11 PM
GUEST 13 Jul 06 - 12:45 PM
Peace 13 Jul 06 - 12:57 PM
CarolC 13 Jul 06 - 01:24 PM
Ebbie 13 Jul 06 - 02:51 PM
pdq 13 Jul 06 - 03:19 PM
kendall 13 Jul 06 - 04:44 PM
GUEST 13 Jul 06 - 09:10 PM
GUEST,Mike Miller 13 Jul 06 - 09:16 PM
GUEST 13 Jul 06 - 09:36 PM
GUEST 14 Jul 06 - 12:33 AM
Amos 14 Jul 06 - 12:47 AM
Al 14 Jul 06 - 01:46 AM
GUEST,TIA 14 Jul 06 - 01:55 AM
Peace 14 Jul 06 - 02:10 AM
kendall 14 Jul 06 - 07:44 AM
kendall 14 Jul 06 - 07:48 AM
GUEST 14 Jul 06 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,Mike Miller 14 Jul 06 - 11:14 AM
CarolC 14 Jul 06 - 11:54 AM
Jack the Sailor 14 Jul 06 - 12:02 PM
GUEST 14 Jul 06 - 12:39 PM
GUEST 15 Jul 06 - 09:14 AM
GUEST 15 Jul 06 - 09:16 AM
Naemanson 15 Jul 06 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 15 Jul 06 - 12:36 PM
Don Firth 15 Jul 06 - 12:58 PM
GUEST,Mike Miller 15 Jul 06 - 04:19 PM
Little Hawk 15 Jul 06 - 04:30 PM
GUEST 15 Jul 06 - 05:48 PM
Don Firth 15 Jul 06 - 06:04 PM
Greg F. 15 Jul 06 - 06:48 PM
GUEST 15 Jul 06 - 07:16 PM
Don Firth 15 Jul 06 - 10:32 PM
Greg F. 15 Jul 06 - 10:50 PM
GUEST,Mike Miller 16 Jul 06 - 01:43 AM
kendall 16 Jul 06 - 08:35 AM
GUEST,Mike Miller 16 Jul 06 - 10:35 AM
Amos 16 Jul 06 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,sorefingers 16 Jul 06 - 11:57 AM
Little Hawk 16 Jul 06 - 12:31 PM
kendall 16 Jul 06 - 12:34 PM
Donuel 16 Jul 06 - 01:20 PM
Little Hawk 16 Jul 06 - 01:26 PM
CarolC 16 Jul 06 - 01:30 PM
Don Firth 16 Jul 06 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,Tom Fenner 16 Jul 06 - 03:14 PM
GUEST,Mike Miller 16 Jul 06 - 04:33 PM
CarolC 16 Jul 06 - 04:35 PM
Peace 16 Jul 06 - 04:38 PM
Little Hawk 16 Jul 06 - 05:21 PM
Peace 16 Jul 06 - 10:19 PM
Peace 16 Jul 06 - 10:22 PM
GUEST 16 Jul 06 - 11:50 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jul 06 - 12:20 AM
kendall 17 Jul 06 - 06:33 AM
Donuel 17 Jul 06 - 09:25 AM
Amos 17 Jul 06 - 09:43 AM
Little Hawk 17 Jul 06 - 11:40 AM
Greg F. 17 Jul 06 - 11:58 AM
kendall 17 Jul 06 - 01:17 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jul 06 - 01:24 PM
Don Firth 17 Jul 06 - 03:57 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jul 06 - 04:08 PM
Troll 17 Jul 06 - 05:32 PM
Naemanson 17 Jul 06 - 06:15 PM
Don Firth 17 Jul 06 - 06:54 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jul 06 - 07:30 PM
Don Firth 17 Jul 06 - 08:18 PM
Peace 17 Jul 06 - 08:30 PM
GUEST 17 Jul 06 - 10:10 PM
Don Firth 17 Jul 06 - 10:37 PM
GUEST 17 Jul 06 - 10:50 PM
Troll 18 Jul 06 - 12:10 AM
kendall 18 Jul 06 - 08:06 AM
Little Hawk 18 Jul 06 - 12:43 PM
Ebbie 18 Jul 06 - 02:06 PM
DougR 18 Jul 06 - 06:07 PM
Ebbie 18 Jul 06 - 06:11 PM
kendall 19 Jul 06 - 11:22 AM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 19 Jul 06 - 11:30 AM
beardedbruce 19 Jul 06 - 11:35 AM
Greg F. 19 Jul 06 - 02:27 PM
Amos 19 Jul 06 - 03:53 PM
Don Firth 19 Jul 06 - 04:20 PM
Don Firth 19 Jul 06 - 04:37 PM
kendall 19 Jul 06 - 07:18 PM
Al 19 Jul 06 - 11:37 PM
GUEST 20 Jul 06 - 09:28 AM
Little Hawk 20 Jul 06 - 09:37 AM
Al 20 Jul 06 - 10:28 AM
Little Hawk 20 Jul 06 - 12:33 PM
Don Firth 20 Jul 06 - 01:45 PM
Amos 20 Jul 06 - 09:39 PM
Al 20 Jul 06 - 10:23 PM
Al 20 Jul 06 - 11:23 PM

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Subject: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 12:45 AM

Newsmedia not reporting all the US losses in Iraq and not reporting all the civilian dead, shows the Rupturds for what they really are!

Along with Adolf Hitler and all the other monsters of History, this is the Party Of Death!


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 12:49 AM

Daily Look at U.S. Military Deaths in Iraq

Saturday July 8, 2006 10:31 PM


By The Associated Press

As of Saturday, July 8, 2006, at least 2,545 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. The figure includes seven military civilians. At least 2,009 died as a result of hostile action, according to the military's numbers.

The AP count is five higher than the Defense Department's tally, last updated Friday at 10 a.m. EDT.

The British military has reported 113 deaths; Italy, 32; Ukraine, 18; Poland, 17; Bulgaria, 13; Spain, 11; Slovakia, Denmark three each; El Salvador, Estonia, Netherlands, Thailand, two each; and Australia, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Romania, one death each.

---


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 01:06 AM

Actually, the Democrats and Republicans are both the parties of death. They are almost equally adept at dealing it out around the world. It's so bloody obvious with the Republicans though...they worship every form of macho sabre-rattling and they win elections by implying that their opponents are wimps, cowards, homosexuals and traitors.

That IS the same approach the Nazis used, all right. Discredit the opposition by painting them as unpatriotic, deviant, and gutless.

Never forget that "[excessive and exaggerated]patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings". The Republicans cling to it like a barnacle to the hull of a ship.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 01:31 AM

"Why of course the people don't want war ...But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."

-Hermann Goering, Nazi leader, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II

Bev and Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Alba
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 09:57 AM

Now that qoute causes a shuuuddder down my back Bev and Jerry

My best to You Both
Jude


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 11:30 AM

History does not have to repeat itself IF we keep informed as much as possible, which is a lot easier these days, than during Hitler's time. Here we are discussng the fact there are a lot of similarities, but we've got orgs. such as MoveOn, DefCon (Defend the Constitution,) Give 'em Hell, Harry, and many others putting out more info than anyone could have hoped for back then. Also, see Amos' thread about Impeachment. None of these things would have been as possible back then. We can prevail, imo, but we need to be as visible and vocal as possible, in as many ways as possible.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 11:41 AM

The fact is, the people are being attacked in Goering's example (and in all such examples)...they are being attacked by their own government. Very cleverly too. Their government makes it look as if the attack is coming from either somewhere outside or a disadavantaged minority of people within the country or both.

In other words, scapegoats are found.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 11:52 AM

I wonder if the 'media' is reporting all the deaths in Africa from all the civil wars and ethnic cleansing operations?

What "party of death" gets the credit for that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 12:01 PM

The local parties gets the direct credit for that. Look 'em up. Better yet, go there and talk to the locals about it. They will notice you right off on account of your pale skin, they will figger you're carryin' lotsa credit cards and cash, and it should get real interesting from there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Al
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 12:26 PM

The main political problem in this country, as I see it, is that fundamentalist christians, who form the majority in this country, see conservatism and republicanism as good things.
Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 02:38 PM

A weak thread. CC, they are killing their own, whites need not apply.
And what makes you think I have a pale skin?

And Al, you too, are a malcontent. It's okay as it probably would overload the system if all were content. Plus, I don't remember anyone asking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Another one of those confounded Leftist radi
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:00 PM

Al, you are very much mistaken in your assumption that fundamentalist Christians constitute a majority in the USA. Christians, yes...nominally...but definitely not fundamentalist Christians. I would guess that the fundamentalist you are imagining when you use that word make up, oh, about 20% to 30% of the population at most. (and they do tend to vote solidly Republican, so that makes them a key voting bloc)

BUT....

The ruling religion of the USA is consumerism, not fundamentalist Christianity (and it rules most so-called fundamentalist Christians too!). The ruling church is Wal-Mart. The ruling ethic is conspicuous consumption. The result is collosal ignorance, laziness, boredom, wasted lives, and dozy, confused people who are easily manipulated by TV into supporting their corrupt government because they are too mentally comatose to know any better.

Worry about that if you want to worry about something. It's a far bigger factor than fundamentalism.

The USA is the nation that sold its soul for material conveniences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Al
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:37 PM

Consumerism, fundamentalism, religionism of all types, socialism, communism, nationalism, patriotism, etc. are all the same thing. A sales job, a con job, a set of ideas people get sold or buy into. All bullshit. All isms are bullshit. If you just listen to your heart, you don't need any isms. And you won't go around killing people, destroying the earth, or doing any harm at all. Because you won't be defending your isms. It's the isms that are the culprits, preventing us from being who we really are. It's time for us all to let go of our isms.
Love, Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:46 PM

Al, why don't you just let go?

And where might you be if not for Capitol-ism?

Ah yes, you did not mention Communism - your favorite?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:48 PM

How do you listen to your heart, pray tell, when cruising the aisles of Wal Mart looking for plastic tablecloths for a picnic?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:51 PM

Ahhh... another anti-American, anti-free speech, anti-United States Constitution malcontent. Guest,09 Jul 06 - 03:46 PM would have tried to shut up the Founding Fathers had s/he been around during their time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:52 PM

( ...*Founding Fathers of the United States*)


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:59 PM

CarolC - nothing to do with free speech, simply addressing the rehtoric of an uninformed or misinformed member of a society which resides under the Constitution.
(With the thought in mind that perhaps he doesn't care all that much for it.)

Me un-American, anti-United States????????? Compare my posts with Al's one more time! Perception, please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:08 PM

What is the true 'party of death'?

I think everyone here is intelligent enough so that I don't have to italicize- oh the hell with it:

Text of Alleged al-Qaida Tape:

We declare our responsibility for what happened in Madrid exactly 2.5 years after the attacks on New York and Washington. It is a response to your collaboration with the criminals Bush and his allies.
"This is a response to the crimes that you have caused in the world, and specifically in Iraq and Afghanistan, and there will be more, if God wills it.

"You love life and we love death, which gives an example of what the Prophet Muhammad said. If you don't stop your injustices, more and more blood will flow and these attacks will seem very small compared to what can occur in what you call terrorism.

"This is a statement by the military spokesman for al-Qaida in Europe, Abu Dujan al Afghani."


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:15 PM

"Better yet, go there [to Africa]and talk to the locals about it. They will notice you right off on account of your pale skin, they will figger you're carryin' lotsa credit cards and cash, and it should get real interesting from there."

Shame on you, Chongo Chimp!

I thought you were much better than that. You wouldn't like it if people stereotyped chimps, would you?

May I suggest you enroll post haste in a cultural competency course-if they accept chimps, that is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:50 PM

Al did mention "communism", you shit-for-brains Guest. You were too friggin' lazy to bother even reading his whole post, weren't you? Go back to watchin' "Survivor" and eatin' your cheese dip.

Azizi - Yeah, well...you should hear when I start stereotypin' gorillas. I ain't known for bein' exactly sensitive in all respects.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Gazatch
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:57 PM

Al Queda is not a party. They're an organization. And their origins lay in the ranks of the Mujahedin, Islamic fundamentalists who were armed, trained, and funded by the Reagan administration in the 1980's to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. Osama Bin Laden was an important member of the Mujahedin, and the USA loved him back then and called him a "freedom fighter". Why? Because he was killing Communists for them.

He later discovered that he had simply been used to do the USA's dirty work, upon which the snake turned and bit its handlers.

Without the USA there would BE no Al-Queda. Thank Ronald Reagan for making it all possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 04:59 PM

Chongo: I had hoped that you-more than other chimps-had evolved to a higher order of being.

Silly me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:15 PM

You're trying to shut people up, Guest,09 Jul 06 - 03:46 PM, for expressing viewpoints with which you disagree. That seems pretty un-American to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:44 PM

Chongo has about as many prejudices as the average monster truck and WWF fan. They're not all the same prejudices, but still...about that many, I'd say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:49 PM

As for the Republicans, maybe they should be renamed "the Party of Debt" at this point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 07:31 PM

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 09 Jul 2006 at 11:26:57 PM GMT is:

$8,415,216,882,916.21

However, rest easy. "When President Bush took office five years ago, the national debt was at $5.6 trillion; since then, big budget surpluses have collapsed into huge deficits, and the debt has shot up nearly 50 percent." But Congress has responded. "Congress Sets New Federal Debt Limit: $9 Trillion". Nothing to see here, move along, move along.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 08:48 PM

Yeah, LH is right and this thread should be renamed "Republicans The Party of Death, de joir'...

But seems they've been real good at it... Ain't been since LBJ that a Dem could hold a candle to these guys....

And, yeah, GUEST who posted last is right (Is that you Texas GUEST???).... Not only are these guys real good at killing they are also very good a running the country into financial ruin while doing it which has been the Republican dream going back generations....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 08:50 PM

Nope. Just a guy who wishes to be unnamed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 09:19 PM

Osama is no longer the terrorist du jour. The CIA has closed down their special unit in charge of finding him. Seems he is no longer useful for the fear-mongering of Bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 09:55 PM

Chimp, go suck another 'banana'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 10:47 PM

There is an old saying in American politics: "The democrats will take your money; the republicans will take your life." So just how many lives have been lost or ruined as a result of the invasion of Iraq? Uncle Bill gets impeached for taking his pleasure with a young'un and this shameful clown that currently resides at 1600 Pennsylvania gets reelected? America, sadly - we're not free, and we're not brave - not anymore. Cheers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 11:02 PM

Hear, hear, Texas GUEST!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 11:22 PM

Does this discussion apply to the unborn?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 11:33 PM

Oh geeze, Texas GUEST...

... seems as if we have an uborn GUEST amongst us...

Welcome, unborn GUEST....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 11:39 PM

"Does this discussion apply to the unborn?"

Of course not. The unborn HAVE no rights.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:55 AM

Undoubtedly, the greatest barrier to wisdom is presupposition. It ignores, subverts, skews and twists facts to adhere to its positions.
The Republicans are no more the "party of death" than the Democrats, under whose administrations, WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam were initiated. (You could look it up). The Korean and Vietnamese wars were ended under Republican presidents and, it should be noted, it was Congress that authorized the continued funding of these wars.
Labeling those who disagree with us as warmongers or traitors does not stregnthen our arguments.
Here's the skinny. All nations act in their own self interests and those actions affect other nations. America does not exist in a vacuum. Like it or not, we owe our prosperity and our standard of living to our economic standing. That we have not, always, acted for the universal good goes without saying but, compared to other powerful nations, in history, we have been the least venal. It's easy to point out our warts but doing so, out of historical context, is dogmatic and craven.
Another misconception is this nonsense that Christian Fundimentalist constitute a majority in America. They should be so lucky. What they do constitute is a solid voting bloc, similar to the pro-union voters back in the day. They wield power because most Americans don't vote in general elections and damned near nobody votes in the primaries.

                      Mike Miller


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:58 AM

Well said, Mike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:23 AM

I think this preoccupation with trying to accuse the Republicans as a Party Of Death is a classic case of taking the eye off the ball. Tonight "60 Minutes" repeated their segment on war profiteering, the immense amount of money being dished out to irresponsible parties with low oversight and minimal accounting. "What's the motive with one party in control of the White House and the Congress?"

A preoccupation with the outrageous spending habits of our supposedly 'conservative' party in power would yield a lot more fruitful results in transmitting outrage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:31 AM

Again, well said, Mike Miller!

And Robo, the outrageous spending habits of both parties has me looking for a new 'label'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 03:26 PM

GUEST 10 Jul 06 - 07:31 AM while not in total disagreement with you I point out the fact that the Clinton administration was the epitome of resource husbandry compared to the current setup. The Clinton administration had drastically lowered the deficit while being open to such world-wise policies as support for the Mexican and SE Asian economies when they went into what could have been death spirals. The Clinton Administration was bellicose to the extent of bombing Serbia and sending cruise missiles against Osama.

I think Clinton was more intelligent, more educated, more aware of the world as it is than the current President, although I do not say the current President is stupid. I think he is handicapped by:

Not enough knowledge of the world and world economic, political, historical and military trends.

A political base incorporating in part a voting block of fundamentalists who, paraphrasing Will Rogers, "it's not what they don't know that I'm afraid of, it's the things they do know that just ain't so!"

A lack of support on the part of the Western World that would be far far better off with a show of unity rather than the bickering and grand-standing that we have seen from France and Germany.

Bush could be far worse than he is, however, and the lack of fiscal discipline on the part of the present day Reps is more than matched by a lack of almost any kind of discipline from the Dems.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:15 PM

To expect fiscal discipline from either one of them would be like expecting moral fiber from a pimp.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 04:27 PM

While I agree with moast of what Robo says I have to disagree that Bush could be far worse than he is... I don't know how he'd go about screwin'p more stuff... I mean, face it... He's gotten the US bogged down in two hopeless and expensive occupations, he's gotten the US governemnt so far in the red that our kids and grandchildren's standards of living will greatly decreased from paying for it, he cowtied to very corporation, he hasn't had the balkls to veto one danged spending measure, his "secret" energy policy has incresed the cost of energy over 100% in 6 years, he's ruined our reputation around the world with his cowboy foriegn policise which are centered around threats and sticks over engagement, he's lied to the American people and he has a problems with "pretzles' (wink, wink...0

(But, bobert, he passed the No Child Left Behind" legislation, didn't he???)

Oh, and as fir the one thing that on paper looked promising, the No Child Left Behind Act, he's even seemed to blow it by not writing the checks to pay for it thrusting even more burden on cash starpped state and local governments...

Yeah, I'd be hardpressed to think what else he could have messed up that he hasn't allready gotten to???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: 282RA
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:36 PM

Right now I'm willing to put just about anybody in there than the current group. Not all of them, but most of them. Bush is heading us towards a cliff and he either swerves or he drives off. The best outcome is that he swerves so why not swerve now? Why wait until you're at the cliff's edge screaming "SWERVE DAMMIT SWERVE!" and he ain't movin' a muscle? It's safer to swerve now than later so swerve now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:15 PM

Bobert...agreed, but PLEASE don't call that jackass a "cowboy!" He ain't one, period!


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Al
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:47 PM

How about "an ego masquerading as a human being"? Does that do it for you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 10:25 PM

What Al said, Kat...

Sorry...

I'll try to refrain from callin' the "ego masquerading as a human being" a cowboy, which is a long respected profession that requires integrity and hard work... a couple qualities that Bush certainly ain't got...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 08:01 AM

Mike, who started the Civil War?

My history books tell me that the Spanish American war was started by McKinley, a republican. WW 1 was started (for the USA) when the Germans torpedoed the Lusitania, and WW2 started (for the USA)when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.
Then North Korea invaded south Korea and started shooting our soldiers.
Then, the first Americans were sent to Viet Nam under Eisenhower.

We all know who started the present quagmire. 15 Saudis took out the towers so Bush invaded Afghanistan and Iraq.The real reason? because those "infidels" are sitting on OUR oil!


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 12:46 PM

Yes, and those wars were planned some time before the towers were ever hit...so it really had little or nothing to do with whoever it was who hit the towers. They were just the Mother of All Excuses to go to war for oil, that's all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 12:51 PM

What does the egotistical cowboy think about unborn fetuses ruoted out and sent down the sewer?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 01:16 PM

if you mean GWB, he would like to see Roe vs Wade pitched.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 03:40 PM

Liberal Democrat women claim the right to screw their brains out and when they get pregnant the right to life suddenly gets suspended.

Call Roto Rooter that's the name

An away go troubles down the drain.

Roto Rooter

But when a convicted killer and gang founder is sentenced to death, the right to life issue suddenly eclipses everything.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 04:28 PM

Like convoluted logic Guest? Here's more. Republicans are anti choice and pro death penalty.
As someone said about Ronald Reagan, he is concerned about children all the way from conception to birth. After that, they are on their own.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 04:34 PM

Not the least bit convoluted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 04:40 PM

GUEST's connection with the real world is obviously very tenuous. Like most who seem to think that that's what it's about.

Pea brain!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 04:53 PM

I have no personal attack for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 04:58 PM

Within my experience, most of the people I've run into who hold the incredibly shallow attitude that GUEST expresses, are not so much concerned with the matter of abortion itself. Interestingly enough, and revealingly enough, they also tend to be opposed to birth control and teaching sex education in the schools. A bit of persistent probing into their beliefs reveals that what's really going on is that they are convinced that sex is a sin, and if one indulges, one must be punished for it.

It's interesting to note that they believe that having to bear a child is a form of punishment.

This attitude of theirs may account for a lot of child abuse. It certainly accounts for a lot of children being born into poverty.

Pro-Life? Well, that depends on what you mean by "Pro-Life."

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:32 PM

I have not been abused. I am definately not against birth control. I am for birth control. I think sex education has a reverse effect.

I think kids should not be subjected to sex in the media, advertizing, video games, computer games, movies etc. Big buisness definately exploits sex in order to sell things to make money.

I am not Catholic or any religion for that matter. I am not an atheist. I am tollerant of all peaceful religions. I think religion is a good thing if not caried to extremes.

There are some good reasons for abortion but not wanting to bear the responsiilities for your own actions is not among them.

Are you glad you were not aborted? Are you glad your Mom and Dad were married? Don't take this as an attack, just a question for you to ask yourself.

I am damn glad myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Another guest
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:34 PM

Abortion is a lazy method of birth control. Plan ahead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:43 PM

"Abortion is a lazy method of birth control. Plan ahead."

True in ALL cases then?

If not, who decides?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 07:27 PM

I will never believe that abortion is a viable method of birth control. It's expensive and degrading.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Al
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 10:24 PM

I would like to see the government stay out of the issue of abortion, and let it be a personal decision. No need for the government to be pro or con. Just neutral.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 01:17 AM

Kendal, my lad, you are a talented fellow and funny, too boot, but you are, perhaps, allowing your politics to alter your historical perspective. American involvement in WWI was, entirely, within the Wilson administration. The US was involved in WWII long before Pearl Harbor, long before the Axis attacked us. Korea was the UN and the president was Truman. There was a war in Indo China, under Ike, but the French were fighting it.
I'm not suggesting that the Democrats are the party of death and, surely, the two Iraq adventures are pure GOP. It's a crap shoot.
I think that we defend our positions in pre Vietnam wars by avoiding them (The French and Indian War, the Mexican War, The Spanish-American War), trivializing them (WWI, Graneda, Panama) or accepting them as just wars (The Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WWII).
That WWII thing sure makes it tough to come off anti-war, doesn't it?

                        Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 08:30 AM

It's always hard to know exactly where to lay the blame because our government sneaks around sticking its nose into the internal affairs of other countries, then when the excrement contacts the oscillator we blame the "enemy".
There was a slogan in the teens, "He kept us out of war." but when the Germans sunk the Lusitania he was forced to avenge the American dead. Sounds noble, don't it? Germany put notices in the American papers saying that any ship that was carrying munitions to England would be sunk were ignored, and the Lusitania was loaded with war materials. Their spies reported it to the U Boats and the rest is history.

Now, the fact that Truman was president when North Korea invaded South Korea is hardly a reason to blame him! They started shooting at our people! What was he supposed to do?

Now, if we dig a bit deeper, we find that Truman's secretary of State, Dean Acheson, made the statement that there is nothing in SE Asia that we need or care about is what gave the north Koreans the green light. They were amazed when we fought back. Talk about mixed messages.

Same thing happened in Iraq. Bush number one's Ambassador to Iraq told Saddam that we didn't care what he did in the middle east, so he decided it was a good time to take back Kuwait. We really don't learn from history, do we?
By the way Mike, I majored in American history at the University of Maine and came out with a "B" average. Do you think we were using the wrong books?

All politicians are crooks and thieves. The only thing we get to decide is which one is the worst or will do the least damage.

Consider this 8 trillion dollar national debt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 10:03 AM

I would like to see the citizens stay out of the issue of death, and let it be a government decision. No need for the citizens to be pro or con. Just neutral.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 10:42 AM

Kendal, whether you were a history major or MBA private. dates are dates and facts are facts. More to the point, there remains the question of "just wars". I mentioned a few in my last message. (I could have included Hebrews versus Jericho but I didn't want to offend the Philistines.)
War is a strange concept, illogical, instictive, unproductive, inevitable. Outside of those ten life functions that we learned about in High School biology class, war may be the only activity that we share with every stage in man's evolution. Beliefs change, philosophies come and go, ethics and morals are more stylish than we care to admit but, in good times and bad, we find something to fight about. I don't know. Maybe war is like desease and famine, a way for the earth to check human overpopulation.
"Good wars" and "bad wars" are products of perception. I am a Jew (I wear a hat so people can't tell) so I think that WWII was a good war and I'd like to know what the hell took America so damned long to get into it. (Others, who were not being herded into death camps, can be more objective.)You are a man of principle and a history major with a B average, Kendal. How do you feel about waging war to rescue people? That is what we did in the Balkans and Somalia. Was that OK? Should we have gone into the Soviet Union to combat Stalin's purges? If it is OK to defend your family, how far the "family" extend? I never got a B in any subject but even I can see that war and peace are not so black and white.

                         Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 12:29 PM

I don't really believe that there have been any wars fought "to rescue people", although the claim that that was being done has certainly been made on numerous occasions. ;-) Wars are normally fought for the most pragmatic of reasons, truth be told, and have nothing to do with rescuing anyone.

Does it occur to you, Kendall, that both Saddam and/or the North Koreans may have been deliberately misled by those "mixed messages" that were sent by America? When you would like to fight a war, you need an excuse for it. If you can trick the other side into providing you with a really good excuse, so much the better!

Saddam had passed his point of usefullness for the USA when he failed to defeat Iran. The USA wanted a strong military presence of their own in the Middle East on a permanent basis. They needed a good "reason" to go there. Saddam's attack on Kuwait would give them that reason. What to do? Well, trick Saddam into thinking he had a free hand to attack Kuwait. Then when he did, turn him overnight into the next "biggest threat to the world" and go in full force into the Middle East to fight him. And then never leave.

"Gotcha!" Mission accomplished!


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 12:48 PM

Roosevelt knew what the Nazis were doing to the Jews and he chose to do nothing except to tell the people who were keeping him advised to stop sending him reports. There was a shipload of Jews that was turned away and not allowed to land here. For shame!

On the other hand, what happened when President Carter allowed the Shah of Iran to enter this country for cancer treatments? The hostage crisis, which led to his downfall.

If we are going to be the world's policeman, we must have the support of other countries.

As far as facts go, whose facts? history is written by the winners.
I was in high school when the Korean war broke out, June 25 1950. Right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 01:10 PM

The Federal government is not in the business nor should it be of dictating moral statutes or stances to the citizens of the country; in fact, it is by rights the other way around.

If you want people to be more "moral" about abortion, or any other individual decision they may make, you can take tot he streets, you can have PR events, and you can use your right of free speech to seek to mold the opinions of others.

But when you seek to make your moral views mandatory on others by getting the Federal government to support your opinion over that of other individuals, you are not only abusing the whole purpose of th4e Federal government, you are actually undermining it, by engaging it in issues that distract it from its more important duties and by weakening its ability to make clear judgement. In effect, you corrupt the government of the United States when you try to bend it to purposes for whcih it is not suited. One of those purposes is dictating moral codes.

The source of ethics decisions in the United States is firmly seated with the individual informed citizen. Corrupt that source of power and you corrupt the nation. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 02:01 PM

I would like to see the citizens stay out of the issue of death, and let it be a government decision. No need for the citizens to be pro or con. Just neutral.

What you are describing is totalitarianism. Fortunately, we live in a democracy. In a democracy, the citizens are the government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 04:06 PM

"I would like to see the citizens stay out of the issue of death, and let it be a government decision. No need for the citizens to be pro or con. Just neutral."

That's where we differ, GUEST. My viewpoint is the exact opposite of yours. These issues should be up to the people, and the government, especially the federal government, has no business getting involved in a lot of things that they keep trying to meddle with. In fact, the Constitution delineates what the government can and cannot do. And that most definitely precludes interferring between a woman and her doctor.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 05:48 PM

As a closet libertarian, I assure you that no one is more offended by government interference into private lives than I but I am not so foolish as to imagine that, in America, at least, the government is not representative of the majority will of the people. Oh, I know that is an unpopular view, in this forum and in right wing forums too, but the fact is that ours is a fairly moderate/conservative electorate and they seem to want to have the government tell them what they can eat, drink, smoke and wear. Those of you who support a woman's right to choose abortion should realize that banning abortions and requiring perscriptions are two sides of the same coin (Who controls our bodies?). The only difference is that we have accepted the latter (and ain't the AMA and the drug companies doing well as a result?), but women have not accepted the former.
But why are we discussing this when the solution is so obvious? All the anti-war advocates have to do is vote and we will never be in another war. I mean, you guys are in the majority, aren't you?

                            Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 06:08 PM

Hard to say until we have open and verifiable elections, Mike. We do not currently have that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 06:36 PM

When did you ever get the impression that "the people" control government policy, Mike? By far the greater majority of British citizens were opposed to the Brits going to war in Iraq. Remember? And Blair still went to war anyway.

Governments...including democratically elected ones...do whatever their backroom planners have already decided to do, and then they drag the public along in its wake, often kicking and screaming. It's only when a policy is failing so badly that it no longer has any hope at all of succeeding that a government will abandon a course it has embarked upon. That's basically what happened in Vietnam, and it will also happen eventually with the Iraq conflict...unless we stumble into an even greater war in the region. That's certainly possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 06:39 PM

Is it any surpise to people that when they vote for warmongers they get wars? Or when they vote for people who have never cared about the sick or the poor, they actually get people who bring about policies that don't care about the sick or the poor? Jaysus, the electorate is a few cards short of a full deck.

So, what are y'all doing about the 2006 elections?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 07:00 PM

Yeah, Peace, but don't forget...back in 1964 most of them voted for the "peace" candidate, LBJ, and against the "war" candidate, Barry Goldwater.

Guess what they got?   A war, that's what. A nice big war. LBJ expanded the war in Vietnam well beyond anyone's expectations.

That's why I say that it's all decided behind closed doors by the backroom boys and what the public has to say about it at election time doesn't amount to a puff of smoke in the wind.

For Americans to admit this would be to admit that they are powerless. To admit that they live not in a democracy, but in a well-controlled velvet dictatorship. They'd rather not think about that. Too scary. They'd rather continue to pretend their vote still matters and play the charade of choosing between 2 phony political parties who serve the same corporate masters.

And so, the myth of the rugged frontier individualist lives on, perpetuated in TV dramas and movies, perpetuated in endless unreal blather about "liberty and freedom", while the truth is that Orwell's 1984 is well established already in corporate Amerika.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 07:29 PM

GUEST said:
I would like to see the citizens stay out of the issue of death, and let it be a government decision. No need for the citizens to be pro or con. Just neutral.

CarolC said:
What you are describing is totalitarianism. Fortunately, we live in a democracy. In a democracy, the citizens are the government.

I was so taken aback by GUEST's ridiculous comment that I took it for a troll. In a government that's supposed to have regular elections it's the citizens' duty to participate. Making a blanket statement as kendall does above that "All politicians are crooks and thieves" is to give up the fight which is a permanent part of democracy and to at the same time urge others to give up the fight because if they join they will immediately become crooks and thieves themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Naemanson
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 07:43 PM

To help out Littlehawk's quote way back on July 9, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." is from Samuel Johnson, (1709-1784), quoted in Boswell's Life of Johnson

I've been collecting quotes like that since Bush took the reins of power. There are quite a few from the great minds of our past.

Abraham Lincoln: Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

John Adams: Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak; and that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws.

Abraham Lincoln: To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.

Alan Corenk: Democracy consists of choosing your dictators, after they've told you what you think it is you want to hear.

Aldous Huxley: At least two-thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity: idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religous or political ideas.

Alfred E. Wiggam: A conservative is a man who believes that nothing should be done for the first time.

Alphonse Daudet: Hatred - the anger of the weak.

Ambrose Bierce (In The Devil's Dictionary): In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office.

Ambrose Bierce (Also in The Devil's Dictionary): Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.

Anatole France: If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.

Bertrand Russell: Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man.

H. H. Williams: Furious activity is no substitute for understanding.

Blaise Pascal: Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.

Bruce Barton: Conceit is God's gift to little men.

Charles Darwin: Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.

Dalai Lama: If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

Dan Barker: Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits.

Daniel Webster: A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures.

David Broder: Anybody who wants the presidency so much that he'll spend two years organizing and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the office.

Don Marquis: If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Dwight D. Eisenhower: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

Earl Warren: It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of one of those liberties which make the defense of our nation worthwhile.

Edgar Watson Howe: Americans detest all lies except lies spoken in public or printed lies.

Edward Abbey: One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork.

Edward R. Murrow: When the politicians complain that TV turns the proceedings into a circus, it should be made clear that the circus was already there, and that TV has merely demonstrated that not all the performers are well trained.

This is just a sample of what I have. Some very intellegent people have said some very intellegent things. Too bad nobody brings it up now and again in the media.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 08:55 PM

The historical republican party and the current republican party are quite different things indeed. After all, Lincoln freed the slaves. Do you think for a minute GWB would have freed the slaves? Hell,no. It would hurt the economy.

The past is good to know, but doesn't exist any more. What's happening right now is all that matters. Only the present exists. And right now, the republicans are the party of evil, death, destruction. Our only hope is to elect a democratic majority in congress, and then persuade them to begin impeachment proceedings immediately before this bunch of criminals can do any more harm to the nation and the planet.

Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 09:30 PM

Guest, it was the 13th amendment, not Lincoln who freed the slaves.
His Emancipation Proclamation only applied to slaves in the south under the control of the confederacy. He was hoping to open another front for the rebles to fight against.

"The people are a great mob. Unable to govern themselves." Alexander Hamilton.

And for Mr. Bush, "Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad with power."


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 10:54 PM

It is the nadir of logic to say that the elections are rigged or stolen or bought when half the eligable voters do not exercise their franchise. If the bad guys seem to win the elections it might just be that it's the non-voting good guys who are their greatest allies. The number of stay at homes for primaries is frightening and the record in general elections is not much better. Instead of preaching to the choir, you guys would do better convincing the majority of Americans that you are righter than the other guys and that they should vote like you'd like them to. Unfortunately, you have not, yet, convinced enough of them to get up and vote, let alone support your candidate. Speaking of candidates, you'll have to come up with something better than "Anyone, But Bush" if you want to excite the voters.(Everyone blames Nader for Kerry's loss. I blame Kerry for Nader's loss. If every voter who agreed with Nader but voted for Kerry, and you know who you are, had voted his gut, either Nader would have won or, at the very least, the Democrats would have been scared leftward. That's how the Christian Right took over the GOP?)
And, is John Kerry, really, your ideal president? He wasn't anybody's favorite Democrat. A strong Nader year forces the Democrats to the left and solidifies the concept of a strong, liberal party in the US. Would that be so bad?

                     Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 11:06 PM

Mike, there is a reason why so many people don't vote nowadays. It's an instinctive reaction on the part of the genuinely powerless. Whether they reason it out or not (and most of them don't, of course), people instinctively realize, at some subconscious level, or maybe at the conscious level...that the parties and the system are in fact unresponsive to their wishes and their real needs and have been bought out by major financial interests. They realize it's a setup. They realize it's a charade.

If you had a REAL political system which actually was responsible and responsive and honest, I believe you'd see an over 95% voter turnout.

The emperor has no clothes. People realize it at some level and they become apathetic. They don't vote.

I consider the political system to be mostly pure flim-flammery...but I do vote. Every time.

Why? Not because I think it'll make any difference, but because then guys like you can't say that I have no right to say anything about it because I didn't vote. (grin)

In any case, I usually vote for whoever I think is the best candidate in my riding. That's usually someone who doesn't have much chance of winning, but c'est la vie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 11:08 PM

If you can't be arsed to go to the voting booth, then you don't deserve to have voting booths.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 11:10 PM

"arsed"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 11:13 PM

Expression used by the Brits. It seems to mean 'bothered'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 11:19 PM

It's all pretty irrelevant if people know that whomever they vote for, their vote will go to whomever the vote counters decide. Once we get that problem fixed, then we can start working on the others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 11:26 PM

Well, Little Hawk, that's start but it's also a finish if you are going to shrug your shoulders and keep complaining to your friends. Let's, just for a moment, pretend that voting does count and that the problem is that the message hasn't been properly sold or that it is just not the right message for this populace. It's not that they wont buy liberal programs, they just have to be convinced, and whatever message you've been sending hasn't convinced them, yet.
Don't sell the system short. It's got more holes than a harmonica but it has, within itself, the means for its reform and the potential for peaceful revolution. You just have to know how to work it. You need ferver and a national sense of need, you need numbers. The Christian Right achieved their political power through the ballot box. If the Left had some of that passion, they wouldn't be in the embarrassing state of impotance they are today.

                         Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 11:38 PM

Part of that, however, is that the Dems were no more worthwhile voting for than the Repubs. SSDD.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 11:43 PM

I really hope for the US that having Bush in power has helped the Democrats to grow some balls. A few here and there seem to be willing to speak out, but it's not likely that one of them will get the nomination. Where the hell are the Democrats with guts?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 12:38 AM

In the U.S., it could be argued, the Democrats are the party of death. Not the Republicans. Democrats support abortion and Malthusian population reduction. They support taking land from individuals (for "public use" and "conservation"), thus depriving people of the living space needed to properly raise families. They support mass healthcare which is inferior to private healthcare, and poor healthcare leads to death. Democratic presidents historically engage in more wars than Republican presidensts. Many Democrats support the insane belief that humans are bad for the planet and the only solution is to reduce the population drastically. Yet I don't see Democrats lining up for euthenasia, which is another death issue they support. If they all practiced what they preached, they'd blow their brains out and this debate wouldn't even be necessary. But that's right...they're traditionally against private ownership of guns, preferring to let murderous governments have the firepower so they can wage pogroms and ethnic cleansings. Another death issue. And ultimately, Democrats don't have the courage to admit I'm right, which will be the cause of their own demise. We really only have one television-controlled party in the U.S., but the death cultists are going to wither and drop off the vine. Life always triumphs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 12:47 AM

They support mass healthcare which is inferior to private healthcare

Mass healthcare is a hell of a lot better than no health care, which is what many millions of Americans currently have (no health care). No health care will lead to death a lot faster than mass health care.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 12:50 AM

I fail to see what's wrong with 'mass healthcare'. Hell, it's gotta be better for people than the manufacture of weapons!


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 01:22 AM

"I would like to see the citizens stay out of the issue of death, and let it be a government decision. No need for the citizens to be pro or con. Just neutral. Guest"

I'm sure that everyone is aware of it but I am so literal minded that I have to say it anyway: I don't believe that Guest was making a statement of belief in saying that. S/He simply took the line that A1 had used and turned it inside out for her/his amusement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 02:01 AM

Just for the purpose of illustrating how dumb the original statement is.

Should we eliminate laws gainst murder and leave it in the hands of the people?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 02:50 AM

I didn't use the term "death cultists" lightly in the statement above. Our death-teaching universities brainwash kids into thinking resourses are running out, food is scare, etc., and the only way to "save the planet" is to refrain from propogating. And these students who become so highly educated in other areas of life fail to see they are being told to cut the throat of their species. Don't have children yourself, and support the sterilization programs of the U.N. and the big foundations. Your thinking has been hijacked by death-worshippers, you liberals. The "dying planet" story is a myth. One eruption on the scale of Mt. St. Helens pours more toxic gas into the atmosphere than all humans who've ever lived have produced. Don't buy into the self-annihilation you are being sold. Investigate the artificial scarcities (diamonds, oil, water), and you'll realize the "dying planet" story is just another fairy tale of the same ilk. Being told to you by people who merely want you dead. Insane death-worshippers who hate themselves and want to take you down with them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:05 AM

Guest, how about some evidence to support your statement?

The Civil War..republican president.
The Spanish American war..McKinley, republican
Afganhistan Bush..republican
Iraq..Bush one and two.

I don't believe that either party has clean skirts in this area. However, Gusest, I'm willing to look at some evidence, if you have any.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:30 AM

Ah, I see that our nameless guest has revealed him/herself as our token distributor of Right Wing cliche. That's OK, we needed some balance for our usual one sided diatribes if, only, to get some perspective. Perhaps, now, we can drop this silly name calling and have a real discussion of the issues. Real decisions are made by reasonable people, not by the fringe players. Compromise is not capitulation and, as it has been said, the middle of the road is the super highway of politics. Name calling may be good for the soul but it is not a path to wisdom or accomplishment.
National Health is not a left/right issue. No society can afford to have a sizable number of its citizens unprotected by medical care. It poses a threat to the whole group. The level of care does not have to be inferior. Israel, with two national health plans, has the highest doctor/patient ratio in the world.

                      Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:29 AM

Israel also gave the world the "ringworm" children. Look it up. More death. And FDR couldn't get the US to go along with the war in Europe, so he gave us Pearl Harbor. Look up the McCollum Plan and the Japanese decoders being removed from Pearl. But this is all distraction. All modern presidents have served the interests of big banking. If you get out of line, you're shot, Rep or Dem. There is no difference between the parties at the Presidential level. Bush/Clinton/the bin Ladens are all on the same team. Focusing your attn on Bush's smirk takes your eye off the hundred unconstitutional acts of treason he's committed. Same with Clinton's penis. He should have been tried and executed for his crimes, not made a laughingstock. There is no difference between the parties in Washington. They are the same party. The party of death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 10:24 AM

Geez....Guest....you're almost as looney as sorefingers.


Sorry brother but you gotta speak the truth.


Hubby


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 12:11 PM

100


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 12:45 PM

GWBush has signed the US on with UNESCO. Reagan pulled us out of that child-killing organization, but Bush renewed our membership.   

And if Bush is taking "liberal" steps like UNESCO membership, why do you people think of him as "conservative?" Because you've been flim flammed. You don't know left from right. Educate yourselves and give up the name-calling. Though it's amusing, it just illustrates the mental void of the name caller.

Bush also created the New Freedom Initiative. Forced mental health testing of all children. Legislation written by the big pharmaceutical companies. The goal is to up the number of children on Dilantin & Prozac, etc. to fifty percent. This is the type of legislation "Democrats" and "liberals" are famous for. So where's the difference between the Dems and Reps on this piece of legislation? Most of the Dems voted for it.

The Party of Death in America is the "two-party system." You have no choice in this system. Both parties want absolute control over you, and now that they think they have it, they are poisoning your children. While you think the problem can be blamed on one "side" or another.

I pity your children, if you have any. Chances are you're a "liberal" if you're reading this, and you've bought into the death-cult zero population growth nonsense, hence you have no children. For the good of the planet or some such absurd reason. Your "educators" hate you and have left you childless. Hopefully YOU won't remain a child for the rest of your life and can awaken to face what's been done to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 12:57 PM

"Israel, with two national health plans, has the highest doctor/patient ratio in the world."

That's because Israel has lots of Jewish mothers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 01:24 PM

The Party of Death in America is the "two-party system." You have no choice in this system. Both parties want absolute control over you, and now that they think they have it, they are poisoning your children. While you think the problem can be blamed on one "side" or another.

I can't find anything to argue with here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 02:51 PM

This website heading gives a good clue as to what the 'ringworm children' story is about: "Jew Watch - Keeping a Close Watch on Jewish Communities & Organizations Worldwide".

Guest, you have taken a massive dose of poison yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: pdq
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 03:19 PM

"And if Bush is taking 'liberal' steps like UNESCO membership, why do you people think of him as 'conservative?'"


George W. Bush is a pragmatist, not a 'conservative'. He has some conservative leanings but will not 'go for it' as Reagan did. Bush wants to be liked, Reagan was liked. There is a difference.

The president's approval numbers are rather low, based as much on conservatives being dissapointed as it is based on liberals being, well, liberals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 04:44 PM

I didn't like Reagan. He was A LIAR AND A PHONY. He was also the reason I left the republican party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:10 PM

Good riddance. Now you can join the party of flipfloppers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:16 PM

Kendal, you were a Republican until the 1980's? Does that mean that you supported Nixon but Reagan was just to much for you? Every American is entitled to his opinions and as many epiphanies as he wants but it does leave a question or two, unanswered. How were you able to rationalize your often stated beliefs with the platforms of Nixon, Agnew, Goldwater and Bill Miller? Have you come 'round 180 degrees? Wow, a folksinger with a past.

                  Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:36 PM

UNITED STATES

Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 12:33 AM

...."We're no better than bacteria!" University of Texas biologist Eric Pianka recently announced. "Things are gonna get better after the collapse because we won't be able to decimate the Earth so much," he added. "And, I actually think the world will be much better when there's only 10 or 20% of us left."

Pianka dreamed that disease "will control the scourge of humanity." He celebrated the potential of Ebola Reston, an airborne strain of the killer virus, to make Earth nearly human-free. "We've got airborne 90% mortality in humans. Killing humans. Think about that."

Just five hours after Pianka's March 3 speech to the Texas Academy of Science, which eyewitness Forrest Mims III covered March 31 in The Citizen Scientist, the Academy named Pianka its 2006 Distinguished Texas Scientist. Several hundred scientists gave Pianka a standing ovation, Mimms reported....

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15647


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 12:47 AM

Mouthing off theory is one thing, Guest; but your Mod Squad in the White House has actually caused real, immediate suffering and death to tens of thousands. Blood spilled and tissues torn apart and lives destroyed by the thousands.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Al
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 01:46 AM

That's right, Amos, and he could care less. It feeds his ego. He likes it. And we have the bonehead Christian Right to thank for his two terms.
Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 01:55 AM

GUEST gives us 1996 data. Well GUEST, perhaps you should go check the most recent statistics. Do they tell you anything about the difference between the 1990's and the 2000's? What do you suppose happened?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 02:10 AM

The potential for airborne Ebola is certainly scary, and I don't doubt that some countries are doing their best to develop it as a weapon. But scarier still is someone who proposes the killing off of 90% of any given population--in this case the human race. It is offensive. And sick. And I am not alone in thinking so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 07:44 AM

Flip floppers, eh? Got any more meaningless phrases?


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 07:48 AM

A man was walking his dog, and he saw a small boy by the wayside. He had a box with a sign that said REPUBLICAN KITTENS FOR SALE. Well, he figured the boy's parents were republicans.
A few days later, the same boy had a sign that said DEMOCRAT KITTENS FOR SALE. Of course he asked the boy why the change, and the boy replied, "Because they now have their eyes open."


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:26 AM

Population control. "Liberal" idea. Pianka just voices what "liberals" think. If people are so bad for the planet, why don't "liberals" remove themselves from the planet? Because they don't really believe what they claim to believe. Their actions belie their words. They want death for others, but not themselves. Hypocrites.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 11:14 AM

Kendal's puppy story is simple but succinct. I hope he did not think I was questioning his sincerity. I, also, think that he could tell us that Republicans do not have horns, nor are they as narrow minded as some of these threads make them out to be. There are Republicans of great character and integrity, some of whom hold public office. There are scalawags, galore, in the GOP but so are there among the Democrats. I'm sure that I don't have to list the countless Democratic lawmakers and governors who held the line for segregation.
Ours is not a parliementry system so party affiliation doesn't mean very much. In the big cities, one was either a Democrat or one was virtually disenfranchised. I am sure that in other ares the same was true for Republicans. This is just another reason why we can not depend on our traditional parties to represent us. Once upon a time, when unions had some political clout, the Democrats leaned toward labor but not so much any more. It is well past time for liberals to climb out from under their beds and demand and support candidates who represent their views. You had your chance with Nader but the talking heads scared you into voting for their faceless candidate du jour.

                         Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 11:54 AM

Pianka's not a liberal. He's a Texan.

His speach reminds me of things I've heard being attributed to Globalists and One World Government advocates... kill off 90 percent of humanity and leave the world to the political and business elites (with the help of the UN).


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 12:02 PM

Population control. "Liberal" idea. Pianka just voices what "liberals" think. If people are so bad for the planet, why don't "liberals" remove themselves from the planet? Because they don't really believe what they claim to believe. Their actions belie their words. They want death for others, but not themselves. Hypocrites.

Anyone who would associate such ideas with "liberal" could only be an America self styled "Conservative". Everyone else on earth who speaks the language, is at least smart enough to understand plain english in a dictionary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 12:39 PM

Yes. That is how turned around the terms have become in America. Left is right and right is left. And that's how the controllers want it. That's why Americans don't know where to focus their energies in fighting the govt that is growing exponentially. GWBush has tripled the size of govt and spent more money than all presidents before him combined. He spends "liberally" yet Americans persist in thinking of him as "conservative." The old "liberal" agenda of the Democrats has been destroyed. Clinton stabbed the unions in the back by signing the illegal NAFTA trade agreement, and things have gone downhill since then. Democrats didn't have the guts to hold Clinton accountable, just as Republicans don't have the guts to hold Bush accountable for selling out their interests now. That's how bass ackwards popular American political thinking has become.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:14 AM

Flip floppers is a democratic phrase. Or at lease some of them say it is but others do not agree all of the time, just some times.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:16 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Naemanson
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:47 AM

You know, when someone spouts such gibberish it really throws the whole idea of an educated voter into sharp relief. Sigh, an education really doesn't hurt you, you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 12:36 PM

The GOP is being run by bossy white men who think they know everything. No humility there. They are fanatical religious leaders, CEO's, punishing authoritative figures who are sending this economy down the tubes. They only know how to rule with an iron hand or as Jack London would say, "Iron Heel".

Their answer to the world's problems is to shoot them away in Iraq, Iran or anywhere else as it serves their Dominionist designs.

What the Dems need to do is not go along with their war-mongering. Go back to the nurturing principles of FDR, help the country, raise the minimum wage, revive the Wagner Act, support legal Mexican workers, arrest the criminal corporations who hire illegals (stop blaming poor Mexicans). fix our infrastructure (falling bridges etc.) curtail the ambitions of Walmart destruction of our cities, stop supporting bloodshed in the mid-east, investigate fraud in our election process,get out of Iraq before the civil war there becomes a WWIII, stop killing the Iraqi people, arresting "enemy combatants" who are innocent,

stop the Bush from spying on us, and outing CIA operatives,
(impeachable offense), and keep the GOP from destroying government protection agencies,and their use of race-baiting and homophobia to win elections, disenfranchising poor people and minorities from voting through fraud and intimidation, stealing from the poor to give to the rich and attempting to suppress free speech.


There is no death tax. That's a lie. GOP's are cutting and running from responsibility.

Dems need to stand up and not run like Hillary.

BTW Joe Lieberman=Zell Miller.

Well, I guess you know where I stand.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 12:58 PM

AMEN!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 04:19 PM

We would all like to thank Mr. Hamilton for letting us know where he stands on the issues. I had been operating on the mistaken impression that he was a moderate Republican but, now, I have seen the light. Mr. Firth has, similarly, taken a brave stand by endorsing Mr. Hamilton's views, thus, saving us the trouble of mislabeling him. It does my heart good to know that these gentlemen are fixed points in a changing world as true to their principles as they are unmoved by the concept of shading.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 04:30 PM

Yes, Mike. Still, I think we need to hear from the chimp lobby on this. Chimps don't get heard nearly enough in the political arena.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 05:48 PM

Condaleeza is a bossy white man? I need to do a rethink.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 06:04 PM

Mr. Miller, you rage and storm a lot here, and seem to be ladling out a lot of sarcasm, but just exactly what did you do in the last presidential election? And what are you doing for the coming mid-term election?

Nader may have been you favorite candidate, but he wasn't mine. Nor was he the favorite candidate of a lot of progressives. Unfortunately—very unfortunately—my favorite candidate got eliminated early on, so I worked for and voted for the candidate that I thought had the best chance of winning against Bush, even though I had to hold my nose to do it. Kerry would have been one helluva lot better than Bush, despite what some disenchanted progressives keep whining. Not great, but sufficiently better that we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.

You seem to consider that reprehensible and blame people like me for Nader's defeat. But if you examine the stats from the last presidential election, it should be patently obvious to you that Nader never had a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Granted, if I, and millions of others, had voted for him, he would have won. And if hippos could grow big enough wings, they could fly.

And frankly, I don't think Nader could have handled the job.

There is a lot of pissing and moaning that the Democratic Party is no better than the Republican Party. I disagree. It's not much better, but it is better. And it could be even better still if people such as you would get off your high horse, get into the party, and argue like hell for your position. Get in there and yell your head off! Like it or not (and I personally don't, but that's the way it is!), this country has a two-party system. It's extremely rare when a third party even comes close to getting a candidate elected. It's a lousy system and I can think of much better ways to go about it, but unfortunately that's what we're stuck with right now and if we're going to accomplish anything worthwhile—and maybe even change the system itself—it's the system we have to work with right now.

Your divisive attitude is the kind that keeps liberals and progressives from being able to put their petty differences aside and work together on the major issues. The Republicans figured that out a couple of decades ago, and that's why they're in power today.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 06:48 PM

Condaleeza is far worse than a bossy white man- she's been allowed bny the NeoCon BuShite power structure to play with the big boys and has to be twice as looney as they are to prove she's one of 'em.

That's why she's so good and thorough at oppressing minorities around the world as a matter of U.S. foreign policy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 07:16 PM

I thank Don Firth for referring to me as Mr. Miller. For a minute, there, I feared I had lost his respect. I do not begrudge him his propensity for name calling. He is entitled to his anger. After all, he has not had a political victory for his progressive position for longer than Philadelphia has had a sports championship. My "devisive" suggestion du jour is that the left reexamine its position and its sales strategy. It is just possible that showing utter disrespect for those who disagree with you is not the best way to change their minds. Reasonable people can respond to reasonable opinion.

                   Mr. Mike Miller


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 10:32 PM

That, Mr. Miller, was precisely my point.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 10:50 PM

showing utter disrespect for those who disagree with you

Ya mean sorta like the BuShites calling anyone who disagrees with them traitors, terrorist sympathizers, an enemies of Amerika??


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 01:43 AM

Why, yes, Greg, that's exactly what I meant. That, and calling Republicans murderers, racists and fools. Blind prejudice is not confined to the right. Let's face it, the left has failed to frighten the conservatives by insulting them and, more succinctly, angry invective has not moved the great centerist majority. It just turns them off. Spouting off may cleanse your soul but so will a decent laxative. The key to communication is respect and that means respecting people with whom you disagree. I think you will find that people can agree on some things and disagree on others. I, for instance, am not anti-war but I oppose the Iraqi War because it is foolish, unproductive and unwinnable. So, I voted for the only candidate who said he would pull out of Iraq and, no, it sure wasn't Kerry. (I understood that the difference between a Bush administration and a Kerry administration would be a hell of a lot less than you guys were hoping for. I would have voted for a Howard Dean but you know that the Democrats would never nominate anyone with a real agenda.)


                         Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 08:35 AM

The REAL reason Dean wasn't chosen to run was, he came across as a nut case.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 10:35 AM

If Dean was a "nut case", he was a "nut case" with a progressive agenda. I suppose that the mainstream media would have labeled any politician who favored a national health plan and an ability to admit error. I am old enough to remember the hatchet job that was done on the few senators who owned up to being tragically mistaken about Vietnam.
Yessiree, Dean was too emotional to be taken seriously, Kendal. Tell me, how did you like the cool, calm, collected candidates we got? If we continue voting for these stick figures that the parties offer, we deserve whatever we get, and that includes every Bush on the lawn.
I, for one, do not choose to waste my vote on the lesser of two lessers.

                  Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 11:36 AM

spouting off may cleanse your soul but so will a decent laxative.

I hate to be the one to tell you, but that's not your soul. Probably your sigmoid colon or somp'n.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 11:57 AM

After the polarised and near tied, and some would say 'stolen', last two elections, there is no "the great centerist majority".


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 12:31 PM

I think you're absolutely right, Mike. Both of those big parties will only pick a compliant "stick man" as you put it...someone who will back the latest war that their backers want. Any politician who breaks ranks and actually proposes real change in a positive direction (meaning opting for peace instead of unwinnable wars) does not have a hope in hell of getting elected in the USA. It's a fixed system from the word "go".

Kerry would have been just another servant of the big $ySStem that picks presidential candidates and puts them into office. He'd be in Iraq now, and he be mouthing the usual macho phrases, like, "This is not the time to cut and run...", "I will not abandon the Iraqi people in their hour of need..." (Oh, the nausea...!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 12:34 PM

Mike, the problem is,during the campaign, Dean came acreoss as a nut, and Kerry Came across as a war hero. No contest.By the way, I made a contribution to Dean, but that was before that outburst that made him look less than presidental.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 01:20 PM

A wonderful video of Bush:

Jogging 5 paces in front of a jogging US marine who has recieved two artificial legs due to his service in Iraq.


At the St. Petersburg meetings I can see that Bush has the "deer in the headlights look" back in his eyes. He is scared, out of his depth and feels alone without a prompter.
Of course Rice has had a calming influence by invoking the APOCOLYPSE when she said "these events in the middle east are not the apocolypse..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 01:26 PM

Condoleeza will never look like a deer in the headlights. She's much too calm, cool, and collected for that. She looks more like a cobra in the headlights. Ready to strike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 01:30 PM

As I mentioned on another thread, what is needed is a grassroots movement to get legislation passed in every state (every state that doesn't currently have it) to make vote counting proportional.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 02:13 PM

Or preferential voting, where you rank the candidates in order of your preference. That way, you can go ahead and vote for a minority party candidate that you prefer, but figure has only a very slim chance, and if, indeed, that person doesn't get enough votes, your vote moves on to the candidate you've ranked as your second choice, and so on. That way, you don't have to feel that voting for someone who reflects you beliefs but stands little chance will waste your vote.

Last time around, I could have voted for Cobb as #1, Nader as #2, and Kerry as #3. Actually, I preferred Kucinich and voted for him in my neighborhood caucus, but he didn't make the ticket.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Tom Fenner
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 03:14 PM

Kerry killed his Hero statice when he refused to release his Military records. For a public figure to do that, it gives the impression that he has something to hide, and in politics, perception trumps everything. Kerry may well be the hero he tries to project, but people will always wonder what he has to hide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 04:33 PM

I could care less what a candidate has to hide about anything except who is paying for his campaign. FDR was a haughty adulterer, JFK was an insatiable adulterer, Clinton was a tasteless adulterer.
They were also, among the most progressive presidents we have had. You think that Dean went on a rage? You should have seen Truman take on a music critic who panned Margaret's singing. It was the saltiest language from the oval office until the Nixon tapes were released. Any politician who has the guts to stand up to the AMA/Insurance/Drug complex has my respect and my support. Any politician who is willing to risk the charge of weakness and lack of patriotism to end an unwinnable war has my support. I dont care if he wears his underwear on the outside.
The real reason that a third party candidate can't win is that so many people who might support a third party are convinced that their votes would be wasted. Who, do you think, is doing the convincing?
Aren't you all sick and tired of throwing away your votes on candidates who do not stand for what you stand for? Little Hawk has it right. If Kerry had won the election, we would be seeing the same threads and the same complaints. Then, who could we blame?

                         Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 04:35 PM

Preferential voting seems like a very good idea as well.

But I think that any movement that would seek to get preferential voting or proportional voting established in all states should definitely not be tied to or associated with any other issues, or any particular political philosophies. It won't work unless it can serve all voters regardless of their issues or political philosophies.

It's about process rather than interests.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 04:38 PM

"You should have seen Truman take on a music critic who panned Margaret's singing."

I believe he said words to the effect: "I'll punch the sonuvabitch in the nose."


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 05:21 PM

I figure that most of them swore like troopers off the record. Nixon's error was that he taped it all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 10:19 PM

That was all on tape 342. That's why Nixon erased those 18 minutes. It was all bad words.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 10:22 PM

And the other half minute had REALLY bad words.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 11:50 PM

I'll bet that in Israel right now there are a small number of idiot peaceniks telling their govnerment to stop this war right now. It is not nice. Soldiers are getting killed. Quit trying to make is think there is a terrorist menace so you can control us and exploit us.

Then they all get together in some chat room or blog so they can and agree with each other to reinforce their fucked up thinking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 12:20 AM

You're absolutely right, Roscoe. There are people working for peace in Israel and people working for peace in the Muslim countries too...for the simple reason that they respect other people and don't particularly want to kill anyone.

But...you won't hear about it on the news much. That's because bad news gets way more attention and that makes the commercial sponsors of the news VERY happy! And it makes warmongers like George Bush and Osama Bin Laden VERY happy too!

The fact is, most of the ordinary people in the world would much rather have peace and get along with their neighbours if their governments and political leaders would just leave them alone. But that's not going to happen, not while there's oil to steal, nukes to manufacture, and weapons industries that need to keep selling new and more deadly weapons.

They love your lust for vengeance and slaughter. It keeps them gainfully employed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:33 AM

Truman also said he would kick that critic in the balls. Bess was mortified, but everyone who had a daughter understood his anger.
Old Harry never minced words, and we always knew where he stood.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 09:25 AM

Old Harry never minced words
Bush minces the English language.

But today he didn't mince words when he stupidly said into an OPEN MIKE ...
"those Syrians need to stop this SHIT!"
verbatum GWB


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 09:43 AM

Dean was distorted into looking like a nutcase by the audio equivalent of Photoshop, taking his crowd-roar number out of context and exagerrating the wild-eyed sound of it. In fact he's a pretty sober and analytical guy and a good manager. He would have made a better President than Bush, but I don't know how well he could have handled the depth of corruption that colors all the days of DC.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 11:40 AM

The $ySStem decides ahead of time who will win a presidential nomination. Dean never had a hope. They simply had to watch him like a hawk and wait for an opportune moment to find something that would embarass him...then make sure it got played up big on the news over and over again, until it was all people thought of when they heard the name "Howard Dean". And so, you had "the scream", which actually didn't matter at all in any real sense. If it had not been "the scream" it would have been something else. There's always something.

One of our Canadian politicians, Robert Stanfield, had his career rather crippled merely by being photographed one day eating a half-peeled banana! (something that everybody does now and then) He was endlessly made fun of by cartoonists for years afterward, who would depict him with decidedly ape-like features, standing there holding his half-peeled banana. This was perpetrated on a man who was a decent, reasonable, intelligent person.

Another of our Canadian politicians was not very well known when he got nominated and won his party's leadership. His name was Joe Clark. Since he wasn't very well known at the time, some wag christened him "Joe Who?" The name stuck. He was ridiculed as "Joe Who" throughout his entire lengthy career. This again was done to a decent, reasonable, intelligent person.

Neither Joe Clark nor Robert Stanfield were people whom I necessarily would have voted for at any particular juncture...though there is some chance I might have...they were both Conservative Party members. So I'm not pointing this out for leftist partisan reasons. I'm pointing it out because it was unscrupulous treatment of decent men...just like the media "scream" coverage of Dean was.

Politics is a very dirty game...and it's a rigged game. The electorate is primed by the media to vote for the men the $ySSTem wants in office.

Why? Follow the money trail. Lawyers, guns, and money. That's the whole story right there. There IS no real democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 11:58 AM

Dean a Nutcase?

And Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rove aren't

Just more Bu[ll]Shite nonsense that for some inexplicable reason a substantial segment of the [moronic?] U.S. population believes.

The Neo-Con motto: No Facts Need Apply.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 01:17 PM

Those who vote decide nothing. Those who COUNT the votes decide everything, (Josef Stalin)


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 01:24 PM

And when computers count the vote, he who controls the computer software decides.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 03:57 PM

Washington State has two Democratic senators and at least a couple of Congressional representatives who give the lie to the canard that the Democratic Party is no different from the Republican Party, and from my observations, I'm pretty sure that my state is not unique in that.

Senator Patty Murray (D) delivered an impassioned speech to Congress on the eve of the vote to give Bush discretionary war powers, arguing strongly against it. And she has been a severe critic of the Bush administration all along. She has earned herself the epithet "Taliban Patty" from Right-Wing media commentators because of her unequivocal position. Senator Maria Cantwell (D) disappointed me when she voted in favor of giving Bush war powers, but since then she has changed her position, and among other things, has managed to stymie the Bush administration's efforts to give free rein to oil and timber companies to exploit the few remaining wilderness areas. She's the junior senator from Washington State, and there's hope for her yet. Long-term Democratic Congressional Representative from Washington's Seventh District, Jim McDermott, has been a very loud critic of the Iraq war since well before the war started, and is a royal pain in the ass to the Bush administration on several issues. He has an admirable progressive voting record, as does the younger Jay Inslee, also from Washington State.

I think if one were to run through a list of the Democratic senators and representatives for most states (without even going through the list myself, a few names pop into mind:   Reps. Nancy Pelosi and John Murtha, and Sen. Robert Byrd), one can readily see that when people write off the Democratic Party as merely an echo of the Republicans, they simply do not have the facts. I spend a fair amount of time watching C-SPAN, so I can actually see and hear what these folks are saying and doing rather than just listening to some news commentator's idea of what they're about, and I make special note of the super at the bottom of the screen so I know who they are, where they're from, and which party they belong to. It becomes patently clear that, in the Democratic Party, for every Joe Liebermann for example, you have several Russ Feingolds.

When people say there is no difference between the two parties, it reveals the unfortunate fact that those actually believe this statement are not part of the informed electorate that Thomas Jefferson said would be necessary if democracy is to survive in this country.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 04:08 PM

I wouldn't say there's no difference between them, Don, and overall I prefer the Democrats somewhat. However...what I do say is that the big machines which run the Democratic and Republican parties AS parties are both utterly corrupt, and they both serve the same essential interests: big business, the "defence" industry, and the big banks.

There will always be a few honest politicians with real ideals elected in the mix, such as those you mentioned...but the big machine that controls the parties' financially has only two concerns: staying in power and enlarging its power.

And therein lies the problem. I could not in good conscience vote for either of those 2 parties. I could, however, vote in good conscience for an individual local representative or senator from either of those parties, I suppose, if I were really convinced they were worth voting for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Troll
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 05:32 PM

You can "if only" all you want but the hard, cold fact is that Nader took votes away from the democrats candidates.

In 2000, my home county went solidly for Nader.
Those votes, cast for Gore, would have beaten Bush handily. Please don't beat the stolen election dead horse. It simply isn't germain here. Nader got several thousand votes in Alachua Co. Fla. and that alone would have elected Gore.

L.H. instead of complaining about the present state of politics and political parties ad nauseum, why don't you suggest a better system. We all know what you don't like and what you would like to see happen.

So tell us how you would MAKE it happen.

Or is it easier to curse the darkness than to light a candle.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Naemanson
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:15 PM

Ah, sitting here on the sidelines watching you guys talk about who is bad and who is worse can be quit entertaining. Here in Guam we are stuck with whoever you elect because we cannot vote in national elections.

A large part of the local economy depends on spending by the two big military bases on the island so most of the community would be staunch republicans if it did any good. Bush is The Man for them. The Republicans are seen by the locals as being the party that pushes military spending and expansion of bases. It certainly has helped out here. The bases get lots of money and now we are getting an expansion of 8,000 Marines that have worn out their welcome in Japan.

The basic rule of thumb when it comes to politics is this. Watch a politician's mouth. If it is moving then he is lying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 06:54 PM

"I could not in good conscience vote for either of those 2 parties."

Well, Little Hawk, I see a problem there. I agree that both parties in general serve the interests of big business. But as you say, there is a difference. And given the established record of progressive-leaning third parties doing little more than drawing votes away from the Democrats with the ultimate result that the Republicans (who don't even give lip-service to anything vaguely resembling social programs, and the Dems at least give that much) win, thereby defeating their own purpose, in good conscience one must make a choice when voting time comes along, or simple stay home and glower at the wall. In short, give up. Of course, rather than staying home on election day, one can sop one's conscience by voting for one of the third party candidates, but that accomplishes nothing save being able to feel smug about one's sense of personal integrity, no matter how short-sighted and self-defeating it may be under the current circumstances.

I still maintain that Thom Hartmann's article, which I have linked to on several of these threads (so here it is YET AGAIN), is the way to go.

But what Hartmann recommends takes getting out there and getting involved. It takes a lot of time and it's a lot of work. Most people, it seems, would rather just sit back and belly-ache. The attitude seems to be "Let George do it." Well, that's the problem! George is doing it!

Remember, only you can stamp out flaming ducks!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 07:30 PM

By all means, Don, make the best choice you feel is available. That's what I do at election time.

Troll - I have many times suggested a solution. My solution is to abolish all political parties forever and elect individuals instead who are not connected with any party and not funded by any party or private backers. Instead, fund them all equally from a public election fund, so they all have an equal chance to put their ideas on the table, and let the candidate with the best ideas win. Then form a non-partisan government, debate policy, vote...2/3 vote required to pass all legislation.

That's a start.

You say I don't have solutions? Not so. I merely have solutions that the ruling $ySStem has not the slightest intention of ever allowing to be even debated, let alone put into effect, because it would mean the end of their oligarchy of rich and powerful men.

Troll, I know I am living in a deluded society, drunk on its own mythology and foolishness. That's okay. I intend to live a happy and useful life anyway, regardless, I am doing so, and I know perfectly well that the world is not going to become exactly the way I would like it to be before I die, because I'm just not that important in the greater scheme of things.

And that's okay! ;-) I will continue to comment on anything political that interests me, simply because it interests me.

That's part of the fun of being here, after all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 08:18 PM

Democracy is a very interesting system, and most people's idea of what it consists of and how it's supposed to work amounts to a slumgullion of misconceptions. For example, it is most emphatically not majority rule. The originators of democracy were smart enough to understand that between two foxes and one goose, voting on what's for dinner might have a detrimental effect on at least one member of that society. They were also aware of the inevitable pitfalls of political parties, particularly things like a two-party system. I think it's a pretty good form of government (despite Churchill's comment that "Democracy is a terrible system, except when you consider all the others!") and we really ought to try it sometime. . . .

This may be the time to call attention to THIS again. I read it some time back and found it to be very enlightening. I often use it for reference. If you read the Publisher's Weekly review (scroll down a bit), it will give you a sort of highly abbreviated Cliff's Notes version of what the book is all about.

Well worth reading. The book, I mean.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 08:30 PM

A very good and dear friend of mine called me one evening (early morning, actually) the day after Nixon's election to the Presidency. My friend was somewhat inebriated--hell, he was plastered. He and I had put on lots of miles in the McCarthy campaign, and needless to say he was disappointed with the results of the election. He said (and here I will quote his words exact, because I have never forgot them): "Well, once again the American people get what they deserve. But why do I have to keep getting what they deserve?"

In Canada, we have Harper. He leads a minority government. I did not vote for him. I want y'all to know that. However, until the citizens of this fair country see fit to get his rotten ass outta there, he will be my Prime Minister, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 10:10 PM

Canada's ruled by a Queen, unless you're no longer a Dominion.   Canadians can't criticize their govt or they go to jail. A police state. Can't criticize the govt or religions or races. All the Canadians are allowed to criticize nowadays is Americans. The prime monoster isn't your problem, it's that Saxe-Coburg queen. Get her Nazi ass out of your politics and you'll be just fine. Adopt a Bill of Rights so you can talk like I do. The queen's a whore. The prime monoster needs to be castrated. Man that feels good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 10:37 PM

Wow! That sounds a little harsh. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 10:50 PM

'Adopt a Bill of Rights so you can talk like I do.'

We simply require bad diction to do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Troll
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:10 AM

LH, why do you think I'M here. My wife and I agreed when we first started dating not to ever discuss politics.

She's somewhere to the left of Lenin and she says that I'm somewhere to thr right of Attila the Hun. My brother, Skeptic, is the chairman of the local ACLU and I live in what some of my more redneck neighbors refer to as The Peoples Socialist Republic of Alachua County.

The Mudcat Forum is my one oportunity to speak my mind without having to worry about my home life, my relationship with my closest family, or being tarred and feathered and/or forced to watch the news on the alphabet networks.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:06 AM

Don't feed the troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:43 PM

No kidding, Troll? ;-) Heh! That's amusing. I meant that in a good way, not being nasty. I can hardly imagine being married for many years to someone who totally disagreed with all my political ideas!....but I guess "love is blind", eh?

I've always been basically a democratic socialist, in a general sense, although I have no objection to capitalism either...as long as it doesn't run absolutely everything. I like to see a sort of 50/50 mix of capitalism and socialism in a society.

GUEST - If you think the Queen is "running Canada", my lad, you must be really high as a kite on something! LOL! She's still on our coins and paper bills, all right, and she visits us on very rare occasions to wave her little hand, but that's about it. We DO have a Charter of Rights, and it works just as well as your American Bill of Rights. Matter of fact, I feel freer here than what I saw in the good ol' USA when I lived there. Now if what you are saying is that the British Royal Family are tied in with a consortium of fabulously rich people who run all of western society....yeah...that I'll agree with. They're an important part of it. But it's that consortium of very rich people who control Canada, the UK, western Europe, AND the USA. I don't think the Queen is the boss of all of them. I doubt it. If she is, though, she runs the USA too, not just Canada.

Now take some of that stuff you're high on and spread it around, please. Don't be greedy. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:06 PM

Love is amazingly blind. In Juneau, a lovely woman, gentle, spiritual, and Buddhist, is in a longtime marriage - evidently happily - to a conservative Republican who serves as Chief of Staff to the second most unpopular current governor in the USA. I don't know him; I have to assume he is a decent man or she wouldn't be with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: DougR
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:07 PM

Mebbe not, Ebbie, maybe he's just "well built."

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:11 PM

Doug, even when you try, you're not particularly funny.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 11:22 AM

I know a few republicans, and they are good people. The rest would steal flies from a blind spider.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 11:30 AM

I figures, don't it? There are a few good gorillas too, I've noticed... ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 11:35 AM

I know quite a few democrats, and in general they are about the same as the republicans I know- but a little more vocal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:27 PM

Well, Ebbie I think Douggie's pretty hysterical.

His "jokes"[sic] and his opinions are something else altogether.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:53 PM

The Chief Republican has just vetoed stem cell research, which could lead to the saving of lives and the betterment of life for thousands. His argument was that it was immoral. Hmmmmmmmmmm?



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:20 PM

George and his supporters, bless their pea-pickin' hearts, certainly have an interesting concept of what constitutes "pro-life."

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 04:37 PM

Bush's veto and all the ranting of the anti-abortion crowd is not going to stop stem-cell research from being done.

Although I'm not sure of this, it's my understanding that American pharmaceutical companies can go ahead with stem-cell research without government funding if they want to. It just means that when and if they turn up something, they'll have to charge more for it to pay for the research. And it doesn't affect foreign researchers at all.

Hypothetical.

Suppose, within the next month or two, stem-cell researchers in Switzerland (outside the reach of George's veto and the opposition of the "pro-life" folks) announce a break-through and come up with a cure for all sorts of diseases and conditions such as Parkinson's Disease. And George begins to notice uncontrollable tremors in his hands.   How fast do you think it would take him to book a trip to Switzerland? Would he go there in Air Force One, at tax-payers' expense?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 07:18 PM

As far as I'm concerned, he can go to Hell and I'll buy his ticket.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Al
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 11:37 PM

Let us not waste our all our power by spending too much time criticizing and berating Mr. Bush. It will do no good. He can and will do whatever he wants regardless of how much whining and complaining there is out there. There is currently nothing to stop him. If you think some Supreme Court ruling is going to rein him in, just wait. I think you'll find he devises a secret way around that, too. It being that his time is running short, I expect him to get even more radical in his actions. He will gather his roses while he may.

Let us rather expend our energy in useful and positive ways, like doing everything we can to oust every single republican and republican sympathizer in the next election. It is within our power to do this. A Democratic congress could stymie him either by their votes in committee or on the floor, or by instituting diversions like investigations and impeachment proceedings.

Let us not forget that Bush is not the only promulgator of evil republicanism. They can be found strutting their stuff in state and local offices too. Even non-partisan offices like school boards have these yimyaks trying to take control.

So, vote straight Democrat. Vote for Democrat sympathizers in non-partisan elections. And vote in numbers great enough to overwhelm any built-in bias in the voting machines. Don't waste a single vote on a third party candidate, because the system is rigged to allow only two parties to exist in any significant way. Give money to the Democratic party and its candidates. Offer to work to get the vote out. Maybe get a bumper sticker that says "NOT A REPUBLICAN". Do all this regardless of what the Democratic candidate is like. We must not falter or fail in this. The future of the nation and the planet depend on this. The time to do all this is NOW.

Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 09:28 AM

Bush has achieved his goals with the assistance of the Democrats. The Real ID Act was passed 100-0 by the US Senate. Because of this act, you will need a biometric ID to walk the streets of America by 2008. Internal passports (as in Nazi Germany). Passed 100-0 by the Senate. So show me where voting for Democrats makes a difference.

You know in your guts folks you've been bamboozled by the two-party system. It is really one party. Rush Limbaugh says Ted Kennedy wrote Bush's education bill, and it is indeed a communist child-hating abomination. Hillary Clinton supports war in Iraq. The Democrats are having their way domestically and internationally under Bush, and casting your vote for Democrats won't make a bit of difference.

First get the electronic voting machines out of your community, then vote for the best candidate for the position, regardless of party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 09:37 AM

Dead right. The political parties are a sham. Vote for the best individual candidate that is available, regardless of party affiliation, and you might have a shred of hope of getting a decent government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Al
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 10:28 AM

Guest and LH,
It's this kind of thinking that will enable GWB to slash and burn at will, and get us another Bush clone in 2008. Your thinking is intuitively correct, but practically wrong IMHO.
Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 12:33 PM

I'd like to see Bush out of office just as much as you would, Al, so I can appreciate your concern about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 01:45 PM

I'm with Al on this.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 09:39 PM

Ya know, Guest, you're right that I shorthanded that statement in a way that was misleading.

But your churlish guttersnipe remarks are unnecessary, unwelcome and quite off the mark.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Al
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 10:23 PM

What Amos said.
Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Repubicans The Party Of Death
From: Al
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 11:23 PM

You know, Guests comments kind of sound like they are coming straight from the lips of .......No, couldn't be.......could it?


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