BS: Cleaning a hip flask

Subject: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 02:57 AM

I suppose a good number of Mudcatters have received hip flasks as gifts from Micca - he's given me two over the years. I guess he really wants to lead me astray.

Well, I made good use of mine over the last weekend. This evening, I rinsed it out, and then decided to use a Q-tip to check the inside for cleanliness. The Q-tip cam out brown, so I think I have a problem. Any ideas on how to clean a flask? Googling for "hip flask" cleaning didn't turn up any conclusively wonderful solutions.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: skipy
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 03:35 AM

Crush a Steredent tablet, place in flask, pour small ammount of warm water in, shake with thumb on top,repeat as reqd.
DO NOT put top on! Do this over sink or outside, it foams A LOT.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 03:39 AM

1) What material is the flask made from?

2) What has your flask contained? (WC Fields was partial to pineapple juice in his flask.)

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Megan L
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:10 AM

These are good without being to rough joe

www.lakelandlimited.co.uk/product.aspx/solutions/clean!8949

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 05:08 AM

To wash:
   Fill 1/3 full with single malt scotch whisky.
   Cover and swish.
   Drink whisky being careful not to spill any.
   Rinse thouroughly following above instructions.
   If not cleaned to satisfaction repeat process.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 05:22 AM

The lesson to be learned here is one I was told by the midwife when Limpit was spawned... never stick a Qtip into an orifice you can't get your elbow into.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: GUEST,obie
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 05:31 AM

Them magic balls sure look like BBs. High priced ones though.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 05:34 AM

That link doesn't work Meg.
Go to the Lakeland and look for (wait for it!) Magic Balls ;)
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 05:51 AM

An explosive charge would clean it nicely. Works for me!

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 06:04 AM

What does hip flask andy say?

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 07:51 AM

I think the unnamed one has the right answer. If you made good use of the flask at the weekend you've probably flushed away and drunk anything significant, and it's a bit late to worry about that now.

Basically, out of sight out of mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 09:05 AM

That's Polident in the US. It'll take old, old stains out of coffee cups. But be careful, because as Peace said, the material can affect the cleaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: EBarnacle
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 10:53 AM

I am a great believer in not putting anything in food containers I would not put in me. Vinegar is a good cleaning agent for pewter and crockery flasks. On the other hand, leaving the insides alone adds character to the contents which follow what has been previously drunk.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:00 AM

How about Babies sterilising fluid diluted of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:00 AM

Coke and you can still use it fer Rum after cleaning LOL ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:07 AM

I am a great believer in not putting anything in food containers I would not put in me

That'd surely rule out coke.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:09 AM

One of the best substances used for sterilising is alcohol. If you use it for spirits it will not harbour germs.
Any discolourations are irrelevant as far as it being bacterially clean. If bacterially clean, it is fit to drink.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: NH Dave
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:16 AM

I'd try some sharp gravel, like they sell for fish tanks, and a half a flask of water. Put the gravel and water into the flask, cap the flask and shake vigorously. Drain the water out and repeat until the water comes clear. Rinse the gravel out of the flask.

All the best,

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:18 AM

bicarbonate of soda works well for vacumn flasks and is cheaper than the commercial cleaners

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Megan L
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:21 AM

I might hae kent McKenzie wid be there tae correct ma wee foxes pass :p whit wid we dae withoot him

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:12 PM

Joe - Maggie and I have a number of flasks but we don't worry too much about keeping the insides clean. Anything that's used to containing alcohol should be fine. I think the most important thing to clean is the top and the screw thread, as it's very frustrating trying to open one that's got gunged up. But I'm happy with skipy's solution - stuff for cleaning false teeth should be fine. And Sterident is also 'from Hull' - a product of local firm Reckitts! Will remove tannin stains from teacups and teapots as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: skipy
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:13 PM

I am very particular about what I drink out of and very cafeful about what I drink.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: GUEST,...
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:42 PM

Being bacterially clean isn't the only requirement, to be fit to drink - pewter, unless modern, could impart lead into the contents.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:44 PM

Best way to clean it is to use it often and refill it often. It will season itself! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 01:07 PM

Whether a "chemical" treatment like the Steredent/Polident will work depends somewhat on what the flask material is and on what the gunk is that wants removing. It's probably safe enough to try.

A minor disadvantage of the acquarium gravel is that it tends to have sharp corners. Scratches produced by using it could slightly increase the rate at which new gunk accumulates.

An "old maid's method" is to put rice (uncooked) in, with sufficient liquid to let it slosh, and then shake. You can continue to use the same rice while draining off the liquid and replenishing. When the liquid that you decant off is clear, you probably have removed about as much as you're going to get.

This is a "gentle" abrasive, so it takes a lot of shaking for complete cleaning. With a proper balance of rice and liquid a nice "shaker" sound can be produced, so you could "lend" it to a kid at a festival and tell them it's an "instrument." If the sound is even slightly annoying, the kid will probably do a fairly thorough job by the time you recover it a the end of the fest - which is far more than you yourself are likely to have the patience for.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:00 PM

OK. I was considering this last night while scratching my--well, I was giving it deep thought. I think Joe should consider filling the flask with salt water and allowing algae to form on the walls of the flask. Then introduce algae eaters. When they have accomplished their mission, put a pirhanna in the flask. When it has eaten the algae eaters, throw the flask into a tank containing an anaconda. In an attempt to get at the remaining fish, the anaconda will likely swallow the flask. Obtain a shotgun from a friend and shoot the snake. Gut the snake and retrieve the flask. Rinse with a 20% solution of H2SO4. Rinse with water. Now, here's the hard part. Place the whole flask into a cryogenic solution and leave for about two hours. Take the flask out and allow it to thaw. When it arrives at room temperature, fill it with Jello. Let the Jello set. Remove the Jello with a shopvac, and rinse with a solution of acetic acid (5%). Rince three time with sterile water and fill with your favourite tipple. I am pretty sure that method would work quite well.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:09 PM

Bruce, that solution sounds like it comes from Kendall Morse.
...you should consider that a supreme compliment.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:13 PM

Most kind of you, sir. Thank you..

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 04:55 PM

It sounds ok...except for the jello. I never could make decent jello.

(can I substitute a Burmese Rock Python for the Anaconda? All my Anacondas have been loaned out to a documentary film maker...something about whether it is really possible to swallow a human)

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 05:01 PM

Bruce ..... a little warning when you are going to do that, please...... I am a man in my 50's ........ bladder control is an issue .......... be back in a minute, got to change skivvies............

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 10:32 PM

Sems that modern modern cheap hip flasks I have seen are made out of Stainless Steel - probably not recommended to have acids too close for too long.

Be careful with rice inside - it will absorb water, even if cold (with enough time) - you may end up having to ask Peace again...

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 03:50 AM

Do you know what a bugger it is trying to get that last grain of rice out......?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Micca
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 08:45 AM

If the staining is due to Tannin (WHY did you put Tea in yer hip-flask?) a mild acidic solution of Citric acid/Vinegar/Coke will do a good job, personally I avoid the vinegar route as the smell spoils the Bouquet of Single Malts, STROH Overproof Rum seems very effective, but tends to strew bodies about everywhere if you pass it round, as nothing seems to be able to survive it, are must be taken with Pewter good rinsing is ESSENTIAL, even Modern Pewter as the replacement of the lead in it is often Antimony!! Stainless steel Hip Flasks are good, but as a general rule do not keep mixed drinks containing acidic components ( Rum/Coke, Pineapple juice, Pina Colada etc) in a flask any longer than you have to, but clean thoroughly after use. A Good trick is after using the cleaning method of choice isto fill with clean water and leave to stand for several hours or overnight and repeat as necessary

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 01:45 PM

We never did ask what caused the stain in the first place.
Joe, how long do you let you flask stand filled before draining the contents? As mentioned, if it is pewter, you risk raising your lead or antimony level. Same reasoning as not letting fluids sit too long in lead crystal decanters.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 01:49 PM

Well, IMO, getting that last grain of rice out would be infinitely easier than getting a stain off the inside where no one can see it anyway. However, removing that last grain of rice would involve some genetic engineering.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 02:21 PM

OK, here goes. Work with me on this if you would be so kind.

"Hybrid breakdown, which is one of the reproductive barriers in cultivated rice, is found in the progeny of cross between Indica and Japonica rice varieties. The genetic basis of this phenomenon can be elucidated by assuming a set of two complementary loci as postulated by Oka (1957). Under this postulate, the parental genotypes would be A1 A1a2a2 and a1a1A2A2, respectively, and segregants with one or zero dominant gene, such as A1A1a2a2, a1a1A2A2, and a1a1a2a2, would express the hybrid weakness. Here we report the chromosome location of novel genes controlling hybrid breakdown in Asian cultivated rice using DNA markers."

There is the answer. Whoever thought of using rice to clean the insides of the hip flask is an unheralded genius. The only remaining problem is ensuring that no rice is left in the flask after the rice has been used as the abrasive to clean the flask's interior. The above quote section is from an article written by S. FUKUOKA1, M. C. V. NEWINGHAM2, M. ISHTIAQ3, T. NAGAMINE4, M. KAWASE1 and K. OKUNO1 and published in   Vol. 22쳌@ ( RGN OL-1:쳌@ Rice Genetics Newsletter On Line vol. 1).

For those of you who understand as little as I do about scientific stuff, I will transliterate the quotation.   

Hybrid breakdown [that which happens to newer automobiles due to lack of maintenance and care], which is one of the reproductive barriers [condoms] in cultivated rice [rice with a good education], is found in the progeny [offspring, children] of cross between Indica and Japonica rice varieties. The genetic basis of this phenomenon [it is a single thing as opposed to a multiple of things because if there had been more than one it would have been spelt--or spelled if you are North American--phenomena (which is a Latin word anyway)] can be elucidated [I think this is something that can happen to teenagers on a first date but is generally discouraged by their respective parents, they being the PROGENY of them] by assuming a set of two complementary loci [these are tennis terms, although I have yet to encounter the word 'love' which was so named because it is from the French for egg--and there we are with genetics again] as postulated [this is a word used by people who meant to say 'educatedly guessed at') by Oka (1957). Under this postulate, the parental genotypes [the paternity issue is a big one in genetics as rightly it should be, because when things are cross bred just for the heck if it, you never really know what you'll get. For example, see this: this. A potato/corn cross that went wrong.] would be A1 A1a2a2 and a1a1A2A2, respectively, and segregants with one or zero dominant gene, such as A1A1a2a2, a1a1A2A2, and a1a1a2a2, would express the hybrid weakness [that last bit is the proof, which brings us full circle to the stuff that Joe had in the flask]. Here we report the chromosome location of novel genes [these are the SPECIFIC genes that people like Hemingway, Bronet, Salinger, Atwood, Twain and Heinlein carried] controlling hybrid breakdown in Asian cultivated rice using DNA markers [DNA markers are basically IOUs held by the bookies who have taken bets that Elvis was or wasn't cloned]."

That's about as clear as I can make it.

PS I forgot to mention: When the rice has broken down, a process I POSTULATE will occur within weeks, rinse with boiling water and serve. This will contribute to a lovely, delicate sushi dish, rendering a delicate rice, delicious to the palate yet hinting of far-off exotic places where there are no Burger Kings.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Emma B
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 02:50 PM

ROFL - I'll never look at my hip flask in quite the same way again!

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 02:55 PM

Micca, I would never put tea in my precious hip flask. My usual libation is brandy, which I drink fairly quickly and then rinse the flask with water. I thought the brown residue was something you left me. Lord knows what that stuff is that you bring in flasks...
love,
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Gervase
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 05:08 PM

Listen to Micca - given the odd things he's put into flasks over the years, I can't think of anyone better-qualified to advise on cleaning 'em!
I'd echo his caution about acids and pewter, though - it's not a good idea even on 'lead-free' pewter.
Rum or sloe gin, and plenty of it, is what I'd recommend.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 05:36 PM

Isn't the juice of the sloes acidic? I'm pretty sure that's what made the inside of my flask all yucky.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 08:07 PM

Peace,

"When the rice has broken down, a process I POSTULATE will occur within weeks,"

You mean, one should add the resultant saki ... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 08:15 PM

The "Magic Balls" just look like copper ball bearings. I think the rice idea is best. The brown much is likely stuff that seeped into the randy during the aging process and prolly can't hurt you much. Put in some rice, swish around with cool water (too warm and the rice might cook!), rinse well, then follow with a good rinse of boiling water. I'd advise against citric acid, it could react with the metal on the inside of the flask

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 08:50 PM

"The brown much is likely stuff that seeped into the randy during the aging process"

Hmmm... so my "randy" has been "aged", that's what the problem is!

{:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 12:16 AM

When I mentioned the use of rice with sufficient liquid to let it slosh apparently a number of overachievers assumed that meant "pack it in with a hammer." It does lend credence and support to the frequent observations about the culteral, functional, and material (in)competence of a few.

If the flask is full it won't slosh. If the last grain sticks, put a few more fresh grains back in, fill with a liberal amount of liquid (perhaps half full) and shake to dislodge and loosen all the grains, and then pour quickly.

This method is NOT RECOMMENDED for the last grain of rice stuck in your kid's nose, or even in an ear, no matter how appropriate the vigorous shaking might seem; but is quite adequate when rice is used as a loose abrasive in a closed container.

The methods involving large snakes and jello might me considered more appropriate for the kid with rice stuck where it shouldn't be; but I'll leave that decision to those stuck with ministering parental love and care to the little monsters.

The "rice treatment" has been recommend by the manufacturers of glass thermal (e.g. Thermos®) bottles, but in truth it takes a horribly prolonged amount of vigorous shaking to have much affect on any significant stain. It's a very gentle abrasive. I usually give up and use a stiff brush (twisted wire with bristles) that I can bend to reach the corners; but that depends somewhat on the flask material.

(Why is it that people who post questions always omit the critical information, and then refuse to answer questions about it? This "Joe Offer" is obviously just trolling. He should put it back in and zip up.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 03:00 PM

May I be the first to suggest flask liners? Find out what material the flask is made from and then line it with that material. When one has done tipple-ing, remove the flask liner and discard it. The answer is so obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 03:06 PM

. . . along the lines of this, but a tad smaller . . . .


However, lest I seen oblivious to the situation, may I be so bold as to ask: "Why did you not simply take a fifth and put it in a paper bag?"

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 03:21 PM

Can't talk about it, huh? Taking the fifth I mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 06:45 PM

In Australia The Fifth Amendment to The Aussie Constitution gave citizenship to the Indigenous Peoples.

It's funny, but true, that one lecturer at USQ seemed to be confused between the US and Aussie Constitutions...

:-)

I'm not making this up, you know...

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 07:39 PM

So how do I push out the sides of a pewter hip flask that's gone all concave on me?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 08:02 PM

Blow it up!

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 08:32 PM

Liz -

A more or less traditional high school demonstration, usually in a physics class, consists of filling a gallon glass jug to the brim with water and inserting a cork loosely on top of the water (without adding any air). When you whack the cork with a hammer, the pressure rises very rapidly to high levels and knocks the bottom of the jug out. (Into the lab sink if the instructor is even marginally competent.)

The same principle could be used to "expand" the sides of your flask, although a small hammer and fairly gentle tapping, increasing in vigor as needed, to progressively inflate the flask should be effective, provided that it's just fairly uniformly "squashed" and isn't badly wrinkled.

A modification of the technique would be to pack the flask loosely with fine sand, and use a "punch" of some sort with the hammer to pound on the sand (through the top of the flask). The sand will compress near the top surface where you whack it (not too aggressively), but will "bind together" so that it lessens the pressure transmitted to lower levels of the sand. This technique takes a bit of practice, but can be applied to fairly "gently" ironing out localized deformations of thin/fragile shell-like objects.

Neither of these methods is likely to work if the flask is "creased," but either can push out reasonably smooth squashed in spots.

For more serious "dents" or "creases" go to the nearest appropriate barroom; find a body shop worker; trade a few drinks; get him/her started bragging about skills; and issue the challenge. Use your own judgement about injecting issues of "little things" prior to revealing the nature of the challenge.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 08:41 PM

John always says it more verbosely than I do!


{:P

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 09:17 PM

Too bad I can't use pictures and diagrams here. Ya' don't know what y'er missin'.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 09:38 PM

Thanks for the advice re expanding a flask as I have the same problem. I have thought that warming the metal of the flask, gently, with a blow torch at the same time might help. Morticia might like to get together with me and we have a hip-flask expanding workshop!

At the risk of exciting a few agile minds, could someone please inform me of any case studies of damage to a person having been caused by lead leaching from pewter into food, that food then being consumed.
I am aware of mercury and other heavy metal poisoning in the workplace, usually through the long-term effects of industrial quantities of hot metal vapours, but I am interested in any effects of casual or day-to-day consumption.
I know that there have been various edicts from the "health and safety" police but so far I have not found them to be backed up by evidential proof. None of my medical books nor my collection of medical articles contain anything of help.
To look at the potential problem from the point of view of "normal use", the first thing that happens to a metal on exposure to the air is oxidation. This lead oxide is inert, although, I admit, it will still contain a microscopically small number of lead atoms. Unless a food substance is in contact with the oxide for a long time breakdown of this oxide is very slow. It is unlikely to occur in the short time food passes from container to mouth.
It seems to me that there is more of an industry being created by the merchants of doom than there is an actual problem.

Has anyone out there actually got any evidence?

Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Rowan
Date: 12 Nov 06 - 10:45 PM

G'day Colyn,
I suspect most of the case studies will be buried in obscure journals but there are some celebrated post-facto interpretations with lead as the culprit. The tins of meat taken by Franklin on his search for the North West Passage were, at the time (1840s-50s), 'state of the art' food-preservation. Instead of steel sheet with a thin layer of tin ("Tin-plate") and crimped seams, Franklin's tins were sealed with solder, which contained lead.

It's only recently that bodies positively identifiable as part of the expedition have been found and examined archaeologically. Postmortems on them have revealed symptoms consistent with those of lead poisoning and the reasonable inference is that they suffered from lead poisoning.

I forget where you'd find the earliest references to Roman plumbing made from lead piping (Latin "plumbum" = English "lead", leading to "plumber" and "plumbing the depths" etc) as a cause for the decline of the Roman Empire but I suspect they'd mostly be fanciful reconstructions to support one's prejudices. The effects of lead intake have been known for long enough to convince potters to avoid lead glazes on the insides of casserole dishes and other containers of foods. It's of more concern where those containers involve acidic fluids (tomatoes) and high temperatures and/or long periods of storage.

Table wines may have some acidity and, if stored in Waterford crystal decanters for long periods, may leach some lead out of the glass. Where metal goblets have dregs left in them overnight before washing up, the acidity gradually eats into the surface of the metal, but only a sad case would consume such dregs left overnight.

Frankly, I think Joe's just stirring the possum. My stainless steel vacuum flasks have only ever been used for coffee and have accumulated a similar brown residue. Because I preheat them with boiling water (which doesn't remove the residue but certainly renders it innocuous) I don't give the residue a second thought. Against the unlikely chance I'll ever see residue (that I can't taste) in a hip flask, I reckon a few blasts of boiling water will remove all causes for doubt and dismay.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 03:43 AM

Bonecrusher -

Attempting to heat the flasks for re-forming probably is not a very useful idea. Your flasks, unless they're a good "stainless steel" quite probably are plated, even if they don't look like it; and anything beyond the mildest bit of heat may loosen the plating, especially in areas where it's been bent. Any heating below a "metallurgically significant" transition in metal grain structure is unlikely to affect how easily the metal is bent, and heating to the point of annealing may make the flask "flimsy" after you've finished. Been there. Done that. Advise not.

Even with a CRES (corrosion resistant steel - loosely called "stainless") heating is not a particularly good idea. All common CRES contains free iron, and would rust, usually by local pitting, if not "passivated." Passivation leaches all the free iron from a thin layer of the surface, so that it can't pass oxides into the internals where gross reactions can occur. Excessive heating, beyond temperatures occuring in ordinary use, can "break the passivation layer" and can cause your stainless to be "not stainless any more." Some CRES materials resist this effect to higher temperatures, but those materials are unlikely to have been used for a flask.

The same effect is sometimes seen if mild steel articles, or even worse cast iron ones, run through a dishwasher with stainless steel ones. Very tiny amounts of free iron from the mild steel/cast iron articles, deposited on the surface of the CRES items, can result in significant pitting of the CRES in short order, since they provide an accretion site from which individual oxide atoms can "tunnel" into the body of the material where free iron is present.

Cold forming for the removal of reasonable dents should be sufficient, and the flask will be a lot easier to handle at room temperature.

Probably the most easily accessible studies on lead effects are the numerous ones on the effects of lead paints on playground equipment, and/or similar paints that were so commonly used on housing, where they have reached deteriorated (flaking) conditions where "slum kids" played. The effects of lead as a cumulative poison, and the resulting damage especially to nerve systems and brain function are very well documented. The effect is especially serious while the nervous system is developing, so lead is especially dangerous for children; but adults are not immune to it.

Lead oxides are not inert in the same way as the oxide layers formed on many other materials. The lead contained in these oxides is quite readily leached into fluids that contact it, abeit in tiny amounts. Once in the body, however, lead is not removed by normal body functions in the same was as other toxins, so repeated and prolonged exposure can cause it to accumulate.

The only existing treatments for lead and most other heavy metal ingestion attempt to "fix" the toxins in place in the body to partially render them less damaging. (Some treatments do claim to be able to reduce the amounts present, but they're difficult and marginally effective.) It is thus fairly safe to say that for the typical heavy metal victim "There is NO EFFECTIVE METHOD for ever removing them.:

The amounts you will ingest from using your fine crystal on "special occasions" is probably not significant; and most authoritives are "permissive" with respect to such limited use. All credible sources recommend against storing liquids in such containers for more than brief periods. Daily or other frequent use of the same crystal over a long period will result in the accumulation of sufficent lead to be damaging because it accumulates and cannot be removed.

For some old pewter, it takes a relatively short period of regular use to get enough for toxic effects to be visible. Containers with (lead) solder joints can leach surprisingly large amounts into liquids quite rapidly.

The amounts of lead, and of other heavy metals, that usually must be ingested to produce a particular symptom are quite well documented in medical (and archaeological) literature, although I don't offhand know of a specific single summary that would be helpful to you. The rates of leaching of lead from articles like crystal, plumbing, solder, batteries, etc., into various solvents/fluids, are similarly available.

You should believe that IT IS NOT A FAIRY TALE.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 11:33 AM

Does this work for the human pecker? (A friend wants to know.)

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Rowan
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 05:07 PM

JiK has put the first part of my posting into proper perspective but, if you want to check out some of the literature for yourself, an easy place to start would be the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for any product, containing lead componds, you can buy at a hardware store. I imagine similar rules apply in the US and the EEC as in Australia, where the manufacturer is obliged to provide the ultimate user/customer with the MSDS for any product they supply. Full MSDS (often 12 or more pages, rather than short-form ones) will contain references to medical effects and engineeering controls.

Distributors of lab chemicals (Merck, Sigma etc) also produce annual catalogues with similar references cited.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Peace
Date: 13 Nov 06 - 05:20 PM

Lead poisoning is cumulative. It is bad news to have that stuff in your body.

Subject: RE: BS: Cleaning a hip flask
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 11:21 PM

Thanks to Rowan, John and Peace for their comments.
As a medical person (an Osteopath) I am aware that heavy metal poisoning is cumulative, hence the ban on lead in paints, cadmium in batteries etc.
However, as you are probably all aware, there has been so much hype from our political masters about things they describe as "bad for us", which they then ban after using scare stories designed to totally demoralise the ignorant.
What they fail to appreciate is that the small quantities in use, or the way in which the substance is used, actually has only a marginal effect on just a few persons. The many then have to suffer inconvenience for a few, who will, anyway, have learned the deleterious effects as part of their job training.
Typically, over the last few years a few medical persons have been jumping up and down about the high levels of salt and sugar used as preservatives. So, sugar and salt have been reduced and now chemicals are being used in their stead. Good news for the shareholders of the chemical suppliers, but the taste of the product is changed and we now have to "store opened jars in the refridgerator".
For thousands of years sugar and salt have been used, a long time before 'fridges were invented. I cannot recall ever having to put jars of jam or pickle in cold storage when I was a child. In fact, the jams and pickles I make for myself, using traditional methods, are never stored in a 'fridge and live a normal life until fully consumed, often after several months. BTW the home-made ones taste a darned sight better than the shop-bought with ersatz sweeteners!

Anyway, thank you all for your interest and your help.

Colyn.