Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 11:51 AM

I'm not sure how I've managed to piss off Mr. Campin... so I suggest that he not read anymore of my posts in order to keep his blood pressure within bounds.

For the rest of you masochists....

I "refound" the lyrics to Stingo while trying to find the dance pattern... I did find some videos on youtube that looked like fun..
so I'm guessing that I should try to find some videos of Cold & Raw next. And if I find some new lyrics, will take life in hand & share them.

I can understand why this tune has had such a workout over the centuries... it really is fun.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 09:28 AM

The lyrics of A CUP OF OLD STINGO, which begin "There's a lusty liquor which good fellows used to take—a," can be seen in In Praise of Ale: Or, Songs, Ballads, Epigrams, & Anecdotes Relating to Beer, Malt and Hops, collected and arranged by W. T. Marchant (London: George Redway, 1888), page 409.

The tune and first verse, called STINGO, or THE OIL OF BARLEY, or COLD AND RAW can be seen in Old English Popular Music, Volume 1 by William Chappell (London: Chappell & Co, 1893), page 298f. Further, it states that the tune is from "The Dancing Master, 1650, &c." and the words are from "Merry Drollery Complete, 1661 and 1670"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: sciencegeek
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 07:56 AM

http://www.lukehistory.com/ballads/stingo.html which I forgot to include in my copy paste....

that is where I got it from & in my too fast scrolling down the thread missed it's match to SOMEONE ELSE"S POST

Subject: Lyr Add: A CUP OF OLD STINGO
From: Q - PM
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 02:42 PM

A CUP OF OLD STINGO
Merry Drollery Complete, 1661 (1691 ed.)
and then
Subject: ADD: Stingo
From: GUEST,999 - PM
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 02:08 AM

Stingo
Also called the Oyle of Barley, or Juice of Barley. Later called Cold and Raw.
The song "A Cup of Old Stingo" from the Merry Drollery Complete (1661):

my mea culpa will be that it is the crack of dawn for me...

PS... I had no trouble with singing this to the tune, even as less than awake I was... the original dance tune works just fine...

I think of Malcolm Douglas whenever I hear the tune... really regret never getting to meet him... a fine gentleman

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 07:21 AM

"Stumbled across" WHERE? You posted exactly the same text in this thread on 8 August 2009 and didn't say where it came from then, either.

To repeat what I said back then: those words don't fit the Playford "Stingo" tune. "The Malt-man Comes on Monday" is a different tune.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: sciencegeek
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 06:06 AM

stumbled across the lyrics to Stingo - tune used by Playford


Stingo, or, Oil of Barley, or, A Cup of Old Stingo
To it's tune


There's a lusty liquor which good fellows use to take -- a,
It is distill'd with nard most rich, and water of the lake -- a;
Of hop a little quantity, and barm to it they bring too;
Being barrell'd up, they call't a cup of dainty good old stingo.

'Twill make a man indentures make, 'twill make a fool seem wise,
'Twill make a Puritan sociate, and leave to be precise;
'Twill make him dance about a cross, and eke to run the ring too,
Or anything he once thought gross, such virtue hath old stingo.

'Twill make a constable over see sometimes to serve a warrant;
'Twill make a bailiff lose his fee, though he be a knave-arrant;
'Twill make a lawyer, though that he to ruin oft men brings, too,
Sometimes forget to take his fee if his head be lin'd with stingo.

'Twill make a parson not to flinch, though he seen wondrous holy,
And for to kiss a pretty wench, and think it is no folly;
'Twill make him learn for to decline the verb that's called mingo,
'Twill make his nose like copper shine, if his head be lin'd with stingo.

'Twill make a weaver break his yarn, that works with right and left foot,
But he hath a trick to save himself, he'll say there wanteth woof to't;
'Twill make a tailor break his thread, and eke his thimble ring too,
'Twill make him not to care for bread, if his head be lin'd with stingo.

'Twill make a baker quite forget that ever corn was cheap,
'Twill make a butcher have a fit sometimes to dance and leap;
'Twill make the miller keep his room, a health for to begin, too,
'Twill make him shew his golden thumb, if his head be lin'd with stingo.

'Twill make an hostess free of heart, and leave her measures pinching,
'Twill make an host with liquor part, and bid him hang all flinching;
It's so belov'd, I dare protest, men cannot live without it,
And when they find there is the best the most will flock about it.

And finally, the beggar poor, that walks till he be weary,
Craving along from door to door, with pre-commiserere;
If he do change to catch a touch, although his clothes be thin, too,
Though he be lame, he'll prove his crutch if his head be lin'd with stingo.

Now to conclude, here is a health unto the lad that spendeth,
Let every man drink off his can, and so my ditty endeth;
I willing am my friend to pledge, for he will meet me one day;
Let's drink the barrel to the dregs, for the malt-man comes a-Monday.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 01:04 AM

Indeed, Martin Ryan. If every thread went off after another song, as this one has with Cold & Raw, just because some broadside headnote mentioned some songs or dances of similar title share a tune, every thread would pretty well go on to ∞!

Still, as subject is here: the air I used for Cold & Raw on my 1959 Brewhouse album Butter&Cheese&All I had learnt from Bert Lloyd. I mentioned in my notes that another tune used for versions of that same song occurs in John Gay's The Beggar's Opera (1728), carrying Mrs Peachum's song "If any wench Venus's girdle wear" {Air III, Act I sc iv}.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: GUEST,Iona
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 08:18 PM

You might be right, Tootler, I didn't read the whole thread. I was just replying to Jim McLean. Whom, I think, was referencing Liam Clancy's version (which is definitely different from the main one discussed here. :)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: MartinRyan
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 04:57 AM

Wonderfully confused thread - a proper Mudcat classic.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Tootler
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 04:36 AM

Methinks Guest Iona hath the wrong thread.

No Gaelic in this song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: GUEST,Iona
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 01:48 AM

There's a lot of debate over the gaelic in the chorus, but the translation I've heard the most is "The milk of the Cow is all right for the calf". Liam does certainly do a lovely job with it--as usual. ;)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 03:19 PM

I miss Malcolm too.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: sciencegeek
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 09:20 AM

LOL....   more leads to follow... great

it's a pity that Malcolm Douglas is no longer here to enjoy this.

BTW... the Rose Ensemble CD is really great & I heartily endorse it.

Subject: ADD: Stingo
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 02:08 AM

Stingo
Also called the Oyle of Barley, or Juice of Barley. Later called Cold and Raw.
The song "A Cup of Old Stingo" from the Merry Drollery Complete (1661):

There's a lusty liquor which
good fellows used to take-a;
It is distilled with Nard most rich
And water of the lake-a.


Of hop a little quantity,
And Barm to it they bring too;
Being barrelled up, they call't a cup
of dainty good old stingo.


From the Roxburghe Collection, a black-lettered ballad from the reign of Charles 1, "The Little Barley-corn":
Come and do not musing stand,
if thou the truth discerne:
but take a full cup in thy hand,
and thus begin to learne.
Not of the earth, nor of the ayre,
at evening or at morne;
but joviall boyes, your Christmas keep
with the littl eBarley-Corne.


It is the cunningst Alchimist,
that ere was in the land:
Twil change your mettle when it list,
in turning of a hand.
Your blushing gold to silver wan,
Your silver into brasse:
Twill turne a Taylor to a man,
and a man into an asse.


From notes.

Twill make a man indentures make,
Twill make a fool seem wise,
Twill make a Puritan sociate,
And leave to be precise:
Twill make him dance about a cross,
And eke to run the ring too,
Or anything he once thought gross,
Such virtue hath Old Stingo.


Twil make a constable oversee
Sometimes to serve a warrant,
Twill make a baliff lose his fee,
Thought he be a knave-arrant;
Twill make a lawyer, though that he
To ruin oft men brings, too,
Sometimes forget to take his fee,
If his head be lin'd with Stingo.


Twill make a parson not to flinch,
Though he seem wondrous holy,
And for to kiss a pretty wench,
And think it is no folly;
Twill make him learn for to decline
The very that's called Mingo,
Twill make his nose like copper shine,
If his head be lin'd with Stingo.


Twill make a weaver break his yarn,
That works with right and left foot,
But he hath a trick to save himself,
He'll say there wanteth woof to't;
Twill make a tailor break his thread,
And eke his thimble ring too,
Twill make him not to care for bread,
If his head be lin'd with Stingo.


Sources:
Playford, The English Dancing Master.
Chappell, Old English Popular Music.


From

http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/music/cecilia.html

---

Google


In praise of ale: or, Songs, ballads, epigrams, & anecdotes ... - Google Books Result

Go to page 328


There seem to be more verses to the song there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Jim McLean
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 11:41 AM

I have always understood the chorus lyrics to mean 'the milk from the cows and the goats' (are not for me) ..' and the song was not written by Liam Clancey although he copyrighted it. Have a look here. Juice of the Barley

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: sciencegeek
Date: 06 Jan 10 - 07:07 AM

Thanks for that link...
but the Juice of Barley and Juice of the Barley are two very different songs and tunes...

which has caused no end of misunderstandings in thhis poor little thread. LOL

lyrics sung by Rose Ensemble

Come, and doe not musing stand
if thou the truth discerne
But take a full cup in thy hand,
and thus begin to learne-
Not of the earth, nor of the ayre,
at evening or at morne-
But joviall boyes your Christmas keep,
with the little Barly-Corne.

"Twill make a weeping widow laugh,
and soon incline to pleasure;
"Twill make an old man leave his staffe,
and dance a youthfull measure:
And though your clothes be ne'er so bad,
and ragged, rent and torne,
Against the cold you may be clad
with the little Barly-Corne.

"Twill make a miser prodigall,
and shew himself kind hearted;
"Twill make him never grieve at all,
that from his coyne hath parted;
"Twill make a shepard to mistake
his sheepe before a storme;
"Twill make the poet to excel;
this little Barley-Corne.

it is the neatest serving man
to entertain a friend;
It will doe more than money can
all jarring suits to end;
There's life in it, and it is here,
'tis here within this cup,
Then take your liquor, doe not spare,
but cleare carouse it up.

the tune is also known as Stingo & Oyle of Barley

You can hear it played by Bare Neccessities on You tube... some folks are dancing to it... under Juice of Barley,

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 06:44 AM

Sorry, not just Liam but all the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 06:40 AM

Here is Liam Clancy singing it on YouTube. John Allen Cameron also did a great version.

Juice Of The Barley

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: sciencegeek
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:40 AM

Listening to our classical station out of Rochester, I heard a group actually singing Juice of Barley. The Rose Ensemble has a new CD, "And Glory Shone Around" which includes several Playford selections, s well as Southern harmony, Shaker tunes and more.

The cd includes lyrics... but my fingers are too cold to add them right now.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:38 PM

The 'Irish' song, "The Juice of the Barley," is by Liam Clancy.
It shows in the BMI records of copyright:

The Juice of the Barley, Liam Clancy, SOCAN; C#6251522
Juice of the Barley, Clancy Bros. and Makem, BMI 30677298

Lyrics posted by Leadfiners 14 Aug 06, amd remarked on by Malcolm Douglas, same date.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:28 PM

Up above there is a link to Bruce Olson's old website and the song "The Little Barly-Corne."
Like "A Cup of Old Stingo," it has many verses; here are the first three:

Come, and doe not musing stand,
If thou the truth discerne,
But take a full cup in thy hand,
And thus begin to learne--
Not of the earth, nor of the ayre,
at evening or at morn--
But jovial boyes your Christmas keep,
with the little Barly-Corne.

It is the cunningst alchhymist
that ere was in the land;
'Twill change your mettle, when it list,
in turning of a hand--
Your blushing gold to silver wan,
your silver into brasse--
'Twill turne a taylor to a man,
and a man into an asse.

"Twill make a poor man rich, to hang
a signe before his doore;
And those that doe the pitcher bang,
though rich, 'twill make them poore;
'Twill make the silliest pooest snake
the King's great Porter scorne;
'Twill make the stoutest lubber weak,
this little Barly-Corne.

etc.

Subject: Lyr Add: A CUP OF OLD STINGO
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 02:42 PM

A CUP OF OLD STINGO
Merry Drollery Complete, 1661 (1691 ed.)

There's a lusty liquor which
good fellows used to take;
It is distilled with Nard most rich
And water of the lake;
Of hop a little quantity,
And Barm to it they bring too;
Being barrell'd up, they call't a cup
of dainty good old stingo.

'Twill a man Indentures make,
'Twill make a fool seem wise,
'Twill make a Puritan sociate,
And leave to be precize;
'Twill make him dance about a Cross,
And eke run the ring too,
Or anything that seemeth gross,
Such vertue hath old Stingo.

'Twill make a Constable oversee
Sometimes to serve a warrant,
'Twill make a Baylif lose his Fee,
Though he be a knave-Arrant;
'Twill make a sumner, though that he
Unto the bawd men brings too,
Sometimes forget to take his Fee,
If his head be lin'd with Stingo.

'Twill make a parson not to flinch,
Though he seems wondrous holy,
But for to kiss a pretty Wench,
And think it is no follie;
'Twill make him learn for to decline
The Verb that's called Mingo,
'Twill make his nose like copper shine,
If his head be lin'd with Stingo.

'Twill make a weaver break his yarn,
That works with right and left foot,
But he hath a trick to save himself,
He'll say, there wanteth woofe to't;
'Twill make a Taylor break his thread,
And eke his Thimble ring too,
'Twill make him not to care for bread
If his head be lin'd with Stingo.

'Twill make a baker quite forget
That ever corn was cheap,
'Twill make a Butcher have a fit
Sometimes to dance and leap;
'Twill make a Miller keep his Room,
A health for to begin too,
'Twill make him shew his golden thumb,
If hid head be lin'd with stingo.

'Twill make an Hostis free of heart,
And leave her measures pinching,
'Twill make an Host with liquor part,
And bid him hang all flinching;
It's so belov'd, I dare protest,
Men cannot live without it,
And where they find there is the best,
The Most will flock about it.

And finally, the beggar poor,
That walks till he be weary,
Craving along from door to door
With pre commiserere:
If he do chance to catch a touch,
Although his cloaths be thin too,
Though he be lame he'll prove his Crutch,
If his head be lin'd with Stingo.

Now to conclude, here is a health
Unto the Lad that spendeth,
Let every man drink off his Can,
And so my Ditty endeth;
I willing am my friend to pledge,
For he will meet me one day;
Let's drink the Barrel to the dregs,
For the Mault-man comes a Munday.

From typescript at archive.org, on line; there may be minor errors.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1
From: Anglo
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 02:38 AM

...and there's also a version by the Toronto Consort, on their CD - wait for it - The Little Barley-Corne. Much as before, with one "new" verse:

If sickness come, this physick take, it from your heart will set it
If feare encroach take more of it, your heart will soon forget it
Apollo and the muses nine do take it in no scorne
So joviall boyes your Christmas keep with the little Barly-Corne.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1
From: Anglo
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 02:27 AM

And Ellen Hargis, with The King's Noyse, sings a somewhat shorter version on The King's Delight.

1st verse as above, 2nd verse the weeping widow,

3rd:
'Twill make a miser prodigall and shew himself kind hearted
'Twill make him never grieve at all that from his coyne hath parted
'Twill make a shepheard to mistake his sheepe before a storme
'Twill make a poet to excell; this little Barly-Corne

And 4th verse the serving man.

The new verse probably comes from Roxburghe also.

Subject: Lyr Add: A LITTLE BARLEY-CORNE
From: Tootler
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 06:24 PM

Maddy Prior sings this version on the album "Hang up Sorrow and Care" (with the Carnival Band).

A LITTLE BARLEY-CORNE
Words: Roxburghe ballad collection
Tune: Stingo

Come and doe not musing stand if thou the truth discerne
But take a full cup in thy hand and thus begin to learne
Not of the earth nor of the ayre, at evening or at morne
But joviall boys your barley keep with the little Barley-Corne

It is the cunning alchymist that ere was in this land
'Twill change your metal when it list, in turning of a hand
Your blushing gold to silver wan, your silver into brasse
'Twill turn a taylor to a man and a man into an asse.

It lends more yeeres unto old age than 'ere was lent by nature
It makes the poet's fance rage more than Castalian water
'Twill make the huntsman chase a fox and never wind his horne;
'Twill cheer a tinker in the stocks, this little Barley-Corne.

It is the neatest serving man to entertain a friend;
It will do more than money can all jarring suits to end
There's life in it, and it is here, 'tis here within this cup
Then take your liquor, do not spare, but cleare carouse it up.

'Twill make a weeping widow laugh and soon incline to pleasure
'Twill make an old man leave his staff and dance a youthfull measure;
And though your clothes be ne'er so bad, all ragged, rent and torne
Against the cold you may be clad with a little Barley-Corne.

'Twill make a coward not to shrinke but be as stout as maybe;
'Twill make a man that he shall thinke that Joan's as good as my Lady
It will inrich the palest face and with rubies it adorne
Yet you shall think it no disgrace, this little Barley-Corne.

Thus the Barley-Corne hath power e'en for to change our nature
And make a miser in an hour prove a kind-hearted creature;
And therefore here I say, let man take 't in scorne
That I the vertues do proclaime of the little Barley-Corne.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 04:04 PM

Usually these printed lyrics get posted early. Not so with this song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: sciencegeek
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 03:58 PM

LOL   I started this thread almost 3 years ago to the day... and in the space of one weekend I now have 3 sets of lyrics! And each set will work with my original tune... of course, it will take some work to get them all straight in my poor oldtimer head.

Thanks, guys.... and here's hoping a few more verses show up to keep us on our toes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 02:29 PM

The Northern Ditty PART II
(continued)

Riding down a narrow lane,
Some two or three hours after,
There I chanc'd to meet again,
The farmer's bonny daughter;
Although it was both raw and cold
I stay'd to hold a parley,
And shew'd once more my purse of gold,
When she had sold her barley.

Love said I pray do not frown,
But let us change embraces,
I'll buy thee a new silken gown,
With ribbons, gloves and laces,
A ring and bodkin, muff and fan,
No lady shall be neater,
For as I am an honest man,
I ne'er saw a sweeter creature.

Then I took her by the hand,
And said my dearest jewel,
Why should thou disputing stand,
I prithee be not cruel.
She found my mind was fully bent,
To please my fond desires,
Therefore she seemed to consent,
But I wish I'd ne'er come near her.

Sir, said she, what shall I do,
If I commit this evil,
And yield myself in love with you,
I hope you will prove civil?
You talk of ribbons, gloves and rings,
And likewise gold and treasure,
O let me first enjoy these things,
And you shall have your pleasure.

Sure thy will shall be obey'd,
Said I my own dear honey,
Then into her soft lap I laid,
Full forty pounds of money.
We'll to the market town this day
And straightway end this quarrel,
I'll deck you like a lady gay,
In flourishing rich apparel.
All my gold and silver there,
To her I did deliver,
On the road we did repair,
But coming top a river,
Whose waters were both deep and wide,
Such rivers I never saw many,
She leap'd her mare on the other side,
And left me not one penny.

Then my heart was sunk full low,
With grief and care surrounded,
After her I could not go,
For fear of being drownded;
She turn'd about and says behold,
I'm not for your devotion,
But Sir I thank you for your gold,
'Twill serve to enlarge my portion.

I began to stamp and stare,
To see what she had acted,
With my poor hands I tore my hair,
Like one that was distracted;
Give me my money then I cry'd,
Good faith I did but lend it,
But she full fast away did ride,
And vow'd she did not intend it.

Printed by J. Pitts, Seven Dials, [London] Price One Penny.
Bodleian Collection, Harding B 1(87).
Printed without verses; I have added a few breaks for clarity.

Subject: Northern Ditty, or the Scotchman Outwitted
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 01:53 PM

Chappell only printed the beginning of D'Urfey's version. Here is the entire song, or at least a song sheet rendition of it.

The Northern Ditty, Or,
the Scotchman outwitted by the Country Damsel
To which is added, A SECOND PART, Shewing how she
leap'd over a river and run away with his money.
To a new Scotch tune; or, Cold and Raw the North did Blow.


Cold and raw the north did blow,
Bleak in a morning early,
All the trees were hid with snow,
Covered with winter yearly;
As I was riding o'er the slough,
I met with a farmer's daughter,
Rosy cheeks and bony brow,
Good faith my mouth did water.
Down I veil'd my bonnet low,
Meaning to shew my breeding,
She return'd a graceful bow,
Her visage far exceeding;
I ask'd her where she was going so soon,
And long'd to begin to parley,
She told me the next market town,
On purpose to sell her barley.

In this purse, sweet soul, said I,
Twenty pound lie fairly,
Seek no further one to buy,
For I'll take all thy barley;
Twenty pounds more shall purchase delight
Thy person I love so dearly,
If thou will lie with me all night,
And gang home in the morning early.

If forty pounds will buy the globe,
This thing I would not do sir,
Or were my friends as poor as Job
I'd never raise them so sir,
For should you prove one night my friend,
We get a young kid together,
And you'll be gone e'er nine months end;
Then where would find the father.
Pray what would my poor parents say,
If I would be so silly,
To give my maidenhead away,
And lose my true-loye Billy?
O! This would bring me to disgrace,
Therefore I say you nay, sir.
And if that you would me embrace
First marry and then you may, sir.

I told her I had wedded been,
Full fourteen years and longer,
Else I would choose her for my queen,
And tie the knot more stronger;

She bid me then no farther come,
But manage my wedlock fairly
And keep my purse for my spouse at home,
Some other should have her barley.

Then full as swift as any roe,
She rode away and left me,
And after her I could not go,
Of joy she quite bereft me;
THus I myself did disappoint,
For she did leave me fairly,
My words knock'd all things out of joint
I lost both the maid and the barley.

Harding B 1(87)

Part II to come-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 04:44 AM

If I remember right, the Irish words go to a tune very much like "Rosin the Bow" (at least, the chorus is like it) -neither "Stingo" nor "The maltman comes on Monday". There are three different tunes involved here as well as several different sets of words.

Anybody got an ABC for the Irish song's tune?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1
From: Anglo
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 01:50 AM

Well, crap, I archived the thread first and lost the message I hadn't posted yet, which was, approximately:

I hadn't come across the longer set of lyrics that sciencegeek posted above, recently, but they're most interesting. Thank you.

Cold And Raw is usually done to a different tune in the northeast of England, but they're obviously related. I think Tom Gilfellon recorded it with the High Level Ranters a while ago.

The new lyrics were interesting enough for me to archive the thread, but since I did that already I can now post my retyped message.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Silas
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 01:35 AM

Err.....
Did you know that Val Doonegan has recorded this song? Yes, Really!

Subject: Lyr Add: COLD AND RAW THE NORTH DID BLOW
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 07:52 PM

Thanks to sciencegeek, the words to "A Cup of Old Stingo," from Wm. Chappell, "Popular Music ...," now are posted.
Continuing on p. 309, he gives three verses of Tom D'Urfey's "last new Scotch song," "Cold and raw the north did blow..." Chappell says "the three remaining stanzas would not be very courteously received in Queen Victoria's Tempora mutantur".

Cold and raw the north did blow
Bleak in the morning early
All the trees were hid with snow;
Daggled in winter's yearly:

As I came riding on the slough,
I met a farmer's daughter,
With rosy cheeks and bonny brow,
Good faith, made my mouth water.

Down I veil'd my bonnet low,
Thinking to show my breeding;
She returned a graceful bow-
A village far exceeding.

I ask'd her where she went so soon,
I long'd to begin a parley,
She told me to the next market town
On purpose to sell her barley.

Subject: Tune Add: JUICE OF BARLEY / OIL OF BARLEY / STINGO
From: sciencegeek
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 07:51 PM

Both sets of words fit the tune I learned & enjoyed so much.

JUICE OF BARLEY [1]. AKA and see "Oil of Barley," "Stingo," "Cold andRaw" and "Lulle Me Beyond Thee." English, Country Dance Tune (6/8 time). A Minor. Standard tuning. ABB. 'Juice of Barley' = beer. As "Stingo" or "Oil of Barley," the melody first appears in John Playford's first edition of his English Dancing Master (1651), however, by the time of his 1695 edition it appeared as "Juice of Barley." See notes under alternate titles for more. Barnes (English Country Dance Tunes), 1986. Johnson (The Kitchen Musician No. 14: Songs, Airs and Dances of the 18th Century), 1997; pg. 9. Sharp (Country Dance Tunes), 1909/1994; pg. 55. Varrick C‑VR‑013, Bare Necessities ‑ "English Country Dances" (1987).

X:1

T:Juice of Barley [1]

M:6/8

L:1/8

S:Sharp – Country Dance Tunes (1909)

Z:AK/Fiddler's Companion

K:A Minor

A2A e2d|efg G2G|A2A e2c|A3 c3|A2A e2d|efg G2G|A2A e2c|A3 c3||

|:c2c c2 B/c/|d2d d2d|e2e a2g|e3 g3|c2c c2 B/c/|d2d d>ef|e.dc BcG|A3 e3:|

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: sciencegeek
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 07:45 PM

The words to scan with the tune Juice of Barley that I learned from the Bare Necessities album back in the mid '80s.

The liner notes read:
Juice of barley (1690) is a spritely, flowing Irish-sounding tune that was once a popular song. A good dance for beginners. (Longways, 7x through dance and tune.)The tune can be heard on the link below....

Malcolm Douglas provided info about Playford... I have not been able to get my hands on a hardcopy of the book to check it out. My attempts to access the info online has been frustrating & unsuccessful.

However, I finally found this link & it is the same tune, though he ends the line on a higher note than the country dance tune.

http://www.shaysrebellion.stcc.edu/shaysapp/music.do?shortName=barley

they used these verses...

There's a lusty liquor which
Good fellows use to take-o;
It is distilled with Nard most rich,
And water of the lake-o,
Of hop a little quantity,
And barm to it they bring too;
Being barrell'd up, they call't a cup
Of good old dainty stingo.

'Twill make a constable over see
Sometimes to serve a warrant;
'Twill make a bailiff lose his fee,
Though he be a knave-arrrant;
'Twill make a lawyer, though that he
To ruin oft men brings, too,
Sometime forget to take his fee
If his head be lin'd with stingo

Be merry my friends, and list a while
Unto a merry jest,
It may from you produce a smile,
When you heare it exprest:
Of a young man lately married,
Which was a boone good fellow;
This song in's head he always carried,
When drink made him mellow.
I cannot go home, nor I will not go home,
It's 'long of the oyle of Barly,
I'le tarry all night for my delight,

And go home in the morning early.

Subject: Tune Add: THE MALT-MAN
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 07:23 PM

That latest set of words doesn't fit Playford's "Stingo" tune. It's probably intended for "The Malt Man Comes on Monday", a 9/8 jig which i think was first published in Scottish sources of the mid-18th century. Here's a slightly later version, from the Gows' Second Repository. The first strain is the relevant one. (Staccato and slur marks omitted).

  X:1
  T:The Malt-man
  S:Gow's Complete Repository book 2
  M:9/8
  L:1/8
  K:G
  D       |E/F/GG G2g dBG| F2A AEA TF2D|E/F/GG G2g def|g2G G>AG G2:|
  c       |Bcd    efg dBG|TF2A AEA TF2D|dBd    ece def|g2G GAG  G2:|
  d//e//f/|g3    Tf2e dBG|TF2A AEA TF2D|gag   Tf2e def|g2G GAG  G2:|

If I remember right James Oswald really did a number on that, with lots of added sections.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Paul Burke
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 06:52 PM

"Bainne an mBo is an gamhna" was explained to me as "leave the cow's milk to the calf", and the jewess of the barley for me.

Subject: Lyr Add: A CUP OF OLD STINGO
From: sciencegeek
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 06:42 PM

For any care... at long last I found the lyrics to go to tune "Juice of Barley" found in Playford.

A similar version is on Shay's Rebellion site

Stingo, or, Oil of Barley, or, A Cup of Old Stingo
To it's tune

There's a lusty liquor which good fellows use to take -- a,
It is distill'd with nard most rich, and water of the lake -- a;
Of hop a little quantity, and barm to it they bring too;
Being barrell'd up, they call't a cup of dainty good old stingo.

'Twill make a man indentures make, 'twill make a fool seem wise,
'Twill make a Puritan sociate, and leave to be precise;
'Twill make him dance about a cross, and eke to run the ring too,
Or anything he once thought gross, such virtue hath old stingo.

'Twill make a constable over see sometimes to serve a warrant;
'Twill make a bailiff lose his fee, though he be a knave-arrant;
'Twill make a lawyer, though that he to ruin oft men brings, too,
Sometimes forget to take his fee if his head be lin'd with stingo.

'Twill make a parson not to flinch, though he seen wondrous holy,
And for to kiss a pretty wench, and think it is no folly;
'Twill make him learn for to decline the verb that's called mingo,
'Twill make his nose like copper shine, if his head be lin'd with stingo.

'Twill make a weaver break his yarn, that works with right and left foot,
But he hath a trick to save himself, he'll say there wanteth woof to't;
'Twill make a tailor break his thread, and eke his thimble ring too,
'Twill make him not to care for bread, if his head be lin'd with stingo.

'Twill make a baker quite forget that ever corn was cheap,
'Twill make a butcher have a fit sometimes to dance and leap;
'Twill make the miller keep his room, a health for to begin, too,
'Twill make him shew his golden thumb, if his head be lin'd with stingo.

'Twill make an hostess free of heart, and leave her measures pinching,
'Twill make an host with liquor part, and bid him hang all flinching;
It's so belov'd, I dare protest, men cannot live without it,
And when they find there is the best the most will flock about it.

And finally, the beggar poor, that walks till he be weary,
Craving along from door to door, with pre-commiserere;
If he do change to catch a touch, although his clothes be thin, too,
Though he be lame, he'll prove his crutch if his head be lin'd with stingo.

Now to conclude, here is a health unto the lad that spendeth,
Let every man drink off his can, and so my ditty endeth;
I willing am my friend to pledge, for he will meet me one day;
Let's drink the barrel to the dregs, for the malt-man comes a-Monday.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: sciencegeek
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 09:48 AM

huh???? "sciencegeek"'s comment sounds to me like yet another example of "I like it so it can't be English". ????

call me dense, but folk/traditional music includes everything from recent compositions ( both melody and/or lyrics) to stuff that has been around for generations and been "folk processed" over the centuries.... it's what people do best... play around with stuff. It's kept ethnomusicologists busy for some time now, trying to figure out the "chicken vs. egg" relationships.


so referring to one minor subset doesn't have any bearing on any other aspect of the genre.... at least not in my little world

I love music,I love to sing and I like having fun with music.... so when a happy tune also fits the meter of a sad song, it's kinda fun to pair the two together for a brief lark. It's also fun when you have a song you like and find more than one tune that it's sung to... especially if you like both tunes...

but what drives me nuts is when I hear a great tune and I have no words to pair up with it.... and I'm not enough of a wordsmith to create my own song, so I need to track down lyrics.... and that's all this was.... a search to see if the lyrics are still extant for this really great tune.... no political or philosophical agendas... just a hope that someone might have a lead :)

I'm amazed at how this "what I thought was a simple request" has taken on a life of it's own. I'd still like to find the lyrics, but I also think we might need to "chill" a little and give each other the benefit of not putting words in their mouth.

I'm perfectly capable of putting my own foot in my mouth all by my little lonesome. And this is a joke... OK..... lol

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 09:40 AM

You know I have always heard that chorus as (Phoeticaly) "Singing Bannion and bow, whistling Ownagh, the juice of the barley for me."

Funny old world init. Mind you, I suppose spellings have changed a lot since 1690...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 06:42 AM

The distinctive thing about the "Stingo"/"Oil of Barley" tune is that it *isn't* "flowing". It's aggressively syncopated, in a way that has no parallel in any traditional Irish tune I can think of (though there are plenty of Scottish examples, it was one of the markers of a "Scotch tune" long before the strathspey existed).

"sciencegeek"'s comment sounds to me like yet another example of "I like it so it can't be English".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1
From: sciencegeek
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 08:33 PM

thanks, leeneia....

the words you provided scan to the tune and fit the spirit nicely... so I'll see if I can more to fill it out.

and check out the other sites as well.

as for other names of the tune, the fun part of folk music goes back to the idea of "what, you've got a good tune and you only used it once???"
'
most broadside ballads were just printed lyrics that were sung to a variety of commonly used tunes... as long as it fit the tune, it was the singer's choice.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 06:32 PM

The tune is older than 1690; though the earliest musical example we know of is of 1651, it was specified on song sheets some years before that date. Perhaps the cd reference is to the 1690 edition of Playford.

The trouble is that there were so many songs sung to this tune, or to variant forms of it under various titles. Parts of some have already been quoted; there were many more. The lines Leeneia quotes are from a much longer broadside song registered in 1632, The little Barly-Corne; the full text can be seen at the late Bruce Olson's website:

http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/Olson/SONGTXT2.HTM#BRLYCRN

Scroll down a little.

Laurence Price's Good Ale for my Money (c.1629-32; see reference above) is transcribed at

http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/Olson/LPRICE.HTM#GOODALE

Although we can't be certain of such things, it's likely that the tune-name 'Oyle of Barley' derived from the Price song. Whether that's the "popular song" that 'Bare Necessities' meant, I wouldn't know; there are many possibilities, though this is among the earliest.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 04:54 PM

I have a book called Jacobean and Restoration Musicke for the Recorder, and it has these words, which it says are from the reign of Charles I. It also says that at least 19 Restoration broadsides were sung to this popular tune.

It [ale or beer] is the cunningist alchemist
that e'er was in the land.
'Twill change your mettle when it list
in turning of a hand.
Your blushing gold to silver wan
your silver into brass.
'Twill turn a tailor to a man
and a man into an ass.

"Twill make a miser prodigal,
and show himself kind-hearted.
"Twill make him never grieve at all
that from his coin hath parted.

Twill make a shepherd to mistake
his sheep before a storm
"Twill make the poet to excel,
this little Barley-corn.

In late editions of Playford, this tune is known as Cold and Raw. "Cold and Raw," the book says, was a favorite of Queen Mary, consort to William of Orange, much to the disgust of the composer Henry Purcell.


So, sciencegeek, your interest in this tune now puts you in the company of the rich and famous, albeit the deceased rich and famous.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1
From: sciencegeek
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 04:24 PM

OK, the CD liner for English Country Dances is pretty sparse...

Juice of barley (1690) is a spritely, flowing Irish-sounding tune that was once a popular song. A good dance for beginners. (Longways, 7x through dance and tune.)

I've never heard of Allmusic.com, and it didn't showup in my goggle search.

I had no more information to give. As I said, I googled a lot about the dance... but I was hoping that someone had info about the song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 06:15 PM

I'd guess that 'Downriver to the Sea' is just a sub-title deriving from the use of the tune as part of the incidental music in a 1997 American PBS documentary, Lewis & Clark: The Journey of the Corps of Discovery, and has no other bearing on this discussion. Now would be the time for somebody (ideally 'sciencegeek', who asked the question in the first place) to provide in full whatever information 'Bare Necessities' provided in their sleeve notes.

What exactly did they say? Exactly what source and/or copyright information was given? Please, when asking a question, tell us what you already know. It saves people wasting valuable time following up false leads (like the much later Irish song mentioned earlier) or filling in gaps that needn't have been there in the first place.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 05:27 PM

At Allmusic.com, in the description of the Bare Necessities album "English Country Dances" (1989) it says the full title of the cut is JUICE OF BARLEY (DOWNRIVER TO THE SEA).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Peace
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:35 AM

Thank you, Malcolm.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:25 AM

We are talking here about two completely unrelated songs; or, more accurately, a tune that carried, at different times, a number of different songs, and another song to a different tune that happens to share a common phrase with the first, which is the subject of this thread. I thought I'd mention that in case later readers should become confused.

The Irish song has nothing at all to do with the tune "sciencegeek" wanted to know about.

On the subject of "wild oats", I rather suspect that whoever suggested that "juice of barl[e]y" is or was an equivalent term for women, made that up all by themselves; though the final word on that is best left to the lexicographers if they should chance to pass by.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 12:22 AM

I sing it as "Tha an banya air son mise gle dhona"
"Ha un ban-ya arson mish-ah glay goan-ah"
" Milk is very bad for me"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'juice of barley', song from about 1690
From: Brían
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 08:15 PM

The chorus should be:

Bainne na mbó is an gamhna(Bah-nyuh nuh moe iss un gow-nuh)And the Juice of the Barley for me.

Brían