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BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask?
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BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Sep 06 - 07:02 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Sep 06 - 07:11 AM BTW, Canada Religions Roman Catholic 42.6%, Protestant 23.3% (including United Church 9.5%, Anglican 6.8%, Baptist 2.4%, Lutheran 2%), other Christian 4.4%, Muslim 1.9%, other and unspecified 11.8%, none 16% (2001 census) SOURCES: CIA World Factbook; World Jewish Congress (WJC), 1998; 2002 Report of Jehovah's Witnesses Worldwide; World Values Survey; Catholic Hierarchy.org; International Religious Freedom Report 2004 US Religions Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.) Australia Religions Catholic 26.4%, Anglican 20.5%, other Christian 20.5%, Buddhist 1.9%, Muslim 1.5%, other 1.2%, unspecified 12.7%, none 15.3% (2001 Census) United Kingdom Christian (Anglican, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist) 71.6%, Muslim 2.7%, Hindu 1%, other 1.6%, unspecified or none 23.1% (2001 census) Gaza Strip Muslim (predominantly Sunni) 98.7%, Christian 0.7%, Jewish 0.6% Germany Protestant 34%, Roman Catholic 34%, Muslim 3.7%, unaffiliated or other 28.3% |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: GUEST Date: 29 Sep 06 - 08:20 AM Canada- Religion Main article: Religion in Canada Population by religion. Only those religions with more than 250,000 respondants are included here. The census question was partly aided -- that is, the questionnaire form gave examples of some of the denominations but not others. The actual question asked is noted below. Religion Total responses % of Population Roman Catholic 12,793,125 43.2 No religion 4,796,325 16.2 United Church 2,839,125 9.6 Anglican 2,035,500 6.9 Christian n.i.e. 780,450 2.6 Baptist 729,470 2.5 Lutheran 606,590 2.0 Muslim 579,640 2.0 Protestant n.i.e. 549,205 1.9 Presbyterian 409,830 1.4 Pentecostal 369,475 1.2 Jewish 329,995 1.1 Buddhist 300,345 1.0 Hindu 297,200 1.0 Sikh 278,410 0.9 The actual question asked: "What is this person's religion? Indicate a specific denomination or religion even if this person is not currently a practising member of that group. For example, Roman Catholic, Ukrainian Catholic, United Church, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, Greek Orthodox, Jewish, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, etc." |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: GUEST Date: 29 Sep 06 - 11:37 AM I told them I was a Druid on the last census. I see it didn't make a difference. (That was just after I mentioned that my religion was none of their damned business and they said I had to answer.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: Donuel Date: 29 Sep 06 - 12:16 PM From a purely practical if not comical point of view I believe the Jews made a fatal mistake by establishing their new home in the midst of blood sworn enemies. The president of Iran asked why they didn't create Isreal in Bavaria. I ask why not South Carolina. A nation within a nation is nothing new to America. Just ask the Indians. Hilton Head sure beats the Dead Sea and stinkin desert wilderness. Sure South Carolina has some good ol boy rednecks but these Nascar types are still a whole bunch friendlier than the Arabs. easy come easy go. Comon Speilberg jump on board the South Carolina "NEW ISREAL" |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: GUEST,hugo Date: 29 Sep 06 - 03:29 PM It is a nonsense that Jews and Arabs are" blood sworn enemies". It is Zionism which has poisoned Israeli and Arab/Palestinian relationships.Prior to the drive to establish a zionist state in Palestine relationships were generally good.Indeed when the Jews of Spain fled from Christian persecution they were welcomed by muslims in North Africa and the Middle East. Hugo |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Sep 06 - 03:39 PM Later, however, this trend was reversed, so that Jews in some Arab countries such as Syria and Yemen are held as hostages to this day. ESTIMATED JEWISH POPULATION IN ARAB COUNTRIES 1948 AND 1976 _____________________________________________________________ 1948 1976 __________________________________________________________ Morocco 265,000 17,000 Algeria 140,000 500 Tunisia 105,000 2,000 Libya 38,000 20 Egypt 100,000 200 Iraq 135,000 400 Syria 30,000 4,350 Lebanon 5,000 150 Yemen 55,000 1,000 Aden 8,000 0 ________________________________________________________________ Total 881,000 25,620 With the United Nations resolution on the partition of Palestine in November 1947, Arab riots broke out against numerous Jewish communities throughout the Arab world. Jewish shops, homes and synagogues were burned and looted; hundreds of Jews were murdered, thousands were imprisoned, their movement was restricted, emigration to Israel banned and many Jews were deprived of their citizenship. Jews who at one time were influential in commerce suddenly lost their holdings; bank accounts belonging to Jews were frozen, and property valued at millions of dollars was confiscated. As in previous centuries, Jews were further removed from government agencies and their admission to public office was severely restricted. They lost their means of survival and became hostages in their own countries of birth and origin. Consequently, they could no longer remain there. Where once Jewish communities flourished and thrived, their traces have been erased as Jews in large numbers were compelled to uproot and displace themselves and to leave all their property behind. IMMIGRATION OF JEWS FROM ARAB LANDS TO ISRAEL FROM MAY 15, 1948 TO MAY 22, 1972 _____________________________________________ Country Number _____________________________________________ Morocco ) Tunisia )* 330,833 Algeria ) Libya 35,666 Egypt 29,325 Syria )* 10,402 Lebanon ) Yemen )* 50,552 Aden ) Iraq 129,292 __________________________________________________ Total 586,070 · Individual statistics for these countries were not recorded before 1950. Jewish and Palestinian immigration It is not generally known that the number of Palestinians who fled the newly formed State of Israel was surpassed by the number of Jews who were forced to emigrate from Arab countries. During the 1947 United Nations debates, the head of the Egyptian delegation warned that "the lives of a million Jews in Moslem countries will be jeopardized by the establishment of the Jewish State". Haj Amin el-Husseini, chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Executive, told that body, "If a Jewish State were established in Palestine, the position of the Jews in the Arab countries would become very precarious". "Governments", he added ominously, "have always been unable to prevent mob excitement and violence". When the State of Israel was established, the Jews in the Arab countries became hated outcasts in their own lands, terrorized, imprisoned and often banished. This led to mass immigration of Jews who sadly realized there was no future for them in the land of their birth. A review of the behavior of the various Arab countries toward their Jewish minorities reveals some difference. 1. Iraq Less than a year after Israeli independence was declared in 1948, repressive measures were taken in Iraq. Thousands of Jews were imprisoned or taken into "protective custody" on charges of "Zionism". Jews applied in large numbers for exit permits to Israel, but legislation was quickly passed freezing Jewish bank accounts and forbidding Jews to dispose of their property without special permission. Jewish emigrants who succeeded in obtaining exit visas were allowed to take only fifty kilograms of luggage per person. Soon after, a decree was issued blocking the property of all Iraqi Jews who, by leaving the country, "had relinquished their nationality" and Jewish property was sold at public auction. A year later, laws were passed, restricting the movements of Jews, barring them from schools, hospitals and other public institutions, and refusing them import and export licenses to carry on their businesses. The program was so effective, that by the middle of July 1950 more than 110,000 Iraqi Jews had registered for emigration. The Jewish community in Iraq had been one of the oldest and largest in the Arab world, and in 1948 it numbered 135,000. Over 77,000 lived in Baghdad alone, comprising a fourth of the capital's population. The community was wealthy and prestigious, and before World War II, Jews held a dominant place in the import trade and occupied high government positions. The overwhelming majority of the population was relocated to Israel, as a result of intensified anti-Jewish actions which started with the UN resolution on the partition of Palestine in 1947 and continued till after the cease fire with Israel in 1949. Hundreds were killed and imprisoned during several anti-Jewish riots. Jewish property was confiscated and Zionism, the wish to return to the Land of Zion, became a capital crime. Jews were thus forced to flee and to leave all of their belongings behind. Between 1949 and 1952, 123,371 Iraqi Jews were airlifted directly to Israel in what became to be known as "Operation Ezra and Nehemia". |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Sep 06 - 03:40 PM Morocco The Jewish community of Morocco dates back to the destruction of the First Temple in the year 586 BCE. By 1948, this ancient community, the largest in North Africa, numbered 265,000. Composed primarily of businessmen, moneychangers, artisans and traders, the Jewish population was 73% urban and constituted 9% of the total urban population of Morocco. In 1947 a large Jewish community existed in Casablanca, with over 86,000 inhabitants 8. Other cities, which had large Jewish populations, were Marrakesh, Fez, Meknes and Rabat, each comprising a population of more than 15,000 Jews in 1947 9. Immigration to Israel started upon the initiative of small groups who arrived at the time of Israel's independence. However, the waves of mass immigration, which brought a total of more than 250,000 Moroccan Jews to Israel, were prompted by anti-Jewish measures carried out in response to the establishment of the State of Israel. On June 4, 1949, riots broke out in northern Morocco killing and injuring dozens of Jews. Shortly afterwards, the Jews began to leave. During the two-year period between 1955 and 1957 alone, over 70,000 Moroccan Jews arrived in Israel. In 1956 emigration to Israel was banned and by 1959 Zionist activities became illegal in Morocco. During these years more than 30,000 Jews left for France and the Americas. In 1963, the ban on emigration to Israel was lifted bringing another 100,000 to her shores. Today, the Jewish community of Morocco has dwindled to less than 10% of its original size. Of the 17,000 Jews that remain, two-thirds live in Casablanca. Since 1964, 30 Jewish courts have been closed down, including the High Rabbinical Court. Jewish schools still exist, but many are under Muslim administration. There has been no Jewish press in Morocco since 1966 10. Generally speaking, the Jews who remain in Morocco have a reasonably stable existence, however, occasional outbursts of anti-Israel sentiments make daily life for Jews insecure. Some representatives of the Israeli Knesset have lately been invited for peace talks in Rabat, by King Hassan and were well received. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Sep 06 - 03:41 PM Algeria In 1948 there were 140,000 Jews in Algeria. Before 1962 there were 60 Jewish communities, each maintaining at least one synagogue, one Rabbi and its own educational services. During the three months between May and July of 1962 almost all the Jewish of Algeria left the country, following the Evian Agreement, which granted independence to Algeria 10. Today, there remain merely 300 Jews. During the struggle for independence, pressure was placed upon Jews to endorse the nationalistic cause. A spokesman for the Liberation Party indicated in 1960: "Jews will endure the consequences of their hesitant attitude when Algeria will come into being". In addition, the existing government also harassed them. Consequently, 14,000 Jews emigrated to Israel and another 125,000 to France, leaving behind only a tiny fraction of what used to be one of North Africa's largest Jewish communities 10. Today, the few Jews that remain in Algeria no longer maintain any independent form of communal organization. They are under the supervision of the French Secretariat of the World Jewish Congress. In Algiers, for a community that numbered 30,000 in 1960, and had 12 synagogues, only one synagogue remains. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Sep 06 - 03:42 PM Out of 856,000 Jews living in Arab countries in 1948, the overwhelming majority found refuge from Arab persecution in Israel. The remaining Jews, like the Palestinians, were dispersed throughout the world. In the various countries that they inhabited previously, many had been wealthy and prestigious members of their prosperous and well-organized local Jewish communities. However, confronted with a political and social climate of intensified and unbearable hostility, they were forcibly uprooted, leaving behind their public and private property. Consequently, the majority arrived in Israel without any means of their own. As most Jews came from countries in which they were repeatedly denied the opportunity of equal citizenship, at various times, different Arab countries imposed limitations on the Jews in the fields on education, professional life, and economic enterprise. When these circumstances compelled them to leave, the Arab states did not hesitate to proclaim appropriate decrees designed to strip the Jews of their possessions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: Big Mick Date: 29 Sep 06 - 04:09 PM You know, Bruce, that you have this very rude habit of constantly dealing with facts. How can one raise the heat if you keep throwing this factual "cold water" on them. Poor hugo will develope a mental disorder. Stop it, you cad. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: GUEST Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:36 PM Hugo hates Jews. Whatever you say will continue to fall on deaf ears. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:25 PM Hugo has demonstrated that he does not have very many facts at his diosposal, so I am trying to give him a few. He might actually have something worthwhile to say, once he figures out that the facts actually do matter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: GUEST,hugo Date: 30 Sep 06 - 09:41 AM What a gross lie to say that I hate Jews.Totally untrue.The trouble with you zionists is that you do not recognise the rights of the Palestinian people to human or civil or national rights.Anyone who speaks up for them including Jews across the world are attacked and insulted by being called anti semitic or self hating or racist. There are indeed racists and anti semites out there and the far right parties in Britain and Europe are full of them. However,Israel is a racist,militarised and vicious state where the Palestinian people ,christian and moslem and indeed secular, are oppressed ,denied civil and human rights,beaten, shot and imprisoned often without trial. Their homes and land are being stolen and the Palestinian children half starved and terrorised. These are the facts which you zionists choose to ignore cover up or whitewash. hugo hugo |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: Bunnahabhain Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:56 PM Hugo, is it possible to diasagree with you, without being a zionist? Every time someone says something you don't like, you call them a Zionist, stick your fingers in your ears, and sing 'La La La La La', or the forum equivelent thereof. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 04 Oct 06 - 10:43 AM "The trouble with you zionists is that you do not recognise the rights of the Palestinian people to human or civil or national rights" Since I DO recognize the rights of the Palestinian people to human, civli, and national rights ( having NEVER denied them the right to move to Jordan, the Mandate Palestine Arab Homeland, as opposed to so many Arab nations that HAVE restricted Jewish immigration to Israel) YOU have defined me as a non-zionist. Would you care to present any facts in support of your statement "The trouble with you zionists is that you do not recognise the rights of the Palestinian people to human or civil or national rights"? Youy declare that to be a fact, but supply no factual basis for others to judge. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 04 Oct 06 - 11:51 AM Sorry. You stated "However,Israel is a racist,militarised and vicious state where the Palestinian people ,christian and moslem and indeed secular, are oppressed ,denied civil and human rights,beaten, shot and imprisoned often without trial. Their homes and land are being stolen and the Palestinian children half starved and terrorised." as a fact: the other was merely your opinion, I guess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:13 PM Abbas insists on honoring deals with Israel Updated 10/4/2006 11:56 AM ET RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday said any new Palestinian government must honor signed agreements with Israel. Abbas laid down the demand shortly after saying that his efforts to reach a power-sharing agreement with the Islamic militant group Hamas have broken down. Hamas has rejected key international demands, including respecting past deals between Israel and the Palestinians. Abbas, speaking alongside visiting Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said there is "no indication" of a new dialogue with Hamas. Rice on Wednesday called on Islamic militants to cooperate with Abbas and said the Hamas government cannot govern in the region. But Abbas said his agreement with the ruling Hamas militant group on forming a coalition government was off. "There is no dialogue now," Abbas said at a news conference with Bahraini Foreign Minister Sheikh Khalid Bin Ahmed Al-Khalifa. A preliminary coalition agreement between Abbas' Fatah Party and Hamas, announced Sept. 11, "is over now, and we have to start from square one," he said, but he did not rule out the renewal of talks at a later date. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-10-04-rice-hamas_x.htm |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:23 PM Recognizing Bearded Bruce is NOT too much to ask! But reading all his sonnets is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: beardedbruce Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:26 PM "But reading all his sonnets is. " I would agree with that, but have I asked THAT of you? Of the 1063, I bet I have not even offered you 400 of them... But as long as you ARE asking for more sonnets.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:27 PM Don't you dare! ;-) I won't read them if you do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: GUEST,mg Date: 04 Oct 06 - 04:26 PM It is too much to ask any country to recognize any country without definite borders and without definite water treaties guaranteeing the security of the water system. The Palestinians have to give up a lot of their hopes to get their houses and lands back. I heard one prominent spokeswoman say this is more important to them than an actual Palestinian state...but at least stop the expansion and settlements. Find another satellite space or several throughout the world where Jewish people can establish communities, (same with Palestinians who must emigrate and I believe have exerted great pressure on each other not to) and keep Israel, and keep Palestine, as more like virtual homelands, places of historical and religious and family signfiicance that people can visit and live and prosper elsewhere. That is how I have to see Ireland. I can't have it even though my ancestors, my fairly recent ancestors, were forced away. But I can visit it. I can visit South Boston. I can visit New York City where there are enclaves. That is about the best I can do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: GUEST,lox Date: 04 Oct 06 - 05:38 PM Hi mom |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: GUEST,lox Date: 04 Oct 06 - 05:41 PM Our christ was a jew |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Oct 06 - 05:43 PM Christ WAS a Jew. Sounds like someone out there has a martyrdom complex to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: (recognizing Israel) too much to ask? From: GUEST,Arnie Date: 05 Oct 06 - 09:21 AM mg "Keep Israel and Palestine as virtual homelands"? You've gotta be kidding. This is the real world, not some virtual concept. Israel is a real vibrant country, and Palestine could be too. |
