Mr Bush's international influence

Subject: Mr Bush's international influence
From: number 6
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 11:40 AM

Rather than straying away from the topic Skarpi's thread ... this thread is an answer to those who feel the world (us Canadians included) bash too much on Mr. Bush's influence in other countries affairs.

Yes we Canadians did vote Harper in (well, not me personally). It is without a doubt Mr. Bush's international influence is felt in his association with our Prime Minister ... the Bush regime does have an interest in our country and will use all possible means ($$) to align Mr. Harper into his court. It is known he was never pleased by our previous PM/Government and the fact they spoke their mind and stood up as much as they could to Bush.

Immediately after Harper was voted in ... Canadian military contracts were being drafted up with U.S. consortioms. The softwood paper deal was a sell out to U.S. pressure. Harper meekly conceeds to the border 'passport' policy. Just a few examples here.

Nothing personal to our American friends ... but we are not too happy with Bush and his influence, just as my American friends are not too pleased with his manipulations within their own country.

sIx

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Scoville
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 11:45 AM

My die-hard right-wing uncle (well, one of them) called this weekend to say he'd finally seen the light and would not be voting Republican this time around. My father practically danced.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:06 PM

Hey, I was just in Ontario - what's with the OPP wearing the state trooper hats? Creeps me out. The ol' man, who ain't exactly a flaming lefty, muttered, "The bad part is, they're starting to think like them, too".

It may be a stretch, but I don't think it's completely off-topic.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: number 6
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:15 PM

Here's why the OPP are wearing those smokey hats ... back in the 1990's an OPP officer developed skin cancer in the back of his neck ... he subsequently won a legal matter over the fact that the hat's they were issue were not effective ... so the OPP were from that point on issued wide brimmed hats .... I should add those hats are traditional with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and up until the late 1960's that style of hat was the traditional hat of the Boy Scouts of Canada.

So .. we can't bash Bush for influencing the OPP on the style of hat they are issued.

sIx

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Mooh
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:17 PM

State trooper hats? Ever seen the Mounties? For that matter the Boy Scouts going back generations?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:21 PM

Mr Bush's international influence? Doing more to foster terrorism. than Bin Laden could ever have done on his own.

All around the world I am teaching my lesson,
All around the world they have learnt so much from me,
And if anyone should ask them just what it is that they have learnt
It's all kind of reasons to hate the ones like me.

Bush and Bin could sing it in chorus, because it's true for both of them.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: number 6
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:22 PM

Actually the Yanks can probably bash us Canadians for those hats being issued to State Troopers and Marine Boot camp sargeants.

I dunno ... were the Mounties not the first to even were that syle of hat?

sIx

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Mooh
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:26 PM

Lord Baden Powell is often pictured in one...Mooh.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: number 6
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:31 PM

If I remeber correctly Mooh (from my old Scout days) ... wasn't he influenced by the Mountie hat?

I should also mention that Harper (the toadie) was voted in by the Canadian electorate (but he has a minority gov't) ... may Canadians were swayed into voting for Harper because of the Liberal party scandals ... they had no other choice ... and I bet my booty there was a lot of Bush influences in picking thatup on the radar which resulted in some peddling some big $$ to to the Harper campaign.

sIx

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 12:38 PM

NB: It ain't just Bush, folks. He's just the front man for a sizeable organization. If he were gone tomorrow, things wouldn't change one whit.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 02:55 PM

George W. Bush has achieved more than anyone else in history in terms of uniting about three quarters of the world........















.........in an absolute hatred of everything he stands for!

Don T.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:13 PM

Hey, you don't have to tell me about Boy Scouts and Mounties - but those OPP officers don't look like either - thing is, they're wearing dark-coloured hats and uniforms that look just like what the state troopers wear - and for that matter, when was the last time you got pulled over by a Mountie wearing a genuine Mountie hat? I think the last time it happened to me, he was also riding a horse.   Or helped across a busy street by a Boy Scout wearing a real Boy Scout hat? In my case, he was pushing my baby carriage.

So no one else is bugged by the OPP look? I'm going to go away and sulk.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: number 6
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 03:57 PM

Yeah, I see your point memy ... and your father was quite right ... "we are starting to look like them".

Chalk up another culture swept away by the great wave of Americization.

I didn't vote for this ... maybe some of us did?


sIx

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Amos
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 04:16 PM

GWB is a fraud, a loony, a shallow and deluded, hollow front of an empty man with no moral fiber, no heart worth mentioning, no brains and no courage except for the thin imitation found in second-hand stubbornness, not the genuine article at all. He is worse than the scarecrow with no Dorothy, Lion, Tin Man or little dog to back him. He is a waste of breath, a nefarious parody of a man, a putrid scumgullion, a mold-spore on the body politic, unworthy of the title of American.

Or so I am told. I am still thinking on it, myself.


A

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:00 PM

Come on Amos, get down off the fence and say what you mean....LOL.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:19 PM

You are so right, Greg. Bush is merely the false face that has temporarily been stuck on the great PNAC death-dealing machine. They'll have another after him, and another, and another...

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:29 PM

Don't go comparing Bush to that admirable charcater the Scarecrow, Amos. The Wicked Witch of the West, well maybe. (And he wouldn't stand up to well in that comparison either - she was quite impressive in her way when she was Prime Minister.)

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:38 PM

He always looks to me like a man who is way out of his depth, and hoping desperately that no one will notice.

That's not the case with Cheney, Rumsfeld, or the other key scoundrels in that cabal. They know exactly what they're doing.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: number 6
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:02 PM

I agree LH ... Cheney, Rumsfield and I throw in Rove and even mention Wolfowitz as the key players of scoundrels in the cabal (good word for the regime) ... yes, they do know exactly what they're doing ... especially in world politics.

sIx

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:14 PM

sIx, my point is that you need to quit blaming everything on "America". The Canadians are being swept away because they choose to be swept away. Same with the Brits. They complain about the overly commercial, the MacDonald's effect and all that. But none of that would happen if the British people didn't want it to happen. In the thread that spawned this one, you said "The problem with Canada is that Bush has taken over our own back yard ... now that he has P.M. Harper setup as his northern toadie". I pointed out there, as here, that the PM of Canada is the result of your political system, and the votes of your people. Canadians, whom I have great respect for, are quick to point out that they are not just a US clone. In fact they react indignantly (righteously so, IMO) when anyone suggests such a thing. So to suggest that somehow this PM was put in place by GWB seems to fly in the face of those arguments. Can't have it both ways, my friend.

I am on record over at least the last three years in this forum as saying that I believe GWB is the most dangerous President we have ever had. I believe that more now than when I first said it. We will be years recovering from the damage he has done to our diplomatic relations. We will be in danger from the terrorists he has spawned with his foolish war predicated on false pretenses. Our civil liberties, the very thing that made much of the world want to emulate us and duplicate in their own societies, have been decimated. His recent actions with regard to the Geneva Conventions will open the door to extremist nations interpreting those same conventions according to their own standards, as opposed to internationally accepted standards, putting our young warriors at even greater risk. As citizens of the US of A, we need to fight to change our leadership now and in two years so we can get on with the business of restoring and repairing our reputation in the community of nations.

I suggest to my northern friends, and my European cousins, that you quit obsessing and blaming what is wrong in your countries on us. Get on with the business of electing officials that will not support the likes of GWB and the right wing supporters of his policies. The American electorate will listen to the criticism from those that have historically been our allies. But not if it is couched in language that continually lays all the woes of the world on "Americanization". It simply isn't true, and ignores all that has been great and good about this country.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: number 6
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:36 PM

Mick ... I agree with you (somewhat) with what you are saying ... and you say it very well. I do blame our Prime Minister in getting swept away with Bush's (when I say Bush I mean the cabal) rhetoric and political bullying. Maybe I'm wrong, but there has been noticible here in Canada under Harper with political leanings to the U.S. ... more so than ever before. Harper 's words are becoming more like the rhetoric we have been hearing south of our border .... yes, he was voted in ... as I mentioned in a earlier post this was mainly due to the corruption scandals with the then liberal government .... I'm sure, Harper would not have gotten the votes if we knew just how much he was putting us under the Bush umbrella. If he hadn't been voted in we would not be so involved in front line combat in Afghanistan (debatable to a degree), we would have been sold off with the softwood lumber deal, the passport issue wouldn't have been put through with some sort of strong protest from our government, the gay marriage issue would not be back in pariliament with question.

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm certianly willing to listen to your side of the debate, but I do feel the Bush cabal is manipulating as much as possible international governments, albeit it with power, $$,or outright threats. Yes he has been lying to his own people, sinking his own nation to such low depts as never been seen by any previous president. If he has so much contempt for his own citizens, what is stopping him form manipulating other countries.

As to culture ... I certainly do not blame the U.S. on this ... that is what we are buying into ... can't argue that at all.

sIx

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: GUEST,Bee
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 11:25 PM

I suspect Harper is a man starstruck by power, wherever he sees it. Bush represents a huge world power, is close by, deigns to speak with Harper from time to time. One can hardly blame the American gov't for taking advantage of Young Stevie, leader of a resource rich country whose people are not actually shooting visiting Americans.

But please, fellow Canadians, next election, out with the lot of 'em.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: number 6
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 11:56 PM

Harper is a Bush wannabee .... kind of late in the game with signing onto the Bush cabal ... and I guess Bush will seek out and sign anyone he can get these days.

Regardless ... we up here will work on getting rid of our current Stevie government, and I know you guys have your hands full down there with GWB and are working on dumping him. Once we have completed the task, then maybe then we can work together in providing a saner world ... and bring back the trust we had previously ... being able to cross our borders without having to show 'our papers'.

sIx

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:29 AM

Amos- you are a bit to gental in reguards to your opinion of that worm sucking, grave slivering piece of slime snorting swamp-snot.

Well I'd agree with you Mick but it is also true that this (Cabal is also a bit too gental) Cartal will seek to influence any nation that it can. Through it's own use of terror tactics, bullying, economic pressure, back room buy outs, illegal leveraging, secret overthrough attemts, assination & out right invasion. What's a little influence pedaling among friends like Canada, the UK & Austrialia. Hell, we even used politcial persuasion with the tiny island empire of Tonga
to get them as an allied buddy in our waging of an illegal war, "No Nation To Small" & No Island Left Behind" are our mottos. It's true that other nations are responsible for their own actions but there is something to the truth of the US & it's responsiblity for using it's weight to acerbate the situation. We will exploite a weakness if possible maybe "once in a very blue moon" or so.

Barry

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 09:05 AM

none of that would happen if the British people didn't want it to happen.

Right you are- just like the U.S. wouldn't have President Bush unless the American People wanted it to happen.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 09:16 AM

What would it take to show George Bush to have some kind of courage.

cut and run...jeez I remember 9-11. He didn't go to Washington. HE fled to an underground bunker in Nebraska!

But suppose he commits some small act of bravery, what would it be.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 09:53 AM

And your point is what, greg? I think you don't really understand what I am saying here. We are in the midst of the debate on the future of Bush policies. We will have a referendum on them in 5 weeks. It isn't the Yanks who post what is wrong with Great Britain or Canada on a very regular basis. In fact if they do, they get accused of "ugly American" sentiments. But the reverse is not true. I am saying that there is plenty of evidence that your own people seem to be accepting, in fact seeking, Americanization of your culture. I think that borders on criminal. The first step in resolving problems, lies in accepting that you have a problem. Step II could be said to quit blaming it on others. Were one to try and apply that on a international political scale, I would say quit wasting your time telling us what is wrong with us and accept that you have much work to do yourselves. We will continue the struggle here, and hopefully will damage this man's ability to continue his dangerous policies. But you don't have the high ground on this issue. No one in the States voted for the current Canadian administration. No one in the States has anything to do with Great Britain's domestic policies.

One of the things that this old organizer has seen in his years in the struggle, is a perceptual war. Monied interests around the globe have convinced the average person that they are without power, that somehow the cabals have all the power. That monied interests control all. The history of the world suggests otherwise. Historically, when the power slants to0 heavily in the favor of a few people, the people demonstrated what true power is. It isn't money, it isn't organizations. Our power lies in the street, among the people. Revolution need not be violent, but it must be concerted. Our work lies in reaching out and joining with like minded people on a very few basic issues. If we require purity on a whole litany of issues, then we will never form the consensual movement required. But basic human rights, basic economic equity, respectful diplomatic policy, anti war sentiment, these are the things we can tap into in our respective countries.

Doesn't make much sense, when the issues/consequences are so grave to waste much time finger pointing, folks. Remove the 2x4 in your own eye. We will take care of the mote in ours.

Mick

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: GUEST,PeteBoom at work
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 11:39 AM

A couple of Sunday's ago, I was with the pipe band standing in formation on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, with other police and military pipe bands for the Police Officers Memorial. We were there with the various detachments, honour guards, etc., from units across Canada.

A couple of points: First, there are myriad head dress (coverings) used by police and peace officers across Canada - must have been a couple dozen varieties of hats, etc., The ever so flat campaign style hat was worn by Mounties and various Provincial Police units. Others wore anything, and everything, that might be imagined.   

Second, our purpose in being there was to commemorate those officers who were killed in the line of duty. (A senior constable from Windsor was killed in May, which is why we were there.) Among those remembered were two members of the Military Police killed in Afganistan. During this solemn ceremony, whenever one of the political types began droning on, there was more than one in the ranks who'd mutter something that would seem, well, "un-Canadian" to some. One of our drum majors, a retired police dective and former senior warrant officer, said very quietly something like "of course he's an *idiot* (find the word substitution) but the TV cameras are on us..."

I have a feeling that come the next election, Harper and his crew will be out the door.

Just as the "mandate" will be revoked in a month or so in the States, where I live.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 12:31 PM

Mick of course you are right regarding the power of the people.
Indeed the power corporate elite know this too.
The long standing agenda has been to progressively limit college education to the rich.
A dumbing down of the populace by entertainment and TV.
Establish a perpetual war against any counter culture with a war on drug users.
New weapons to disuade protestors.
Economicly erode the middle class.
Eliminate unions and collective bargaining.
Fear.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 12:33 PM

Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Garrison Keillor, Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky... We know there's another side to America from Bush, Mick, and we respect and love it.

One of the reasons for detesting what Bush stands for is because he threatens to bring the America we love into contempt.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: number 6
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:42 PM

Good post McGrath. So true.

sIx

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 02:42 PM

... there is plenty of evidence that your own people seem to be accepting, in fact seeking, Americanization of your culture.

My own people, Mick? Fascinating.

I'm an American Citizen & I live in the U.S. Have done for 60 years.

Point YOU'RE missing is that what the U.S "moneyed interests" do abroad and the policies the U.S. government inflicts upon the rest of the world have an effect many times greater than anything the other way 'round. Also that the "moneyed interests" comprise & control the U.S. government. The majority of other countries aren't seeking "Americanization" at all- quite the opposite

Also, your "come the revolution" and "take it to the street" rhetoric particularly vis a vis in the USA is amusingly naive. Went thru that phase in the 1960's, no? & where are we now?

Remove the 2x4 in your own eye. Will do, if you'll pull your finger out of your arse.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:29 PM

Sorry Greg, thought you were a Brit. Kiss my ass on the rest. I have been in the streets the whole of the 40 years since the 60's. Where we are is a bunch of folks, like you I would guess, sold out the ideals in order to take the soup. Don't talk to me about naieve, ace, I have done my time in the trenches and will continue to. Those words, to you, are just rhetoric. I believe we are in the opening stages of a revolution now. But my definition of the word is more than just rhetoric. I think the middle of this country is waking up to the fact that they have been duped. I think they see the widening rift between the haves and the have nots. I think they are tired of chicken hawks sending their children to die based on lies. I think they are tired of seeing their jobs leave, and their childrens hopes for a brighter future sold off for investment opportunities in other countries. I think they will revolt at the ballot box, if only someone will inspire them with good reasons to do so.

You could see that my comments were directed to my British and Canadian friends, and that I had mistaken you for one of them. But you still decided to get your jollies pointing out my error in a cocky way. So kiss my ass, wise guy. I'll move the finger so you can do so.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 09:18 PM

You could see that my comments were directed to my British and Canadian friends

No, Mick- your comments were directed at me. By name. Your mistake.
Now YOU are calling ME cocky? Suggest you re-read your post.

Where we are is a bunch of folks, like you I would guess sold out the ideals in order to take the soup.

Sorry, "Ace", but you guess wrong. As you did when you guessed I was
Britsh. [NB: British, not a "Brit", Paddy]

Those words, to you, are just rhetoric.

Another guess, and, once again, wrong. You don't know jack about me, "Ace", & you might as well admit it.

I believe we are in the opening stages of a revolution now...

Time will tell, "Ace", time will tell. I hope you're not equating a Democrat victory at the polls with a "revolution"- that would indeed be naive. Just because they are a bit less crooked and venal abd a bit more progressive than the Republicans that hardly constitutes a "revolution".

)Plus, a little less guessing & your bombast might come across a bit less overbearingly self-satisfied & smug.

So you may kiss my ass as well.

All best, Greg

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 04:00 PM

Excellent article HERE on WHY it is important that we have a massive turnout at the polls this election.

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 04:24 PM

". . . worm sucking, grave slivering piece of slime snorting swamp-snot."

I just spotted that. Barry, you say you're not very fond of Bush? My Gawd, you're a bleedin' poet!

(I just scribbled that in my notebook. Bloody marvelous!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Mr Bush's international influence
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 06:32 PM

"Detention Centers

    Plus, there was that curious development in January when the Army Corps of Engineers awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root a $385 million contract to construct detention centers somewhere in the United States, to deal with "an emergency influx of immigrants into the US, or to support the rapid development of new programs," KBR said. [Market Watch, Jan. 26, 2006]"