BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Barry Finn
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 05:05 PM

Hi Liz
A love it or leave it policy helps no one. If she's adopting in a foriegn nation then by the law of that nation it's their child & Britain has no say in the matter weither they choose to live there our just pass through. Britain only has a say within it's own jurisdiction, or at least I would believe it to be so. Just like if you had an adopted child & chose to move here, you would not be told that because our laws differ that you can't say your adopted kid is yours & has to 1st meet our rules.

Hi Lox
I see no reason to look at your tone or question it, I have no doubt that we only have a diffenece in opinions & that's all.
There is no history on the child, she was put on the doorstep of an adoption agency. I believe it was quick because of overcrowding as it is through out Africa & other 3rd world nations. My friends are not well to do by anyone's standards unless you're comparing them to 3rd world living conditions. I don't know how they'd compare to Madonna in the home but I'm sure that Madonna & Guy are capable of offering a loving home & environment as my friends are & that's what matters. The child that Madonna & Guy adopted had a parent but for some reason the parent choose to give it up & place it in an orphanage & giving the father a little finincial assistence would not be appropriate, after all they're there to adopt not give out aid. That's what orphanages do, they try to place parentless(& it seems that this kid is parentless) kids in a home & with parents that will offer a healthy, stable, loving & caring home. The father's relationship is not the priority here neither is the child's past environment. As to attachment and abandonment issues hopefully as in all cases of adoption, that issue will hopefully come to pass. When the father placed the child with the agency that was his choice & at that point the child was cut loose, it was displaced & abandoned. Children with good homes & good parents can have these issues too but if the parents & child can bond those issues can be overcome. I am quite familiar with this, for the past 25 yrs that's what my wife has been involved with, the care & education of poor & troubled children has been her life.

It was also mentioned above about the child's race as being a concern. I will not even discuss that topic.
   
As to the Aids & Malawi. It's not Malawi it's a national, continental & international problem with AIDS/HIV. These diseases are destroying the African continent. One of the by-products of this is the massive amounts of orphan children left to be cared for by grandmothers, the government agencies, health organizations & other charities. They are all overwhelmed & can't keep up, neither can many of the parents. If there's complaining to do it should be directed towards other nations & governments to kick in their fair share & to do more to aid these stricken nations & to adopt some friendlier policies that would add to their relief. Directing complaints at high profile figures that'll sell the news but it's scapegoating & does nothing to help out the situation. The news should be ashamed for covering this story instead of covering the tragedy of it all instead. They should be reporting about other high profile folks that are doing something & not folks that are rying to adopt. For some reason the news media lately has got it in their collective minds that the public really gives a hoot as to who's having who's baby. They should be reporting on Bill Clinton's lifetime commitment & Bono's commitment to helping out with this tragedy. I hear every day about the tragedy of the war but nothing about AIDS/HIV which is killing more per week on the African continent than the war has sense it's start.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 05:30 PM

Interesteing thing now is that the boy's father has decided to speak out and say he never realised madonna was going to become the child's 'mother'.

According to him he just thought she would bring the child up the same as he would have been brought up in the orphanage and then return home to his family once he was an adult.

Now either he genuinely didn't realise the orphanage was going to try and rehome the child or he has been advised to rethink his position for financial reasons.

Is it likely a boy brought up in the public school system will want to go and live in a third world country as a third world family member when he has graduated from university?

I think not, but he would maybe be in a position to help them enormously. An interesting twist.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 05:55 PM

Britain only has a say within it's own jurisdiction, or at least I would believe it to be so. Just like if you had an adopted child & chose to move here, you would not be told that because our laws differ that you can't say your adopted kid is yours & has to 1st meet our rules.


BUT SHE IS LIVING IN BRITAIN AT THIS VERY MOMENT!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Lox
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 07:13 PM

Barry,

I'm glad there's no ill feeling there, I was afraid I'd touched a nerve and felt you had something important to offer.

You said:

"My friends are not well to do by anyone's standards unless you're comparing them to 3rd world living conditions."

I had said:

"The fact that your friends were well to do by comparison with most vietnamese would have been a bonus"

Apart from that, you have answered my initial question more or less as I expected:

"There is no history on the child, she was put on the doorstep of an adoption agency"

That tells me that, for whatever reason, she had already had her relationship with her biological family severed.

If the guardian article that Kat linked us to is correct, then the young lad Madonna adopted did have a relationship with his father, who cycled 25 miles to spend time with him every weekend, being unable to give more due to his lack of income.

Presumably with a bit of support, the contact between them could have been increased if not made permanent.

Let us try to put his shoes on our feet for a minute (assuming he has any).

Single parents in the UK can leave their kids at a nursery or a childminder while they work, and it will be paid for by public funding.

On the way home from work they pick their child up, tell them they love them, give them a kiss and cuddle and take them home (!) where they feed them and put them to bed.

In countries like Malawi there are neither Nurseries nor is there such public funding.

Where does a single dad put his beby son while he works?

This guy has made hard choice after hard choice for his son.

And yet he has never given up maintaining contact with his son.

Imagine that life for a second, and then imagine that a very rich woman comes along and offers your child financial security and all that he could ever want materially.

But imagine that the price is that your child has to go away. Your precious weekends aren't going to happen any more.

Imagine the confusion and bewilderment for the child. He doesn't have much, but his dad, with whom he has a deep magical bond that no one alive can match, and whom no one alive can come close to in terms of love and reassurance given.

Suddenly that contact stops, and his world turns upside down.

The most valuable thing a child can have is the love and reassurance of its parents.

If that has gone, then the best alternative must of course be gratefully and speedily offered as appears to have been the case with your friends and more power to them for it.

But if there is something there worth saving, then it should be saved. It should not be severed unnecessarily. The damage is too great.

I am a single dad who lives in a country where there are nurseries, where there is public funding, and where if, as a single parent, I can't get work, the state will support me for as long as necessary to ensure my child can have a basic secure stable home.

My daughter is asleep upstairs as I write this. I've just been up to check on her because she yelled out in her sleep. She was fine.

Being able to do that is something that I am grateful for beyond words.

I wouldn't have the arrogance to claim that I have the remotest idea how hard life is for The childs father.

As tough as he must be to carry on, he must also grieve in his heart every time he leaves to cycle the 25 miles home again.

Sorry, but what a fucking hero.

He and his son deserve help. Of course they do. As long as the person helping actually is helping. The way to be sure is to ask "how can I help". Not to decide what type of help they think is right and just dive in with both wallets blazing.

Money can't buy you love or happiness, we all know that.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Lox
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 07:49 PM

PS

On the subject of international support for the state of Malawi in it's monumental task of trying to deal with the consequences of HIV/AIDS etc, I am with you all the way.

The newspapers should be covering these issues properly too. I agree on that point as well.

Madonna has kept the politics out of the story by keeping herself out of the politics. She titillates her audience with her daring from time to time, with a raise of an eyebrow and yet another inoccuous cliche about starving babies and aids, but never engages the issues in any real depth and certainly never says anything of any real controversy.

As a result the real arguments remain the preserve of nerds and smug politicians (politicians hate it when the issues are really discussed in any depth, that's why they eulogise in the same glib language as Madonna).

The tabloid press are suckers for a publicity stunt. They survive symbiotically with celebs who perform them in full knowledge of what they are doing and why. They won't always report it how it was intended to come across however, and I think they decided to knock Madonna for her actions because they decided that this stunt was too tasteless to be endorsed.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 08:16 PM

She has supported AIDS charities in the UK and Africa for at least the last ten years. And rather than giving them lip service she has contributed estimated millions.

She is setting up an orphanage in Malawi which will help feed, clothe and home up to 4000 orphans, most orphaned due to AIDS/HIV.

I have no doubt of her good intent and significant contribution to putting her money where it counts. If she were to stand at a conference and talk about the issues in depth she would be criticised for the way she spoke.

My only doubt in this whole situation is why she chose to adopt a baby with a living parent. But it says to me that she has all intention of maintaining links with his home country.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Lox
Date: 22 Oct 06 - 08:54 PM

GUEST

You're right, I'm being little hard on Madonna and she should be congratulated for the things you have listed above.

I do think though, that the kind of criticism you're talking about would be a nobler gauntlet for her to run, and risking her reputation by engaging more meaningfully and less glamorously in the debate would be to her credit.

The fact that she doesn't shows how much importance she places on her public image, which supports my view that a large part of her motivation has been in enhancing it.

Ironically, I think that whatever the papers said, people would respect her more and the depth of public feeling for her would be more enduring.

Madonna has millions, maybe Billions of fans worldwide. That's a lot of loyal receptive minds all open to her words and her wisdom. Imagine if she stopped talking to them about herself and kabbalah and started engaging them in things that matter.

All those shallow party heads turning round and having intelligent conversations in large numbers about things that need large numbers of people to talk about them if they are going to be changed.

The problem with pop stars is their egos. If instead of big dramatic once in a lifetime events like live 8, there was consistent highlighting of issues and HOW they might be dealt with and WHAT might be done by ordinary flks like you and me, people might once again feel enfranchised, involved, less marginalized, less apathetic and more inclined to vote and make their vote matter and to force their leaders to listen in other ways.

I hope you're right about the link being maintained - but every weekend? It'll be tough - and how long will it be maintained before it dwindles away?

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Barry Finn
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:20 AM

Hi Lox
If the father was under a different understanding, I'd say all bets are off. Of course.

Hi Liz
If she didn't apodt the child on UK soil the UK has no say about legal transactions in elsewhere. If the UK recognizes Malawi, how could they leagely do otherwise. Please explain if we're both on track here.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: skarpi
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:35 AM

Madonna , fít fíjú way to go .......... good looking woman
doing a great thing give a child a change to live.


All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 05:39 AM

Apparently there was another case of a woman called Madonna who brought up a baby that wasn't technically hers, but that was two milennia ago or so .........

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 07:19 AM

Barry - I was given to understand from various articles quoted above, that current Malawi law would not allow the child to be adopted outside the country, that prospective parents should live in Malawi for 18 months whilst the process is ongoing and that Madonna lives in Britain with a husband who is apparently not exactly 100% behind this adoption, just like the child's father seems to be now.

If another British citizen had wanted to adopt a child from Malawi, they would have had to abide by the local laws. Madonna has taken this boy home after something like 2 weeks.

If she really is the caring, loving parent she's made out to be, then surely she could support the child and his father whilst she's going through the correct legal process to adopt.


Skipjack - I think you'll find that THAT Madonna was actually the birth mother, and she had a fine support network!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Bagpuss
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 07:53 AM

I believe that in the uk, you have to be an approved adoptive parent even if the adoption was done abroad. I am not sure whether madonna has gone through this.

Also, i read over the weekend that the father, after initially being all for the adoption, has said that he didn't realise that it meant him giving up all parental rights, and basically not being the childs father any more. If he had known he said, he wouldn't have approved it.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 07:59 AM

lol

And the father, being omnipresent was always able to stick around despite his busy schedule everywhere else simultaneously, though it seems there may have been some concerns regarding abandonment when his son was on the cross.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 08:17 AM

presumably madonna's lawyers got in touch with the fathers lawyers so they could be satisfied that the document was fair and in line with his understanding.

Whats that?

he doesn't have a lawyer?

He's possibly illiterate (76% literacy in Malawian men) though more likely he is functionally illiterate?

And I challenge any non legally trained Brit or American with above average literacy to make head or tail of their tenancy agreement let alone adoption papers - and are they in english? and who acted as interpreter between him and Madonna? was there an interpreter at all?

"He knew what he was getting himself into" - oh really? (that comment is not attributed to anyone in particular but I believe represents a view that I have seen expressed on this thread and elsewhere. A view which I find is not only deeply unfair but also grossly irresponsible.)

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:44 AM

The father of the Malawi boy visited him every week in the orphage. Now, he has this to say:

Father of Madonna boy not aware of adoption

The father of the Malawian boy that singer Madonna took to the UK under a temporary custody order has said that he never intended for his son to be adopted, only raised on his behalf.

Yohane Banda told news agency Reuters that Madonna had asked to raise the 13-month-old boy on behalf of him.

"Had they told us that Madonna wanted to adopt my son and make him her own son, we would not have agreed to that," Banda said.

"It would have been better for him to continue staying at the orphanage because I see no reason why my child should be given away forever when I can feed him," he said.

"I cannot read and write so I relied on what the (government) officials told me that the papers said Madonna would look after the child the way the orphanage planned to educate him and then he comes back to me."

When asked if he had signed any agreements with the singer, Banda said: "I am still waiting to get my copies."

Explaining his decision to send baby David to an orphanage after his mother's death, he said: "We sent this child to an orphanage because at one month we could not look after him, we did not have a health centre nearby and the orphanage was the ideal place for him."

Banda said that he would wait until the papers, which are currently with government officials, were sent to him before deciding what action to take, after consulting family members.

Shambles, I do NOT argue as an anonymous guest. If you ever truly read my postings about anon. guests, you'd know that. But, that wouldn't serve your egenda, would it?

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 01:39 PM

Shambles, I do NOT argue as an anonymous guest. If you ever truly read my postings about anon. guests, you'd know that. But, that wouldn't serve your egenda, would it?

I made no such suggestion of course.

You will accept that although you are prepared to be known to operate as a 'moderator' and feel yourself now qualified to impose your judgement on your fellow posters - there are others who choose to do this anonymously - and are permitted to do this anonymously?

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:24 PM

Not going there, Shambles. You have hijacked enough threads with your persecution complex.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 05:46 PM

You have hijacked enough threads with your persecution complex.

I don't have a persecution complex - I am being persecuted.

Not too sure what hijacking a thread is (it does not appear for posters to be encouraged to ignore a threads subject with concerted efforts to place recipes, jokes and personal judgements in it) but is it really possible to hijack one's own thread?

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:48 AM

Liz if that is the case I have nothing to stand on so I bow my knee to you.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:35 AM

Madona may have to bring the kid back.
Rush Limbaugh said she could still probably adopt Barok Obama if nothing else works out.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Lox
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:07 AM

Barry,

I am sure Liz would agree that no knee bowing is necessary. Had you not raised the issues you had in the way you did, that area of discourse might not have been explored in the way it was.

Rigorous scrutiny is the key to effective debate and I for one applaud you for your honesty, clarity of thought and your ethics, which I believe remain unbowed.

Next time it will be the other way around, and we will both, again, have a little extra wisdom under our belts, and a litle extra value to our lives.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:06 PM

It is a tragedy unfolding. One would hope that in these adoptions people would make so sure there were no close relatives who would later claim the baby..this has happened before of course...mg

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Amergin
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:13 PM

Once the fad is over, Mdonna would be happy to return the kid to him...also that would serve her need to be in the public eye.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Becca72
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:25 PM

"I think it deeply offensive to our forum that some anonymous fellow poster (possibly kat herself) is permitted to now judge and silently delete, move, re-title my posts and those of others and provide no evidence or explanation for this imposed action - in the form of an editing comment." Cut from Shambles post.


Looks to me like you DID make that suggestion, Sham.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 07:43 PM

I disagree Lox... I'm all for a gentleman bending the knee now and then.... but in this case, no problem.

LTS










Actually... it's men who AREN'T gentlemen you have to watch out for when they bend the knee.....

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 11:59 PM

Thank you both.

I do here that Madonna will be on Oprah tomorrow the 25th but I don't remember the time. She will be interviewed by the bog O herself & she's doing this to explain her story.
At least we'll have one side of this without the media twist in it, maybe.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 03:55 AM

Madonna on Oprah wiht no media twist????///




























NNNAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Lox
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 09:52 AM

We don't get Oprah here in the uk - though I'm sure they'll feature some selected footage on the news.

Maybe it'll be on youtube.

Either way, I'll be curious to know what she has to say exactly.

I stand to be corrected, but I'll bet the focus of what Madonna has to say is about herself.

" ... I've really had an awakening ... you really learn about yourself ... etc ..."

And I doubt Oprah will ask anything too penetrating. It's not her job. She does hype for a living. She will pander to madonna's ego.

God I'm jealous - what a sad man I've become - I'm salivating at the thought.

I won't be able to participate in the debate - aaarrgh!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 10:21 AM

As a contrast a story was published in one of the UK sunday papers, I think the Mail, of a Malawi couple resident in Britain who are trying to adopt their neice, a malawi orphan both of whose parents died of Aids. They are faced with a wait of two years while the child is "cared" for by a grandmother who can do little else but feed the child as she has to spend most of her day working. The child is left sitting alone all day in her grandmother's yard.
Needless to say the couple, although by the account are hard working, do not have three million to give to the Malawi government.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 02:22 PM

I think rather than hurting this couple, Madonna's adoption will help them by pointing things like this out. Once the sun shines on problems, solutions can come forth. mg

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 02:37 PM

But will it help?

Call me an old sceptic if you like... (it's true after all)

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 03:06 PM

Well we were unaware of the problem before so of course the madonna case has helped. It has brought the problem to the public's attention.

Will it change anything remains to be seen, but there is zero chance of that happening without publicity.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Becca72
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 03:47 PM

I'm sorry if this comes out snobbish, but anyone who was unaware that Africa suffers from severe poverty and an AIDS crisis before Madonna tried to adopt this little boy has been living in a very deep hole for the last 20 years.

I would have a lot more respect for her if she just donated money to the country/village/family instead of taking this little boy away from his father. It may not be true, but it appears to the world like she's just jumping on the bandwagon of celebrity adoptions that are currently fashionable.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 04:13 PM

becca please see the post of 25/10/06 at 10.21am which will let you know the problem we were discussing. I don't think anyone has intimated madonna has brought the aids problem to the publics attention.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Becca72
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 05:03 PM

Guest 4:13, I had no intention of suggesting that Madonna shed light on the Aids crisis of Africa by adopting this boy. But it was mentioned above that she has made the world aware of the problems in Africa (poverty AND Aids) and I think that's giving her a bit more credit than she is due.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 05:55 PM

I can not see a post that states she 'made the world aware of the aids/poverty in Africa.' I would agree with you if there was one that it is a gross generalisation.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM

Becca
While the world may be aware of the poverty & the AIDS/HIV problem in Africa I don't think that the average American does know how bad the situation really is & I agree that Madonna's situation doesn't shed any more light on it either, regretfully. If you questioned the man, women or child on the street I think that they'd be shocked to find out that in Africa alone 20 million have died from AIDS/HIV & even more so that 40 million are now living with it. Further more I don't think they'd care all that much either. The same with the policies of their own government. If it does not apply to them directly & affect them in their day to day living then it's something that they'd simply rather not know about or at least not know the details of. Being an American I say this with a sore heart because but that is how I see it.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 06:42 PM

I didn't get to hear Madonna on Oprah but here's what went down. see: http://www2.oprah.com/index.jhtml

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Becca72
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 06:42 PM

GUEST 5:55PM:

"Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 03:06 PM

Well we were unaware of the problem before so of course the madonna case has helped. It has brought the problem to the public's attention.

Will it change anything remains to be seen, but there is zero chance of that happening without publicity."

Barry,
I guess maybe it's either my generation or my area (I believe it's more likely my generation) but the average American in my age bracket knows a lot more than you're given them credit for of the going's on in Africa. But we're also one of the first generations to have Aids be so prominent in our lives. I remember at 10 or 12 years old (early '80s) hearing about "safe sex" and the "Aids epidemic". Maybe that's the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 07:14 PM

Yes becca I thought that was the post you were referring to, as I said before please read the post it was in response to.

We were specifically discussing the plight of a UK couple who are experiencing problems re adoption. Which we are now aware of because of the madonna situation.

I would have been as surprised as you had someone attributed world enlightenment to madonna.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Becca72
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 07:21 PM

My apologies, GUEST. It was a rather ambiguous remark and I took it to mean they thought she enlightened the world on the plight of Africa as a whole.

I have never cared for Madonna as an artist but I will give her credit for her charity work. She does worlds more than others. I still believe that she could have found a better way to help other than taking a child away from his father.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 07:26 PM

No problem. I also wonder at the wisdom of her adopting a child who has a living parent. Time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 08:19 PM

If indeed the mother died of AIDS, perhaps the father has it also..it would not be that unlikely, in which case it might be best all around this way. It is sad to part a child from either parent. Sometimes the world can be so awful that it is better than the alternatives. Who was it?//Stalin, who said 1 child dying is a tragedy; 20 million is a statistic. She has brought one child into the world's eyes, like Angelina Jolie and others have done, and there will be a ripple effect. mg

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 02:24 AM

Hi Becca
It may be as you said "I guess maybe it's either my generation or my area", it could be the same with me, I am a bit older & I live in an area where (southern New Hampshire) where we give cows credit for the area education systems. Maybe in part too that I'm always kept up by family discussions. My sister-in-law is Paula Donovan (you can google her) so the family hear's 1st hand of the worst of what happens over there in Africa & far more than any news media will try to sell, because the situation is so horrid so it could also be a case of what's relative too. Hopefully we'll be seeing positive changes soon in the UN on who gets to lead & create new AIDS/HIV policly & who's gonna be handling it.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 05:16 AM

I also wonder at the wisdom of her adopting a child who has a living parent. Time will tell.

This is only speculation but perhaps it was not wisdom but just seeing a little boy and being told the child did have a living parent who for all intents and purposes he may as well not have had?

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 08:31 AM

Oprrahs question,

Were you hurt?

Not hurt, more disappointed. (and that's meant to be reassuring?)

Straight away the focus is on MADONNA

And then Madonna goes on to imply that if you disagree with her adopting the kid then it follows that you don't care about dying african children with aids.

It's all the media's fault, thoughh apparently she iis aware that they have been known to concentrate on gossip outrage and hype.

Duh! I wouldn't have inagined she was aware of that - would you?

Come on - the mother teresa act doesn't wash. Lie's are never isolated, they travel in mutually supportive groups.

I see a smokescreen and the disappointment of a stunt gone wrong.

She implies that she never gave the papers a thought - uh huh - and the pope is a member of Jihad and bears use portaloos!

Check here , thoughh therre isn't really enough info to make thhis debate any more interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 08:34 AM

actually,

it might be more worthwhile clicking here

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 04:15 PM

Sometimes I'm glad my sound card is screwed....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:20 PM

Oh for heavens sake it is not a stunt. There are easier ways to pull off a stunt than having an ill baby in your already hectic life, from a totally different culture etc. This will do a tremendous amount for getting other children adopted, which in their dire circumstances is better than them picking food out of garbage heaps, as they do in other countries...4,000 children will have a new orphanage. Lots of people will contribute however they can, whether through adoption, money, whatever. She means well, has done this clumsily, but a life has been saved and many more will be as result of her actions, done out of whatever motivations she has. mg

Subject: RE: BS: A little Malawi boy and Madonna
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 09:36 AM

how can he be an orphan if he has a father