Mobile Phone Masts

Subject: Mobile Phone Masts
From: terrier
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 07:50 PM

I've just searched for a discussion on this emotive subject, but nothing came up on Mudcat.
I was just wandering what you people thought about the placing of these structures in populated areas.
At the moment we are locked in battle with our local council because they have passed one to be build right in the middle of our village.
If anyone has any tech info or dealings with such a structure, or in fact any comments, all would be welcome.
This is a UK post (North Wales Borders)But it would be interesting to me to have comments from other countries.
Thanx in advance   Terrier

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Grab
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 08:02 PM

BS section...?

Re placing them in populated areas, they'd be no damn use at all if they only put them where no-one ever went, now would they? :-) If it's an eyesore then I can understand the worry. But otherwise only non-mobile-phone owners have any right to object. And they can do a good job of concealing them now if they have to.

Re tech info, studies so far say there's no effects from mobile phones near you, or from masts. Or to be more accurate, less than a fraction of a percent of the population could experience ill-effects, because they can't see any in the samples.

Graham.

PS. One of the great recent ironies is that 80-90% of kids have mobiles, but parents will happily form up vigilante groups and man the barricades to prevent phone masts being put up anywhere near a school. A school with maybe 500-1000 phones. Go figure...

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:06 PM

A cell phone antenna was placed on the grounds of Mt. Vernon. It's disguised as a tall pine tree. Other masts are in other areas, disguised as necessary.

If it's an eyesore, make 'em camouflage it.

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:28 PM

I've noticed that vultures are fond of roosting on the cell towers around here. Perhaps one could take advantage of that natural inclination. Just rig up a pulley system to hoist roadkill to the top of the tower and let the carrion birds have at it. Instead of an eyesore, the tower would become an ecotourism attraction.

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: NH Dave
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 11:08 PM

Here in the US many churches are offering their steeples or belfries as possible antenna sites. As long as it doesn't show from the street, or light up the minister's hearing aid or pager when in use, who's to mind?

Dave

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Paul Burke
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 03:31 AM

Look up "inverse square law", and calculate how near you have to be to a phone mast to get the same radio intensity as the phone placed 1cm from your brain. And observe that the further you are from a mast, the higher the transmitter power on your phone has to be.

Masts are ugly, as are telegraph poles, electricity pylons, road signs and road lights.

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 04:39 AM

Rapaire says they have towers disguised as pine trees in his area. Many in our area look more like Douglas firs - and very few Doug firs grow here naturally. The predominant tree is the Ponderosa Pine. But the towers don't really look half bad, and it's fun to try to find them.

I do volunteer work at the maintenance man at a women's center in a hundred-year-old firehouse in Sacramento. We have four poles, four engine bays, and a five-story hose drying tower. We rent the tower out to Sprint telecommunications for a cell phone tower for a thousand bucks a month. That pays our mortgage, but we sometimes wonder if it's worth all the hassle. Sprint has not been a wonderful tenant - not horrible, but not a real asset to have, either.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Crystal
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 05:01 AM

Camoflaged masts are a common site around Stirling in Scotland. It adds a bit of amusment to a long journey trying to spot them!

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 07:00 AM

As a possible aid to searching, in my area they usually just call them "microwave towers" or less frequently "cell phone antennas." As with any search, the more variants you use for search terms, the more junk you get.

I haven't heard of any locally decorated to fit into the scenery, but have run into quite a number of web images of "camo" masts in other parts of the US. At least one place in CA has one disguised as a palm tree, although the height is quite a bit above the average for trees of that sort. (It sticks out a bit in the web pics I've run into.)

In more densely populated areas, one can substitute a few more antennas at lower elevations for a smaller number of tall ones, so it's not too hard to attach to existing structures, but the longer distances and lower population densities in some parts of the US often call for 300 foot towers, and we don't have any trees in my area more than about 80 feet tall, with average treetops closer to 50 or 60 feet. It's almost as hard to get the FAA to agree to a new "flight obstruction" as to get the pitchforks out of the hands of the populace when someone talks about a new one here.

John

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 07:07 AM

I think Mobile Phone Masts are a terrible idea. I mean, the stationary ones are bad enough!

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: GUEST,kb
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 09:04 AM

for UK you can find locations of masts near you using this site :
http://www.sitefinder.radio.gov.uk/

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 10:02 AM

There was a highly emotional discussion in Germany about the danger (to health) of these masts for some years about a decade ago.

I watch since long a familiar pattern when a new technology comes along. Its dangers are grossly overrated as long as only a few people (the rich!) own this technology and as long as people feel it is forced upon them without their consent (introduction of computers on the workplace, for instance). After some years (a decade or so), nearly everyone owns one (a computer, a mobile phone,...) and then suddenly the discussion about dangers dies so completely that one can only wonder if these are still the same people who once have worried about this technology.

If only others own it, it is potentially dangerous, if I own it, its dangers are neglegible.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Flash Company
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 11:11 AM

How interesting and opportune! I arrived home at lunch time today to find a copy of a letter through my door inviting me to join the writer in protest about the sitimg of a mobile 'phone mast. I had a look on the Council web site at the intended location and came to the conclusion that it was too far from me to have any effect.
I then checked with a friend who lives virtually alongside the site, and her opinion was that it would stop the site being used for fly tipping if a fence was put round it, and in that event, she was all for it.
I had almost decided to take no action, and , thanks to the above posts, I will definitely not!

FC

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: terrier
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 04:29 PM

Sorry about starting this topic in the upper house, I meant for it to be 'down below' but forgot to tick the box.
Thanks for all the replies. I expected a mixed bag of comments but it seems everyone so far is quite happy to let the phone companies place these structures as and when they want with no regard for local residents. I've just been reading the Orange blurb on the web that tells me how safe their masts are, everything on the site works ok until you get to the page about 'power output' from the masts,then,surprise,that page doesn't open.It must be my PC and to think, computers in the workplace are recognised as one of the main causes of stress a t work.
I've spent a long time looking at case studies on the net about peoples reaction to finding out that they will be from now on living with a 'phone mast (or whatever you want to call it). It seems that their main argument is that there is no consultation prior to the installation. In nearly every case, it is done behind their backs so they have no say in the matter. The governments 'Best Code Of Practice' goes out with the trash.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti new technology and I have to use a cell phone every day for work, but if the technology is so poor that the aerials have to be placed within a few metres of peoples bedroom windows, as is happening more and more, and the companies who build them seem to need stealth and secrecy to do it, then something is very wrong here.
In out of town locations, there should be no need to place these structures within a few metres of dwellings and in main towns and cities,as has been said,there are plenty of church steeples and high buildings to put them on.
FT, you've got me worried about these masts on the move, are they disguised as PALMS? Remember the Triffids.
OK, I'll shut up.    Thanks again T.

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Hawker
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 07:28 PM

There is some interesting stuff at www.radiationresearch.org which you may wish to take into consideration.
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Keef
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 05:23 AM

Television transmitters rated in Megawatts have been sited in populated areas for many decades. Frequencies used are similar to those used by cell phones.
Nobody has ever lobbied to have those towers moved/closed down and I don't think there have been any reports of associated health problems.
There again none of us could live without our television ...right??

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: terrier
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 06:28 AM

There again none of us could live without our television ...right??

WRONG ! I don't have a TV and a lot of my musician friends are TV'less

and I've yet to see a TV transmitter mast placed anywhere as near to populis as phone masts. This is my arguement, as cell phones get more popular, the transmitters get closer. Has anyone got one in their living room yet? :(

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 08:31 AM

Look, they haven't affecaffecaffected me yet...

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 09:03 AM

Look, terrier, they are never going to be so close that they are worse than the output of the phone itself. You hold the phone next to your head, typically about 1cm from the brain. The maximum output of the phone is about 1W in a poor coverage area, about 20mW typically. So if the mast is 15m high, and you are right next to it, it would need to output 45kW to equal the field strength due to the typical handset, and 2.25MW to equal the worst case. The actual power is typically 1kW maximum, and is usually less than this.

Concentrate on the ugly, and the planning rules that let them plonk them almost anywhere without consultation.

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: terrier
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 09:11 AM

***Concentrate on the ugly, and the planning rules that let them plonk them almost anywhere without consultation***

That's exactly what I'm trytrytrytrying to do.

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 09:15 AM

Up in Whiteshill, Stroud, the National Trust have a wood they maintain. Buried in the trees is a slender latticework phonemast painted brown and you hardly notice it below the line of the trees. Not a hundred yards away is an electricity substation. They have no responsibility or comeback on whatever they do within the confines of this miniscule plot. But sticking up from it is a phonemast that pays no lips service to sensibilities. I ain't painted any colour and consequentially you can see it from a long way off.

But it is on top of a hill and not near houses. And that wasn't for any sensibilities to residents.

The annoying thing is they can buy phonemasts that are made to look like trees - not 100% but at least a good attempt. And they make them in Quedgely not 100 yards from the border with Stroud.

Fight for that option if it looks like you might loose. The arrogant phone companies don't offer - you have to bludgeon them. Get the local/parish council to be aware. Whatever the companies say - the cost is nothing compared to their profits.

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: JennyO
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 08:26 AM

FT, you've got me worried about these masts on the move, are they disguised as PALMS? Remember the Triffids.

Actually, I'm thinking ENTS!

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 08:30 AM

ENTirely Terrifying...

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: terrier
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 11:22 AM

You'd end up with an ENTire forest of 'em

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Oct 06 - 07:54 PM

Triffic Idea!

Subject: RE: Mobile Phone Masts
From: Paul Burke
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 06:50 AM

It's not the masts you should worry about, it's the phones! If Dracula sucks blood, what does a sperm count do?