white noise machines - any experience?

Subject: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 02:30 PM

My sister has a vexing problem. She tells me that the gov't has made a rule that trains must blow their whistles two longs and a short for every crossing. She lives in Denver, and trains cross streets several times in her neighborhood. Several trains blowing 2.5 times over several crossings per night is disturbing her sleep something fierce.

We thought of earplugs and a white noise machine. Do white noise machines work? Do they have any downside? What does anybody know?

(I looked for ratings, couldn't find any.)

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 02:30 PM

Oops - this should be below the line.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 02:37 PM

Technically, it's music, leeneia, so it should stay here!

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,Cattail (No cookie)
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 03:15 PM

If you, or someone you know, has cooledit on their computer you can
make a cd of white noise to try it out. You would have to
copy / paste a number of times to do this but it isn't hard to do.

Hope this helps

Cattail !

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 04:15 PM

Having been raised a block from a fairly active train crossing, I can offer the "consolation" that once the presence of the whistles is accepted as normal one virtually ceases to hear them, usually within a fairly short time. In that era, it bothered me a lot more on camping trips because the d***d bullfrogs and crickets wouldn't shut up.

Working up a favorite dream that incorporates train whistles as a "pleasant event" was suggested by one consultant when a similar complaint was voiced in Boston about the "El" some years ago. I can't offer an opinion on how well that works, but perhaps it might be what I did.

As long as one "looks for remedies" the trains will continue to be a sleep interruptor. Accepting that they're part of the environ usually works fairly quickly, if one can make that adjustment.

John

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 04:17 PM

On further reflection, if discussion of 4'33" is valid here, white noise is more so!

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: Wesley S
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 04:39 PM

Hudmidifiers work at our house.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 04:50 PM

When I was at the University of Minnesota, back in the pleistocene era or thereabouts, I roomed on the third floor of an old house right on the streetcar line. Streetcars running by in one direction were going downhhill, and as they applied their brakes they not only produced a very loud grinding noise but they shook the whole house. This occurred perhaps twice an hour, including all night.

After I'd lived there about a month I never heard or felt the vibration, and it didn't bother my sleep in the slightest.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 10:12 PM

From personal experience, living close to noise that regularly occurs will eventually result in it being ignored. For MOST people, this is BEFORE you froth at the mouth and shoot everybody in sight, but....

BTW, when I go up to Toowoomba, I stay at a friend's place which is near the main highway thru the town. There are a lot of 'semis' going thru of course, and 'in the still of the night' (sorry!), their brake drums can produce a most haunting musical howling sound.

As for 'white noise', back in the 60s, my dentist got a great new gadget that allowed you fiddle with a volume control that altered the level of white noise fed to your ears, allegedly to help you ignore pain. Didn't seem to do much for me...

I'd recommend trying the use of Valerian before bed. DO NOT MIX WITH BOOZE - that puts me down like a poleaxed hobbit!

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,TJ
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 10:21 PM

Sometimes my downstairs neighbor's stereo is audible in my bedroom at night when I'm going to sleep. I just turn on a window fan -- in cold weather, one sitting on the floor rather than in the window! -- and that whoosh nicely masks the unwanted music.

But as for the trains, I agree with JohnInKansas that after a while your sister probably won't notice them. I've lived for twenty years now about a hundred feet from an active commuter train line and the only time I notice the trains is if one happens to be going by when I'm out in the parking lot. Otherwise my brain just tunes it out.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:07 AM

white noise machines are very difficult to keep clean.

black ones are more practical.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:30 AM

Another thing to try is noise cancellation technology, like the noise cancelling headphones they sell to airplane travellers.

The train runs near our house and we've long since accepted it. I like the sound of the whistles after midnight when it's quiet. Some nights I sleep right through them, some nights I lay awake in the bed listening for them, and some nights I play along with them, G#minor7th.
- Phil

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:06 AM

I sleep MUCH better if the fan is on in our bedroom---even in the middle of winter and it's not pointing at us. It's the sound of the fan of the fan that comforts and covers up other sounds.

It's sort of like white noise me thinks.

Art

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:30 AM

Stricly apeaking

White noise is a random signal (or process) with a flat power spectral density. In other words, the signal's power spectral density has equal power in any band, at any centre frequency, having a given bandwidth. White noise is considered analogous to white light which contains all frequencies.

An infinite-bandwidth white noise signal is purely a theoretical construct. By having power at all frequencies, the total power of such a signal is infinite. In practice, a signal can be "white" with a flat spectrum over a defined frequency band.

In practice most sources are 'coloured', not 'white'.... :-)


Practical uses of White Noise MP3s for Tinnitus Treatment, Masking and Tinnitus Cure

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 07:33 AM

white noise does not work on trains....try the device mentioned above in airplanes..record the noise of the train going past, loop it using a sample editor, burn it to cd and play it back at the same volume of the train when it goes past.[ spot the obvious gaping plot hole]
The two waveforms being identical [ish] will, by the laws of nature and sound waves, cancel each other out, therby producing near silence at that specific frequency/s....it works on planes because the cabin and cockpit generate a steady and consistent volume and frequency of sound due to air pressure devices/ air con etc, therefore white noise which is very similar in frequecy , played back thru speakers will cancel the sound to a signficant degree.....in aircraft, the sound emitted by the cabin is recorded and replyed back out in headphones every 12seconds so the pitch and volume are digitally accurate and in real time..so it is much easier to replicate the waveform you want to cancel out.

I tried recording my wife at full argument pitch and played a looped sample back and it only made things worse, so you have to bear this in mind when applying the technique to non airborne situations....

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:00 AM

"white noise does not work on trains....try the device mentioned above in airplanes..record the noise of the train going past, loop it using a sample editor, burn it to cd and play it back at the same volume of the train when it goes past"

This is not 'white noise'. And this trick won't work anyway.

'Sound cancelling' techniques are not white noise.

"white noise which is very similar in frequency , played back thru speakers will cancel the sound to a significant degree"

No it won't- it will MASK the noise, NOT CANCEL it.

The 'white noise' trick works by raising the minimum ambient noise level, so that external noise is swamped in the 'floor' level.

'Sound cancelling' works by taking the original waveform and playing it back 180 degrees out of phase - there will be a minimum delay caused by the recording electronics, but the effect is minimal, and the cancellation works to an acceptable degree.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:00 AM

There's been this many posts without a comment about any particularly loathed musical instruments, I am impressed.

You do just tune out the noise after a while. For me, it's the fire engines on the way to the student accomodation just down the road. There's always two, and another a minute later, but I don't hear them...

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:02 AM

I was tempted to add 'empty vessels make most noise', but I didn't.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:51 AM

White noise machines were once the trendy toy to have, in some quarters. They never caught on very well because people used a cheap substitute. Tune a radio to an enpty band (no station) and set the volume to suit.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:48 PM

and I always thought that "White Noise" was another name for a bluegrass band...

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:00 PM

i find my tinnitus is the most cost effective way of masking distracting
external environmental noise pollution..

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:55 PM

mack/misophist -

Tuning an FM radio to an empty channel doesn't seem to produce much noise, at least with my radio in my area, and there's no such thing as an empty channel on the AM band, because there are so many little punk stations that bleed all over each other that you've always got "voices" in it.

My TV, however, produces a really great bit of static - pseudo white noise - when the local station goes off the air.

Of course, if one has cable they'd likely have to unhook the feed to find a blank spot.

John

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: Becca72
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM

I have lived next to train tracks in the past, and you do get used to the noise fairly quickly.

That said, I have a part time job as a transcriptionist for a local hospital and our department was recently moved into the same building with the schedulers...who are on the phone all day long. It gets quite distracting to hear about Mrs So-and-so's MRI appointment while you're trying to type up a report. So the hospital purchased white noise machines and the problem has virtually disappeared....but they really do just sound like a fan so you may want to save the expense and just use one of those instead.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 06:02 PM

Thanks, everybody, and especially Becca, who actually had an experience to describe.
--------

"I tried recording my wife at full argument pitch and played a looped sample back and it only made things worse..."

You didn't apply the right methodology. This is what you need to do:

Wife: You never take out the garbage!
You:   The garbage has been taken out.

Wife: Our lawn is a ragged mess!
You:   I just mowed it.

See what I mean?
-----------

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:08 PM

You mean LIE?!!!

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:56 AM

You're funny!

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:55 AM

The volume level of the white noise must be higher than the volume of the sound being masked. If the train is loud this would sound like Niagara Falls from the bottom. White noise works well for masking low level conversations .
In the telephone industry in analoge days, white noise was intentionally generated on circuits to mask crosstalk. People would put up with a swishing sound but they would get upset hearing conversation ,because they would deduct that others could hear them as well.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 01:19 PM

If you can get hold of a white noise generator try sticking the output through a wah-wah pedal to create a great wind machine. You'll be able to generate anything from a light breeze to a full storm

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 06:24 AM

According to those in charge of one office where I worked, directing intense white noise against the windows of your place of business will prevent anyone outside from directing their laser interferometer at your windows and thereby picking up your conversations on the inside by detecting the acoustically induced motions of the glass.

(At "anti-industrial-espionage strength" it can also give you an intense and persistent headache if your desk is too near a window.)

John

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 08:49 AM

"wah-wah pedal"

Actually that is a "modulated noise processor"... :-)

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 11:16 AM

Okayeee...

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: Stu
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 11:34 AM

Try a shakey egg.

We have two at our session and they cancel out any other sound-producing source in the room and render it flat and lifeless.

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 11:43 PM

I thought that's what non-stop badly played bodhrans were for...

Subject: RE: white noise machines - any experience?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 03:25 AM

Use a fan. Add a filter (cheap one buck type) to the back and catch the dust bunnys. Add foam throw-away, ear-plugs (five bucks for a gross.)

On a cheap CD player add a continuous, random mix, classical collection of Lulliby tunes.

If awakened in the night, chew 50mg asprin with 200mg calcium, mag, zinc mix and follow with a warm milk chaser.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle